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Luigi QA - RIP Mark Dunstan "Marky-Mark"

Scidadle

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
2,041
Location
Toronto, Canada
I still havent found out how to crouch cancel : /

But yeah I've been playing smash for a couple months so my WDs are pretty solid.

Luigi's pretty easy to WD with
 

Pakman

WWMD
BRoomer
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Phoenix Foundation
I still havent found out how to crouch cancel : /

But yeah I've been playing smash for a couple months so my WDs are pretty solid.

Luigi's pretty easy to WD with
Hold down to crouch cancel. When crouching you have less knockback from attacks. Marth can crouch cancel a sweet spotted knee at 0% and grab falcon (gay). Weaker aerials and dash attacks are asking to be crouch canceled into a dsmash with Luigi.

****enson
 

Scidadle

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
2,041
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Toronto, Canada
Ah.

Then I just didnt know what it was XD.

Thanks a bunch Pakman.

I have added a new secondary to my list
(main now)
 

Pakman

WWMD
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is the upair comboable multiple times?
The simple answer is that it is highly dependent on DI. In my combo vid (and in Gimpy's metagame vid :) ) there is a clip where I up air a Falco twice. Into a wavedash ftilt.

I like upair because it has pretty good priority and is the only aerial that has a hitbox above Luigi. And you can do some neat stuff to people who DI it wrong.

My general uses are (wow I really like using these lists)

1.) Ending double aerials against shields - Up air will push you farther away from the shield (or push them farther from you), so you won't get shield grabbed as much.

2.) Finishing air combos where they will get out of hit stun before they are in range of fair or dair. Sweet spot nairing spacies over 100% is usually tough to follow up with fair or dair, Up air has the hitbox to get that hit off before the hit stun wears off.

3.) Comboing floaties. Marth in particular. Upthrow marth at mid percents and jump upair. 9/10 times they will DI in and you get a free fair. I have done this to Sheiks as well.
 

WIGI

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
2,333
Location
Brampton ON
alright thanks. thats all for now lol. i want to make it out of pool at least at genisis. but if not its all good.
 

Omni_Smash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
175
What is the best use for Fireballs? Like they aren't exacty spamable like pills.
 

Pakman

WWMD
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I use them to cause hitstun to continue combos when you can't hit with a normal move. Edge guard spacie illusions, take peach out of her floating and to pressure certain characters who camp.

They are good, but by no means are they spammable.
 

Heart Break Kid

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
1,461
Location
Maplewood,NJ
You can catch people off guard pretty easily with 12 Pakman lol. Who are you maining for SF4? Cammy all dai. your youtube needs more vids....is the commentary that terrible from Sat? :(
 

Pakman

WWMD
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is there any way to actually learn how to mash down B really fast?
Not really. If you can at least stay at the same height it is sometimes worth it. I usually don't mash that well.

But if you want to try something....

I pinch my thumb and pointer finger together nd sort of twitch my wrist to press it fast.
 

WIGI

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
2,333
Location
Brampton ON
k so im offstage, recovering, and i get up B'd by Falcon. i waljump tech it. Then its reflex to recover with green missle. however, as soon as he sees the walljump tech, he up b's me in the oposite direction and I die! then he recoevers, this has happened like, 6 times the last time we practised together.

what do i doooooo
 

Pakman

WWMD
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k so im offstage, recovering, and i get up B'd by Falcon. i waljump tech it. Then its reflex to recover with green missle. however, as soon as he sees the walljump tech, he up b's me in the oposite direction and I die! then he recoevers, this has happened like, 6 times the last time we practised together.

what do i doooooo
Oh man the wall jump tech is AMAZING versus falcon. When you get up+b'ed you get your jump back. So just do the tech and hit falcon with a fair or a dair. Double Jump + up+b is PLENTY to recover. Its so easy after that tech and anyone watching will be like "OH GIRL" (okay only I would say that but you get the point).

At Sensei's tournament a few weeks ago I performed that exact move in a team's match. I wish someone didn't over write that video :-/ .
 

WIGI

Smash Champion
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Sep 22, 2007
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Brampton ON
oh yeah, i forgot i get my double jump back, il just jump over him and watch him die, or ariel him,

thx pakman
 

Pakman

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not if there are no major tournaments planned

and it doesn't look like there are =\
Mango is coming out for the March 7th tournament. It is one of Alukard's biweeklies. I imagine that is pretty close to where you lived in Jersey.

However, I won't be at that one.

There is another SPOC Scheduled for April 4th now too.
 

Altus_Consul

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
13
Could you guys give me some v. Marth strats. Marth made me almost drop my main and he's the only character I feel I lose to without being outplayed. I can combo/ledgeguard him ok but approach is my main problem. Thanks in advance.
 

Pakman

WWMD
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So, I played Cactuar pretty recently and I realized some problems in my game. I kind of want to open it up to some discussion.

Shielding. I stay in my shield A LOT. I think against certain people I should try and be aggressive. I turtle with Luigi and strike from a defensive position. I think this is my main issue with Sheik. Sheik's offense is hard to punish, but if I can find some defensive exploits, I might get the upper hand. I also don't WD out of shield enough. I usually use hit stun to make it easier, but I definitely need to do that instead of rolling.

Jab Grab- Everyone loves this move, but against really smart people they CC the jab and grab you first. (Cactuar gets me with this)

Dash Dancing - Everyone knows Luigi's wavedash is his primary source of movement, but Dash Dancing during perfect wavedashes is a pretty good mindgame that I want to incorporate into my game.

Predictable ledge game. Ledge drop dj waveland isn't the only thing Luigi has when he is on the ledge. Ledge drop dj down B and standard get up are also very good alternatives.

My browser did nasty things to McFox's browser's mom.
 

COEY

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
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Bolton, UK
Hope what i have to say helps, also writing in green just for you pakman <3

So, I played Cactuar pretty recently and I realized some problems in my game. I kind of want to open it up to some discussion.

First off having gaps in your game that cactuar can exploit isnt too much to worry about he's quite decent at this game...

Shielding. I stay in my shield A LOT. I think against certain people I should try and be aggressive. I turtle with Luigi and strike from a defensive position. I think this is my main issue with Sheik. Sheik's offense is hard to punish, but if I can find some defensive exploits, I might get the upper hand. I also don't WD out of shield enough. I usually use hit stun to make it easier, but I definitely need to do that instead of rolling.

First off you probably right about this making your sheik game weaker, probably similar to why you dont like falco either. Key to both match ups is staying aggressive and not letting them dictate their approach properly. For sheik upsmash is amazing as sheik isnt very good if your underneath her. In both cases its about keeping them on their toes, punishing bad spacing that this can result in with a grab, then hurting them alot from said grab as luigi just loves to do. Personally i love up throw, at 0% it goes straight into an upsmash, then into fairs etc. Down throw is the **** at higher percents i guess tho. Though i like to upthrow then jump at mid % as if im gonna fair them, then do nothing and watch them use their jump trying to escape. Once sheik loses that it can be quite fatal especially if shes above you.

Jab Grab- Everyone loves this move, but against really smart people they CC the jab and grab you first. (Cactuar gets me with this)

I think its best not to overuse this, anything you do rarely will surprise more often than not, sort of save it for that grab, the one thats probably gonna kill them.

Dash Dancing - Everyone knows Luigi's wavedash is his primary source of movement, but Dash Dancing during perfect wavedashes is a pretty good mindgame that I want to incorporate into my game.

I find that only time i can use this well is if i wave dash just out of grab range or behind them. Though i guess it could be used as a mindgame just before a wavedash approach too as you could either come at them with a ftilt/grab or a back air or even more crazy a backwards wavedash turn around into a ftilt/grab. Omg that kinda confuses me actually just saying it....

Predictable ledge game. Ledge drop dj waveland isn't the only thing Luigi has when he is on the ledge. Ledge drop dj down B and standard get up are also very good alternatives.

I guess its all about where they are i guess as well, as you will know theres never a full proof way thats what makes melee so good. But yea if you waveland from the ledge all the time its gonna get predicable, just mix it up like you say, unless its a force of habit then its not gonna be as simple as that i guess. I like to air dodge from the ledge at ppl too just cause its not expected.

My browser did nasty things to McFox's browser's mom.

Sounds good any vids? :)
Anyway i hope i helped think im gonna analise my game too as post something similar to this is now seems like it could be really useful.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
11,926
Location
San Francisco, CA
already talked to pakman on aim about it, but wondering if anyone else has any thoughts...

would luigi be better or worse (and by how much) if his dair always meteored?
 

WIGI

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
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Location
Brampton ON
harrd to say.

i mean like. if applyed to the way we all play curently, it would be bad. its nto oftern we dair offstage as aposed to bair. and i know i get pissed when i spike from like a dthrow or somthing when it owuld have otehrwise killed.

that saying. if it DID spike all the time, or gamepay would be diferent. i think wed be liek falco and have discovered 1835625092528 ways to lead to the dair offstage lol.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
11,926
Location
San Francisco, CA
harrd to say.

i mean like. if applyed to the way we all play curently, it would be bad. its nto oftern we dair offstage as aposed to bair. and i know i get pissed when i spike from like a dthrow or somthing when it owuld have otehrwise killed.

that saying. if it DID spike all the time, or gamepay would be diferent. i think wed be liek falco and have discovered 1835625092528 ways to lead to the dair offstage lol.
obviously you'd play differently, lol

i mean, if luigi had falco's laser instead of the fireball, you'd play differently too, but almost everyone would agree that it would be an upgrade

and yeah, i think the main thing would be a huge boost to his combo/tech chase game, with the tipping point being whether its impact exceeds that of the reduced KO ability
 

Pakman

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My biggest issue with a change like that is that against good DI, the fair is not a good killing move. The current dair has a great angle for sending foes off stage. It isn't as good as Sheik's fair or Falcon's knee, but it is still very useful. Basically you are trading a killing move/combo finisher for a combo starter/combo enhancer. I'd prefer the killing move, because Luigi's other options are either too risky or not good enough.

Having that said, ending double aerials with a dair that starts a combo would be sexy.
 

COEY

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
1,172
Location
Bolton, UK
I think if luigi's dair did meteor always then he'd be in need of a new nair, possibly a nice one like samus'.
 

Lixivium

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
2,689
No, he'd have much less killing power. Maybe if they gave D-air specific frames (like the knee) or a better sweetspot (like reverse knees) that meteored, that'd be pretty useful...
 

Lixivium

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
2,689
having a tricky hitbox for a combo starter doesn't seem terribly useful. The reason you can get a lot of utility out of the knee's different hitboxes is that they're typically in hitstun when you're lining it up.
Well there are plenty of situations when you have fastfallers in hitstun. I understand what you're saying but my point was that it'd be better to add than replace a hitbox so you'd have more options, only the way they did it as is makes the other hitbox (the D-air meteor) pretty useless.
 

nasir123

Smash Ace
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St.Chatharines
well i just started to play luigi and i am getting good i am havving a bit of truoble trying to figure out what move is neccecary so i am asking basically how to use luigi in an advanced style like i watch a lot of ka-masta matched so i know some basics and some advanced techs also when and where do i use the wavedash?
 

Pakman

WWMD
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well i just started to play luigi and i am getting good i am havving a bit of truoble trying to figure out what move is neccecary so i am asking basically how to use luigi in an advanced style like i watch a lot of ka-masta matched so i know some basics and some advanced techs also when and where do i use the wavedash?
Well Luigi is all about tricky movement, combos and spacing. In general, Luigi combos from the air and does all of his horizontal movement on the ground. Wavedashing is much more effective than dashing.

I mean there are books written on general Luigi strategy so I will just cover some of the more important things.

Get to know character weights so you know what combos work. Fox Falco and to some extent falcon are all fast fallers and very comfortable. Floater characters are tougher and you usually looking at two or three move combos.

Edge Guard well. One big thing about edge guarding is that you're goal is to keep them off the stage and off the ledge. Don't worry about killing them. Keep them off stage and they will die eventually. People who go for kills over edge guards, generally do more risky and avoidable attacks.

FTILT is your best friend for range and spacing. How awesome that move is keeps me up at night.

Your kills are going to come from edge guards, and gimps. Luigi doesn't have a knee or other ridiculous kill moves.

Never approach from the air. Luigi's speed comes from wavedashing. Wavedashing is almost always a better choice than dashing.
Note for the nit pickers: Double aerials are not an approach. WD double aerial is.
 
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