Mewtwo Patch (Version 1.0.6[7]) Thread [Updated: May 1st]

[Yikarur]

Changes not yet in the OP (everything tested by me with side by side and animation comparison)
- Diddy Kongs Fsmash ending lag increased
- Ganondorf Fsmash ending lag decreased
- Sheik dtilt 7.5% -> 5%
- Diddy Kong's sideB Grab Attack Damage 12% -> 10%, Jump 10% -> 8%

OP Mistakes:
- Pacman's Grab is unchanged
- Diddy Kongs Monkey Flip Kick is unchanged

 

[Virgule]

Need a confirmation about Doc's Down-B: Someone claim he's got less lag on it, anyone can confirm ?

 

[Luigi player]

Alright, it seems you can just vector much better against moves that don't hit up in a higher angle than ~67°. Which basically means moves that hit more horizontally (like apparently Luigis outter downB hits) basically can be vectored much better so you survive to much higher % if you do it right. I didn't know you could vector Luigis downB so well that it almost has no knockback... (I tested against Mewtwo who can live a nonrage dthrow to downB up to 175% (maybe a few % more), and we all know how light Mewtwo is, so that's pretty weak...)

 

[Thinkaman]

I wouldn't mind Smashville if it's music wasn't so bloody boring. Town and City even has much better music.

I can also reasonably confirm Ganon's F-smash has ever so slightly less endlag. If you pause this vine, you can clearly see the effects are identical throughout the animation even though the Ganon on the right goes into shield faster.

Also @ Thinkaman , can you test Ganon's hitlag on his Forward, Back, and Up throws? Pre-patch all of these were one slow laggy hit followed by an actual throw. Now it seems the first hit has almost no hitlag.

So I've done maybe 50 simultaneous Ganon f-smashes across both 3DS versions and a patched Wii U game, and they are the same. I really want this change, but I'm just not seeing it on my end.

As for throw hitlag, I am seeing a teeny, tiny, but real difference.

@ Thinkaman , please end my placebo from last night.
Marth Fair is 36 frames and doesn't have an auto cancel in previous patch. His short hop is 41 frames.

I -think- he can fair later on his rise and auto cancel. Been buffering actions on landing without anything starting up still while in the air.
If this is true, I would guess it's now ACing at the same time as bair, which is frame 32

I'm not getting any difference in when in the jump I can get an AC.

 

[Themeatgrinder]

Out as in unavailable? Someone else mentioned that too, someone more to verify would be good here (Would get in on the action myself if it wasn't past midnight here)

No the Phantom is out as a meat shield 3 seconds longer, which also means we can't summon another one for 3 seconds

 

[CyberZixx]

I wish Nintendo would just release patch notes so we would not need to scramble like this. Shame about Luma getting Nerfed. Some characters could kill her in one hit already

 

[FooltheFlames]

Spin Attack does more damage and is more of a kill move now and you can combo off of dthrow more reliably now.

Well that's nice I guess!

It still makes no sense to patch Links jab lock but keep Foxes intact.
Why is Fox always entitled to be a good character in every Smash game?

And with characters now not being able to attack with an item in their hand, Link & Toon Link lose alot of follow ups and options.
This also hurts characters like Megaman, Robin, & etc... Overall, this change to the games engine seemed really unnecessary.
It was prolly specifically implemented to curb Diddy's banana game, but ended up hurting other characters as well

 

[Yonder]

Alright, it seems you can just vector much better against moves that don't hit up in a higher angle than ~67°. Which basically means moves that hit more horizontally (like apparently Luigis outter downB hits) basically can be vectored much better so you survive to much higher % if you do it right. I didn't know you could vector Luigis downB so well that it almost has no knockback... (I tested against Mewtwo who can live a nonrage dthrow to downB up to 175% (maybe a few % more), and we all know how light Mewtwo is, so that's pretty weak...)

I've had no problems killing with cyclone, seems the exact same...idk.

 

[Shaya]

- Ganondorf Fsmash ending lag decreased

So I've done maybe 50 simultaneous Ganon f-smashes across both 3DS versions and a patched Wii U game, and they are the same. I really want this change, but I'm just not seeing it on my end.

Fight to the death, please

 

[Thinkaman]

Changes not yet in the OP (everything tested by me with side by side and animation comparison)
- Diddy Kongs Fsmash ending lag increased CORRECT
- Ganondorf Fsmash ending lag decreased INCORRECT - DEBATED
- Sheik dtilt 7.5% -> 5% CORRECT
- Diddy Kong's sideB Grab Attack Damage 12% -> 10%, Jump 10% -> 8% CORRECT

OP Mistakes:
- Pacman's Grab is unchanged CORRECT
- Diddy Kongs Monkey Flip Kick is unchanged INCORRECT (but the op is still wrong--the now has three hitbox level: 14/12/10, from just 14/12)

If anyone can get side-by-side game versions showing any difference in Ganon f-throw, please confirm. I am adamant that I'm not getting anything.

Could this be a change that was slipped into 1.0.5?

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Mewtwo

jab frame 6
dash attack ~frame 10?
f-tilt frame 10?
d-tilt frame 6
u-tilt ???

f-smash frame 18
u-smash frame 9?
d-smash ~frame 20?

nair frame 7
fair frame 7

grab frame 8

Seems most of our numbers match up.

This is what I got from frame counting for Mewtwo's frame data:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wju2Vq5a4irDPLvwfxuOKVGxk/edit#gid=1937605207

Though I think I use the terms IASA and total frames differently. IASA I have for being able to act early (jab, charge cancel, air moves), total frames for ground moves is the first frame that you are able to shield.

Speaking of frame counting, going through Falco and it appears that he can cancel into his rapid jabs 2 frames earlier from jab 2 than before. Presumably getting a true combo from jab 2 to rapid more reliably.

 

[Da Man]

This is proberly minor to all and I do apologise if mentioned already in this thread but I think there are some new announcer quotes, I never recalled hearing Special Smash and Muti Man Smash in the respective modes in previous Wii U versions. Might be others but I haven't checked yet.

Also maybe its me but Mario can do a very minor cape glide off the stage now.

 

[Macchiato]

Did all of Lucy's moves get more damage? Also did it also increase KB or was it just damage.

 

[Thinkaman]

Did all of Lucy's moves get more damage? Also did it also increase KB or was it just damage.

The only one I saw directly was a very small damage increase on f-smash.

Damage increases affect knockback growth almost linearly.

 

[shapular]

Alright, it seems you can just vector much better against moves that don't hit up in a higher angle than ~67°. Which basically means moves that hit more horizontally (like apparently Luigis outter downB hits) basically can be vectored much better so you survive to much higher % if you do it right. I didn't know you could vector Luigis downB so well that it almost has no knockback... (I tested against Mewtwo who can live a nonrage dthrow to downB up to 175% (maybe a few % more), and we all know how light Mewtwo is, so that's pretty weak...)

I think vectoring is out and DI is back in. Here's the post I made earlier: http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-patch-1-0-3-wiiu-1-0-6-3ds-thread.398902/page-4#post-18988535 Would be good if someone else could test this on some more moves.

 

[Macchiato]

The only one I saw directly was a very small damage increase on f-smash.

Damage increases affect knockback growth almost linearly.

Fair, 2nd hit of dsmash, and Shield breaker were confirmed to be buffed and kay. Thanks

 

[Big O]

Fight to the death, please

I'm gonna have to side with Thinkaman on this one. Fsmash still has the same endlag as before. Tested it a few times and don't see any changes.

 

[flieskiller]

Can anybody compare the jumps height of Bowser Jr? I only have a Wii U with me and I feel like he jumps higher (especially the 1st jump), I'm not sure though.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'm gonna have to side with Thinkaman on this one. Fsmash still has the same endlag as before. Tested it a few times and don't see any changes.

Could this be a change that was slipped into 1.0.5?

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Something else that I noticed. Apparently you "auto-block" certain moves now.

By that I mean you block one hit of a multi-hit move, and let go of shield, you'll block the rest of the hits. But this only seems to apply to certain multi-hit moves.

So far I've noticed it being the case for Mega Man's Up Smash/Up-air/Metal Blade. I think some moves with landing hitboxes have this too (Bowser's bowser bomb for example, if you block the falling hit you have to block the landing hit). Easiest way to see this is to go into training, set the speed to 1/4, set the CPU to control, hold shield, and have Mega Man use Up Smash on the shielding CPU. Then let go of shield after the first hit connects. All of the hits will be blocked.

This isn't the case for all multi-hit moves though (Mega Man's b-air works as it did before, you get hit if you drop shield before all the hits are finished, same with Yoshi's D-air), so I don't know what they did to get this to happen.

Apologies if this has already been noted.

 

[Yikarur]

ah interesting that they added a weak hitbox. With "unchanged" I was simply implying the data in the OP was wrong though.
Thanks for clarification.
I re-tested Ganondorfs fsmash, I'd say no less ending lag. I did 1/4 in Training Mode, recorded both screens with my phone and played the video in 1/2 speed. It's simultanous. No change.

 

[S_B]

Bowsercide is absolutely disgusting now. They REALLY should've just fixed the bugs, let Bowser die 2nd and not jump out of it.

If you get ahead by a stock, gg...

 

[Big O]

@ Thinkaman , I doubt it was a stealth change in 1.05 because I did all my frame data testing on the Wii U 1.02 patch for Ganon. I am getting the same results in 1.06 as I did in the 1.02 patch. IIRC 1.05 was a 3DS only patch right?

 

[Thinkaman]

Mewtwo's confusion reflect ratio is x1.4. I got this wrong earlier.

 

[Shaya]

And thus Yikarur and the Holy Japanese Ganon Association were all put to the gallows.

 

[Luigi player]

I've had no problems killing with cyclone, seems the exact same...idk.

yeah it might be the same its just always been DIable like that

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Something else that I noticed. Apparently you "auto-block" certain moves now.

By that I mean you block one hit of a multi-hit move, and let go of shield, you'll block the rest of the hits. But this only seems to apply to certain multi-hit moves.

So far I've noticed it being the case for Mega Man's Up Smash/Up-air/Metal Blade. I think some moves with landing hitboxes have this too (Bowser's bowser bomb for example, if you block the falling hit you have to block the landing hit). Easiest way to see this is to go into training, set the speed to 1/4, set the CPU to control, hold shield, and have Mega Man use Up Smash on the shielding CPU. Then let go of shield after the first hit connects. All of the hits will be blocked.

This isn't the case for all multi-hit moves though (Mega Man's b-air works as it did before, you get hit if you drop shield before all the hits are finished, same with Yoshi's D-air), so I don't know what they did to get this to happen.

Apologies if this has already been noted.

I noticed this for Link's grounded up B in All-Star mode. The CPU would powershield the first hit and the rest of the attack wouldn't affect them. Did this not happen before the patch?

 

[Bribery]

Kirby's Up Smash and Down Smash have stronger KO power, confirmed by @Poupoko on the Kirby boards: http://smashboards.com/threads/kirby-1-0-6-patch-notes.399077/#post-18996372

On Mario in the center of FD on the 3DS, Up Smash KOs at 105% (116% previously) and Down Smash KOs at 114% (119% previously).

 

[Teshie U]

Something else that I noticed. Apparently you "auto-block" certain moves now.

By that I mean you block one hit of a multi-hit move, and let go of shield, you'll block the rest of the hits. But this only seems to apply to certain multi-hit moves.

So far I've noticed it being the case for Mega Man's Up Smash/Up-air/Metal Blade. I think some moves with landing hitboxes have this too (Bowser's bowser bomb for example, if you block the falling hit you have to block the landing hit). Easiest way to see this is to go into training, set the speed to 1/4, set the CPU to control, hold shield, and have Mega Man use Up Smash on the shielding CPU. Then let go of shield after the first hit connects. All of the hits will be blocked.

This isn't the case for all multi-hit moves though (Mega Man's b-air works as it did before, you get hit if you drop shield before all the hits are finished, same with Yoshi's D-air), so I don't know what they did to get this to happen.

Apologies if this has already been noted.

Megaman's upsmash was always and autoblock, but if they are forcing your to block shieldbreaking combos things are going to get silly soon.

 

[Piford]

I've been looking and I think Link's Quick Fire Bow custom has a nerf to the distance it goes. But I might be wrong because I'm comparing a 3DS and Wii U.

 

[Blobface]

So I've done maybe 50 simultaneous Ganon f-smashes across both 3DS versions and a patched Wii U game, and they are the same. I really want this change, but I'm just not seeing it on my end.
As for throw hitlag, I am seeing a teeny, tiny, but real difference.

Ah well. Ganon's biggest buff in this patch was Sheik's B-air nerf anyway.

 

[haxfactory]

Something else that I noticed. Apparently you "auto-block" certain moves now.

By that I mean you block one hit of a multi-hit move, and let go of shield, you'll block the rest of the hits. But this only seems to apply to certain multi-hit moves.

So far I've noticed it being the case for Mega Man's Up Smash/Up-air/Metal Blade. I think some moves with landing hitboxes have this too (Bowser's bowser bomb for example, if you block the falling hit you have to block the landing hit). Easiest way to see this is to go into training, set the speed to 1/4, set the CPU to control, hold shield, and have Mega Man use Up Smash on the shielding CPU. Then let go of shield after the first hit connects. All of the hits will be blocked.

This isn't the case for all multi-hit moves though (Mega Man's b-air works as it did before, you get hit if you drop shield before all the hits are finished, same with Yoshi's D-air), so I don't know what they did to get this to happen.

Apologies if this has already been noted.

If this is the case then 64 style shield stun is in the game.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Can someone test whether Mario has in general gotten lighter? There were two separate tests done by others that suggests it was Mario that got nerfed, and not the moves that got buffed; that it wasn't the moves that kill faster or cause more knockback to mario's shield, its just that mario got lighter.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Something else that I noticed. Apparently you "auto-block" certain moves now.

By that I mean you block one hit of a multi-hit move, and let go of shield, you'll block the rest of the hits. But this only seems to apply to certain multi-hit moves.

So far I've noticed it being the case for Mega Man's Up Smash/Up-air/Metal Blade. I think some moves with landing hitboxes have this too (Bowser's bowser bomb for example, if you block the falling hit you have to block the landing hit). Easiest way to see this is to go into training, set the speed to 1/4, set the CPU to control, hold shield, and have Mega Man use Up Smash on the shielding CPU. Then let go of shield after the first hit connects. All of the hits will be blocked.

This isn't the case for all multi-hit moves though (Mega Man's b-air works as it did before, you get hit if you drop shield before all the hits are finished, same with Yoshi's D-air), so I don't know what they did to get this to happen.

Apologies if this has already been noted.

I won't be at home until later tonight, can you confirm if this is true for DK's spinning kong on the ground, or some of Pikachu's moves?

 

[Thinkaman]

Can someone test whether Mario has in general gotten lighter? There were two separate tests done by others that suggests it was Mario that got nerfed, and not the moves that got buffed; that it wasn't the moves that kill faster or cause more knockback to mario's shield, its just that mario got lighter.

If this were the case, we'be be see waaaaay more reports of changes.

What's happening is that people are dumb, and not accounting for rage, stale moves, and separate version blastzones.

 

[Chukkaque]

The only correct change in this list is the Lucina f-smash buff.

I tested this first hand with another person, all I mentioned is what now happens.

A Fsmash Marth tipper on edge used to kill at 40%, not 20%.

Also Ness Bthrow and Uair killed much more quickly then they do now.

 

[S_B]

Referencing the last patch vs data I noticed today.
I also have only tested a few of these characters:

Bowser:
Appears to have more knock back on attacks

This was a mistake by someone who didn't realize that 3DS FD and Wii U FD have different blast zones.

 

[Chukkaque]

Guys I'm having a problem with the Mii outfits in Smash. This morning before I head off to school I bought the Proto Man outfit and I got the 3DS and Wii U deal, and it was on my 3DS. I got a little message after (assuming it was explaining how to get it to Wii U now) but I skipped it by accident because of me being in a hurry. So, long story short I bought the small bundle for 3DS and Wii U but I'm not sure what to do to get it to the other console now. Do I have to go somewhere on the Wii U eShop?

Sorry about the double post from the other thread, I just realized I put it on the wrong place lel

You need to go to your download history on the 3ds eshop to get your wii u code.

 

[MastaEddieV]

i really think up-b got a distance buff, can someone else check as well

 

[Thinkaman]

I tested this first hand with another person, all I mentioned is what now happens.

A Fsmash Marth tipper on edge used to kill at 40%, not 20%.

Also Ness Bthrow and Uair killed much more quickly then they do now.

I have both versions in front of me, side-by-side. I've been people they are imagining changes they are sure of all day.

You're imagining it.