Montage's List of Stage Bans!

[dmbrandon]

You could pin people in the hole on pokemon stadium in melee with rapid A, still wasn't banned. Since the transitions are temporary it would be wise to avoid standing directly in front of walls or teching into them against someone with a rapid jab. Others may warrant it, or a rapid jab against a wall ban, but not stadium. Also, all those wall stages should be viable for teams if the walls are the only reason for their banning. If you manage to both get wall jabbed at the same time and can't free each other then you deserve to lose 2 stocks.

I thought about it, and what if it's down to 1on1? Then if one person who has 170% catches an infinite against a person who is at 0, he loses.

 

[Parassita]

Is this official or just opinion? Just wondering, because that's a lot of good stages in Brawl. At least there's still Smashville... :,[ As I said, just wondering.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I thought about it, and what if it's down to 1on1? Then if one person who has 170% catches an infinite against a person who is at 0, he loses.

If one of the opposing teammate is gone, then that's not anyone's problem except the remaining teammate's.

Think of it this way: all events and happenings in this game can be represented with a Flow Chart of events. If even one is theoretically preventable by the victim, and if they DO get hit by hit, do not suffer an auto-loss of the game or glitch out the game's mechanics for the rest of the match, then the resulting consequences are not broken enough to deserve global banning. You make it sound like Pikachu can Waveshine from one end of the stage to the other. This simply isn't the case. You have just as much control over your character to not get backed into a wall, vulnerable, by Pikachu of all characters. To my understanding, it is only Pika's cannot be Smash DI'd or escaped in any way. All others are reasonably escapable.

VC in SCIII was banned because the automatic match wins that it generated, and because the sheer amount of situations where it could be done, which was anywhere. This is far from the same thing, and can realistically only go so far as a soft/selective ban, such as Wobbling and Infinite Waveshines. And also, the difficulty of execution really doesn't matter in the long run, in reference to Infinite Waveshines, and Wobbling which can be done on any grab and with the TV off.

 

[Yuna]

The New Mute City
The cars still come at set intervall with an advanced warning, so you'll know it. The fact that they KO people easier now just makes them more deadly. The fact that characters who are very mobile in the air and can stay airborne for long periods of time have a great advantage on that stage at certain times existed already in Melee and it wasn't considered unfair then.

Because the worst thing that could happen if you jumped, double jumped and then Up + B:ed or airdodged to avoid the cars would be you eating an aerial. And now that most aerials have been nerfed, that makes it even less of a punishment than in Melee.

Donkey Kong Arcade
You can't fall below the platforms... I can see that being very unfair, especially if the opponent is, like, Marth and could just disjoint you to death without risk.

New Pork City
Even Sakurai compared it to Hyrule. It is the New Hyrule. Fast character with a projectile (or facing someone without one)? Whack the opponent once and then run away for the rest of the match. It has to, indeed, be banned.

You cannot ban stages for having walls, though. This could be a problem if certain/all Rapid As are now infinites against walls. The knockback seems to be much less at least on Sheik's rapid A.

 

[therealssjlink]

dmbrandon, you do not have Green Hill Zone on your list.

Please refer to this video:

PBody Brawl tournament - Nes (Peach) vs. Lucky (Sonic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05oROcchaTY

 

[KirbySSB]

is smash DI not in brawl?

 

[dmbrandon]

Is this official or just opinion? Just wondering, because that's a lot of good stages in Brawl. At least there's still Smashville... :,[ As I said, just wondering.

While it's only opinion, I assume it'll be official soon enough,.

 

[Parassita]

While it's only opinion, I assume it'll be official soon enough,.

True. I still do like New Pork City, but I would rather practice and play the majority of time on stages like Smashville, Luigi's Mansion, and Great Sea. Possibly Delfino Plaza. I like the Sunshine music.

 

[Rikka]

No offense, but is there are reason your opinion over everyone else is going to become official so quickly?

I agree on some, but I still believe in proper testing even for the obvious bans.

 

[therealssjlink]

No offense, but is there are reason your opinion over everyone else is going to become official so quickly?

I agree on some, but I still believe in proper testing even for the obvious bans.

There definitely needs to be extensive testing because they allowed Green Hill Zone in a TOURNAMENT without knowing that the floor will randomly collapse (It didn't do it when they practiced, and happened pretty late in their fight).

 

[Yuna]

Why didn't you mention the Wario Ware stage? It will randomly switch between modes with the "other" modes flinging stuff that will KO you at 50% at you (and most of them are too fast and numerous to dodge unless you're lucky enough to be standing in the right spot and not in the wrong one).

 

[Parassita]

Why didn't you mention the Wario Ware stage? It will randomly switch between modes with the "other" modes flinging stuff that will KO you at 50% at you (and most of them are too fast and numerous to dodge unless you're lucky enough to be standing in the right spot and not in the wrong one).

There's mention of the Wario Ware stage. It's just TOO random for a tourney. Review the first post again, I'm sure I saw it.

 

[Finn Macool]

well reasoned arguments for why the stages should be banned i havent got brawl so i cant really say but all the choices make sense
what about the pikmin stage, that looked pretty unfair

 

[Yuna]

There's mention of the Wario Ware stage. It's just TOO random for a tourney. Review the first post again, I'm sure I saw it.

There it is. The auto-linking somehow made my eyes ignore it the first time around.

 

[Parassita]

well reasoned arguments for why the stages should be banned i havent got brawl so i cant really say but all the choices make sense
what about the pikmin stage, that looked pretty unfair

From videos I've seen, Distant Planet is tourney worthy and perfect for a fair Brawl. Just don't get caught in the river that the rain creates. Or fall into that weird Pikmin creature's mouth. It's going to be a popular stage most likely, especially among the many Olimar fans.

 

[dmbrandon]

No offense, but is there are reason your opinion over everyone else is going to become official so quickly?

I agree on some, but I still believe in proper testing even for the obvious bans.

We are doing INTENSE testing. Timing on stage flips, looking at damage ratios, and kill % on hazards. We're no scrubs, son.

There definitely needs to be extensive testing because they allowed Green Hill Zone in a TOURNAMENT without knowing that the floor will randomly collapse (It didn't do it when they practiced, and happened pretty late in their fight).

Green hill is fine. If the floor collapses, it collapses. It's a hazard. There's no reason that it's not fair.

Why didn't you mention the Wario Ware stage? It will randomly switch between modes with the "other" modes flinging stuff that will KO you at 50% at you (and most of them are too fast and numerous to dodge unless you're lucky enough to be standing in the right spot and not in the wrong one).

Yuna never reads posts! :D

well reasoned arguments for why the stages should be banned i havent got brawl so i cant really say but all the choices make sense
what about the pikmin stage, that looked pretty unfair

V

From videos I've seen, Distant Planet is tourney worthy and perfect for a fair Brawl. Just don't get caught in the river that the rain creates. Or fall into that weird Pikmin creature's mouth. It's going to be a popular stage most likely, especially among the many Olimar fans.

This stage, and sky world are still in talks with us. Expect a ban on Skyworld, due to breaking the floors. tether recover won't work.

Distant planet is back and forth. We really can't decide.

 

[Parassita]

Well, may I provide an opinion on Distant Planet? There will be the occasional argument for its ban due to the obstacles and hazards such as rain causing that -basically- inescapable river and the giant monster thing that feeds on your character, however, these are easily avoidable and provide more epic defeats while playing in a tourney. Basically, it's a simple stage, but there's a lot of show. Would you rather watch someone fall off the stage, or fall into the mouth of a beast far beyond recovery? I plan on entering Wi-Fi Brawl tournies, as I have never entered a Smash Bros. tourney before and look foward to showing my skills. Distant Planet is walking a thin rope above the pit of banning, but I think that it shouldn't be banned. Most of the obstacles are avoidable and entertaining to see. It provides a great base for advanced players to match on. That's jsut my opinion, I hope you'll take it into account.

 

[dmbrandon]

Well, may I provide an opinion on Distant Planet? There will be the occasional argument for its ban due to the obstacles and hazards such as rain causing that -basically- inescapable river and the giant monster thing that feeds on your character, however, these are easily avoidable and provide more epic defeats while playing in a tourney. Basically, it's a simple stage, but there's a lot of show. Would you rather watch someone fall off the stage, or fall into the mouth of a beast far beyond recovery? I plan on entering Wi-Fi Brawl tournies, as I have never entered a Smash Bros. tourney before and look foward to showing my skills. Distant Planet is walking a thin rope above the pit of banning, but I think that it shouldn't be banned. Most of the obstacles are avoidable and entertaining to see. It provides a great base for advanced players to match on. That's jsut my opinion, I hope you'll take it into account.

You should pride yourself in your opinions. you display with without shoving them down people's throats, and approach all angles. Good job!

Anyway, I think it's gonna be like green greens. It'll never get solved.

 

[chimpxstyle]

Well, may I provide an opinion on Distant Planet? There will be the occasional argument for its ban due to the obstacles and hazards such as rain causing that -basically- inescapable river and the giant monster thing that feeds on your character, however, these are easily avoidable and provide more epic defeats while playing in a tourney. Basically, it's a simple stage, but there's a lot of show. Would you rather watch someone fall off the stage, or fall into the mouth of a beast far beyond recovery? I plan on entering Wi-Fi Brawl tournies, as I have never entered a Smash Bros. tourney before and look foward to showing my skills. Distant Planet is walking a thin rope above the pit of banning, but I think that it shouldn't be banned. Most of the obstacles are avoidable and entertaining to see. It provides a great base for advanced players to match on. That's jsut my opinion, I hope you'll take it into account.

That monster's gaping jaw is not far beyond recovery. You can definitely recover from there with a good number of characters.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Just gonna post some observations.

The Green Hill Zone random floor collapse happens very quickly and with no visible prior warning. Ness or Lucas would probably have no chance of recovering from that. Even the Peach in the posted video had literally no chance to react to it at all.

Frigate Orpheon. You have about two seconds to react, and you can easily be killed if you're trying to recover. Again, I could see the stage flip really screwing up a Lucas/Ness Recovery.

Jungle Japes. Water forces you into a swimming animation for a few seconds. You can't jump out as fast as you could in melee and it's alot easier to die from it now. It's a lot more unforgiving than the racers on the Fzero stage.

Rainbow Cruise. Characters with tether recoveries can get screwed. You can no longer jump through the floating blocks as well.

Picto Chat. The hazards are rampant and do an extreme amount of damage and knockback.

Opponents having an equal chance to get destroyed by the stage may be fair, but that doesn't make it competitive. The stages in brawl are a lot less forgiving. The banned stages in Melee were mostly banned because of exploits, not because of random nonsense or painful hazards ****** your characters.

 

[Misto-Roboto]

Show me, in the post where it says this please. Did you even read the topic or are you just plain ignorant? **** it people this also is not set in stone. This is a loose prediction, with reasoning behind it. Most of the obstacles and stage gimmicks are very powerful in brawl and in some cases very difficult to avoid. It is sad, but true. When March hits you are going to be looking back saying "Wow, some of the stuff those guys said about these stages was right." and "ARGH! THAT STUPID FZERO CAR JUST KILLED ME AT 60%!!"

Relax, don't forget that many in this section of the forum are not all wise to the competitive scene and you don't make us look any better by jumping at every opportunity to rag on those not as familiar to these ways of thinking.

On a separate note, i can't agree with you on any stage until, like many of us, it hits the states and we can also verify your claims. I'm obviously not just going to take your word for it.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Indeed. We found it today. We were all very upset.

Have you tried SDI ing out of it?

 

[joeysmash]

No, i am pretty sure that most of these stages won't be banned... come on, any thing different (pokemon stadium 2) ZOMG WE HAVE TO ADJUST BAN THIS!!!

Also in sidscrollers like mushrommy kingdom, don't all the characters get bounced around a lot equally???

I am competive, but many of you all whine way to much...

 

[Keitaro]

Poke Stadium shouldn't be banned. Fox was able to drill shine infinite there along with other characters normal a attack plus the stage changes anyway.

Whoever gets caught in these stuff just have to deal with it but it doesn't happen often enough to be banned.

 

[Zenjamin]

I love PKstadium1. and i know the walls eventually go away... but it has to go.

in melee it was OK to get caught in an infinite shine as long as you knew you would eventually get out, because It takes real skill to do. and even silent wolf can mess it up sometimes.

but just tapping A over and over takes no skill, and it is verry unlikely that even a noob would screw that up.

sorry, but we cant have Random_Jo giving M2K 100%+ (a stock if he knows how to make the yellow Cstick go up.) just because he was able to get a jab off near a wall, and continue to hit the green button.

 

[heytallman]

I have a question about Mario Circuit. From videos I've seen, it looks like, when you're on the bottom, you can't get KO'd/KO to the side, and the jump in the course makes kind of a box that traps people in. So, from what I've seen, the only way to KO is off the top from the platform in the middle, but beneath the ramp, or when you're fighting on the ramps on the side, which look kinda awkward to fight on.

Also, if the course does make a boxlike thing, it would be infinite-jabable, unless if you can get hit by one of the racers whilst doing it.

But then again, I could be completely wrong about EVERYTHING on this stage, and it could be completely fair. Could anyone clarify these things about this stage?

 

[Grmo]

I dunno, I find that The Summit is kind of ******** for singles. It would be fine for doubles I think, but for singles it's just a camp fest, running around in circles for 7 minutes because of the wall.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I love PKstadium1. and i know the walls eventually go away... but it has to go.

in melee it was OK to get caught in an infinite shine as long as you knew you would eventually get out, because It takes real skill to do. and even silent wolf can mess it up sometimes.

but just tapping A over and over takes no skill, and it is verry unlikely that even a noob would screw that up.

sorry, but we cant have Random_Jo giving M2K 100%+ (a stock if he knows how to make the yellow Cstick go up.) just because he was able to get a jab off near a wall, and continue to hit the green button.

Wallshining is really easy, you know.

Also, I don't think that he's tried SDI'ing the rapid a attacks, and I doubt that they are unescapable.

Pokemon Stadium shouldn't be banned.

 

[JoJoRukus]

You might want to consider taking a look at the Green Hills Zone. A good example would be the ending of a match Gimpy had on it. Look it up on youtube.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

Stadium 2 absolutely has to be banned if it's the same as it was when I played on it at E 4 All. That stage was terrible. All the transformations really just made it impossible to fight. You just had to adjust till it transformed again.

Stadium 1 should not be banned IMO but I'm biased as it's my favorite stage.

 

[Zenjamin]

Wallshining is really easy, you know.

Also, I don't think that he's tried SDI'ing the rapid a attacks, and I doubt that they are unescapable.

Pokemon Stadium shouldn't be banned.

PKstadium was my favorate stage. I can understand that banning it would meet resistance.

But IF you cant escape it with smash DI, then its gotta go.
wallshining isnt easy to learn, anything seems easy once you perfect it. but to wallshine you gotta have experence within the competive smash community.

It DOES take skill to do.

and even once its mastered, there is still a good chance you screw up.
but if some noob gets a jab off against you by a wall, you might as well put down your controller and wait for him to kill you, or for the stage to change.

 

[chimpxstyle]

Actually in Brawl, I beleive wall shining just requires you spam Down B. Nothing special.

 

[dmbrandon]

Green hill should be a counter pick. Saffron City in 64 was playable as a counter against ness.

Pictochat needs further study. Orpheon I still say is fine.

JJ needs a ban, I think. We'll figure it out tonight.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

PKstadium was my favorate stage. I can understand that banning it would meet resistance.

But IF you cant escape it with smash DI, then its gotta go.
wallshining isnt easy to learn, anything seems easy once you perfect it. but to wallshine you gotta have experence within the competive smash community.

It DOES take skill to do.

and even once its mastered, there is still a good chance you screw up.
but if some noob gets a jab off against you by a wall, you might as well put down your controller and wait for him to kill you, or for the stage to change.

Then don't let yourself get jabbed against a wall. If you're fighting a noob, it shouldn't be that hard.

dmbrandon: have you tried sdi'ing the jabs?

 

[freetyme]

It's a shame the new F-ZERO stage seems to be on the chopping block. I don't know why I think it's a shame, I'm not even a tournament player. Oh well, I'll still enjoy playing it with friends.

 

[dmbrandon]

Have you tried SDI ing out of it?

No. We're all ****ing terrible at the game. In fact, I don't know what SDI means. In fact, I should quit the whole ****ing game all together. idiot.

No, i am pretty sure that most of these stages won't be banned... come on, any thing different (pokemon stadium 2) ZOMG WE HAVE TO ADJUST BAN THIS!!!

Also in sidscrollers like mushrommy kingdom, don't all the characters get bounced around a lot equally???

I am competive, but many of you all whine way to much...

You're a noob. All you're doing is trolling. Make an intelligent post and I'll get back to you/

Poke Stadium shouldn't be banned. Fox was able to drill shine infinite there along with other characters normal a attack plus the stage changes anyway.

Whoever gets caught in these stuff just have to deal with it but it doesn't happen often enough to be banned.

That's what you think, K. You'll see tonight. ^^

Wallshining is really easy, you know.

Also, I don't think that he's tried SDI'ing the rapid a attacks, and I doubt that they are unescapable.

Pokemon Stadium shouldn't be banned.

Again, What's SDI? I'm a complete noob. That's why I spent 400$ on impoting. Good call.

You might want to consider taking a look at the Green Hills Zone. A good example would be the ending of a match Gimpy had on it. Look it up on youtube.

Gimpyfish has not played this game 1/9th the amount of time I have.

It's a shame the new F-ZERO stage seems to be on the chopping block. I don't know why I think it's a shame, I'm not even a tournament player. Oh well, I'll still enjoy playing it with friends.

I agree.

 

[Soma]

I think they are refering to Smash DI.

 

[dmbrandon]

I think they are refering to Smash DI.

Looks like someone fell into the sar-charsm.

 

[LanKaN]

Don't forget about advanced slob picks, guys. If someone counterpicks Frigate Orpheon, then don't use Ness or Lucas. Stages shouldn't be banned because they cause disadvantage to certain characters. They should be banned if they GIVE certain characters extremely unfair advantages (such as Hyrule, New Pork City, etc).

 

[dmbrandon]

Don't forget about advanced slob picks, guys. If someone counterpicks Frigate Orpheon, then don't use Ness or Lucas. Stages shouldn't be banned because they cause disadvantage to certain characters. They should be banned if they GIVE certain characters extremely unfair advantages (such as Hyrule, New Pork City, etc).

Which is why stages with walls have to be banned. Pikachu can kill anyone easily. You'll understand when you play the game.