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Social King K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: This...Is Our Finest Hour!

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Very well written post BKuppa66 and some food for thought indeed, Good too see our support for King K. Rool growing truly.
 

DarkFoxTeam

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That's expected to happen when Sakurai goes out of his way to state that he basically doesn't want Ridley in Smash (or at the very least doesn't see him as playable).

Makes me worried that if K.Rool does not make it in this game and then we ever get an "explanation" as to why K.Rool missed a chance in Smash Swich, we will see ourselves in a similar situation.
It still surprises me how Sakurai has never once talked about K. Rool. I know I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but after having so many interviews along with how old the franchise is, you'd think he'd at least get a question asked about it. If K. Rool does get into Smash Switch then I hope Sakurai goes into detail on whether he's ever actually considered him before.
 

Jetsurge

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SuperiorYoshi87

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If K. Rool doesn't make it into Smash this time around I'd be hard pressed to imagine him getting in at all... if there's DLC in this one then I guess we can hope for that... but I feel like K. Rools wantedness is at its peak. Not getting him now is a missed opportunity... I mean sure a few years from now he could still be in there as a heavy request but I doubt it.
 

InASnowBoundLand

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I think it's good to point out that K. Rool's popularity is at its zenith. We have more reason to be hopeful now than ever before. I think sometimes K. Rool fans exaggerate K. Rool's popularity in the past, for Melee and Brawl, in a way that makes the situation seem more hopeless than it actually is. As if Sakurai has been looking at this very popular request and denying it for years. That isn't the case. K. Rool's popularity hasn't been high the entire time, especially not for Melee and not even for Brawl. Right now is when we can actually see K. Rool being waved in Sakurai's face to extraordinary levels. And guess what, we got acknowledged already. A character that hadn't appeared since 2008. A character that hasn't returned event though Donkey Kong Country returned. With how limited the DLC was, I don't think we've yet seen the full effect of K. Rool's height of popularity.


I think we have a very good shot this time around.

Of course, K. Rool's situation isn't perfect. There's the lack of recent appearances. So even the current moment, the current profile of K. Rool, can be improved. So I wouldn't say K. Rool isn't getting in ever, if he doesn't show up this time around either. But I think even with his lack of recent appearances, he has a good shot.
 
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Raxxel

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This is K. Rool's best chance yet, but let's not assume he's in because of that. Nintendo definitely knows he and DKC are popular and missed though, as evident by the more recent references to the latter, and the former even getting a street sign named after him in Odyssey, which is again the first time we've ever seen a main series Mario game reference him or DKC in general. Also of course the Mii costume, which is still such a strange anomaly with how its design is not only not the Paon one, but not even 100% the Rare one, with the jewel being blue and shaped like a diamond instead of green and round, making it a design exclusively made for the Mii costume. It's a mystery.
 
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Strong DK

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Bit off-topic but what theme you think K. Rool/kremlings will have in next DKC game, if they (hopefully) are in it? I mean DKC1 had military themed kremlings and DKC2 pirates. Personally i liked both soldiers and pirates. But what's next? Something new or old? Or both?
 

-VictoriaJustice-

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I'm definitely hopeful and this is definitely the best chance he's ever had. I think that if it wasn't for the Ballot, Sakurai might not have ever understood the popularity. I hope he makes it in this time. I have a very good feeling as well.

Speaking of K. Rool in Smash, I made a thing in photoshop. Posted it on r/smashbros but I want to post it here so...

This is just meant for fun but I hope you guys like it and I was able to provide some kind of look at what a playable King K. Rool might look like! (yes i know it's over the CPU slot but still lol)

[image withled as of 4/25 for leaking *credible* information] *snickers*

Now, I'm not the best with photoshop. I'm an intermediate at best but I was bored and I wanted to do something Smash related. After the Spring Man leaker released his assets to the public (thank you btw), I wanted to dedicate my time to making something for King K. Rool.

He's my favorite villain ever and I really hope he can make it in this time. I feel like it's his best chance ever with the Smash Ballot and the retro-designed Mii costume. Back on topic, I took a render of K. Rool and heavily edited it and used the Kirby Air Ride stage as the backdrop.

I just placed that K. Rool render in the middle of the stage so I had something to work with. Sorry if it looks unprofessional but like I said, I'm not that great with this stuff but I wanted to dedicate my time as a fan to make something that others might like as well.

What if King K. Rool was a playable character in Smash Bros. Switch? Welp, that's the idea I used.

It's a bit choppy but my photoshop program was not working properly and it was thundering and lightning here last night so I did a rushed job.

Here's the render I used for his CSS. I tried to base mostly off the Rare design with slightly darker skin and golden belly armor:

[Render? What render?]

And I dug around and got his stock icon as well!


Enjoy the rest of your day guys~!

All in all, this took about four hours to make! I like it so I think it was worth it! I genuinely hope you guys like it!
 
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StormC

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If K. Rool doesn't get in now, it'll take a new game to get him in, unfortunately (which could be right around the corner... if he doesn't make it into the base game, waiting until DLC is finished will suck).
 

-VictoriaJustice-

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If K. Rool doesn't get in now, it'll take a new game to get him in, unfortunately (which could be right around the corner... if he doesn't make it into the base game, waiting until DLC is finished will suck).
Definitely. We still have DLC so if by some chance he's not in the base game, he'd be a hype af DLC character!
 

SuperiorYoshi87

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Bit off-topic but what theme you think K. Rool/kremlings will have in next DKC game, if they (hopefully) are in it? I mean DKC1 had military themed kremlings and DKC2 pirates. Personally i liked both soldiers and pirates. But what's next? Something new or old? Or both?
I would love to see a return of the Kremlings and K. Rool as Ghosts or some kind of zombies. King K. Ghoul.... the theme is them returning from the "dead" when you finally get to the end, you find out the "undead" K. Rool is just a persona as always and he's alive and well ha ha
 

SethTheMage

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I would love to see a return of the Kremlings and K. Rool as Ghosts or some kind of zombies. King K. Ghoul.... the theme is them returning from the "dead" when you finally get to the end, you find out the "undead" K. Rool is just a persona as always and he's alive and well ha ha
I'd be so down for this. I loved World 5 in DKC2 and Creepy Castle in DK64. A gothic/Castlevania aesthetic would be amazing.
 

Gobliiin

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I'm sad they did the Snowmads as I guess Vi King K. Rool will never be a thing. Theres been some good mock ups I've seen. Always thinking about how easy it would have been to have K. Rool back at the end of Tropical Freeze is disappointing.
 

InASnowBoundLand

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The gold belly helps but I have to say that the biggest thing off about Paon K. Rool is the face. I just can't get used to it! It's so different.
 

SuperiorYoshi87

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I'd be so down for this. I loved World 5 in DKC2 and Creepy Castle in DK64. A gothic/Castlevania aesthetic would be amazing.
YES!!!!!!! And give me a new version of Krooks March from DKC2!!!! That would be incredible!!!

https://youtu.be/S9YYo9RYtjk

Edit: Another great persona idea with the theme could be Kount K. Roolkula
 
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Pazzo.

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I've got one hell of a sig coming in featuring the one, the only...

INKLING!!

...


Oh right, our Kapitan's in it too. :p
:233:
 

SuperiorYoshi87

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I don't know how many of you guys have seen the concept art for DKCR, but man.... theres an awful lot of pirate ships in the concepts.... really make's you wonder what could have been...... it must have taken them a freaking long time to decide whether they wanted the Kremlings or not... there's one concept of the "land of Koz" and K. Rools ship is docked out in front of it... looks EXACTLY like the Gangplank Galleon did in DKC2...
18j2om61yfs6ojpg.jpg
4iXVc.jpg
 

Kirby Dragons

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I'm definitely hopeful and this is definitely the best chance he's ever had. I think that if it wasn't for the Ballot, Sakurai might not have ever understood the popularity. I hope he makes it in this time. I have a very good feeling as well.

Speaking of K. Rool in Smash, I made a thing in photoshop. Posted it on r/smashbros but I want to post it here so...

This is just meant for fun but I hope you guys like it and I was able to provide some kind of look at what a playable King K. Rool might look like! (yes i know it's over the CPU slot but still lol)



Now, I'm not the best with photoshop. I'm an intermediate at best but I was bored and I wanted to do something Smash related. After the Spring Man leaker released his assets to the public (thank you btw), I wanted to dedicate my time to making something for King K. Rool.

He's my favorite villain ever and I really hope he can make it in this time. I feel like it's his best chance ever with the Smash Ballot and the retro-designed Mii costume. Back on topic, I took a render of K. Rool and heavily edited it and used the Kirby Air Ride stage as the backdrop.

I just placed that K. Rool render in the middle of the stage so I had something to work with. Sorry if it looks unprofessional but like I said, I'm not that great with this stuff but I wanted to dedicate my time as a fan to make something that others might like as well.

What if King K. Rool was a playable character in Smash Bros. Switch? Welp, that's the idea I used.

It's a bit choppy but my photoshop program was not working properly and it was thundering and lightning here last night so I did a rushed job.

Here's the render I used for his CSS. I tried to base mostly off the Rare design with slightly darker skin and golden belly armor:


And a cute lil stock icon because why not?


Enjoy the rest of your day guys~!

All in all, this took about four hours to make! I like it so I think it was worth it! I genuinely hope you guys like it!
Why'd you tell us you created it? You should've passed it off as a leak (in the Speculation thread), and watched everyone go crazy talking about it.
 
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Chandeelure

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Why'd you tell us you created it? You should've passed it off as a leak (in the Speculation thread), and watched everyone go crazy talking about it.
Yeah... That's literally a part of the leak that was debunked some days ago with the obvious K. Rool trophy in it.

I really doubt people would believe it.

The gold belly look really cool tho.
 

-VictoriaJustice-

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Why'd you tell us you created it? You should've passed it off as a leak (in the Speculation thread), and watched everyone go crazy talking about it.
I thought of that but because the picture was part of the fake leak, it'd probably just take a few minutes to google "king k rool png" and find out the render is just an edited version of something already available lol

Wouldn't have been as fun imo
 

Pazzo.

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In tradition my Whitman parody "Kaptain, my Kaptain", I'm going to write a new one to stir our hearts for Smash 5 support.

Any ideas for the source poem?
 

-VictoriaJustice-

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YOU KNOW WHAT?

I don't have a Switch (yet...) but if someone can get that image of K. Rool in-game (or on your TV) and take a blurry picture of it where it shows just the KING K. RO-part of his name and his portrait without showing the percentage, I want to see how it looks as a leak so I can believe it and be immediately disappointed when I realize I made it.
 

DarkFoxTeam

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The gold belly helps but I have to say that the biggest thing off about Paon K. Rool is the face. I just can't get used to it! It's so different.
That honestly bothers me too. The golden belly is iconic and I think it should be used on every design for K. Rool. I have no idea what Paon had in mind when they redesigned him. I'm honestly glad the Mii costume in Smash 4 closely resembled his Rare art.
 

SuperiorYoshi87

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That honestly bothers me too. The golden belly is iconic and I think it should be used on every design for K. Rool. I have no idea what Paon had in mind when they redesigned him. I'm honestly glad the Mii costume in Smash 4 closely resembled his Rare art.
You can tell PAON took a lot of inspiration from the DK cartoon when they redesigned K. Rool. No tail, small crown, less pronounced eye, while K. Rool had a gold belly in the show it wasn't like the games and was more yellowish.

PAON K. Rool is cartoon K. Rool with a longer cape
 

WeirdChillFever

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Here, have a thinkpiece. I would recommend against reading it in one sitting. The numerous spots where you'll stop and go "Well, actually. . ." regarding my analyses double as spots to step away and grab some food and/or sleep.

Everyone differs in their enjoyment of Smash as a series and why they personally spend time posting on internet forums like Smashboards. Goes without saying, right? Well, I'm here to make the case that Smash 4 brought fanbase members to a crossroads in their enjoyment of some game elements, based partly on factors inevitable 15 years into a series and also on consciously changing attitudes. This post is not meant to argue that one way of enjoying the series is better than any other, but rather to explore how the fanbase got to where it is today and how it could proceed, with implications for K. Rool and the Kutthroats.

In the wake of Melee, Smash had the allure of being not just a newly-popular series but one with a vast amount of untapped potential. Going into Brawl, there were scores and scores of big-time Nintendo characters and content to include from games recent and old, from veteran and new series, and on a more-modern console that was doing gangbusters at the time.

With that surplus of options in front of them, people really started having fun making support groups to post why their preferred character ought to become playable and advocating for their inclusion (more on the efficiency of that later). Users not only rallied behind people like Diddy and Dedede and shared how they might play, based on their history of appearances, but also built grassroots support for more obscure options like Geno. Later on, once the demos started hitting stores, people also spent time analyzing gameplay footage to see how the mechanics compared to Melee. Fun fact: People saw tripping and had no idea what the hell was going on, to the point of deeming it "ink-dropping" as an advanced technique.

You might be asking yourself how any of this differs from Smash 4's speculation scene; there are several answers. Compared to Smash 4 and onward, there were only two Smash games to give precedent for roster picks. The sky was the limit in terms of who you could suggest while being taken seriously, without much talk of who was likely based on patterns. There were also so many big-name characters left that vocal character support was the norm among fans. Everyone had at least a few characters they were particularly passionate about seeing playable, and many got their wishes. Brawl's roster did end up getting flack, but from my experience, that was less due to the characters chosen and more because fans' expectations had gotten so high, they were expecting a roster count in the high 40s or low 50s (the unlockables being largely veterans threw people for a loop).

So, to touch back on the "enjoyment" angle, Melee left most fans satisfied with gameplay — it is full-on revisionist history to say people thought Melee was "too hard" before Sakurai made that claim — but wanting in terms of characters and content. Going into Smash 4, on the other hand, people were relatively happy with the latter and openly critical of the former. Tripping was essentially, and deservedly, considered a meme in terms of a terrible choice, and people had no shortage of character-specific gameplay complaints to offer. "Who on earth balanced Meta Knight that way?" "Why does Dedede invalidate multiple characters with chaingrabs?" "Why do Snake's hitboxes stretch out -that- far?" And so on. On the whole, character support had taken a backseat to mechanical balance fixes (a not-insignificant number of people professed Brawl would have been their personal "perfect Smash" if not for the gameplay).

That's not to say the focus on characters evaporated — there were still a handful of characters people supported in a way reminiscent of that Brawl era — but changes were starting to creep in. The existing characters already satisfied a good chunk of fans to the point where fewer were invested in newcomers, fewer of which were widely agreed-upon. Instead, the people who stuck around on forums, and the new posters who read the terrain, had fun debating who was and was not likely. By far the biggest emerging area people would look to in these debates was upcoming releases. The focuses on likelihood and releases weren't altogether new phenomenons, but it quickly reached a point where most people's perception of a character's likelihood linked directly to how promotional of a new game they could be. Not coincidentally, the scene had reached a state where not many were bothering to build up support for Geno-esque characters anymore. Why bother? They're irrelevant! Can't promote a thing! Not going to happen!

Concurrently, people's perception of uniqueness changed from pre-Brawl to pre-Smash 4. In the aftermath of Melee, proving a character's uniqueness more or less meant demonstrating that that character couldn't or wouldn't be a clone. As Smash 4 and its newcomer reveals got underway, however, "unique" came to mean that a character would bring their own gimmick, mechanic or prop (my observation: people who tout uniqueness but struggle with moveset-making promote candidates by saying "He/she/it would hit you with <insert prop name here>"). In that way, uniqueness started becoming a cudgel people would use against characters they felt didn't measure up (inter-franchise character wars contributed). An increasing number of people also would start proclaiming that "they didn't care" what characters were added so long as they were "fun to play," a metric often mentioned in the same breath as uniqueness.

In the end, Smash 4 and its DLC were released with all but a single-digit number of big-name requests, gameplay that was almost universally considered an improvement from Brawl, and a large amount of miscellaneous content across two systems. In other words, the series reached a point where a majority of online fans no longer desired different characters or gameplay than what they'd ultimately received. Sure, already-satisfied people had and still have their personal wishlists, but on a broad scale there's not much investment in new content added so long as it's "fun/unique." Users along these lines often debate likelihood/new games to a fault and then get blown away by newcomers who fall outside those criteria, who in turn make the users even more satisfied. In my observation there's a lot of overlap between these users and the ones who will very quickly become unhappy upon mention of the mere prospect of character cuts. ("How dare you! Someone out there enjoys those characters!")

Where does the crossroads come into play? Well, as more and more people become satisfied with Smash as-is, it becomes easier and easier to look upon anyone carrying on that Brawl era of concerted support group advocacy as alien. I think there's a misunderstanding in place that anyone who vocally supports anything new or different in Smash necessarily is criticizing what is there. That's not always the case (though criticism isn't inherently a bad thing either), it just can come off as such when the lion's share of those posters' comments are about what -isn't- in the game that they want included, versus what -is- in the game that they like already. It is worth noting that, as Smash becomes more of a behemoth, for worse and better, these sorts of advocates have more of an incentive to pipe up; if they get their way, it's on a larger scale, with a greater payoff for characters and series in particular.

But with propositions for change becoming rarer and rarer, it becomes easier for the majority to dismiss loud requests for K. Rool or Ridley as ravings from unappreciative lunatics, or shoot down anyone calling for gameplay closer to Melee's as part of a "vocal minority" stuck in 2001. That, of course, can turn people in that minority defensive, demeaning those who don't share their desires as "sheep" or "apologists." The majority responds by smearing whole fanbases as "toxic," hoping <insert request here> doesn't happen "so their fans will explode," or policing "hype" for indicators of "salt." On and on the vicious cycle goes, and completely needlessly. The two groups are perfectly capable of enjoying the game and lead-up in their own styles, even though their approaches to the game don't align as they once appeared to.

I should probably mention here that after Smash 4, people should reframe how they think about the internet posts they make advocating for a character or change in Smash. It's been known since 2008 that Nintendo people like Nate Bihldorff lurk Smash sites, and it's a safe assumption that some requests get back to the developers once they become repeated a certain amount — anything from the huge push to remove tripping to more recent minor things like Sakurai being aware of the perception he favors his own Kirby games and Fire Emblem. But given the confirmation post-Smash 4 that the series' design documents are finalized years before the titles are announced, online Smash requests really only matters in terms of influencing the -next- game, maybe DLC or a ballot nowadays in lucky cases. Given the paucity of Wii U era content, there's a chance Smash Switch will break that trend, but that's something we'll only know for sure once the post-game interviews come out.

To wrap this massive wall-of-text up, I think it would be an interesting fanbase experiment to bring onboard a new Smash director who announces he's pulling a Thanos and wiping out half the roster, without naming which characters are getting cut. Would that knowledge cause the fanbase to revert back to its Brawl iteration and start focusing again on the characters and the nuances of their movesets in "the greatest character game in the world?" How would the pressure of a telegraphed smaller roster affect how newcomers are assessed? To what degree would fans apply the patterns or knowledge they've developed (or think they've developed) this far into Smash's lifespan if the series were, for all intents and purposes, getting rebooted?

For me personally, though I have no interest in speculation outside of K. Rool and Ridley-specific stuff, those would all be questions I'd enjoy seeing answered somewhere down the road.
I think fhat Source Gaming and the insights they have given in Sakurai's thoughts with their Famitsu translations fits into this somewhere. On one hand, fan rules have faded since Cloud, but on the other hand the grip of the dogmas on what we know of Salurai directly on roster deciding has increased and the promotional aspect/recency is a pretty big player in this.

People put less money on so-called patterns, as the famous "Ike will be cut for the New Fire Emblem Guy" and the "Third Parties must be this or that" have both been Smashed spectacularily. The new gospel is what comes straight from Salurai's mouth: Uniqueness and Recency and the latter has put a dent on character supports that aren't bandwagons from new releases.

The Ballot and its surprising result also turned the commonly perceived hierarchy of popularity upside down, so with popularity not being what it seems, the only factor the fanbase can depend on 100% is cold hard release dates and measuring what's "too early" and what "will miss the boat"

I think the window between Smash Switch and Smash 4 DLC, coupled with the less-than-a-year long "hype cycle" is too short to base a general direction off, but grassroots has made its way for what Smash 4 base speculation would denounce as "Flavor-Of-The-Month".

Especially since a common pessimistic outlook is that ye olden Nintendo All-Stars are all gone, so potential newcomers are mostly either new or third party (with Third Party speculation enjoying the Cloud Strife shock and the freedom gained from it)

Also this speculation period feels like the epilogue of Smash 4's absolute flame wars. People are taking it chill this time.
 
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SuperiorYoshi87

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Yo they referenced the DKC TV Show in Tropical Freeze Switch apparently.
I'm happy.
Wow, so in this port they made the first new Animal buddy since DKC3, and referenced the TV show... if Retro does make a 3rd DK at this point I'm expecting it to be incredible..... I'm really hoping this port isn't a case of giving us a DK game on Switch because there won't be another one coming.... I don't think it is because there's too many clues that point to a new one but still...
 

-VictoriaJustice-

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What if I told you...

I actually had a friend who playtested SSB5 and took this screenshot for me?



Want to post this on GameFAQs now.
 

Mysteltainn

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There does appear to be considerably more buzz for King K. Rool than say, the Brawl days when we were just few. I think we've gotten to a point where King K. Rool is being waved in front of Sakurai's face so readily that to ignore him now would be to ignore him for good. In other words, this might be his best chance ever to get into Smash, and if Sakurai doesn't seize the chance now, then it's hard to say what the future will hold for the King unless he appears in the next DKC entry.

Either way, I'd like to hear Sakurai's reasoning for neglecting him all this time, particularly if he does not get into Smash 5 as well. The relevancy card can only be used for so long. The reality is, King K. Rool is immensely popular despite relevancy and has very easy move-set material to work with. Failing to add him now would mean there is more to the story than we know, and that Sakurai has other reasoning for not adding him, perhaps akin to Ridley?

One thing is for sure; the demand for K. Rool is higher than ever. If the demand sounded like a distant chant across the gloomy waters back in the Brawl/Smash 4 days, then the demand at present-day must sound like a piercing shout that pulses through Sakurai's veins. I feel that soon we are either going to finally get him, or finally get our answer as to why not.
 
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pupNapoleon

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Im already sooo far behind in the speculation of individual character threads! I guess it is that or stop producing video content. Hope some of you can enjoy, I'll be doing K Rool soon after this Marvel Video series launches.
 

DarkFoxTeam

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You can tell PAON took a lot of inspiration from the DK cartoon when they redesigned K. Rool. No tail, small crown, less pronounced eye, while K. Rool had a gold belly in the show it wasn't like the games and was more yellowish.

PAON K. Rool is cartoon K. Rool with a longer cape
I never made that connection before. You're definitely right when you say it's taken inspiration from the cartoon and it helps that the show was popular in Japan. Regardless, I still think his golden belly should be a standard. He just seems so weird without it. I think someone here said it best. He seems... Naked lol.
 
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BluePikmin11

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Donkey Kong Country 2's gameplay is incredibly tight and insanely good so far. I love the apocalyptic setting DKC2 starts with. The game design and music puts me in a right mood. Only thing I do not like is how slow throwing objects still is, but man, I am SO MOTIVATED to beat this badly.
 
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DarkFoxTeam

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2013
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Something I've heard recently that I felt like sharing here is a funny idea for a taunt King K. Rool should have. I forgot where I saw it, but someone mentioned how K. Rool's original portrait from DKC should be his down taunt. I find that absolutely hilarious. Just imagine someone SD'ing and a player does this as a taunt. That'd crack me up.

 

verysleepywolf

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Jun 17, 2013
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I would love to see K Rool, but I don't really know if I'd use him. No doubt he would be a unique heavy-weight. Not many villains strike such a balance between gritty/grotesque and comic relief. He has great costumes as well. But I more or less want him in the game just because it's K Rool and those were the good ol days.

I don't expect to see him in SSB with the current direction of the DKC series. There are too many still relevant DK characters that will take priority over K Rool. I'd expect Dixie sooner. Really hope they bring K Rool back into a new DKC game.
 
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