Janon social thread : Lair of the Floating Back Slapping Missile Reflecting King of Evil

[teluoborg]

And now I realize that DBZ is rigged because Goku plays with 4 stocks while everyone else has only 1 (or 2 if you're a main character).

And Yamcha is that guy that dies at 0%

 

[Yanoss1313]

Except in reverse. DBZ makes 5 minutes take 20 hours to show us. While Project M makes 20 hours feel like 5 minutes.

So clearly, we should watch DBZ and play Project M at the same. So that time flows normally.

i think you might be onto something there... we need to science this! STAT!

 

[Yanoss1313]

And now I realize that DBZ is rigged because Goku plays with 4 stocks while everyone else has only 1 (or 2 if you're a main character).

And Yamcha is that guy that dies at 0%

lol, and chow tsu is the guy that tries to win through ganocide but dies first >.<

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

yamcha... stuck in super sudden death mode dying in one hit

 

[Gamegenie222]

So Merry Christmas Ganondorf players. I've never posted in the Ganon boards before till now so sup and Ganon was my first Project M main since it came out back when flame choke was untechable and you used to blow through people's get up attacks with Wizards Foot If I recall correctly. So anyway what do you think of Ganon's changes in 3.0 cause I love them personally especially with the B-Reversable Wizards Foot?

 

[teluoborg]

I don't know if it's specific to 3.0, but I love how Bowser's so big, you can catch him with backwards with side B while he's teching. Easiest chain choke ever, you don't even have to guess/read the tech.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

ay yi yi.
i didnt know zard could give ganon such a hard time, but between that n-air, getting juggled and his friggin glide attack what i couldnt challenge (which i later found out i could counter with my u-air and well placed b-air) i got kinda wrecked. any tips? besides the no low ceilings rule?

 

[CORY]

don't let zard camp you from above a platform (i.e. you're below it, he's above it, waving that nair all over in your face).

ok, not really that helpful, but it is annoying.

you can't really dthrow chain zard, but you can do melee shiek setup bs from it really simply. dthrow-fair for offstage setups/kills or dairs to setup wizkick/slamjam chases at lower percents. your fair also outranges everything he has other than nair/bair(?).

i was finding ftilt as a spacing tool after a jab or from neutral to be really helpful, but if the zard figures it out, he can probably play the same game back at you with his own f/dtilts. it is something to change the pace of the match, though.

 

[batistabus]

Official, and I assume PMBR approved, Apex PM 3.0 rule set.

• If the match goes to sudden death due to a suicide move (Ganon’s side-B, Kirby/DDD’s swallow, holding someone in a grab on a platform as it moves out of the boundaries, etc.), the one who initiated the move wins.

So....why again?

 

[teluoborg]

The ganoncide clause is kind of universal by now, it had only been removed from the ruleset for a short while in Brawl and then everyone decided to put it back.

The thing I don't understand is this platform going out of the boundaries stuff. I don't see how that's relevant since if you're the one who did the grab you can throw your opponent towards the blastzone so he always dies first ? Are the TOs at Apex not trusting the player's ability to time their moves ?


Also do you guys have a gameplan when you play Ganon ? I've been playing PM a lot these past 3 days and right now my gameplan looks like this :
-Dash dance a lot
-Space with WDFtilt, Nair and Bair when the setting is neutral
-add in side B, Dair and Fair when I'm applying pressure
Stay as close to the ground as possible when getting combo'd and wait for the occasion to CC Dtilt or jab.
-Punish spacing mistakes with side B, make the chain choke last as long as possible.


My setup for chain choking : after a successful side B immediately start a dash towards the center of the stage.
-If they tech roll towards the center then side B
-If they tech roll towards the ledge or tech stand then B reverse your side B (it can also catch the slower tech rolls towards the center)
-If they don't tech then dash dance and dash attack back to them
-If they take an habit of not teching just down B.

Thoughts ?

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

step 1: hit them-> did they die? yes-> do it again until you win.
no?-> go back to step 1.

 

[Gamegenie222]

I just go ham and whiff punish along creating fear off of Flame Chokes into Wizards Foot, Dair and DACUS.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

My gameplan at this point is basically just to clear my head and avoid any thoughts of a gameplan. Whenever I try to come up with a strategy, my game just devolves into repeatedly trying to force one option instead of just reacting and punishing.

It's a serious problem during tournaments. My last match was pretty much just me spamming DACUS like a mad man.

 

[Nguz95]

My gameplan at this point is basically just to clear my head and avoid any thoughts of a gameplan. Whenever I try to come up with a strategy, my game just devolves into repeatedly trying to force one option instead of just reacting and punishing.

It's a serious problem during tournaments. My last match was pretty much just me spamming DACUS like a mad man.

If you don't mind, I would like to share my own opinions about game plans, as I think this conversation is important. Your game plan should not be related to a certain move, but rather, a certain style of play. Your game plan should allow you to dictate the pace of the match through your actions, ultimately making you as comfortable as possible.

Say I'm a really fast, aggressive Ganon. I like to waveland a lot, and I go deep offstage sometimes because I want to end stocks as early as possible My game plan should be:
I'm going to assert my dominance from the get go. I'm going to apply pressure and try my hardest to get my opponent off balance, because that's how I get kills. However, I won't overcommit myself, since that gets me punished. I'm going to space well, trap my opponent and force him to act the way I want to

Now lets say I'm a slower, methodical Ganon. I rely on baits, and I try to punish my opponent for overcommitting as often as possible. my game plan should be: I'm going to feel out my opponent for the first minute. I'll throw out an Arty Vortex or a well-spaced fair to see how he reacts, and then next time I'll capitalize. I will study their movements and try to find the points when they leave themselves vulnerable. Then, I will act in a way that encourages them to act predictably.

Both of these mindsets are true game plans. They have little or nothing to do with moves or tech skill. The strength in these game plans is they allow you, the player, to be as comfortable as possible. Providing a loose flowchart for how you will act during the match is incredibly powerful, as it can both get you started in the right direction and bring you back to normalcy when you find yourself off-balance.

Although this kind of game plan can help you work around your own physical limitations, it is most effective when you have complete mastery over your character. When you have access to all the options, you can devise a game plan that is both specific and general at the same time. If you're aggressive, having every possible approaching tool at your disposal will allow you to adapt to how your opponent defends. If you're passive, being able to bait in each and every known way will help you tailor a setup that exposes your opponent's flaws.

While this may sound daunting at first, Smash is not nearly complicated enough that you'll never be able to analyze every situation. Comfort with your own character, coupled with a little experience with the type of opponent you are facing, can help you devise a simple, effective strategy that fits inside your game plan as soon as you notice your opponent's habits. There are no ridiculous mind games or intense analytics involved, rather, basic observational skills and a little experience.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Gamegenie222]

The hell is a Arty vortex?

 

[Nguz95]

Lol sorry. It's a nair that you fast fall, which makes you auto cancel the aerial. It's considerably faster than the regular shffl, and it lets you follow up with a jab or an ftilt, making it a great spacing and baiting tool.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Your game plan should not be related to a certain move, but rather, a certain style of play.

Spamming DACUS is totally a style of play.

Anyway, I see what you're saying and it makes sense, but all I was really trying to get across is the fact that the moment I start thinking about playing in a specific manner things go downhill.

If I just clear my head and go with the flow I play much more effectively. I can much more easily transition between methodical and aggressive, I can dictate the pace of the game, and I just play significantly better overall. Any thought into my play-style/game-plan sends me down the path of over-thinking, which seems to always spell disaster. I feel that it's bad enough to the point where my strategy has to be not having a strategy.

Does this happen to anyone else?

 

[Urielhelix]

Same thing happens to me so much. The more i try to deliver the ass kicking i just get it kicked. I take the earth bender approach. wait and Listen. feel the attack, and react with a calm mind.

 

[| Kailex |]

I dont know how I play, I dont remember anything

 

[Yanoss1313]

i know when i'm flustered i usually start spamming retreating Fairs, not always the best option, but it can give you a moment or two to re-compose yourself.

 

[teluoborg]

That brain shut down thing happens to me sometimes, it used to happen a lot more in Brawl tho.
I feel I play much better if I keep thinking, most of the time I'm just focusing on not getting hit and it prevents me from going yolo too much.
Though it doesn't always work and I often end up edgeguarding with aerial wizkick (protip : don't do it if you're not 2-3 stocks ahead).

I used to follow VHoe242's flowchart (punch things until they run out of stocks), but this week end I played against a very good player that used to play Marth and Roy in Melee, and a gameplan is the only thing that kept me from getting 3-4 stocked, because there are things that simply won't work against good players (farewell Fair spam, I've always loved you :'/ ).

So yeah, I simply follow Isai's words of wisdom and try not getting hit, and Nair, Ftilt and Bair happen to be Ganon's safest moves right now (good range + low lag).

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

[collapse=Ganondorf Change List]
-Ganondorf always wins when he suicides with Side B
-Up/down aerial item throw animation heights have been adjusted
-Aerial Down B can be edgecanceled[/collapse]

-Ganondorf always wins when he suicides with Side B

-Ganondorf always wins when he suicides with Side B

-Ganondorf always wins when he suicides with Side B

 

[Urielhelix]

I JUST SCARED THE **** OUT OF MY GIRL FRIEND!!!!! GANONDORF SUICIDES!!!!!!!!

 

[teluoborg]

Also
-Aerial Down B can be edgecanceled

A way to use Wizkick in the air without having to suffer the landing lag ? If that isn't a reason to swag out to the max, I don't know what is.

 

[Nguz95]

I think that's actually much more useful than it appears. Now, as long as you edge cancel, you can make getting back down to the stage much safer. That's pretty big for a character that falls slowly and is really large.

 

[Gamegenie222]

OMG this sounds godlike time to gimmick folks out even more.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

It's like a really situational/location-dependent QAC. Not sure how useful it will be once the surprise factor is gone, but it sure is cool tech. Can't wait to see what uses for it we can come up with.

 

[Nguz95]

probably good for continuing combos off of platforms. Imagine coming down from the top plat in battlefield and ledge-canceling off of one of the lower ones. That sounds pretty nice.

 

[teluoborg]

It will at least give you the option to use wizkick when in the air without risking to get punished if you don't hit your opponent.

 

[leelue]

As your official lord and master Ganon I hereby decree that the term "arty vortex" for Nairing is stupid.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

As your official lord and master Ganon I hereby decree that the term "arty vortex" for Nairing is stupid.

I agree. For the longest time, I just thought "Arty Vortex" was the guy's nickname or something.

If it needs a title, we should give it one that's at least somewhat descriptive.

 

[teluoborg]

How about SHFF Nair ? Like, that's exactly what it is. You don't even have to L cancel.

 

[Nguz95]

Yu just a hater leelue. The vid showed up in the social thread ages ago, and the guy who posted it said it was the arty vortex. Let's keep it.

 

[Gamegenie222]

I've never seen this Arty vortex though

 

[teluoborg]

Yu just a hater leelue. The vid showed up in the social thread ages ago, and the guy who posted it said it was the arty vortex. Let's keep it.

Ok let's reflect on if we should keep it or not :
+ It sounds cool
- It doesn't describe what it is
- It's not a vortex
- It's not even an AT

So the Arty Vortex is just spacing with Nairs. It doesn't require a name or else we'll soon be naming everything we do with cool names and no one will understand what we'll talking about.

Dibs on the "telu vortex" for SHFF Bairs and the "telu 180 Rolex swag destroyer" for Dthrow to reverse Bair.

 

[Nguz95]

Nobody had thought about using the autocancel windows on nair until Arty started beating good players with it. If you don't want to call it that, fine, but at least give the man credit for advancing Ganon's metagame.

I've never seen this Arty vortex though

Here's a good match that showcases the vortex:

 

[teluoborg]

So I'm gonna have to call it "SHFF Nairs as first shown by Arty™" ? I know that Arty is a good player, but I just want to talk about Ganon's gameplay and know I'll be understood.

And it's still not a vortex.
A vortex has to do with forcing your opponent to guess right after a sequence in order to not be hit by the same sequence again.
Tech chasing a side B with another side B is a vortex.
Spacing with Nair is not a vortex.

If you really really want to show your admiration for Arty every time you're speaking at least call it the Arty Spacing or the Arty Nair, so that people don't get misguided.

 

[Nguz95]

"SHFF Nairs as first shown by Arty™"

Now that's a quality name. The trademark is a nice touch.

 

[Anonistry]

Obviously you could split the difference and call it the SHFFArty...

 

[Nguz95]

He be SHFFArting.

I see what you did there…