Ono
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2009
- Messages
- 49
Hey guys, well I was hoping we could a get a stage discussion thread going. If there is a stage discussion thread that I missed when i searched the boards, then you can just lock this.
Basically, if this works out, we'll be discussing one stage, and list the characters which could be a counterpick or a stage strike for them. Eventually, we'll get a list of counterpicks and stage strikes. The ratings will be out of 10, and we'll list the pros and cons about the stage. I know there is Tyr's amazing guide with specific character + stage discussion, but hopefully, this will go a bit faster. I am always open to suggestions for next stage discussions. Also, don't just look at the OP. I won't be listing all the tricks mentioned, just the important ones. So, look at the actual discussion if you have time. If you guys see any errors that I've made, please tell me.
Remember that these are only general outlooks on how Lucas does on stages. Counterpicking takes much more thought in to their style of playing, etc. I recommend watching The Art of Counterpicking Stages
Current Discussion: Gray
Finished Discussions: Pink
All stage discussions will be starter, counterpick, or counterpick/banned stages based on SBR Recommended Rule List v2.0. Here it is:
Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1
Counter
Brinstar
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Counter/Banned
Distant Planet
Green Greens
Luigi's Mansion
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)
Norfair
Banned
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Corneria
Flat Zone 2
Green Hill Zone
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mario Circuit
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Onett
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Skyworld
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware
Format:
-Title of stage
-Pros: The advantages of this stage, and why you should pick it
-Cons: The disadvantages of this stage, and why you shouldn't pick it
-Counterpicks: Who you should pick this stage against
-Bans: Who you should ban this stage against
-Notes: Thoughts on this stage. They usually contain some tricks that you could use on the stage
-Rating: The rating of this stage. Out of 10
-Video: Our fellow Lucas' matches, showing the tricks and advantages of the stage, or disadvantages of the stage
-Post #: The number of the post the discussion starts on
_________________________________________
Stages
Neutral
Final Destination
Pros:
-Allows for effective camping
Cons:
-Lack of platforms
-Flat terrain (making it easier for chaingrabs)
Stage Strike - Diddy Kong, Falco, King Dedede
Counterpicks - Game and Watch
Bans - Diddy Kong, Falco
Discussion starts on: Post #4
Battlefield
Pros:
-Platforms
Cons:
-
Stage Strike - Game and Watch, Marth, Snake
Counterpicks-
Bans-
Discussion starts on: Post #60
Yoshi's Island
Pros:
-Middle platform
Cons:
-The edges of the stage can prevent PKT2
-The ghost platforms can prevent PKT2
-The terrain messes up with your PKF
-The shy guys can block your PKF
Stage Strike - Falco, Lucario, Marth, Metaknight, Pit
Counterpicks -
Bans - Lucario
Video - prOAPC vs. Snes (DK)
Discussion starts on: Post #113
Smashville
Pros:
-Moving platform
Cons:
-Flat terrain can be annoying for campers, and chaingrabbers.
Stage Strike - Diddy Kong
Counterpicks -
Bans -
Discussion starts on: Post #142
Starter/Counter
Note: I'm removing all of the starter/counter stages from stage striking, except Lylat Cruise, and PS1. Those are the more common ones that you see at tournaments.
Castle Siege
Pros:
-
Cons:
-The recovery issues with the edges on the 1st phase
-Grab release and chaingrabs can easily lead to death b/c of walkoffs on the 2nd phase
-Pillars block PK fire, making camping harder on 2nd phase
-Tilting messes with autocancelling and recovery on the 3rd phase
Counterpicks -
Bans -
Discussion starts on: Post #40
Halberd
Pros:
-Able to go through the moving platform for easier recovery, and less gimping
-Platform for thundersliding, U-smash, etc.
-Wide space for camping (ship)
-Edges are good for wallhugging (ship)
Cons:
-Edges sometimes get in the way of recovering (ship)
-The huge space of the ship = long chaingrabs
Counterpicks - Lucario
Bans - King Dedede, Snake
Discussion starts on: Post #50
Pokemon Stadium 1
Pros:
-Moar platforms!
-Possible F-tilt locks on Fire/Rock
Cons:
-Wall infinites
-Weird ledge screws up recoveries
-Messed up terrain on the Fire/Rock/Water phases make you bounce off during PKT2
Stage Strike - King Dedede
Counterpicks - Pit
Bans -
Discussion starts on: Post #93
Lylat Cruise
Pros:
-3 platforms
Cons:
-Tilting
Stage Strike - Game and Watch, Lucario, Pit, Snake
Counterpicks -
Bans - Pit
Discussion starts on: Post #127
Counter
Rainbow Cruise
Pros:
-Lucas' recovery
Cons:
-Lucas' air game
Counterpicks - Falco, Snake
Bans - Game and Watch, Metaknight
Discussion starts on: Post #27
Jungle Japes
Pros:
-Middle platform (look at notes for more details)
Cons:
-Grab release --> Klaptrap
Counterpicks - King Dedede, Marth, Snake
Bans - Falco
Discussion starts on: Post #31
Frigate Orpheon
Pros:
-Platforms on both phases
Cons:
-No ledge on the right side of the 1st phase
-2nd phase isn't good for PKF, SH nair, and grab
-Moving platforms on the 2nd phase can cause recovery mess-ups
Counterpicks -
Bans -
Discussion starts on: Post #67
Pokemon Stadium 2
Pros:
-U-smash cancel on conveyor belts on the Electric phase
-PKT2 is like a thunderslide, F-smash + D-smash on the Ice phase
-Possible F-tilt locks on Ground phase
-Platforms on Electric, Ground, Ice, and Neutral phases
Cons:
-Air stage >_>
Counterpicks - Diddy Kong, Lucario
Bans -
Discussion starts on: Post #75
Delfino Plaza
Pros:
-More platforms!
-Able to go through the moving platform for easier recovery, and less gimping
-Possible F-tilt locks
Cons:
-Walkoffs
-Possible infinites
Counterpicks -
Bans - King Dedede, Marth
Discussion starts on: Post #86
Brinstar
Pros:
-Rugged terrain prevents things like chaingrabs
-Lava helps recovery
Cons:
-Forces characters to fight in the air
Counterpicks - Everyone except those who are mentioned in Notes.
Bans -
Discussion starts on: Post #100
Pirate Ship
Pros:
-Platforms?
Cons:
-Water
Counterpicks -
Bans - Ike, Ganondorf, Wolf, Olimar
Video -
Discussion starts on: Post #121
Pictochat
Pros:
-Allows for effective camping
Cons:
-Some drawings can create wall infinites, such as the whale.
-The 2 eyes with the line drawing has no edge on the right side
-Infinite edges like on Yoshi's
Counterpicks -
Bans - Diddy Kong
Discussion starts on: Post #131
Counter/Banned
Luigi's Mansion
Pros:
-D-throw --> Dtilt lock setups (Look at video for heytallman's setups)
-D-smash + U-smash mindgames
-Mad combos on this stage
Cons:
-Characters like DK can live up to absurdly high percentages
Counterpicks -
Bans -
Video: HTM's Lucas tilt lock setups on Luigi's Mansion
Discussion starts on: Post #145
Norfair
Pros:
-Many platforms
-Capsule lol
-PK Freeze camping
Cons:
-
Counterpicks - Falco, King Dedede
Bans -
Video:
Discussion starts on: Post #154
Green Greens
Pros:
-Kill at low percents
-Makes it easy for Lucas to camp center
Cons:
-GR infinites against walls
Counterpicks - ROB, Diddy Kong
Bans - Anyone with Dash Regrab out of GR, Game & Watch, Snake
Discussion starts on: Post #175
Here is the order of Lucas' best stages to his worst:
Jungle Japes: 9/10
Brinstar: 9/10
Norfair: 9/10
Battlefield: 8/10
Smashville: 8/10
Halberd: 8/10
Luigi's Mansion: 8/10
Final Destination: 7/10
Delfino Plaza: 7/10
Pokemon Stadium 2: 7/10
Rainbow Cruise: 7/10
Pokemon Stadium 1: 6/10
Frigate Orpheon: 6/10
Pictochat: 6/10
Castle Siege: 5/10
Pirate Ship: 5/10
Yoshi's Island (Brawl): 4/10
Lylat Cruise: 4/10
Basically, if this works out, we'll be discussing one stage, and list the characters which could be a counterpick or a stage strike for them. Eventually, we'll get a list of counterpicks and stage strikes. The ratings will be out of 10, and we'll list the pros and cons about the stage. I know there is Tyr's amazing guide with specific character + stage discussion, but hopefully, this will go a bit faster. I am always open to suggestions for next stage discussions. Also, don't just look at the OP. I won't be listing all the tricks mentioned, just the important ones. So, look at the actual discussion if you have time. If you guys see any errors that I've made, please tell me.
Remember that these are only general outlooks on how Lucas does on stages. Counterpicking takes much more thought in to their style of playing, etc. I recommend watching The Art of Counterpicking Stages
Current Discussion: Gray
Finished Discussions: Pink
All stage discussions will be starter, counterpick, or counterpick/banned stages based on SBR Recommended Rule List v2.0. Here it is:
Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1
Counter
Brinstar
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Counter/Banned
Distant Planet
Green Greens
Luigi's Mansion
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)
Norfair
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Corneria
Flat Zone 2
Green Hill Zone
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mario Circuit
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Onett
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Skyworld
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware
Format:
-Title of stage
-Pros: The advantages of this stage, and why you should pick it
-Cons: The disadvantages of this stage, and why you shouldn't pick it
-Counterpicks: Who you should pick this stage against
-Bans: Who you should ban this stage against
-Notes: Thoughts on this stage. They usually contain some tricks that you could use on the stage
-Rating: The rating of this stage. Out of 10
-Video: Our fellow Lucas' matches, showing the tricks and advantages of the stage, or disadvantages of the stage
-Post #: The number of the post the discussion starts on
_________________________________________
Stages
Neutral
Final Destination
Pros:
-Allows for effective camping
Cons:
-Lack of platforms
-Flat terrain (making it easier for chaingrabs)
Stage Strike - Diddy Kong, Falco, King Dedede
Counterpicks - Game and Watch
Bans - Diddy Kong, Falco
Rating - 7/10Notes about Final Destination - The lack of platforms makes it harder for Lucas to recover, and he is not able to thunderslide for a surprise attack. Never take someone who can outcamp you here, or whose projectiles you can not absorb. You should ban this stage against chaingrabbers such as Falco/Dedede. Otherwise, it's a decent stage for Lucas, and try to work towards getting it in the stage strike system.
Discussion starts on: Post #4
Battlefield
Pros:
-Platforms
Cons:
-
Stage Strike - Game and Watch, Marth, Snake
Counterpicks-
Bans-
Rating - 8/10Notes about Battlefield - A basic stage...nothing really to it. Platforms are always good for Lucas. Thundersliding, U-smash, U-air, PK fire dropping techniques, reducing chaingrabs. D-smash is good if you're on the platform and the opponent is under you. Another good neutral stage.
Discussion starts on: Post #60
Yoshi's Island
Pros:
-Middle platform
Cons:
-The edges of the stage can prevent PKT2
-The ghost platforms can prevent PKT2
-The terrain messes up with your PKF
-The shy guys can block your PKF
Stage Strike - Falco, Lucario, Marth, Metaknight, Pit
Counterpicks -
Bans - Lucario
Rating - 4/10Notes about Yoshi's Island - This is one of Lucas' worst stages. Alot of things can mess with your recovery. Sometimes the edges cancel out your PKT2, sometimes you bounce of the edges, and sometimes the ghost platform just decides to pop up at the wrong times. The terrain messes with your PKF, and the shy guys can prevent them from going anywhere. The only good thing is the platform. It tilts every once in a while, and can make Thundersliding go longer/shorter. Stage strike this stage first, unless there is an obvious stage strike for a different player (e.g. Diddy/Falco)
Video - prOAPC vs. Snes (DK)
Discussion starts on: Post #113
Smashville
Pros:
-Moving platform
Cons:
-Flat terrain can be annoying for campers, and chaingrabbers.
Stage Strike - Diddy Kong
Counterpicks -
Bans -
Rating - 8/10Notes about Smashville - This is my favorite neutral. First, let's talk about the moving platform. It creates some weird effects with Thundersliding, and D-smash is hilarious on it. You can go on the edge and D-smash, and if you D-smash in the direction it's going, you can sometimes hit the opponent 3 times in a row. The only bad thing is Snake and his stupid C4. Flat terrain is annoying for characters who can outcamp you, and chaingrabbers.
Discussion starts on: Post #142
Starter/Counter
Note: I'm removing all of the starter/counter stages from stage striking, except Lylat Cruise, and PS1. Those are the more common ones that you see at tournaments.
Castle Siege
Pros:
-
Cons:
-The recovery issues with the edges on the 1st phase
-Grab release and chaingrabs can easily lead to death b/c of walkoffs on the 2nd phase
-Pillars block PK fire, making camping harder on 2nd phase
-Tilting messes with autocancelling and recovery on the 3rd phase
Counterpicks -
Bans -
Rating - 5/10Notes about Castle Siege - Watch out for the edges on the 1st phase. They mess with Lucas' recovery. On the 2nd phase, the walk-offs are deadly for Lucas. They can automatically lead to a death because of his laggy ground break, and chaingrabbers. The pillars block Lucas so it prevents him from camping, but you can D-Smash them for some mindgames, as they extend the duration of the hitbox. Try platform camping while occasionally PK firing. On the 3rd phase, the tilting becomes an issue with recovery and autocancelling. Overall, a bad stage for Lucas.
Discussion starts on: Post #40
Halberd
Pros:
-Able to go through the moving platform for easier recovery, and less gimping
-Platform for thundersliding, U-smash, etc.
-Wide space for camping (ship)
-Edges are good for wallhugging (ship)
Cons:
-Edges sometimes get in the way of recovering (ship)
-The huge space of the ship = long chaingrabs
Counterpicks - Lucario
Bans - King Dedede, Snake
Rating - 8/10Notes about Halberd - On the moving platform phase, you are able to jump/PKT2 through the platform, making recovery much easier. The platforms on both phases help by enabling you to thunderslide, and make U-smash and U-air easier to land. On the ship, the edges are good for wallhugging, but they sometimes get in the way of recovery if you don't angle the PKT2 right. The wide space makes it easier to camp, but allows for long chaingrabs. Overall, another good stage for Lucas.
Discussion starts on: Post #50
Pokemon Stadium 1
Pros:
-Moar platforms!
-Possible F-tilt locks on Fire/Rock
Cons:
-Wall infinites
-Weird ledge screws up recoveries
-Messed up terrain on the Fire/Rock/Water phases make you bounce off during PKT2
Stage Strike - King Dedede
Counterpicks - Pit
Bans -
Rating - 6/10Notes about Pokemon Stadium 1- This stage has messed up terrain, so counterpick against annoying campers such as Pit. F-tilt locks are possible, but that also means that wall infinites are possible, so ban against Dedede. Learn to tech the windmill in the Water phase, since you can survive high percents that way. On the Rock phase, wall infinites are everywhere. If someone like D3 wants to infinite you in those narrow spaces, just PKT1 chase in there. Also, watch out for the right ledge. You can't roll to the left or something, so watch out for tech chases there.
Discussion starts on: Post #93
Lylat Cruise
Pros:
-3 platforms
Cons:
-Tilting
Stage Strike - Game and Watch, Lucario, Pit, Snake
Counterpicks -
Bans - Pit
Rating - 4/10Notes about Lylat Cruise - Unfortunately, this is another bad neutral for us . The tilting messes with everything, PKF, PKT2, and autocancelling. U-tilt can't go through the platforms. There are larger blastzones than usual neutral stages.
Strike it, it's another bad neutral.
Discussion starts on: Post #127
Counter
Rainbow Cruise
Pros:
-Lucas' recovery
Cons:
-Lucas' air game
Counterpicks - Falco, Snake
Bans - Game and Watch, Metaknight
Rating - 7/10Notes about Rainbow Cruise - Experience is the key to this stage. You should learn the mechanics of this stage because it is a decent counterpick for those who don't have many, such as Snake. Lucas gets around easily on this stage with his zap jumps and his magnet pulls. However, the downside is Lucas is better on the ground than the air because of his poor air game.
Discussion starts on: Post #27
Jungle Japes
Pros:
-Middle platform (look at notes for more details)
Cons:
-Grab release --> Klaptrap
Counterpicks - King Dedede, Marth, Snake
Bans - Falco
Rating - 9/10Notes about Jungle Japes - Just control the middle platform. If the opponent camps on the right, send a PK freeze over to them. If they shield, then they will be knocked onto the edge. This gives you time to run over and do whatever. You can thunderslide all over the place from the top middle platform. It'll land you on the edge. It's pretty much an invincible attack. It's almost impossible for one to get back on the stage once they get knocked off the left side of the middle platform and any further left. Just PK thunder, and they'll get hit back into the water. With snake you gotta hit him with the head, but chars like jiggz, you gotta use more of the tail. You can also get alot of easy Dsmash KO's on the left side. If you get knocked into the water, you can easily zap jumpo to gain height and have PKT2 as another recovery option, though you shouldn't need it. Thanks to ~Pink Fresh~ for the description . The klaptraps come everytime on the right side of the stage when there is a 7 in the ones digit (i.e. 7:57, 7:47, etc.), so watch out for the infinite grab release ---> klaptrap. It happens to me a surprising amount.
Discussion starts on: Post #31
Frigate Orpheon
Pros:
-Platforms on both phases
Cons:
-No ledge on the right side of the 1st phase
-2nd phase isn't good for PKF, SH nair, and grab
-Moving platforms on the 2nd phase can cause recovery mess-ups
Counterpicks -
Bans -
Rating - 6/10Notes about Frigate Orpheon - Make sure you listen for the siren on this stage because it can create recovery issues if you get caught under the stage, so make sure you jump! On the 1st phase, there is no right ledge, so try to hit people off that edge so you can punish them later. The moving platform can cause a short "infinite" chaingrab/wall lock on characters so watch out for that. On the 2nd phase, watch out for the moving platforms because they can come out right when you're recovering, and cancel out your PKT. I suggest reading Amazing Ampharos' post about the mechanics of this stage, calledFrigate Orpheon mechanics..
Discussion starts on: Post #67
Pokemon Stadium 2
Pros:
-U-smash cancel on conveyor belts on the Electric phase
-PKT2 is like a thunderslide, F-smash + D-smash on the Ice phase
-Possible F-tilt locks on Ground phase
-Platforms on Electric, Ground, Ice, and Neutral phases
Cons:
-Air stage >_>
Counterpicks - Diddy Kong, Lucario
Bans -
Rating - 7/10Notes about Pokemon Stadium 2 - The neutral phase is simple. Again, platforms help us. Basically, you can do some things on each phase (Look at pros). The air stage is annoying for us. Although you can PKT1 camp while they're in the air, it messes up our SHPKF, and our auto-cancelling. Fortunately, it messes others up too. So you should counterpick this stage for those who have great air game, or counterpick against those who you don't think that they have much experience on.
Discussion starts on: Post #75
Delfino Plaza
Pros:
-More platforms!
-Able to go through the moving platform for easier recovery, and less gimping
-Possible F-tilt locks
Cons:
-Walkoffs
-Possible infinites
Counterpicks -
Bans - King Dedede, Marth
Rating - 7/10Notes about Delfino Plaza - Yet again, more platforms. Watch out for the walk-offs. Walk-offs are deadly for Lucas because other characters usually have more of an advantage with them. Watch out for the water. Powerful spikes such as Ike's and Ness' will own you in that section. But, if you happen to get the player in the water, then you can always PKT1 chase a bit. Some walls on some of the phases, meaning F-tilt locks.
Discussion starts on: Post #86
Brinstar
Pros:
-Rugged terrain prevents things like chaingrabs
-Lava helps recovery
Cons:
-Forces characters to fight in the air
Counterpicks - Everyone except those who are mentioned in Notes.
Bans -
Rating - 9/10Notes about Brinstar - This is one of the best stages if not the best stage for Lucas. The terrain of the stage ruins chaingrabs and grab releases. Lava helps recovery if you screw up PKT2. The goop can be used for lagging U-smashes and D-smashes for some mindgames. You can go through the stage in case of bad positioning for recovery. Just don't go through the pink goop. There are small walls there so you can bounce off them and fall. The only bad thing is it favours those who fight in the air, and Lucas' air game isn't the best. We recommend you do not take DK, Wario, Lucario, MK, Snake, or Peach there. Wario, Lucario, and Peach have great air game and own on that stage. DK, and Snake are complete powerhouses and kill you easily because of the small blast zones. MK is has great air game and his D-smash is a killer.
Discussion starts on: Post #100
Pirate Ship
Pros:
-Platforms?
Cons:
-Water
Counterpicks -
Bans - Ike, Ganondorf, Wolf, Olimar
Rating - 5/10Notes about Pirate Ship - Water isn't the best for Lucas. His Dair spike is weak, and Bair spike is hard to pull off in the water. You can try a Fair to push the people closer to the ship, or a sourspot Bair. This stage in general is, I find, annoying. The bombs just blow up right in your face, the low gravity is annoying, and that thing that flings you gets in the way. You can F-tilt lock when the ship is sunken. You can also try to B-throw camp when that red ship comes.
Video -
Discussion starts on: Post #121
Pictochat
Pros:
-Allows for effective camping
Cons:
-Some drawings can create wall infinites, such as the whale.
-The 2 eyes with the line drawing has no edge on the right side
-Infinite edges like on Yoshi's
Counterpicks -
Bans - Diddy Kong
Rating - 6/10Notes about Pictochat - Pictochat is more of a fun stage IMO. The infinite edges are annoying, since they can prevent PKT2, and some character's like Dedede can infinite chaingrab you during some of the drawings. Watch out when the drawing with the 2 eyes and the line comes. If you happen to be off the edge, on the right side, then you can't grab the ledge. There's a pretty high ceiling, so it helps against vertical killers.
Discussion starts on: Post #131
Counter/Banned
Luigi's Mansion
Pros:
-D-throw --> Dtilt lock setups (Look at video for heytallman's setups)
-D-smash + U-smash mindgames
-Mad combos on this stage
Cons:
-Characters like DK can live up to absurdly high percentages
Counterpicks -
Bans -
Rating - 8/10Notes about Luigi's Mansion - Luigi's Mansion allows for you to live for extremely long percentages. As long as you DI and tech correctly, you can usually live very long if the house is up. You can combo like mad on the bottom floor. You can pull off multiple U-tilts, and even setup Dtilt combos (Look at Video). The pillars help you refresh your moves, so you can do 10 quick Dtilts, and all your moves are refreshed. Also, you can use the pillars to elongate your D-smash and U-smash.
Video: HTM's Lucas tilt lock setups on Luigi's Mansion
Discussion starts on: Post #145
Norfair
Pros:
-Many platforms
-Capsule lol
-PK Freeze camping
Cons:
-
Counterpicks - Falco, King Dedede
Bans -
Rating - 9/10Notes about Norfair - Norfair is one of the best stages for Lucas. Unfortunately, it's usually banned. There really is no reason for it to be banned. All the hazards are easily avoidable. The 6 platforms give us many options for recovery. Also, because of the large space, we can PK freeze camp. The capsule is usually a pro for Lucas. If you can manage to get a D-tilt lock going on, it can last for quite a while. Also, you can D-smash in the capsule, and the opponent goes flying everywhere. Lava isn't too good for us...it limits our recovery options and boosts the chance of us being gimped. The other opponent can camp to an extreme amount, because of the number of ledges, but we can easily avoid that, but just throwing a PK Freeze there from afar. Overall, one of Lucas' best stages, and a great counterpick.
Video:
Discussion starts on: Post #154
Green Greens
Pros:
-Kill at low percents
-Makes it easy for Lucas to camp center
Cons:
-GR infinites against walls
Counterpicks - ROB, Diddy Kong
Bans - Anyone with Dash Regrab out of GR, Game & Watch, Snake
Rating 6 /10Notes about Green Greens- Green greens can be a great stage for Lucas in many ways. Lucas has a pretty easy time camping the center platform against several characters such as ROB and Diddy Kong. Lucas also gets really early kills here with all his smashes and the blocks help to make the smashes last longer. The addition of many walls also makes tech-chase into U-smash very feasible here. One thing to note about this stages is to make sure that if you're attacking that there are no bomb blocks next to you. Also make sure that when you DI, you airdodge above the blocks to make sure you don't get hit by a bomb block. However, this is not one of Lucas' best stages due to one reason. A lot of characters can simply grab him and wall infinite him against the blocks. They just have to dash regrab into the blocks and Lucas can do nothing. Another interesting aspect of this stage is the wind. This can makes certain moves much more safe on shield depending on where you stand when you do them.
Discussion starts on: Post #175
Here is the order of Lucas' best stages to his worst:
Jungle Japes: 9/10
Brinstar: 9/10
Norfair: 9/10
Battlefield: 8/10
Smashville: 8/10
Halberd: 8/10
Luigi's Mansion: 8/10
Final Destination: 7/10
Delfino Plaza: 7/10
Pokemon Stadium 2: 7/10
Rainbow Cruise: 7/10
Pokemon Stadium 1: 6/10
Frigate Orpheon: 6/10
Pictochat: 6/10
Castle Siege: 5/10
Pirate Ship: 5/10
Yoshi's Island (Brawl): 4/10
Lylat Cruise: 4/10