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MLG 2014 Feedback / Discussion

Cookiemonsta

Smash Ace
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
517
Location
St. Louis and Rolla, MO
Guys are we forgetting why most of those stages were banned in the first place? 1st of all, every stage that could physically harm you (Corneria, brinstar, etc) were banned because hella people thought it wasn't fair (fast fallers hated brinstar, but floaties didn't). People camped the s*** out of Kongo Jungle and will do it again to some other slow chars demise. Poke floats are balls for chars who need ledges. Cruise isn't that bad but it's balls for slow chars. Mute City f**** characters with bad recoveries...

Edit: I guess I'm just trying to say those stages were banned originally for good reason. Lets not reinvent the wheel here
 

Solid Jake

The Arcanum
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
3,303
Location
Farmington, CT
I try my best, GU.

As for teams, we are looking at doing teams for both titles. Teams has always been a side tournament at MLG - we will see.
 

caLviN-1260

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Messages
132
Location
WA, USA
NNID
caLviN-1260
zzz they really gotta host this out in Anaheim? California gets all the good tournaments. They should throw an east coast one too.
Anaheim is the biggest MLG event, so it'd probably be best if it was there
 

Solid Jake

The Arcanum
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
3,303
Location
Farmington, CT
For the time being it will just be MLG Anaheim. Assuming the event is successful I am sure Smash would be considered for future events. Aside from that we are looking at doing regional Qualifiers for seeding purposes. These events would be ran by the community.
 

caLviN-1260

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Messages
132
Location
WA, USA
NNID
caLviN-1260
I'm working closely with Prog on planning this event, don't worry :)
We need dat Wife doe


For the time being it will just be MLG Anaheim. Assuming the event is successful I am sure Smash would be considered for future events. Aside from that we are looking at doing regional Qualifiers for seeding purposes. These events would be ran by the community.
What community members would have the authority to set up the qualifiers? And you bet your buns this will be successful > :D
Brace yourself for MLG Smash fever.
 

Angry Drunk Chav

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
33
Please god don't add Brinstar... Atleast not to the regular brackets...

Like it's ********. We have to accept that this was DESIGNED as casual, and not all stages will meet our needs... C'mon...
 

Cookiemonsta

Smash Ace
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
517
Location
St. Louis and Rolla, MO
Well if they do add 1 or 2 ****ty stages, just strike or ban it. Most veterans aren't gonna pick anything "new" anyway...

Unless ur playing darkrain and you don't ban mute city :awesome:
 

prog

Priest of the Temple of Syrinx
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,155
Location
Brooklyn, NY
We need dat Wife doe




What community members would have the authority to set up the qualifiers? And you bet your buns this will be successful > :D
Brace yourself for MLG Smash fever.
I'm just helping Jake with planning and stuff, but better believe that Wife has been on the inside track.
 

Jace08

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,819
Location
Lawrence, KS
as somebody who became heavily involved with melee but whose only experience with MLG was listening to others talk about the "glory days," I'd just like to really thank Solid Jake and anyone else involved in trying to bring it back.

Seriously, thank you.
 

Massive

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
2,833
Location
Kansas City, MO
Neat.
Leaving wobbling legal seems like a huge mistake to me (wobble's EVO results clearly demonstrate that it is highly exploitable), but whatever.

Good to see melee getting some large-scale consideration.
 

Zoler

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
991
Location
Sweden
Neat.
Leaving wobbling legal seems like a huge mistake to me (wobble's EVO results clearly demonstrate that it is highly exploitable), but whatever.

Good to see melee getting some large-scale consideration.
Yeah, because ice climbers is basically better than fox with wobbling... :facepalm:
 

Problem2

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
2,318
Location
Crowley/Fort Worth, TX
NNID
Problem0
Wobbles was the only player that did that well with Wobbling. Maybe if there was an absolute outbreak of Ice Climber players and you had to use Wobbling to even make it into bracket, then we can talk about Wobbling being broken.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,545
Wobbling is a terrible gameplay mechanic that I don't want in my game.
That said, there isn't really any legitimate rationale to ban it. Ice Climbers are not the best character in the game with it, so any character (or a character with their full moveset available to them) better than ICs + Wobbling would need to be banned first. Just how it is, folks. Wish there was another way.
 

kingsharkboi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
12
Street Fighter player here (also mild umvc3 and kof13) if anyone cares....

I think we can all agree developers don't want infinites in their game, not even the P:M guys or whatever. I think the most recent (only?) exception is Capcom with SF4, since El Fuerte can do his RSF loop and its never been patched and it was part of his Trials anyways. And Fuerte still hasn't seen much success in the big picture, like ever! There are several fighting games with infinites that have survived in spite of them. In fact there are a ton of dirty techniques/combos that haven't killed quality games on their own. Yes, getting cleanly grabbed by the ICs leaves a salty feeling, and it leads to 1/4th of your game lost. But try getting so much as kicked in the foot by Magneto in UMVC3 (or even KOF13), and there goes 1/3rd of your game at high levels. I hope I'm not comparing apples & oranges!
I guess I'm for legal wobbling because I think to do otherwise would be to hinder the evolution of the game
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
2,599
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I think it leads to degenerative gameplay and forces the opponent to play a brawlesque game to avoid getting grabbed, so basically I don't think it's broken but banning it does not hinder evolution of the game (in fact it probably does the opposite) so I'm against it but it won't ruin the game, if wobbles returns we'll just watch him get platform camped for an hour cause everyone's really salty.
 

Habefiet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
442
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Neat.
Leaving wobbling legal seems like a huge mistake to me (wobble's EVO results clearly demonstrate that he is an excellent player), but whatever.

Good to see melee getting some large-scale consideration.
Why do people always ignore that Wobbles was easily one of the best active players even at Wobbling-banned events? Axe, who frequently makes people's top ten lists, has consistently stated his belief that Wobbles is a superior player.

1. Wobbles has an amazing record even with Wobbling banned. Know who he lost to at Apex 2012? PP and HBox (he beat M2K here by the way). Apex 2013? The two best Peach players in the world, Armada and Vwins. This is someone who was exclusively losing to god tier players and almost-god-tier Peach players prior to this event. He was ranked #1 in Arizona over Axe, who frequently makes peoples' Top 10 lists. Wobbles is a consistently incredible player. Even with Wobbling banned he was still arguably the next best player after the Big 5. It was not unrealistic to imagine him beating any top player (besides perhaps Armada).
2. People have an anti-Wobbling bias that causes them to discount the wins of ICs players with Wobbling on without giving the matter any further thought. I would bet all the liquid assets that I have that a metric ****ton of people would be whining if a Midwest ICs player beat the top solo Marth main in the world with Wobbling legal. Imagine Nintendude beating PewPewU with Wobbling on. Imagine the anti-Wobbling uproar that would ensue. Imagine your own nagging feelings that that win isn't "legit" because Wobbling was on. Then remember that Nintendude beat PewPewU with Wobbling illegal at TBH3 and feel ashamed.
3. No other ICs player placed significantly differently from normal at basically any Wobbling legal event than Wobbles.
4. These problems all arise in part from the frequent Wobbling ban causing no one to adequately prepare for it. Wobbles clearly went into Evo with some impressive Wobbling setups ready and with Wobbling as a key part of his game plan. It is not his fault that his opponents suck at avoiding Wobbling setups and mashing out of grabs. The fastest I think I've ever seen anyone mash out of a grab was Fly Amanita when he played Wobbles at KoC2 because Fly knew full damn well what was going to happen and started mashing like crazy rather than acting all shocked that Wobbles grabbed him and waiting to mash until the Wobbling was already in progress.
5. Saying that Wobbles' Evo results clearly show its exploitability is like saying that Mango's results show shine's exploitability or that Hungrybox's results show rest's expoitability. Start from the position that Wobbling isn't banned and that the metagame has adapted accordingly and then try to make a justification that any obviously non-broken maneuver is "exploitable."
6. Not liking some aspect of a character does not present a reasonable case for banning it, especially when they are (thus far) not broken as a consequence of it. ICs do not win national tournaments. Wobbles, playing the best he's ever played, using setups no one was prepared for, still did not win Evolution 2013. Mango 6-1'd him. In part because Wobbling isn't busted.
7. I hate it when someone says "all you have to do is get a grab." wut. All you have to do is get a grab... above a certain percent... with Nana nearby and in sync. It's not some magic all-consuming force that destroys every matchup in the game.

Wobbles himself has stated that if he were to change Melee or make a Melee sequel or something that he would not have Wobbling in it. But because he's an intelligent, well-reasoned human being, he knows that there is no justification for its illegality and that it is a tool he can keep in his arsenal and use to its fullest effect.

tl;dr I have never heard a reasonable argument for Wobbling being illegal. All I hear is that it's "against the spirit of the game" and people discounting the wins of ICs players with Wobbling legal, neither of which is valid.
 

soma ghost

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
307
Location
WNY
The only thing comparable to wobbleing is rest. all it takes is one move to connect on any part of the stage at low percent. After that one move connecting, you're required no more reads or reaction and your opponent loses a stock.
I think it is undoubtedly easier to land a grab than a rest though. especially with IC's amazing set ups (though these set ups take a great amount of skill)
If you get hit by a rest you probably missed your DI on the previous move. Or the jiggs is hard reading you and knows where you're going to be as well as you do. You can also DI the rest horizontally to get KOd sooner hence re-spawned sooner with a chance to hard punish.
All this being said I think it's obvious I don't care for wobbleing, but I do find it hard to ban. Ban or no ban, people shouldn't complain too much.
 

Engo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
865
Location
the dog,the dog he's at it again!
No way an already good ice climber player did even better with their character's best punish legal?Say it ain't so!

Next you're going to tell me that a good tennis player with a good quality racket will perform better than without it.
 

caLviN-1260

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Messages
132
Location
WA, USA
NNID
caLviN-1260
Although I can understand why someone would complain about wobbling, it's just another technique to get around and overcome. There's no reason to ban it from MLG or any other event.
 
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