Montage's List of Stage Bans!

[Rhubarbo]

I personally think all walk-off stages should be banned un-less it's only a portion of a moving stage (Battle Ship Halberd). So, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Distant Plantet, Bridge of Eldin, and pretty much all walk-offs should be banned.

 

[kenkowtow]

If you happen to have the time/patience do you think you can add what stages are open for Random Select and what stages are Counter-Picks?


And if you've got a lot of time, do you think you can add reasons (for the CPs)?

 

[Pieman0920]

I think the ban list here is to focused on that one pottentially unfair tactic, and also blowing some tactis way out of proportions. Like Pokemon Stadium for instance. I don't think it will be that easy to trap someone, and even then, it's only random that the stage will turn to ground, and it's only for a little bit. Same goes for PS2, though those reasons don't make much sense....because it's a moveing banana that can't be dodged? And the flying part of the stage grants reduced gravity to everyone/is random/temporary.

 

[xmenotux]

I like where you were going with this, but you lost me when you insulted the man. Its just his opinion people. And now for my opinion,although as I 've read it will just get ignored because of my post count,but whatever.

I get why people want to ban stages, I really do. You want the tourney scene to be all about skill,I get that. Some levels just give certain players more advantages than others, so they should get the axe. Ok, again, sounds great. For example, New Pork City should be banned because it gives projectile users a clear adavantage. Fine, but that seems a bit unfair that you don't want Link running around pelting you with his bombs and arrows from a distance, yet you have no problem fighting him on a small stage like Yoshi's Island, especially if your using a CQC character like Falco/fox(which takes away one of his key game concepts ;range). it just seems a bit biased, no offense.

My point is, why would it be ok to ban Hyrule?New Pork, where range characters can dominate,yet if I wanted a smaller stage banned because it gavie the Bowser advantage, I'd jsut be talking crazy. I don't know, its like competitive players just don't make sense to me. On one hand, you claim its to help "balance " the game, yet you want to remove balances that are already in place to help some characters.

Please, save the flaming,because it'll just make you look like an a**.

At the risk of being flamed, I applaud this post. I have played tournaments, and I've even played in tournaments with people from these forums, and it seems to me a) banning large stages is unfair unless you also ban small stages because like it or not some characters do have an advantage in smaller stages while the fast characters have the advantages in large stages and b) you can implement rules for fighting on Hyrule Temple such as no default win for running out of time, or a stall time limit. Heck, rules are made up for other stages and situations so why not large stages? Large stages add a whole new level of strategy which just isn't in the smaller stages.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

I think the ban list here is to focused on that one pottentially unfair tactic, and also blowing some tactis way out of proportions. Like Pokemon Stadium for instance. I don't think it will be that easy to trap someone, and even then, it's only random that the stage will turn to ground, and it's only for a little bit. Same goes for PS2, though those reasons don't make much sense....because it's a moveing banana that can't be dodged? And the flying part of the stage grants reduced gravity to everyone/is random/temporary.

An unfair tactic that apparently doesn't work all the time. I'm hearing reports from other people that level 3 CPUs can escape OMG PIKACHU INFINITE WALL COMBO. So it goes.

 

[dmbrandon]

Stage bans already? tsk tsk tsk

I think we should enjoy the game the first couple months instead of trying to become the best at the competitive scene...

Prerogative!

Correct me of I'm wrong, but couldn't dedede (or other characters that can do it, he's just the first to come to mind) chainthrow people to death in yoshi's island pipes? Just wondering if anyone's confirmed/denied this yet, and if this is enough to warrant a continued ban or not.

Nope. I have a kid in my crew maining him. So far, the chaingrab only works on a few charatcers successively. I've seen no reason to ban walk offs. You can DI out of the grab before he gets it. If you're that close to the wall that two grabsa will do it, ZSS could just backthrow you off anyway. same for ness, wario, lucas, luigi etc.

Concerning the Electroplankton stage: Would the tether get back's only get confused on certain area's in the air or did it seem almost random? And did the movement of the leaves at the moment the move was used effect this greatly? As in, could it be purposely done by the opposing party?

Concerning smashville and possibly others: I've seen Pit's up b get back from abnormal distances. I'm guessing its possible to fly under smashville from one edge to the other repetitively. Although not a problem for some that can get to the other edge before pit, or fly around under there with him, could this be a bannable stall if what I'm talking about is possible at all? This is purely conjecture, I obviously don't own the game.

Pokemon stadium 1: Most of the time certain transformations are avoided due to the walls in the first place. However, if a transformation happened while you are off stage you will have to fight to isolate yourself from the walled area. Luck could still have its way with you. I don't think this will happen often enough to promote a ban, but definitely not a neutral this time around. IMO, all permawall stages should be banned. People camping walls could get annoying and promote the once unlikely event of getting pinned against one. Probably promote techniques that would lead into a wall pin, which would lead to its eventual ban anyway.

Stages with walk off sides: camping on the edge in general will be a big deal... easier for people like dk. The dedede chainthrow + possible other chain throws will be too easy to ko with. Possible counter picks? This includes the olimar stage btw.

-It's only happened twice, but if it does, you're dead. It seems random for now, I've been trying to recreate it.

-Hell. I've seen pit get under the sandbag platform in the waiting lobby without jumping. (ME!). This is part of this game. Any attempt at stalling a match will be called. Old melee rule. I'm sure it will follow.

-This is a popular debate. I understand what you've said, and honestly, I agree. But there will be people who don't and cause fits. This is the reason the same arguments must be brought up, time and time again to prove it's worth.
All in all, you could avoid him for 20 seconds, but IF you do get caught, by any means. You will die. It's unavoidable.

Counter picking has always been a big issue. I believe walk-off stages should be kept, so people like DK have a stronger use in the game! This will make TL easier to beat, imo.

Well, and here I was thinking I'd have to wait before the fun this topic caused would exist! But it seems Christmas has come early and we'll be debating which stages are banned before the game is even played by the majority of Smash Boards! Hooray!

As for the ban list, I will ignore it until I actually experience these stages first hand, not from word of mouth or a video. About the only stage I ever felt like banning in Melee was Yoshi's Story, if only because MAN did it have a poor layout and bad music.

Bad music is no reason to ban anything! :D

As for the ignorance, then I applaud you! most people would just argue when they knew nothing, while you took a different road, and decided to wait until you played the game! Good for you! :D

I personally think all walk-off stages should be banned un-less it's only a portion of a moving stage (Battle Ship Halberd). So, Yoshi's Island (Melee), Distant Plantet, Bridge of Eldin, and pretty much all walk-offs should be banned.

Nope. Read why up top!!!

If you happen to have the time/patience do you think you can add what stages are open for Random Select and what stages are Counter-Picks?


And if you've got a lot of time, do you think you can add reasons (for the CPs)?

I was hoping to, but keeping up with this thread, and the one in my sig, plus playing the game, girlfriend, and work kind of prohibit me from doing so. Expect it soon though!

 

[Endless Nightmares]

At the risk of being flamed, I applaud this post. I have played tournaments, and I've even played in tournaments with people from these forums, and it seems to me a) banning large stages is unfair unless you also ban small stages because like it or not some characters do have an advantage in smaller stages while the fast characters have the advantages in large stages and b) you can implement rules for fighting on Hyrule Temple such as no default win for running out of time, or a stall time limit. Heck, rules are made up for other stages and situations so why not large stages? Large stages add a whole new level of strategy which just isn't in the smaller stages.

Well...if we ban large stages and small stages...then we have no stages left lol! Might as well ban medium-sized stages too because the characters who had advantages on big and small stages are now at a disadvantage!

There's nothing wrong with large stages, it's just that some stages are TOO large. Also, Flat Zone was banned in Melee because it was too small. heh. Nothing's wrong with large or small stages, but when it's to the extreme they gotta go.

 

[dmbrandon]

An unfair tactic that apparently doesn't work all the time. I'm hearing reports from other people that level 3 CPUs can escape OMG PIKACHU INFINITE WALL COMBO. So it goes.

True. But you CANNOT escape Fox's Shine.

 

[Nikumatic]

True. But you CANNOT escape Fox's Shine.

It is possible, though not entirely easy, to shield against the shine and escape in this situation. At least, the CPU was able to do it against me eventually once I'd racked up 100+%. In any case, this is the sort of thing where the option is "don't let them hit you" or "ban all stages with stationary walls", and I prefer the first one greatly. Beyond that, the sweet spot for where you can spam the shine with yourself sandwiching the opponent with the wall and not allow them to escape is small enough where you really do almost deserve what you get if you get stuck there.

Then again, this is just about ten minutes of testing the infinite, so correct me if you like. I do think a banned stage list at this stage is INCREDIBLY premature, just as a tier list would be. My two cents.

 

[dmbrandon]

It is possible, though not entirely easy, to shield against the shine and escape in this situation. At least, the CPU was able to do it against me eventually once I'd racked up 100+%. In any case, this is the sort of thing where the option is "don't let them hit you" or "ban all stages with stationary walls", and I prefer the first one greatly. Beyond that, the sweet spot for where you can spam the shine with yourself sandwiching the opponent with the wall and not allow them to escape is small enough where you really do almost deserve what you get if you get stuck there.

Then again, this is just about ten minutes of testing the infinite, so correct me if you like. I do think a banned stage list at this stage is INCREDIBLY premature, just as a tier list would be. My two cents.

That's not a fair situation, as some people are good at defending, some at attacking. But if the person who's good at offense just practices one combo to get into the wall combo, he's going to win everytime, one he hits you.

Onett was banned for this reason, and that's when wall shining was a feat.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

That's not a fair situation, as some people are good at defending, some at attacking. But if the person who's good at offense just practices one combo to get into the wall combo, he's going to win everytime, one he hits you.

Onett was banned for this reason, and that's when wall shining was a feat.

Can you please read my post?

I'll even dig it out again:

Maybe you should play the game when someone camps the wall, catches you with some nonsense into the shine, and he DBs you to 200.



The jab infinite can be stopped as we've tested, so long as it isn't 2v1, or with something behind them. Fox's shine CANNOT.

The reason the ban is in place, is because in melee, you have to SHFFL Dair into DB jc SHHfl, etc. In this game, you hold down and hit b fast.

Or you could just hold down, and press b, x, and r, which was pretty easy imo. Anyway, my point is that you shouldn't let yourself get caught in some nonsens into shine at a wall. Now that Fox doesn't have waveshining, it is much harder to set up for infinite shines.

Also, in most of these stages, there is something interrupting the shining. Onett is an excellent example of this. The cars are on a timer (at least in melee, I expect this will transfer to brawl), that means that 90% of the time, they can only shine you against the wall for a few seconds. There is only one area (the little platform next to the house on the left side) where you aren't interrupted by the cars.

Also, waveshining wasn't the major reason for banning the stage. It was because fox was so overpowered there, with waveshining off the edges (not in brawl) and extremely easy vertical kills (which aren't a big deal anymore due to nerfed uair and usmash).

IMO Onett deserves a second chance.

And so you CAN escape the jab infinites, good find. I suspected as much.[/quote]

 

[Nikumatic]

That's not a fair situation, as some people are good at defending, some at attacking. But if the person who's good at offense just practices one combo to get into the wall combo, he's going to win everytime, one he hits you.

Onett was banned for this reason, and that's when wall shining was a feat.

Fair enough, but I feel that there hasn't been enough time for people to play with the game to really tell how feasible it would or wouldn't be for someone to even combo them into that position. If it becomes a prevalent technique, there may also be prevalent escape techniques. It's too early to put a blanket ban on walled stages, just as it is on others.

Caveat, I'm also not a fan of banning stages for user errors. For example, I really don't see much wrong with 75m, as all of the stage hazards are slow moving or telegraphed. While it's possible to camp to try and keep someone on the top platform, I don't think that will end up being a very large factor in the level.

Electroplankton likewise, I haven't played with it much with tether recovery characters, but it seems like something that might be avoidable by using your recovery only when there's no room for error. Unfortunate, but I wouldn't say banworthy. I might change my mind on this if there absolutely is no way to predict an auto-aiming failure, but I'll check it out.

Mario Bros possibly for the reasons you say, but the enemies moving around and the spawning fireballs make it much harder to camp than it seems. Not that I'm disagreeing, it's pretty ****ed chaotic, but it might bear more play as well. Flatzone 2 and Wario Ware I need to play around with more, but the former doesn't seem nearly as terrible and random as the one in the first game. Wario Ware, the only REAL problem with the stage I can find is that the reward system can give you a starman. The games themselves aren't actually much of a hazard. Most of the other stages I haven't gotten much playtime with yet, so I'll get back to them.

 

[yggdrasil325]

Some of these stages that are being suggested to be banned because of camping out the time limit should be allowed for time matches, because campers would have to come out and actually kill someone in order to score.

For the rapid A wall combos, JUST Mushroomy Kingdom shouldn't be banned: If you see wall where you could get comboed off screen, avoid it. With the other rapid A wall stages, it's a little harder to avoid going near them.

WarioWare is so chaotic and unpredictable that even if one minigame gives a character an advantage/disadvantage, it will even out in the end imo. Everyone will get pwned by the minigames.

Pokemon Stadium 2 seems to have only one thing going against it: Diddy's bananas, which don't seem like a major problem. One character is not enough to make it unfair. And if you complain about the flying stage making it too slow, I will remind you that the stage changes repeatedly. It isn't permanent. And if it's that big of a deal, just play time or timed stock.

But my biggest point is that it's too early for a US banned stage list, much less a Europe or Worldwide banned list.

One more thing: what about custom stages? I know the custom stages will be different on each wii, but what about the daily featured stages that you can download? It seems wrong to ban individual custom stages, and I don't like the prospect of banning them all.

 

[freeman123]

Why would Rumble Falls be banned? Doesn't it just keep scrolling in the same direction at the same speed? The reason Icicle Mountain was banned was because it randomly changed directions and speed.

 

[dmbrandon]

Some of these stages that are being suggested to be banned because of camping out the time limit should be allowed for time matches, because campers would have to come out and actually kill someone in order to score.

For the rapid A wall combos, JUST Mushroomy Kingdom shouldn't be banned: If you see wall where you could get comboed off screen, avoid it. With the other rapid A wall stages, it's a little harder to avoid going near them.

WarioWare is so chaotic and unpredictable that even if one minigame gives a character an advantage/disadvantage, it will even out in the end imo. Everyone will get pwned by the minigames.

Pokemon Stadium 2 seems to have only one thing going against it: Diddy's bananas, which don't seem like a major problem. One character is not enough to make it unfair. And if you complain about the flying stage making it too slow, I will remind you that the stage changes repeatedly. It isn't permanent. And if it's that big of a deal, just play time or timed stock.

But my biggest point is that it's too early for a US banned stage list, much less a Europe or Worldwide banned list.

One more thing: what about custom stages? I know the custom stages will be different on each wii, but what about the daily featured stages that you can download? It seems wrong to ban individual custom stages, and I don't like the prospect of banning them all.

It's never too early for anything. You don't seem to have enough tourn experience to understand the claims your making, sir. /copypasta.

As for the customs, people can use them, and abuse things about the ones they made that others won't know. =/= fair.

 

[dmbrandon]

Why would Rumble Falls be banned? Doesn't it just keep scrolling in the same direction at the same speed? The reason Icicle Mountain was banned was because it randomly changed directions and speed.

It changes CONSTANTLY. That, and there are spikes that can kill you at 20%.

 

[JhMS]

Its a shame for Shadow Moses and Corneria,but I get it.
Hopefully theres a way to avoid that infinites.Unlikely,but hopefully.

 

[brawlpro]

Cool list, I hope the official one doesn't leave too many stages out..later.

 

[zestypizza]

what happens in frigate orpheon if your standing on it when it turns?

 

[Gojithefox]

sorry, but we cant have Random_Jo giving M2K 100%+ (a stock if he knows how to make the yellow Cstick go up.) just because he was able to get a jab off near a wall, and continue to hit the green button.

Why not? If M2K is as good as you're implying, then s/he shouldn't get into that situation in the first place. He should be aware of his opponent's abilities and adjust himself accordingly. To say anything else is just ugly elitism.

 

[zestypizza]

Why not? If M2K is as good as you're implying, then s/he shouldn't get into that situation in the first place. He should be aware of his opponent's abilities and adjust himself accordingly. To say anything else is just ugly elitism.

if you were playing the random_jo would you want to be grabbed, thrown into a corner, and jabbed to 999%?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

lol @ "ugly elitism"

To people saying "well just don't get hit/grabbed/trapped in a corner/shined/breastfed", that's not as easy as you're saying it is. You can't just avoid things like that. And just because a player is good doesn't mean he can simply "adjust himself accordingly" and never get grabbed or something. It's easier to understand if you have experience playing some kind of competitive smash. To say anything else is just ugly elitism.

 

[Zenjamin]

also, im talking to someone now who says DDD can chain-grab-infinite against a wall...

that means you dont even have to be against a wall you just have to to be grabbed by DDD when you are between him and a wall.
and as ima DDD main, I think walls should be allowed *is only half-joking*

 

[Cap'n]

That's not a fair situation, as some people are good at defending, some at attacking. But if the person who's good at offense just practices one combo to get into the wall combo, he's going to win everytime, one he hits you

Do you think Jiggs should be banned because of rest combos, by any chance?

 

[dmbrandon]

also, im talking to someone now who says DDD can chain-grab-infinite against a wall...

that means you dont even have to be against a wall you just have to to be grabbed by DDD when you are between him and a wall.
and as ima DDD main, I think walls should be allowed *is only half-joking*

****. This is not good news. v_v

Do you think Jiggs should be banned because of rest combos, by any chance?

/joke post.

 

[zestypizza]

Do you think Jiggs should be banned because of rest combos, by any chance?

jigglypuff's rest is completely different than an infinite combo
that would be like banning Pit's recovery because its good

 

[Cap'n]

You combo into a rest and they die. If they don't die at first you can do it again. -_-

You combo into an infinite and they die.

Either way, I think you're overzealous with your banning, and should reconsider many of your original choices.

 

[zestypizza]

You combo into a rest and they die. If they don't die at first you can do it again. -_-

You combo into an infinite and they die.

Either way, I think you're overzealous with your banning, and should reconsider many of your original choices.

it goes a little more like this:

You combo into a rest and they take 20 damage and fly near the edge of the stage (but dont die). when they dont die they come back and combo you into 70 damage (because yor still asleap), when you miss the second time (because they have just a little too much damage to combo them again) you get hit off of the edge because your so light.-_-

Either way, I think you're logical with your banning, and I should congradulate many of your original choices

 

[Thinkaman]

Since I don't have the game, I've had time to give this quite a bit of thought. Of course, all I have to base my silly speculation on is information from people who do have the game, along with videos. I typed up some ideas, but certainly can't justify making a topic since again I don't have the game and it's ultimately all speculation on my part. Since most my information came from this fantastic thread, I'll post it here.

My only questions to dmbrandon concerns tether recovery (or stages it doesn't work on) and the wall-infinites. Correct me if my perception is wrong, but infinites and gimped recovery locations have never been primary reasons for banning stages in 64 or melee, right? Those stages were simply advantageous counterpicks for or against associated characters, and the disadvantaged could still be a very viable fighter by going out of their way to avoid the problematic situations.

The ban only comes into play when the problematic situation is more or less unavoidable, like getting waveshined to death on Yoshi's Story. I simply question whether or not tetherless recovery and wall infinites are really all-encompassing and unavoidable on many of the considered stages. Ultimately, we have to trust your analysis for the next month.

Anyway, here are my petty thoughts:

A. 100% Certain Random:
-Battlefield
-Final Destiantion

B. Almost Certain Random:
-Frigate Orpheon (Flipping is minimally disruptive, even tactical.)
-Yoshi's Island (General layout, support platform does not appear to be a negative factor.)
-Lylat Cruise (Crazy background does not a hazard make.)
-Smashville (Very popular layout, moving platform does not appear to set up kills too easily at all.)

C. Possibly Random, Possibly Counterpick:
-Delfino Plaza (Does water and platform movement give a substancial enough advantage to certain characters?)
-Luigi's Mansion (Is there any major issue with having that amount of platforms?)
-Bridge of Eldin (Walk-off edges not an issue, but the stage size and seemingly large-yet-easy-to-avoid hazard and accompanying predictable transformation leave questions.)
-Great Sea (I know the least about this stage; Are there hazards? How disruptive is the stage progression?)
-Battleship Halberd (Seems like Mute City with edges and no cars...)
-Castle Seige (Stage appears balanced, though consistant "transformations" may be deemed too disruptive for Random. I see no problem with the brief falling sequences.)
-Distant Planet (Surprisingly decent layout and ease in avoiding hazards, but their significance still raises heavy doubts about putting this stage on Random.)
-Pokemon Stadium (More concern over walls/corners require evaluation of Pokemon Stadium as a Random stage, though Counterpick should be fine.)

D. Almost Certain Counterpick:
-Mario Circuit (Unorthodox platform layout and well-forecast but potent hazards offer no broken strategies but keep the stage from being Random.)
-Norfair (Major hazard does not seem persistent enough to warrant banning, but keeps the stage from ever being Random.)
-Pokemon Stadium 2 (Wind and Electric transformations too unorthodox for Random, but have no apparent broken tactics or bias.)
-Port Town (The new Mute City. Cars stronger, not enough to be ban-worthy.)
-Electroplankton (Odd layouts with difficult tethering, but nothing explicitly broken about the stage.)
-Rainbow Ride (Predictable but still unique scrolling with difficulties for tether recoveries.)
-Brinstar (Major but predictable and avoidable hazard.)
-Corneria (Layout/ceiling is biased towards certain characters, and has minor hazards + a corner. Best example of a Counterpick.)
-Jungle Japes (Same old campy platforms, high ceiling, and difficult at best tether recovery. No basis for being Random, no basis for being banned.)

E. Possibly Counterpick, Possibly Banned:
-Mushroomy Kingdom (Alternate random layout, auto-scrolling, walls, and walk-off edges seem like a recipe for disaster, but nothing broken is certain yet.)
-75m (Layout seems poor and possibly cmapy, but nothing broken or extremely biased has been discovered yet.)
-The Summit (Lack of edges and a large wall makes Random certainly out; I have not heard if the "loop" is concise enough to warrant a ban though.)
-Pictochat (seems less absurd than previously thought; the new Pokefloats? I would like to know more about how random it is and how deadly the hazards are.)
-Shadow Moses Island (Will need lots of playtesting across tons of matchups. Critical are exact details like: How big of a disadvantage are the walls, how easily can they be destroyed, and for how long?)
-Green Hill Zone (The gaps seem to appear randomly with no warning. More testing required to see how undesirable this is. Unlikely to be especially advantageous for certain players, but just disliked by too many players.)
-Yoshi's Island (The stage does have a chance now, but the extremely claustrophobic sides and ceiling leave plenty of questions to its viability.)
-Big Blue (Nothing seems readily apparent in terms of outright broken tactics, especially with a more floaty game, but... it's still Big Blue.)
-Onett (Serious walls/corners are the main issue. Cars hardly an issue.)
-Green Greens (Layout still strange, apples and random bombs still raise large questions about this stage.)

F. Almost Certain Banned Stages
-Rumble Falls (Fast scrolling and deadly hazards, no chance.)
-Spear Pillar (Control inversion is unacceptable to the vast majority of players.)
-Wario Ware (Obviously; it's almost like a Smash Bros. themed minigame.)
-New Pork City (Way too big, impossible even for teams.)
-Mario Bros. (Layout not remotely condusive to Smash.)
-Flat Zone 2 (Too small, too many hazards of too deadly magnitute. Not happening.)
-Hyrule Temple (Same as New Pork City.)

6-14 Random stages, 9-24 Counterpicks, and 7-17 Banned. The stage selection overall seems pretty solid, something for everyone.

 

[dmbrandon]

Since I don't have the game, I've had time to give this quite a bit of thought. Of course, all I have to base my silly speculation on is information from people who do have the game, along with videos. I typed up some ideas, but certainly can't justify making a topic since again I don't have the game and it's ultimately all speculation on my part. Since most my information came from this fantastic thread, I'll post it here.

My only questions to dmbrandon concerns tether recovery (or stages it doesn't work on) and the wall-infinites. Correct me if my perception is wrong, but infinites and gimped recovery locations have never been primary reasons for banning stages in 64 or melee, right? Those stages were simply advantageous counterpicks for or against associated characters, and the disadvantaged could still be a very viable fighter by going out of their way to avoid the problematic situations.

The ban only comes into play when the problematic situation is more or less unavoidable, like getting waveshined to death on Yoshi's Story. I simply question whether or not tetherless recovery and wall infinites are really all-encompassing and unavoidable on many of the considered stages. Ultimately, we have to trust your analysis for the next month.

Anyway, here are my petty thoughts:

A. 100% Certain Random:
-Battlefield
-Final Destiantion

B. Almost Certain Random:
-Frigate Orpheon (Flipping is minimally disruptive, even tactical.)
-Yoshi's Island (General layout, support platform does not appear to be a negative factor.)
-Lylat Cruise (Crazy background does not a hazard make.)
-Smashville (Very popular layout, moving platform does not appear to set up kills too easily at all.)

C. Possibly Random, Possibly Counterpick:
-Delfino Plaza (Does water and platform movement give a substancial enough advantage to certain characters?)
-Luigi's Mansion (Is there any major issue with having that amount of platforms?)
-Bridge of Eldin (Walk-off edges not an issue, but the stage size and seemingly large-yet-easy-to-avoid hazard and accompanying predictable transformation leave questions.)
-Great Sea (I know the least about this stage; Are there hazards? How disruptive is the stage progression?)
-Battleship Halberd (Seems like Mute City with edges and no cars...)
-Castle Seige (Stage appears balanced, though consistant "transformations" may be deemed too disruptive for Random. I see no problem with the brief falling sequences.)
-Distant Planet (Surprisingly decent layout and ease in avoiding hazards, but their significance still raises heavy doubts about putting this stage on Random.)
-Pokemon Stadium (More concern over walls/corners require evaluation of Pokemon Stadium as a Random stage, though Counterpick should be fine.)

D. Almost Certain Counterpick:
-Mario Circuit (Unorthodox platform layout and well-forecast but potent hazards offer no broken strategies but keep the stage from being Random.)
-Norfair (Major hazard does not seem persistent enough to warrant banning, but keeps the stage from ever being Random.)
-Pokemon Stadium 2 (Wind and Electric transformations too unorthodox for Random, but have no apparent broken tactics or bias.)
-Port Town (The new Mute City. Cars stronger, not enough to be ban-worthy.)
-Electroplankton (Odd layouts with difficult tethering, but nothing explicitly broken about the stage.)
-Rainbow Ride (Predictable but still unique scrolling with difficulties for tether recoveries.)
-Brinstar (Major but predictable and avoidable hazard.)
-Corneria (Layout/ceiling is biased towards certain characters, and has minor hazards + a corner. Best example of a Counterpick.)
-Jungle Japes (Same old campy platforms, high ceiling, and difficult at best tether recovery. No basis for being Random, no basis for being banned.)

E. Possibly Counterpick, Possibly Banned:
-Mushroomy Kingdom (Alternate random layout, auto-scrolling, walls, and walk-off edges seem like a recipe for disaster, but nothing broken is certain yet.)
-75m (Layout seems poor and possibly cmapy, but nothing broken or extremely biased has been discovered yet.)
-The Summit (Lack of edges and a large wall makes Random certainly out; I have not heard if the "loop" is concise enough to warrant a ban though.)
-Pictochat (seems less absurd than previously thought; the new Pokefloats? I would like to know more about how random it is and how deadly the hazards are.)
-Shadow Moses Island (Will need lots of playtesting across tons of matchups. Critical are exact details like: How big of a disadvantage are the walls, how easily can they be destroyed, and for how long?)
-Green Hill Zone (The gaps seem to appear randomly with no warning. More testing required to see how undesirable this is. Unlikely to be especially advantageous for certain players, but just disliked by too many players.)
-Yoshi's Island (The stage does have a chance now, but the extremely claustrophobic sides and ceiling leave plenty of questions to its viability.)
-Big Blue (Nothing seems readily apparent in terms of outright broken tactics, especially with a more floaty game, but... it's still Big Blue.)
-Onett (Serious walls/corners are the main issue. Cars hardly an issue.)
-Green Greens (Layout still strange, apples and random bombs still raise large questions about this stage.)

F. Almost Certain Banned Stages
-Rumble Falls (Fast scrolling and deadly hazards, no chance.)
-Spear Pillar (Control inversion is unacceptable to the vast majority of players.)
-Wario Ware (Obviously; it's almost like a Smash Bros. themed minigame.)
-New Pork City (Way too big, impossible even for teams.)
-Mario Bros. (Layout not remotely condusive to Smash.)
-Flat Zone 2 (Too small, too many hazards of too deadly magnitute. Not happening.)
-Hyrule Temple (Same as New Pork City.)

6-14 Random stages, 9-24 Counterpicks, and 7-17 Banned. The stage selection overall seems pretty solid, something for everyone.

Don't post these things until you've played the game, and you understand it, plz.

 

[Faith]

Don't post these things until you've played the game, and you understand it, plz.

Yeah don't post because discussion is bad.

Some things are obvious and you can make conclusions by just seeing it. Ofcourse the things you learn from actually playing are going to overule the premade conclusions. That doesn't make it taboo to talk about.

 

[Thinkaman]

Again, pretty much everything I posted was based solely on your provided information on the stages, I'm not trying to make up and pass on stuff without having the game. I was more or less recapping for the sake of the discussion at hand...

You have tons of clueless people in this thread who refuse to acknowledge the fact that you have actually played the game, but I am not one of them.

 

[dmbrandon]

Yeah don't post because discussion is bad.

Some things are obvious and you can make conclusions by just seeing it. Ofcourse the things you learn from actually playing are going to overule the premade conclusions. That doesn't make it taboo to talk about.

I saw some guy throw knives at a girl on a spinning wheel, without hitting her. I counted the frames before the release in the vid, and asked him about power, so i think I can convince my girl to let me try it.

After all, I've seen it. I must know what I'm talking about.

 

[Thinkaman]

You (dmbrandon) are right, this is pretty much a one-way conversation. If the people that actually have experience with the game turn around and say "Guys, you don't understand, it's easy to trap someone in a corner so there is NO WAY Shadow Moses will be legal." we have to believe them. I was just summarizing my understanding of what has been said prior, since obviously people that have the game have much better things to do.

 

[dmbrandon]

You (dmbrandon) are right, this is pretty much a one-way conversation. If the people that actually have experience with the game turn around and say "Guys, you don't understand, it's easy to trap someone in a corner so there is NO WAY Shadow Moses will be legal." we have to believe them. I was just summarizing my understanding of what has been said prior, since obviously people that have the game have much better things to do.

I did jump to conclusions, sorry! On with the thread!

 

[Dr Mario Kart]

There ought to be some sort of "Smashboards Standard" Custom map.

Nearly all of the maps have some sort of overhang right under the ledge that its easy to get caught under.

Whatever that map is thats to the left of FD is the best map, followed by Animal Crossing, but they both still have that overhang problem. FD has it pretty bad.

A map needs to be made thats a fixed FD and a fixed whatever that is to the left of it.

 

[dmbrandon]

There ought to be some sort of "Smashboards Standard" Custom map.

Nearly all of the maps have some sort of overhang right under the ledge that its easy to get caught under.

Whatever that map is thats to the left of FD is the best map, followed by Animal Crossing, but they both still have that overhang problem. FD has it pretty bad.

A map needs to be made thats a fixed FD and a fixed whatever that is to the left of it.

Or don't be a noob and get stuck under there?

 

[Dr Mario Kart]

Or maybe its the reason no one ever played the original Battlefield?

 

[Thinkaman]

Yes, didn't stop Battlefield from being a favored Melee stage, and videos make it clear that none of the new stages are half as bad as it was.

Edit: Lol, same time contradictory post. Whoever this "no one" was that didn't play Battlefield, they apparently didn't win any tourneys either.

 

[dmbrandon]

Yes, didn't stop Battlefield from being a favored Melee stage, and videos make it clear that none of the new stages are half as bad as it was.

Edit: Lol, same time contradictory post. Whoever this "no one" was that didn't play Battlefield, they apparently didn't win any tourneys either.

OUCHHHHHHH