Oblivion129
Smash Lord
Isn't the Side-b buff a really good thing? If your opponent is in shield, you can delay the next hit a little longer, making it harder for your opponent to know if it's safe to drop shield yet.
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If you side b their shield, they can just roll behind you and because of the added 5 frames, its harder to punish.Isn't the Side-b buff a really good thing? If your opponent is in shield, you can delay the next hit a little longer, making it harder for your opponent to know if it's safe to drop shield yet.
It's a mixed bag. Personally I feel it is a straight up nerf due to not being able to use first hit DB into dolphin slash. That and shieldbreaker mindgames and mixups are gone.Isn't the Side-b buff a really good thing? If your opponent is in shield, you can delay the next hit a little longer, making it harder for your opponent to know if it's safe to drop shield yet.
That's unfortunate, but it wasn't essential to the game-plan so it won't be too bad imoThat's true. It screws up things that were common with DB. It could end up being more of a nerf.
I don't think you understand what happened here. It's not 5 frames more end lag on each hit. That is all the same. It's 5 frames longer to input the next attack (now the last frame you can input is actually right before the end of the move).If you side b their shield, they can just roll behind you and because of the added 5 frames, its harder to punish.
You can still do those things you just have to be precise in when you press those buttons. No buffering. Act like it's Melee.It's a mixed bag. Personally I feel it is a straight up nerf due to not being able to use first hit DB into dolphin slash. That and shieldbreaker mindgames and mixups are gone.
I know, its just harder to do things. Gotta practice.snip
How is DB a weaker move? All that's changed is you have more 5 more frames to input the next strike.disappointed.
i dont think these few frames are going to change much. the shield grabs will still be real, marth's hitboxes will still be ****, and dancing blade is a now a weaker mix up tool.
No, endlag is the same as beforedoesn't that mean they tacked on 5 frames to the endlag?
Nope, there's just 5 more frames than before before you can't input another dancing blade actiondoesn't that mean they tacked on 5 frames to the endlag?
No. All that's increased is the window for inputing the next hit. Ending lag is unchanged.doesn't that mean they tacked on 5 frames to the endlag?
The few frames make a difference. There's plenty of ways to avoid shield grabs like spacing and mixing up how you land. Marth's hitboxes are solid. Dancing blade now has an easier combination window.disappointed.
i dont think these few frames are going to change much. the shield grabs will still be real, marth's hitboxes will still be ****, and dancing blade is a now a weaker mix up tool.
Make sure to hold down before or as soon as Marth reaches the apex of DS. He'll stall less and fall down faster (and after that you can fast fall to save even more time).On a different note, I am LOVING this DS landing lag buff. This is the power of three frames??? I feel like I can use DS so recklessly with no problem, oh my god. Landing takes SO little recovery.
Awe man that sounds bad. That slight hover helps to throw off opponents.Buff/nerf for DB?
Sure, DB -> SB is harder, but aerial rising DB -> DS, which is actually used for recovering? D:<
All it takes is a slight adjustment, so it's ok. It looks like Marth starts to fall a LITTLE before DS now, but it's very minimal.
DB feels SO close to what it was in Brawl now (I'm ashamed to say this, but I occasionally didn't all hits because of the tighter window). Now all we need is the insane IASA from Brawl, hah.
Nair still feels like it has less lag than uair, but if we line up http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Marth and the "16 -> 14" frames for uair from this thread, that doesn't seems right. Are we really sure on this? We have an accuracy on this data of within 1 frame or something, right?
Or maaaybe it's just me.
That's interesting. I wonder how they did it instead of changing the coding in the dodge subaction, especially considering it was a universal nerfRolls and spot dodges were universally nerfed.
Marth now becomes vulnerable on frame 18 of a spot dodge (formerly 19), and on frame 19 of a forward or back roll (formerly 20).
I might be exaggerating it honestly, but it is a bigger window to mess up off-stage. Might be better for trapping in the strings offstage, but it doesn't feel any different to me. As I stated the only true buff I see from it is a better on-stage while covering the ledge option due to the leniency it has.I don't get why a lot of people are saying that DB won't allow people to use DS and that it's a nerf.
Unless the Allow Interrupt frame (aka IASA frame for competitive people) was changed so it's 5 frames later, you'll be able to do the same thing as before. I didn't see anything akin to that being changed, so I don't think that's the case. Mastercore also can't dump animation data afaik, so we dont' know if 5 frames were added to the end of DB (I doubt that's the case).
You just can't start spamming it 5 frames earlier than usual, that's all.
Also, DB's never been a good stall option imo. Unless you get it at the apex of your jump you won't get any lift, unless you wavebounce you won't get any horizontal velocity, and it barely stalls when you're falling down. Just my $0.02
Sounds good, but it doesn't seem to eliminate rolling as a sort of traveling option and resetting option if used in awkward situations.Rolls and spot dodges were universally nerfed.
Marth now becomes vulnerable on frame 18 of a spot dodge (formerly 19), and on frame 19 of a forward or back roll (formerly 20).
It's in every diff file here: http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/param-diff-128-144/That's interesting. I wonder how they did it instead of changing the coding in the dodge subaction, especially considering it was a universal nerf
If that is the case then I applaud Sakurai and his team for doing something like that since it makes defensive options as a whole for certain characters. This could mean Sheik has a weaker roll than pre-patch?It's in every diff file here: http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/param-diff-128-144/
So I suppose that means they went through and changed it for each character one by one?
Oh, it's up! Thanks for that.It's in every diff file here: http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/param-diff-128-144/
So I suppose that means they went through and changed it for each character one by one?
I think they apply to Dancing Blade, but what they changed about it I'm not sureSo, looking at the file for Marth (http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/param-diff-128-144/fighter_param_vl_marth.bin.txt), I see a lot of stuff got changed from 42 to 40. What exactly are those for?
+1. What is this stuff?So, looking at the file for Marth (http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/param-diff-128-144/fighter_param_vl_marth.bin.txt), I see a lot of stuff got changed from 42 to 40. What exactly are those for?
I'd guess it's a reduction to how long it lasts, similar to how the rolls were edited. It could also be his other specials too. It could even be something basic as base damage, charge up time, aerial momentum, horizontal movement. Anything really.I think they apply to Dancing Blade, but what they changed about it I'm not sure
I'm looking at it right now. This is what I've got so far.+1. What is this stuff?
I get the spot dodge and 2 rolls but the 40 to 37, many 42 to 40s, 22.0 to 19.0, 36.0 to 33.0, and 42.0 to 39.0 is beyond me.