MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy

[TGYDK]

I find this tech VERY hard to pull off. i've gotten it once out of about 50 tries, and the time i did it i barly pulled it off D:

 

[Saltix]

Shadowlink, can this be done in the air?

Mookie Rah, I understand it, and I want to give a rebuttal, but honestly, this isn't that important to me. MK isn't my main or even in my Top 3. I just don't want this to get banned :/

 

[Veggi]

Can anyone try setting up smash to a d-pad or something to see if this is any easier?

 

[Dojo]

Brawl is the biggest disappointment in video game history.

Whine in the melee forums. Dont bring that nonsense here.


Compiling an argument in not banning this technique isn't gonna work. The fact that we as a people would have to use common sense instead of completely scripted regulations, and that people will at one time or another use those rules to abuse the technique is going to ban this technique one way or another.

It's gay but whatever, it was a nice find either way.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Dont think it would be improbable for this to get banned
I think 3-5 seconds would be fine for limits. Just look at the timer when they do it, and if they go too over, pause or something

 

[Dastrn]

And nobody answered my question of who goes by the smashboards ban rules yet :[

The majority of Smash tournaments around the US are run by people who post on smashboards and are educated in the standard rulesets posted by the SBR. Those that do not are generally referred to by smashboards folk as "scrub" and have poor attendance.

 

[shadowlink3]

you can not use this to recover or the air, has to be on the stage like bowsers koopa claw hopping.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Brawl is the biggest disappointment in video game history.

Just because it has a glitch does not mean its a disappointment. Stop trolling.

 

[MookieRah]

Mookie Rah, I understand it, and I want to give a rebuttal, but honestly, this isn't that important to me. MK isn't my main or even in my Top 3. I just don't want this to get banned :/

If it isn't important to you, why are you against the banning of it? Also, if you can't give me a rebuttal, how are you going to defend against what I've said about why it should be banned? Come on guys, so far you have yet to address the concerns I brought up.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I think it should be banned but I think it should be allowed at least as a star kill tech skillish display, as long as they retract the tech when the player dies.
(I know its hard to monitor this, but its just so cool lol)

 

[Vyse]

What.

The.

****.

O.O

Incredible. Absolutely incredible. Ban or not, I want to learn this just to use it in friendlies. In all seriousness, it would be hard to regulate it against stalling. To regulate it would be to analyze its use on a case by case basis. -_-

 

[Pierce7d]

I'm with you Mookie.

Also, on a GC controller, you can't use the Dpad to smash.

Also, I still can't do it (wtf)

I don't suck at Brawl, so I'm not sure what my problem is. I'm holding Down after performing Down B without releasing down and spamming Up on the C Stick as I perform my dimension cape. I am pushing Up probably twice a second or so, maybe faster, maybe slower. I even put it in 1/4 speed in training mode, and can't do it which believes me to believe that I'm doing it wrong, since I doubt anyone can push the Cstick 4 times faster than I'm doing so at a consistent rate, but I've seen the Youtube post so it can be done . . .

Can someone re-explain how to do it please?

 

[shadowlink3]

dont press up on the control stick at all, always down

 

[Omni]

how about we stop assuming this or that and just leave it alone and see how it effects the smash scene before declaring it something that it may or may not be

if it's something that greatly effects the scene, no one will have a problem with its ban

if it's something that doesn't effect the scene, no one will have a problem with its allowance

 

[Quez256]

All I was mentioning is the tendency for people to look for the easy way out when confronted with something; rather than blanket-ban a tech, try spending your energy into finding a rational solution instead of sinking to a half-*** & effortless one. People have spent countless hours on the forums doing nothing but *****ing about how something is "broken", "cheap", or "unfair", instead of growing a pair, and finding their own way to deal with it. This isn't just limited to Brawl, even gaming as a whole, heck, society, in a nutshell, works along similar lines, and it has the same tendency for chaos to ensue for the same reasons.

/end rant -.-

 

[shadowlink3]

lol people want to win, people will abuse, people can be stupid. it happens.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

You may have just opened up a can of worms.

 

[MookieRah]

how about we stop assuming this or that and just leave it alone and see how it effects the smash scene before declaring it something that it may or may not be

This isn't the same as a lot of problems that have hit the community before it. This is something that renders MK invincible for an indefinite amount of time. Period. Who cares if it's hard to do? Somebody will learn how to do it for pretty much as long as he is willing. If you try to limit it via rules then it becomes hard to manage for a TO. So not only is it something that is blatantly over powered (considering he is invincible indefinitely O_o) it's also something that is impossible for a TO to keep track of. I for one don't enjoy chaos at a tournament...

How the hell is this not something to outright ban? What more do you need?

 

[cman]

Honestly i agree with Quez. What if this turns out being like the custom combo thing desribed by sirlin? Its potentially possible that there is a counter or something that leaves meta helpless for a bit, turning it into a high risk high reward type move. Banning so early is premature in my opinion.

 

[JhMS]

Wow and all the meta things keep going...
But seriously,this is an obvious ban.

 

[MookieRah]

What if this turns out being like the custom combo thing desribed by sirlin?

Except only Meta can use it.

Its potentially possible that there is a counter or something that leaves meta helpless for a bit, turning it into a high risk high reward type move.

Except for the fact that you become invincible and you can move around? How does that leave you open for anything? You are ****ing INVINCIBLE, or at the very least unable to be hit.

 

[Thirtyfour]

time to sub space.

 

[CryoStasis]

ok First of all Hi guys!!
ok to business

Invincibility: Yes MK is invincible during this time. However with a time limit this shouldn't be too much of a problem, much like Ledge Stalling Correct? Invincible but you know you have a time limit.

Invisibility: Yes, MK is also invisible during this time. However, with both the time limit and the fact that you can see the camera shift in MKs moving direction, this shouldn't be a problem. Plus, it was also pointed out to me that u can "feel" MK go past you while he is doing this

Time: Ahh the time problem. Well first it shouldn't be a problem to tell if someone is stalling.
HOWEVER, since you wanna go by the Approximate time, lets do that. I don't know who said we needed a stopwatch but you don't. You can just use the Match timer. You won't need a TO for that. And it is not hard to look at the time and play the match. I tested this myself and you can see the time without a worry. All you need to use is an approximate time like 3 secs then you are fine. The non-MK player can watch the game and time for a few seconds and then play will resume. Also, maybe we could throw in the USE LIMIT, but i was just tossing that idea around.

Please keep in mind that i am not trying to say "Oh i love this tech i love MK!!!" etc. etc.
I don't play MK, heck I don't even like him, I am just trying to give reasons as to why this should not be completely banned, so that people can have somethings to think about before they bring out the ban hammer.
Thank you for reading.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Its potentially possible that there is a counter or something that leaves meta helpless for a bit, turning it into a high risk high reward type move. Banning so early is premature in my opinion.

It IS going to be banned, and that's not an opinion. This "high risk high reward type move" bull **** you speak of, is stupid. The only potential "risk" (if any) would be, being a ******* and doing it off the stage, which would be entirely your fault. The "reward" would be winning a match. No need for the adjective. Some idiot is going to ruin it for all the other MK's players. Just wait.

 

[Jartravious]

MookieRah and Yuma are right please imagine a large tournament and if this is allowed a lot of players will most likely use meta knight its now possibly to regulate realistically

 

[shadowlink3]

lol at the ban hammer! is that d3's hammer?

 

[cman]

It IS going to be banned, and that's not an opinion. This "high risk high reward type move" bull **** you speak of, is stupid. The only potential "risk" (if any) would be, being a ******* and doing it off the stage, which would be entirely your fault. The "reward" would be winning a match. No need for the adjective. Some idiot is going to ruin it for all the other MK's players. Just wait.

How did you become a debater? I said that IF a counter were to be discovered, it could turn the move into a high risk high reward move. Granted, the likeliness of a counter is very small, but did you ever think this would be possible either? I'm merely saying that banning it before a match is even played is too early.

 

[MookieRah]

much like Ledge Stalling Correct? Invincible but you know you have a time limit.

Ledge Stalling, even in melee, wasn't perfect. There were points in which you could take advantage of it. It was a very safe option if you were doing it perfectly, but it didn't render you invincible. Also, in Brawl, the ledge stall is even worse, as you really aren't that safe from the ledge.

Time: Ahh the time problem. Well first it shouldn't be a problem to tell if someone is stalling.

Oh, so it shouldn't be a problem? Well, what if two people were playing a match, and nobody was watching them. What if then the Meta decided to stall, and went over the time. The opponent notices it, pauses the game (if pausing is even allowed) and then gets a TO. The TO obviously didn't see the match, so there is no way he can give an answer, and if he does he is a HORRIBLE TO. Basically, staff from the tournament have to be pulled away to deal with this issue.

You can just use the Match timer.

What if nobody is around to monitor it? Would you divert your attention away from the match to take note of the time?

People seem to think that tournaments are heavily staffed and it would be easy to catch this if someone cheated...

I said that IF a counter were to be discovered

How can you counter something that renders you invulnerable and allows you to move around indefinitely?

 

[Saltix]

How do I become a debater? :[

 

[Taiki]

This deserves an outright ban as the mods have said. This move is too rediculous, invincibilty, invisibility, movement, and humanly possible at x1 speed. If we leave it to gauge it's effect on the competitive scene, TOs will ban it outright on their own or Metaknights will win every tourny with stall tactics. As to those claiming you should be able to use it as a mindgame. It's incredibly hard to limit this, it's character specific unlike wavedashing, and you can throw an attack with decent knockback out of it making you virtually untouchable and able to continue to rack up damage then continue to stall. It's just not worth leaving in the competitive scene.

EDIT: I claim this page in the name of King D's banhammer :D

 

[JonBeBonanza]

How did you become a debater? I said that IF a counter were to be discovered, it could turn the move into a high risk high reward move. Granted, the likeliness of a counter is very small, but did you ever think this would be possible either? I'm merely saying that banning it before a match is even played is too early.

So just cause i am a Debater, i have to debate in everyone of my posts? Would it help if my name was yellow?


It's all common sense, theres nothing to debate about. Me personally i would give it leeway before saying anything, but this, this is too much.

 

[cman]

How can you counter something that renders you invulnerable and allows you to move around indefinitely?

Eh I don't know. Thats someone else's job to figure out. Maybe there is some glitch that lets them get grabbed out of it or something.

But to my main point, have any matches actually been played with this thing allowed? Does anyone actually KNOW how it affects games, or is this all just theorycrafting, as i suspect? At least play a few serious games and try to figure out a way around it before insta-banhammering it. They don't need to be tourny games, but test it first, and with the expectation that there is a way around it.

 

[CryoStasis]

Mookie, looking at the match timer for a couple secs doesnt require your full attention.
You can see the numbers through your peripheral vision well enough. Plus remember they
cannot attack you until they reappear. so you can shield or dodge during the duration of the move if you wish. Using the match timer is not difficult.

 

[unit182]

This should be called ghosting , also it has amazing mindgame potential. It could also be called Demon caping.

 

[Quez256]

This isn't the same as a lot of problems that have hit the community before it. This is something that renders MK invincible for an indefinite amount of time. Period. Who cares if it's hard to do? Somebody will learn how to do it for pretty much as long as he is willing. If you try to limit it via rules then it becomes hard to manage for a TO. So not only is it something that is blatantly over powered (considering he is invincible indefinitely O_o) it's also something that is impossible for a TO to keep track of. I for one don't enjoy chaos at a tournament...

How the hell is this not something to outright ban? What more do you need?

If you read my earlier posts I made a reference to other potential AT's like laserlocking, infinites, & chaingrabs, which, to the best of my knowledge, burns time, renders you invincible; from the perspective that you cannot be attacked for the duration, and can be used for stalling purposes. If you're going ballistic about this, at least take a second look at what I've mentioned here before banning a tech that HAS NOT even been used in competitive play yet.

P.S: I am not against any of the other techs I listed, it just seems reasonable to judge them equally based on what they can/cannot do.

 

[metalmonstar]

The move itself has to be limited or banned because it can be used as an insta win tactic that will degenerate the whole competitive scene.

However the move is near impossible to limit.
1. Time limit, the problem with this is people will just go to the full length of the time stop and then start up again. What if someone goes just a bit over? Do they get disqualified? Does that mean the organizer has to watch every match that has a metaknight in it with a stopwatch?
So it can still be used to stall with a time limit and monitoring it is impracticable for the tournament organizer.

2, A number of usage restrictions, well this is just silly because they really only have to use it once to win.

3. Percentage restriction, doesn't apply in this situation

4. A combination of the three, still impractical for tournament organizers and a real hassle to sit down and come up with what is fair and what isn't. Also it can still be abused just a little harder.

Pretty much we have crossed out anyway possible way to limit this. The move isn't unbroken just because we can't effectively limit it so we naturally have to move to the next step, banning it. How do we do that? If someone uses the move and starts spamming the cstick then they are disqualified. It is that simple.

The move warrants a ban and can be banned. It fits all necessary criteria.

The reason we can't wait is because someone will show up at a tournament and use it to win. No other player unless they use this tactic will be able to win if they lose the lead at any point. It would be wrong to allow this until it happens.

I could practice this and go to a nice 70+ tournament and use this to win. Better players will lose unless they follow suit. I will either end up with some nice cash or the whole tournament will turn into a metaknight fest.

Some of the other infinites are allowed because they don't break the game. Dedede can't infinite everyone in fact their are characters he can't even chaingrab. Ice climbers can do it to everyone but it is situational and the same tactics of preventing being wobbled can be used to be kept from being infinited. The game has yet and will probably never degenerate into just ice climbers being viable.

Stalling in many situations is pretty easy to enforce. I mean if jigglypuff hops off the stage and then does rising pounds all the way back up then it is pretty obvious the person is trying to stall. There is no real reason for the person to even be in that position. Sonic also, why would a sonic be constantly homing attacking the stage? If a person flys from one ledge to the other and back, what purpose does that have? Why couldn't they have just stayed at the original ledge they gained no ground.

 

[Amide]

Anyone know the best way to do this? I can't keep it going for long...

 

[Taiki]

If you want another way to describe the utmost of imbalance and the immediate call of the banhammer. If it can in no way be stopped in a teams match it should be banned in competitive play.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

How did you become a debater? I said that IF a counter were to be discovered, it could turn the move into a high risk high reward move. Granted, the likeliness of a counter is very small, but did you ever think this would be possible either? I'm merely saying that banning it before a match is even played is too early.

Ask any MK, (well the smart ones), and they will tell you that it's going to get banned. Maybe not now, but it will.

 

[Doctor X]

Ban it for stalling, otherwise it doesn't seem like a problem. There are plenty of stalling bans in the smash scene already, I don't see how this is any different just because it's technically "perfect."

Edit: Those who haven't tried it, seriously do so. You have to hit the c-stick like 7 times a second.I don't think it's humanly possible to keep this up for a period of time long enough to really effect the integrity of a match.