Match-Up Discussion #6! Mr. Game and Watch

[A2ZOMG]

Oh wells.

Basically it's not worse than that though. =/

 

[_Kadaj_]

Yea that's always good.

Look at the bright side you go even with mk

 

[jmanup85]

N-air, U-throw, Up-B, and F-air are much more important to G&W in this matchup. Also D-air offstage.

Oh, and be really careful when air dodging above G&W. That can get you Up-smashed if he reads where you land.

i agree with U-throw and Up-b since Marth below anyone isnt a good idea but F-air i just dont see as a big threat but to be fair i dont play G&W alot since my friend who mains him doesnt really play alot especially since SSF2THD came out

 

[3xSwords]

Ok people let's let this die now.

 

[Steel]

these threads are always open discussion, no harm in bumping them

 

[_Kadaj_]

Bumpity bump bump

 

[Remzi]

Regarding the "bucket braking," from what I've seen it's not likely to save G&W very often. It shouldn't change the matchup ratio at all.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well, none of Marth's attacks have all that much knockback unless he tippers them. Which is pretty situational.

Hence why Bucket Braking should be particularly useful against him. I mean all G&W has to do for the most part to survive is make it difficult for Marth to hit G&W in the direction of the nearest ledge.

 

[BarDulL]

I think it's 70:30, to be honest.

 

[feardragon64]

It'll save G&W in that small percent area during where his aerial alone wouldn't have saved him and he doesn't have enough time to aerial and pull out the bucket. Bengals already said it but ya. It's a neat trick but it won't happen THAT often.

Bardull: Love to hear why. Are we overlooking something? o.o

 

[_Kadaj_]

Your playing the wrongs marths then lol jk

I usually tipper everything

 

[Remzi]

Well, none of Marth's attacks have all that much knockback unless he tippers them. Which is pretty situational.

Hence why Bucket Braking should be particularly useful against him. I mean all G&W has to do for the most part to survive is make it difficult for Marth to hit G&W in the direction of the nearest ledge.

lol tippers are not situational if the Marth knows how to space at all...

 

[feardragon64]

Well, none of Marth's attacks have all that much knockback unless he tippers them. Which is pretty situational.

Hence why Bucket Braking should be particularly useful against him. I mean all G&W has to do for the most part to survive is make it difficult for Marth to hit G&W in the direction of the nearest ledge.

lol tippers are not situational if the Marth knows how to space at all...

Unless you're just talking about fsmash as a kill move then apply what bengals said ^

Tipper fsmash isn't marth's only kill options. He can use dolphin slash, dsmash, usmash, bair, untipper fsmash, sweetspot of utilt, etc.
Of course none of them are really safe on block but they're not hard to tipper >>

And like I said before, the bucket braking will only be useful at small percent intervals where he has enough time to do an aerial and do the bucket. That small percent interval will be (not exactly but probably around) 5%-10% large. Any lower than the interval and he could have survived with just an aerial. Any higher and he won't have time to pull out an aerial AND the bucket.

 

[Steel]

I think it's 70:30, to be honest.

i think it's 65:35, but i can't argue against the general opinion of the community.

 

[Punishment Divine]

From what I've seen the only real instance Bucket Braking will help GnW is like, if you're both on the left side of FD and you send him right with an fsmash or something, or if you're on a high ceiling stage like Japes and you usmash him. There needs to be a lot of distance, from what I've seen at least, for it to be applied.

Could someone correct me if I'm wrong, though?

 

[Remzi]

Yea I wasn't talking about fsmash. Fear is right about the small window of percents where it can be used.

I personally think its fine at 60:40.

 

[BarDulL]

Well, no matter how a G&W approaches, Marth can Up+B out of shield.

Does no one realize how much power Up+B has? You can Up+B out of shield in the middle of G&W's bair (the multi hitbox turtle, aka his best spacing tool, yes, you can do it), his fair, his dair, his nair, and his uair (if they are crazy). The only thing they can really do while trying to approach is to try and grab you. Otherwise, he can't approach Marth at all.

Easy kills:
-------------------
Marth's Up+B -kills- G&W easily because he's a really light character. If a G&W tries to even tap your shield while at 100%, he's probably going to die (obviously dependent on where he is at the time, but he's dead if he's anywhere near the ledge and gets hit by it.)

Another bad thing going for G&W is that he can be grab released => fair tip, and it will kill at higher percents.

Any of Marth's smash attacks will kill G&W at 100%-ish (location dependent)
-------------------
Random info: Marth can fthrow ==> stutter step ==> fsmash tip from 0-4%
-------------------
When I'm playing this match up, I've never felt like I was being out spaced. Just with fairs, keeping up the aggression, punishing G&W when he is trying to get back onto the stage (even gimping him with counter if he tries to parachute from below the stage), I really feel like 70:30 to me, and I've fought plenty of good G&W's.

Edited lots of stuff.

Edit2: It's hard to articulate and express my thoughts on this particular match-up. Maybe I'll try and get a video up that will show what I'm talking about.

 

[BarDulL]

Sorry for double posting!

http://www.getyourtournament.com/multimedia/labels/bardull.html

I have some horrible videos on here, he always gets my worst matches XD

Anyway, watch round 1 of "Oxnard - Gishnak vs. BarDulL"

Even though this is kind of old, this is usually how the match-up goes for me.

Note: The pause is because my controller was acting up.

 

[∫unk]

lol gishnak get raaaaaaped

i don't think he falls for the up b so easily now we'll see on friday

i'm teaming with him this weekend :D

 

[BarDulL]

lol gishnak get raaaaaaped

i don't think he falls for the up b so easily now we'll see on friday

i'm teaming with him this weekend :D

He wasn't "falling" for it. He just couldn't do anything about it.

If you mean he doesn't approach Marth anymore, I guess that's a possibility. But I'm pretty sure Marth outspaces G&W most of the time, regardless if G&W chooses to approach Marth or not.

Marth's only really in trouble against G&W when he's trying to get back onto the stage, which applies to about all of his match ups anyway. :X

 

[∫unk]

i think he was telling me about retreating b-airs

making me go to him

but i dunno why i would chase him

anyway whats the best thing to do if they somehow get inside and are right next to you

 

[BarDulL]

i think he was telling me about retreating b-airs

making me go to him

but i dunno why i would chase him

anyway whats the best thing to do if they somehow get inside and are right next to you

There are a number of things I would do depending on the stage, situation, %, stock, time left, the color of his character, ect.

There are too many variables to really say. Technically, I could get away with doing anything as long as I knew it was going to benefit me in the end (mindgames.)

Ex: He just stands next to me and does nothing, I drop shield, take my time spacing myself, and I fsmash tip him while he DIs the wrong way.

Edit: Ok, it was a horrible example, but I think I got my point accross.

At least give me a situation to work with. "being next to me" is way too broad.

 

[∫unk]

k let's say he d-airs and lands behind me and i didn't have enough time to get out a u-tilt to beat it so i'm shielding

i don't want to reverse up b cause he can perfect shield it now

stage is neutral in the middle he's at mid percent

 

[BarDulL]

k let's say he d-airs and lands behind me and i didn't have enough time to get out a u-tilt to beat it so i'm shielding

i don't want to reverse up b cause he can perfect shield it now

stage is neutral in the middle he's at mid percent

I would probably either roll away from him or I would drop shield and dash away.

But, for the record, I have never even considered trying to drop shield to u-tilt on G&W's dair (and I mean this in the worst sense, it's just not safe.) I would have most likely reverse up+b'd as soon as possible to punish.

 

[∫unk]

alright thanks :D

havok was telling me u-tilt is amazing against gw cause it beats d-air and kills at ~100% if you tip and lasts a long time

i was skeptical too ><

 

[Hylian]

I think it's 70:30, to be honest.

This. Allthough I think it's 65-35.

Marth isn't fun for GW .

 

[BarDulL]

alright thanks :D

havok was telling me u-tilt is amazing against gw cause it beats d-air and kills at ~100% if you tip and lasts a long time

i was skeptical too ><

I assumed he was landing behind the Marth with the dair, so he wasn't coming from directly above you.

I don't know about trying to u-tilt G&W's dair in general...I would rather Up+B out of shield and take the safe way out.

Edit: sounds like some testing may be in order.

 

[_Kadaj_]

lol you use ic's for marth dont you hylian

 

[Pierce7d]

ROFL. No one even mentioned Marth has grab release to Fair on G&W too. This match-up just sucks for Game and Watch.

Also, if my opponent lands behind me after a laggy move, they usually shield. I often like to dash behind them, instead of away, and use Dancing Blade. 95% of the time, my opponent shield drops when I dash behind them, and use some move that loses to Dancing Blade's frame 4, rapid attack, transcended priority rapeness.

 

[Hylian]

ROFL. No one even mentioned Marth has grab release to Fair on G&W too. This match-up just sucks for Game and Watch.

Also, if my opponent lands behind me after a laggy move, they usually shield. I often like to dash behind them, instead of away, and use Dancing Blade. 95% of the time, my opponent shield drops when I dash behind them, and use some move that loses to Dancing Blade's frame 4, rapid attack, transcended priority rapeness.

No one mentioned it because it doesn't work . G&W can Up-B out of it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Thank you Hylian.

 

[Pierce7d]

Oh rly? Please excuse me, because there are ZERO G&W mains in NJ. There is a small possibility that I might be the best G&W in Jersey, rofl.

Even so, I like a position where I force G&W to UpB while already airborne. He's pretty easy pickings in the air, and can't even UpB again. Sorry to be a broken record, but Dair is telegraphed, countered, yadda, yadda, and G&W loses the range war.

 

[_Kadaj_]

We've went over this enough

Let's go over kirby or something

 

[Emblem Lord]

*Tastes Pierces arrogance in the air.

*Backhands him

*shakes my head

Sorry, Hylian. It's my fault. I thought I raised the boy better then this.

 

[Darxmarth23]

*Tastes Pierces arrogance in the air.

*Backhands him

*shakes my head

Lulz EL, you should be a smash debator.

join the pink crew.

 

[∫unk]

LOL EL

toooooo good

 

[Remzi]

lmfao EL

Pierce should be ashamed

 

[_Kadaj_]

*sigh* this thread................

 

[BarDulL]

No one mentioned it because it doesn't work . G&W can Up-B out of it.

I've done this in tournament a couple times, so I assumed it was inescapable. HOWEVER...

Taking into consideration that G&W's Up+B will allow him to escape the grab release, he's still going to have a hard time getting back down should the G&W in question opt to do so.

Long story short: It can still be advantageous to do it.

 

[Pierce7d]

*Tastes Pierces arrogance in the air.

*Backhands him

*shakes my head

Sorry, Hylian. It's my fault. I thought I raised the boy better then this.

Oh rly? Please excuse me, because there are ZERO G&W mains in NJ. There is a small possibility that I might be the best G&W in Jersey, rofl.

^this = sarcasm, not G&W. It was basically my way of saying that my G&W experience is virtually none, and I was emphasising that fact that no one around here plays him.

Oh, and not that this counts for TOO much, but when I was fighting Neo today on WiFi using G&W, he was able to Fair me everytime except once, even when I used reverse UpB. However, the UpB would still blow him upwards. So, I'm not sure if I was entire false on this claim. Course, considering you fight Ro_R all the time, you probably know what you're talking about Hylian.

*ducks head and walks ashamedly out of the thread.