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Isaac (Golden Sun) in SSBB thread

Bassoonist

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Could you maybe just leave this topic if you can't stay on topic? Go take your little 35 character roster support somewhere else. I don't care if you support it or believe it's true, however can you stop bothering us Isaac fans? It is not proven true at all.

The Melee roster had proof, stop comparing this roster to that one. The only "proof" this roster has is mock up images that are obviously fake. Otherwise all it has been is a bunch of members posting a bunch of text. Sorry, but text doesn't prove anything, and neither does PhotoShopped crap.

I can't believe you believe it... but whatever. We'll see on launch day.:ohwell:
 
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How can you not believe that I believe it?

Number of valid arguments provided to suggest that the roster is fake - between some inestimable number and zero. You can't disbelieve something JUST because you want to disbelieve it.

This bunch of text comes from a "professional leaker", with a perfect trackrecord of leaking.
 

Bassoonist

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Ok then. How about they post some proof? Just to let us know that they aren't pulling our legs? It's possible that they don't care about their reputation and are just trying to get fans stirred up. I find it highly likely, in fact.

But seriously, this topic is about Isaac. Take this 35 character roster talk somewhere else.
 
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How can they prove it? In almost all cases, leakers leak information from what they've gotten from representatives. They get exactly what they give - text. This has been the case with every leak Markman's ever made - he doesn't have direct information, but his info has been accurate. The roster being fake certainly does not matter to his credibility. The literally only reason why anyone would believe 35 characters to be fake is that it doesn't sound appealing. You have to remember that Ganondorf, Luigi, Ness, Young Link, and Falco will probably have original movesets - if Sakurai didn't give them any, we may have seen around 40 total characters, but people would be annoyed with the clones.

Besides, sp0rsk, one of the administrators of NeoGAF, already vouched for Markman. He also said Mega Man was not in and Sonic was. What, exactly, is unlikely about 35 characters?

And why don't you tell the people that were, you know, discussing this initially? Don't pick on the one who JOINED the conversation solely because of what stance he takes on it.
 

Bassoonist

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Those people are no longer bringing it up. Let it go. We'll see in a week. (yay, it's the 24th now!)

To be on topic: Isaac for Brawl!

I also really hope that a few stages make it in as well. We all know about Venus Lighthouse, but did I post my Sol Sanctum idea here? I've seen it before. I think it would be really neat to have the elemental stars chamber (as I call it because I don't remember it having an official name. :laugh:) as a stage.
 
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They wanted to end it when conflicting opinions are introduced.

Basically, a common logic of SWF is a discussion is only okay if it's discussing how much everyone agrees with you.
 

Bassoonist

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They wanted to end it when conflicting opinions are introduced.

Basically, a common logic of SWF is a discussion is only okay if it's discussing how much everyone agrees with you.
This discussion is not even relevant to Isaac. All you seem to want to do is cause trouble in this topic. Really, it is not needed. Especially when it's not even on topic like this stupid roster discussion.

You've said before that you wouldn't mind Isaac being in... Now how about we just forget about that roster and maybe you try to contribute something to this topic. Make a moveset, or something... Or don't even bother posting.
 
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So for some reason, you at no point acknowledgment that the conversation was started to diss the roster, and ended because someone was arguing for a roster consisting of 35 characters.

You only complain toward the one person who is arguing for the 35 character roster for discussing someone everyone was discussing (until the debate was lost by them).
 

Bassoonist

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Does it matter who started what? We can all just end it now. I don't know why it's such a big deal to you, but... okay...


To be on topic: Isaac for Brawl!

I also really hope that a few stages make it in as well. We all know about Venus Lighthouse, but did I post my Sol Sanctum idea here? I've seen it before. I think it would be really neat to have the elemental stars chamber (as I call it because I don't remember it having an official name. :laugh:) as a stage.
 

Arteen

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I want Venus Lighthouse the most, but the elemental stars chamber would be cool, too.
 

zagman505

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why is it that every time there's an actual argument going on in here, it's always you, link? and if you choose to support the 35 character roster, of course you'll be the only person in here to support it. this thread is dedicated to isaac being in brawl, and the 35 character roster greatly limits his chances of being a playable character, so why would any decent isaac supporter argue for the 35 character roster?? it's only common sense that we don't want to hear about anything that limits the chances for the character we like. and since this is a thread dedicated to isaac, and the 35 character roster has not been proven fact, can we please just stop discussing it in here? take your debate somewhere else please.

hm. the elemental star chamber would be a pretty interesting stage, but i think the best stages would probably be one of the lighthouses, probably the lighthouse aerie. or i think another idea thrown around before was the ship? oh, or it'd be cool to fight on a colosso themed stage =D
 

Okysho

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Personally, I've never actually played golden sun, (blasphemy I know) but my friend showed me some on Issac's attacks, and when I saw them I knew that he should be in.

there were just a few, but:

Down B: Ragnarok

up B : Gaia (rides up on the rocks)

final smash: (Whatever his level 4 summin in the first game is called.)
 
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1. Supporting the 35 character roster is based on the fact that I know that the roster is 35 characters. Supporting a larger roster is based on the disappointment of a 35 character roster.

2. Why is it such a big deal that it's discussed? Why did you only care that the discussion was occurring when someone came and created opposition to what they were saying?
 

Matt Silver

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1. Supporting the 35 character roster is based on the fact that I know that the roster is 35 characters. Supporting a larger roster is based on the disappointment of a 35 character roster.

2. Why is it such a big deal that it's discussed? Why did you only care that the discussion was occurring when someone came and created opposition to what they were saying?
1. ZOMG! Are you a prophet? What will the weather be like tomorrow. I was thinking I should go outside for a while, but if it rains... maybe not.

2. Why do you have to argue with everybody?
 

Bassoonist

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It's off topic! Leave this topic if you have nothing better to say! Seriously. This topic is about Isaac!

Can't you take a hint? -_-

and yes, practically all arguments in this topic DO center around you!

There are so many places where you can discuss the 35 roster, this is not one of them!
 
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Then why was it being discussed before I even came in here?!

Here's an idea - blame off-topic discussions on the ones who start them!

Oh, and I know it is because I know who stated 35 characters, and I know how accurate he's been.
 

Bassoonist

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It doesn't matter who started it. We aren't in preschool anymore, sorry.

Just end it right here. Go discuss that roster somewhere else. It doesn't belong here.
 

Cos.

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So, let's let debates be peaceful here (though there should only be debates if at all, strictly centered on Isaac). The question on rooster, its size and which prophet might be correct... well are, how to say, not really that relevant.
First off there's no surety to the leak. Either could be:

1. A hoax, since people (sadly ) get a kick from that
2. Partially correct as:
a) The leak the information they know, plus extra invented tidbits
b) They leak some information, plus information they know is incorrect to keep people off their tail
c) something else :ohwell:

3. Totally correct (we live in a world where much is possible)
4. well... or don't really care until release date


Anyhow, even if Isaac were not playable (well, I'm still hoping not... hope dies last) it would still be interesting to Discuss Assist Trophies, items and the such.
I for example am at least very positive we'll get some Golden Sun music.


Sad and pessimistic thoughts aside, people please make only friendly remarks in this friend, and remember the internet requires much patience...



On a side note:

I'm sorry I haven't updated the first post anymore (some people complained at times... I think, well they didn't complain directly to me... :lick: ). It's not that long till release date in Japan, so I'll let it be. You can make new topics in the Isaac boards later on ;) .

Kudos on all the cool ideas brought up in this thread, plus otherwise pleasent remarks on things Golden Sun (I'm still waiting for Camelot to anounce a third game... otherwise I could go back to playing the first two...)
 
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A preschool teacher wouldn't say "now you kids, go along and play, while I single out this one kid for participating in the discussion you shouldn't have been discussing in the first place".

It does matter who started it. See, you seem to have this broken logic that the only person that takes the heat is the one who continued it/the one who didn't finish it. Ideally, both parties get the "heat". But since the other party is one you support, you decide to target me exclusively, and say "I don't care who started it". There's no preschool logic that you've got that validates targeting one party and ignoring the more culpable party.
 

Bassoonist

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You are the only one continuing it... that's that. The others aren't discussing it anymore, it's just you.:ohwell:

I ask you.. Please, leave if you have nothing better to say.
 
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It ended when they couldn't counter my points.

So what, they get a medal for ending an off-topic discussion for the wrong reason? They don't give two ****s about it being off-topic, they just stopped because they couldn't counter any of the points made.
 

Bassoonist

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It's still irrelevant to this topic.

So PLEASE, stay on topic. IF somebody else comes in and makes it off topic again, it's their problem, however as of right now you are the one keeping it off topic.

@Arteen: I think it would be nice to have both the Venus Lighthouse stage AND the Sol Sanctum stage. Who says that Golden Sun can't have two stages?:p
 
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Then why did you conveniently set everyone aside, whom you agree with, and focus on the one person who didn't create the discussion?

At what point did you even imply that anyone besides me is responsible for this discussion existing? I have pretty much been blamed for everything related to this discussion, and the fact that your blame rests with me for the sole reason of which side I took in the discussion shows that anything you say is worth less than the dirt on my shoes, since you don't care about the discussion existing as much as you do someone debating against Isaac supporters. Hell, you participated in the discussion! The only reason the discussion was ended was because people didn't like that they were losing. Cry me an effing river.
 

Arteen

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@Basoonist: I would love for there to be two Golden Sun stages. Captain Falcon got two stages in Melee, so two for Isaac in Brawl is certainly possible.

@Cos: Yes, even if there is no playable Golden Sun rep, there are other things we can discuss. In the unfortunate chance that Isaac isnt playable, and there are no Golden Sun stages, where do you think the music would end up?
 

Bassoonist

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@Basoonist: I would love for there to be two Golden Sun stages. Captain Falcon got two stages in Melee, so two for Isaac in Brawl is certainly possible.
We can always hope. :)

@Cos: Yes, even if there is no playable Golden Sun rep, there are other things we can discuss. In the unfortunate chance that Isaac isnt playable, and there are no Golden Sun stages, where do you think the music would end up?
Perhaps on a Fire Emblem stage, or something... Lets hope that doesn't happen, though.:(
 

Bassoonist

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No. It's called ignoring those people who are off topic. Oh well, I'm done with you. I don't like people who think they are know-it-alls. I feel like I'm on GameFAQs all over again. That's really saddening.

DOWN WITH THE 35 CHARACTER ROSTER!

Anyways... Cos. Nice to see you back. We have been contemplating make a whole new topic... but I haven't posted it. I wouldn't even know who to PM to get approval. XD
 
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If you were ignoring those who were off-topic, then you should be ignoring yourself. Why is it okay for you to have gone off-topic?

And, see, the fact that I do know it all kind of supersedes your crap. Sad to know that a hypocrite as big as you exists. You go off-topic and whine about people going off-topic at the same time. I don't care that you want me to be quiet, because the only reason you want me to stop talking is because I'm right, you're wrong, but you'd look bad if you admitted to that.
 

Rhubarbo

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Check out my elaborate Isaac moveset.

^ Special Growth: Isaac tilts his swords upwards and a vine starts extending out of it. He scales the vine as it is growing taller. The vine is completely vertical, but Isaac can perfor a single jump after completing the move.

> Special Ragnarok: Isaac tosses his sword upwards. It is suspended in mid-air for a brief period of time. Tilt the control stick equal to the amout of distnace you want his sword to travel. After the attack is completed, the sword teleports back to Isaac.

v Special Djinni Equip: In Golden Sun, Djinni are important creatures that you encounter through out your quest witch heaviliy aide you in combat and puzzle solving. Each imdividual Djinn has their own effect. This move allows you to switch between the following Djinn:

Flint: This is the first Djinn you encounter. Having him equpped gives you slightly more attack power.

Bane: His ability increases your resistance to magic attacks such as PK Thunder, Din's Fire, or Water Gun.

Granite: Equipping him bolsters your defence slightly.

Mud: Your knock back is reduced while he is equppied.

Neutral Special Djinn Summon: Equpping a Djinn of course has it's benefits. See, you can use the Djinn to launch an attack. Each Djinn provides a different attack. Here's a list of each individual attack:

Flint: Using Flint has Isaac jump in the air, you can charage the attack while airborne, but ofcourse, you are vulnerable. Releasing the button has Issac home in on the nearest foe in range.

Bane: Bane in Golden Sun inflicts damage using poison, and so he will in my moveset. Issac lunges his sword forwards, and anyone hit will be poison and gradually take damage while they are affected by it.

Granite: Granite bolsters defence, so, his attack will involve guarding. Using him causes a shield to form in front of Isaac. All attacks that strike it will bounce off in a random direction.

Mud: As his name indicates, Mud will use mud. Issac lunges his sword into the ground and a bunch of mud starts to squirt out slightly damaging all foes. The mud makes the terrain more sticky.

Using a Djinns attack too many times in succession will render that Djinn useless for a rather long duration of time. Don't abuse a single Djinn, and don't abuse their attacks (which will be rather poweful and effective).

> Tilt: Sword swipe
^Tilt: Isaac tilts his sword upwards, and a few pebbles come out.
v Tilt: Identical to Marth's/Link's

A combo: Sword lunge, sword swipe, sword uppercut. Then, he holds his hand out and pebbles come out of it.

Neutral Aerial: Sex kick
> Aerial: Sword swipe with gravel coming out
< Aerial: Kicks mud at foe
^ Aerial: Sword lunge with pebbles

Dash attack: sword with sharp vines

^Smash: Spire comes out of the ground and strikes foe
> Smash: Force Orb is charaged and goes a short distance forwards to hit foe
v Smash: Quake is made in small radius

Grab, Pysnergy Hand: This may sound awkward, but in Golden Sun, many attacks were conveyed as giant glowing white hands doings various motions. This grab will allow you to hold the foe, and move them for a short distance. Think of it like Donkey Kong's grab, but you are stationary, while the hand moves them.

The grab doubles as a tether recovery with little range.

Final Smash Judgement: Issac's four Djinn ascend to the heavens as a tribute, and out appears the angelic creature known as Judgement. He has one bad *** canon shaped like a lion, and this is what the attack revolves around. You can briefly control Judgement as he hovers on the top part of the stage. Position him, press the special button, and fury is un-leashed.

^ Taunt: Raises his hands and brings boulders out of the ground
> Taunt: The Pysnergy hand is formed and wiggles one of it's fingers
v Taunt: All four Djinn come out and dance

That is all for Isaac.
 

robo_peng

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Nice moveset. I like including the Djinn, its such an important part of the game and so many people forget about it in their ideas of an isaac moveset. I would only say that neutral b and down b would need to be switched as to allow kirby to have an attack to copy.
 

Rubydragon

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It's not that people forget it... it's the fact that they seem to be too complicated to include in a moveset. Sakurai and his team could decide to include them, but they may not see it worthwhile to add such a complicated moveset to such a new character that not many know about. If they added Dijnn and made your B attacks change when you changed Dijnn, then more power to me, and Isaac for having a great moveset. If he doesn't get all of that flashy stuff...then oh well, at least he would have made it in.

It's nice to see you back Cos, I never really met you but you are still the creator of this thread, and the first to say to the world in here that Isaac deserved a chance. We'll know Isaac's fate in a few days, I'm just hoping it's the fate we all want him to have.
 

Bassoonist

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Indeed, I can't wait until we see the real roster. We've been waiting long enough. Isaac is just to awesome to have overlooked... :p

Yeah, the Djinn would make him very unique, but also very complicated. Nice moveset, though. I enjoyed reading it.:)
 

ShadowLink84

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Check out my elaborate Isaac moveset.

^ Special Growth: Isaac tilts his swords upwards and a vine starts extending out of it. He scales the vine as it is growing taller. The vine is completely vertical, but Isaac can perfor a single jump after completing the move.

> Special Ragnarok: Isaac tosses his sword upwards. It is suspended in mid-air for a brief period of time. Tilt the control stick equal to the amout of distnace you want his sword to travel. After the attack is completed, the sword teleports back to Isaac.

v Special Djinni Equip: In Golden Sun, Djinni are important creatures that you encounter through out your quest witch heaviliy aide you in combat and puzzle solving. Each imdividual Djinn has their own effect. This move allows you to switch between the following Djinn:

Flint: This is the first Djinn you encounter. Having him equpped gives you slightly more attack power.

Bane: His ability increases your resistance to magic attacks such as PK Thunder, Din's Fire, or Water Gun.

Granite: Equipping him bolsters your defence slightly.

Mud: Your knock back is reduced while he is equppied.

Neutral Special Djinn Summon: Equpping a Djinn of course has it's benefits. See, you can use the Djinn to launch an attack. Each Djinn provides a different attack. Here's a list of each individual attack:

Flint: Using Flint has Isaac jump in the air, you can charage the attack while airborne, but ofcourse, you are vulnerable. Releasing the button has Issac home in on the nearest foe in range.

Bane: Bane in Golden Sun inflicts damage using poison, and so he will in my moveset. Issac lunges his sword forwards, and anyone hit will be poison and gradually take damage while they are affected by it.

Granite: Granite bolsters defence, so, his attack will involve guarding. Using him causes a shield to form in front of Isaac. All attacks that strike it will bounce off in a random direction.

Mud: As his name indicates, Mud will use mud. Issac lunges his sword into the ground and a bunch of mud starts to squirt out slightly damaging all foes. The mud makes the terrain more sticky.

Using a Djinns attack too many times in succession will render that Djinn useless for a rather long duration of time. Don't abuse a single Djinn, and don't abuse their attacks (which will be rather poweful and effective).

> Tilt: Sword swipe
^Tilt: Isaac tilts his sword upwards, and a few pebbles come out.
v Tilt: Identical to Marth's/Link's

A combo: Sword lunge, sword swipe, sword uppercut. Then, he holds his hand out and pebbles come out of it.

Neutral Aerial: Sex kick
> Aerial: Sword swipe with gravel coming out
< Aerial: Kicks mud at foe
^ Aerial: Sword lunge with pebbles

Dash attack: sword with sharp vines

^Smash: Spire comes out of the ground and strikes foe
> Smash: Force Orb is charaged and goes a short distance forwards to hit foe
v Smash: Quake is made in small radius

Grab, Pysnergy Hand: This may sound awkward, but in Golden Sun, many attacks were conveyed as giant glowing white hands doings various motions. This grab will allow you to hold the foe, and move them for a short distance. Think of it like Donkey Kong's grab, but you are stationary, while the hand moves them.

The grab doubles as a tether recovery with little range.

Final Smash Judgement: Issac's four Djinn ascend to the heavens as a tribute, and out appears the angelic creature known as Judgement. He has one bad *** canon shaped like a lion, and this is what the attack revolves around. You can briefly control Judgement as he hovers on the top part of the stage. Position him, press the special button, and fury is un-leashed.

^ Taunt: Raises his hands and brings boulders out of the ground
> Taunt: The Pysnergy hand is formed and wiggles one of it's fingers
v Taunt: All four Djinn come out and dance

That is all for Isaac.

The only thing I can find wrong with this moveset is his ^B and his >b
his ^B since it look like since he has to climb the vines it may be a bit slow and leave him vulnerable for too long. Maybe he could summon the vines below him to bounce him up.

his >B kinda leaves him vulnerable as well since that and he never threw his sword when using Ragnarok to begin with.
maybe have it be odyssey?
it would be a dash attack that rams the opponent with a massive sword of doom.


his FS is win ^_^

Perhaps his djinn should only be usable once and then switch to the next one? Their effects are really good so i think it would be better if they were one use only and then they rest before being used again.
 

Ninja Kiyo

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I think Isaac will have a traditional style moveset. Equipping Djinn might go a little too far in the strategy realm for a game based on quick reflexes like Smash. I think Olimar has already filled the "strategy" type character position in Brawl, with the switching around of Pikmin and such.

Stickers, which look as if they work like the proposed Djinn, are only available in 1P mode, which indicates that Sakurai is only willing to venture that far into RPG terrirory in SSE.

It's not a bad moveset, it's just highly unlikely.

Oh, and one more thing. You know how there were NO traces of Pikmin in Brawl until Olimar was announced? Well, since there are also no references to Golden Sun yet, I believe his chances are rising! Saving up for a big release, like Olimar!

It could also mean Golden Sun isn't in Brawl whatsoever, but, if super-obscure games such as X can get a song in Brawl, then how can Sakurai completely ignore Golden Sun? Plus, the guy who did the Golden Sun music is working on Brawl.

It's all or nothing, and it seems to me that it is leaning towards all! Isaac has a great chance for Brawl.

And, here's a little bonus I made up:

 

Bassoonist

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Actually you're wrong about that. I'm not saying that your point is invalid, but something from Pikmin was shown before his reveal. Back in September in the trophies update.

 

Arteen

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That FS is pretty cool. Controlling Judgment? Awesome.

Here are my thoughts on possible ATs:
Isaac:
Garet: Casts Flare in the direction he faces, or alternately, uses Fire Brand, unleashes Purgatory.
Ivan: Casts Destruct Ray on a foe, or alternately, Spark Plasma.
Mia: Casts Pure Wish to heal everyone within a small range.
Felix: Uses Odyssey on a foe.
Jenna: Casts Flare in the direction she faces, or alternately, uses Phaeton's Blade, unleashes Light Surge.
Sheba: Summons Catastrophe.
Piers: Uses Diamond Berg on a foe.
Alex: A series of water pillars jut out of the ground, one after the other, in the direction he faces.
Saturos: Uses Heat Flash.
Menardi: Uses Death Scythe.
Agatio: Casts Rising Dragon on a foe.
Karst: Casts Supernova.
Doom Dragon: Cruel Ruin.
Dullahan: Kills everyone in the match. And just for good measure, kills everyone in the next match, too. Attacks three time per frame.
 

Cos.

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That FS is pretty cool. Controlling Judgment? Awesome.

Here are my thoughts on possible ATs:
Isaac:
Garet: Casts Flare in the direction he faces, or alternately, uses Fire Brand, unleashes Purgatory.
Ivan: Casts Destruct Ray on a foe, or alternately, Spark Plasma.
Mia: Casts Pure Wish to heal everyone within a small range.
Felix: Uses Odyssey on a foe.
Jenna: Casts Flare in the direction she faces, or alternately, uses Phaeton's Blade, unleashes Light Surge.
Sheba: Summons Catastrophe.
Piers: Uses Diamond Berg on a foe.
Alex: A series of water pillars jut out of the ground, one after the other, in the direction he faces.
Saturos: Uses Heat Flash.
Menardi: Uses Death Scythe.
Agatio: Casts Rising Dragon on a foe.
Karst: Casts Supernova.
Doom Dragon: Cruel Ruin.
Dullahan: Kills everyone in the match. And just for good measure, kills everyone in the next match, too. Attacks three time per frame.
I just needed to quote this post. Unrelenting hope in Isaac's appearence, nicely visionized AT propositions plus awesome humor.
The Dullahan trophy made me laugh like I haven't for some time... That's why I enjoy coming to this thread...

I was asked about a stage for Golden Sun (should there be no Golden Sun stage). Well, first that comes to my mind is Battlefield (it somehow always reminds me of Golden Sun...). A Kid Icarus level my be fitting, but not the one we've seen (and I don't know if we'll see another).
But how can you not add a Golden Sun stage?
A lush color scenary in the background. What's that mountain in the background illuminated by a Golden Sun? Did I see the Wise One flash by? Is that Magma rock erupting in the distance? Can you see the reflection of Lemurian statues on the water surface as droplets are sprayed by the wind away from the fountain they originated from? Is that a lighthouse with its beacon there, far far away? And why is the sky turning black all of a sudden?

And you want to tell me they'll be no Golden Sun stage ;) :p (I know I started the doubts... sorry)


An addition: A thanks to all that helped make this thread what is was and is: a peaceful gathering of people exchanging on an enjoyable habit.
And now back to the final week of waiting and hoping. (But we all know deep down that Isaac deserves it. A reserved shy character, who has the heart to change Weyard)
 
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