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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Bwmat

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
665
thanks for the info, Skytch, I'm gonna try that out later.

Theoretically, wouldn't he be able to NIL on any platform if you were good enough at timing his dj?

Edit: Why do I randomly get my sig in some of my posts and not others? I always post the same way...
 
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RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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lately I've been practicing wl off platform -> ff wl on stage -> waveland onto other platform and it's ridic how fast ganon can traverse battlefield that way. I've never seen anyone do that though.
Yeah I've messed with that playing by myself before, but it's impractical during an actual match unless your opponent is hella far away and has the reactions of a rock. Sure, you go fast, but you don't need to waveland off the second platform. BUT, the waveland on the platform to waveland on the ground is useful for mixing up what you do from platforms, and I would like to experiment with this in the future during actual matches.
 

Bwmat

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
665
I'm thinking more of a situation such as hitting them from the ledge during their recovery, and having to get over to the other side to continue the edgeguard/follow up.

I hate when stupid slow ganon can't reach the other edge in time.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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lately I've been practicing wl off platform -> ff wl on stage -> waveland onto other platform and it's ridic how fast ganon can traverse battlefield that way. I've never seen anyone do that though.
Try at PS, default transformation.... ledgedash, reverse moonwalk, jump, perfect wl on plat, ff perfect wl onto stage, reverse moonwalk, jump, perfect wl on plat, ff pwL onto.stage, grab ledge. I used to have a vid but deleted it. You can cross any platformed stage very quickly with Ganon.
 

Bwmat

Smash Ace
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Messages
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hah, I can't moonwalk AT ALL. Never really put any effort into learning though.

I really would have liked to see that vid though, why'd you delete it?

Just imagine if you did that in tourney and it allowed to get the edgeguard. the hyyype
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Moonwalking IS practical. Saying it's necessary may be strong considering the difficulty to master it and the fact that its uses are situational, but imho it is worth learning.

Afaik kage and linguini never moonwalked and had lots of success so..... up to you.
 

Bwmat

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
665
I never said it was useless or anything. I tried it a bit and didn't have much success, and never really tried again.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Lol I shouldn't have deleted it. I've just dedicated most of my YouTube page to my truck, the Ganon mobile. Lmao.

http://youtu.be/4WZhh_FOch4

I seriously need to get a setup so I can practice tech again. I hear I'm going to have a ****ty roommate this job so that sounds like melee in my room to me lol

@spider_sense when we finally gonna collab on a Ganon tech skill vid?

And @ n0ne n0ne ... you're welcome.
http://youtu.be/WwG8A84frVY
 
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n0ne

Smash Ace
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Toronto, Ontario
Lol I shouldn't have deleted it. I've just dedicated most of my YouTube page to my truck, the Ganon mobile. Lmao.

http://youtu.be/4WZhh_FOch4

I seriously need to get a setup so I can practice tech again. I hear I'm going to have a ****ty roommate this job so that sounds like melee in my room to me lol

@spider_sense when we finally gonna collab on a Ganon tech skill vid?

And @ n0ne n0ne ... you're welcome.
http://youtu.be/WwG8A84frVY

Sup

I just beat raynex with dorf

Sup

@ -ACE- -ACE- u da man

So beer
Much informative
Many gamecube
 

Bwmat

Smash Ace
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Jan 2, 2007
Messages
665
who actually throws controllers when they lose (I'm assuming that's what you implied)

A few months ago I was at my friend's house and I kept beating him in MMs (he usually wins against me), and he kept getting salty and upping the ante until we were doing a $50 MM (I didn't give a **** since I was $60 ahead and knew I would never see the money anyway), and when I won he threw the controller against the wall (my controller :() and told me to get out of his house XD. He calmed down after but it was hilarious.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Nah I'm positive n0ne's controller was giving him issues. He said something about his controller ****in up last week and he has no reason to rage over friendlies lol.

I have made plenty of ppl rage. Always fun. College campuses are like holy meccas of scrubs that think they're good lmao.
 
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Coastward

Smash Lord
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i got 9th today, everyone was telling me how much i've improved. felt good.

i might have videos soon, so yeah.

won some money matches against ranked players, lost some close ones.

sheiks a *****. end of post, see ya tomorrow.
 

Coastward

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Nah I'm positive n0ne's controller was giving him issues. He said something about his controller ****in up last week and he has no reason to rage over friendlies lol.

I have made plenty of ppl rage. Always fun. College campuses are like holy meccas of scrubs that think they're good lmao.
his R button doesnt click anymore, so he couldnt shield. gg.
 

n0ne

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Nah I'm positive n0ne's controller was giving him issues. He said something about his controller ****in up last week and he has no reason to rage over friendlies lol.

I have made plenty of ppl rage. Always fun. College campuses are like holy meccas of scrubs that think they're good lmao.
It was tourney
 

Bwmat

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
665
I see.

My controller's slowly ****ting out on my as well, mostly the c-stick.

I bought one of the new nintendo ones and it's feels so... eww. Maybe I'm just not used to new controllers.
 

Duel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
167
Wow, thanks for all of the peach help everyone. Ended up playing the guy I was talking about in pools today and 2-0d him.
Took 9th place overall, played way too nervous on stream, but still really happy about my results.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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Aug 6, 2006
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Ya I saw N0ne, pretty damn good. =D But I never said you were free though, I just said it's about time I faced SS because it has been due for a while.

And.. ya I streamed 2 days in a row so if you want some content and tricks there's bound to be some good stuff in there. I'm trying to elevate many players as a whole since I believe there's so many things someone needs to know. Keeping secrets is BS and it doesn't help anyone at all. I mean even if everyone in the world would show their tricks, it doesn't mean everyone can become super elite right away. There's much understanding to be had and ya I hope it inspires people.

Im also trying to break that vision of Ganon is only a style character. I've actually got the question "Did you choose Ganon because you want to have fun or just trying to style?" That got me a little on tilt because I wasn't active in 2014 and people believe what they see aka Bizz's Ganon. So then I said "I always wanted to accomplish the impossible with him from the beginning and Im trying to win with this character choice" All that to say I have to continue to prove he can be a great force because the masses need to be educated properly.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Kage we have that $200 MM also if were lucky enough to be at the same tourney.

Edit: good post man. I'm 100% against keeping secrets. And yeah it's time you got back in the fray dude. Ganon being put on the map is more important than style. Most of us are already fast flashy Ganons anyway lol.
 
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Coastward

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is it possible to cover falco/fox up when they aim for the ledge? everytime i try to edgeguard that option i either **** up and get hit, or my ftilt just goes through the fire.

and also, if falco double lasers from ledge, is crouch cancel jab the best option or is there something more optimal?
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Low ftilt, and even uair spike must be spaced farther out to hit that (take a baby step and get even closer to the edge before executing either. Or, dair right at ledge (facing toward center stage) and punish his MC/tech. Dair is easy to hit if you have time.

Yes, cc jab is best. Holding that perfect angle (partial down + away) where Ganon is crouching but when you hit a he stands and jabs... it works wonders. Usually results in an easy edgeguard.
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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@ Coastward Coastward You're still shielding in neutral too much. You need to move a lot more and bait Sheik a lot more. Every time she dash attacks in neutral you should be in a position where you're just out of range from her and are able to punish with a grab (cause she's likely to shield after she whiffs)

It seemed to me like you started to lose confidence over time in yourself and just started relying on doing gimmicky things with Ganon that the Sheik didn't know how to handle. That stuff isn't going to cut it vs a higher level player. React more to what they're doing. Don't throw out moves pre-emptively.

Something I have started to do in neutral instead of an aggressive fair towards my opponent, I'll short hop towards them and do a late upair. It comes out faster, is unexpected, and you get less landing lag from it I believe. The range is still pretty good on it too, so think to maybe use that instead of fair next time.
 

X WaNtEd X

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Low ftilt, and even uair spike must be spaced farther out to hit that (take a baby step and get even closer to the edge before executing either. Or, dair right at ledge (facing toward center stage) and punish his MC/tech. Dair is easy to hit if you have time.

Yes, cc jab is best. Holding that perfect angle (partial down + away) where Ganon is crouching but when you hit a he stands and jabs... it works wonders. Usually results in an easy edgeguard.
I think ledgehop invincible uair is a better option for this coverage because you have more room for error. Worst case scenario is you're too slow with the timing and hit them into center stage.

and also, if falco double lasers from ledge, is crouch cancel jab the best option or is there something more optimal?
i've been able to land ftilt before. Not sure if you'd consider that more optimal or if the falco was just messing up, but it works sometimes.
 

Yort

Smash Apprentice
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Aug 27, 2014
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Georgia
cool, gonna work on that stuff.

pretty salty with my 9th place finish, definitely coulda got 5th, maybe even 4th.

www.twitch.tv/evenmatchupgaming/v/3763916?t=1h28m49s here are my 2 important matches that got recorded, someone please give me some advice. i already know i was spamming no-impact side-b too much and i was using fair way too much as well.
Dude. That ledge hop side B needs to stop, when did you ever get anything from that during this match? I don't think I saw a single instance of it getting you a good reward for the insane risk that it has. Also, you dropped like 5 chaingrabs on shiek, I am not the greatest at chaingrabbing with Ganondorf but I almost never drop them on shiek because it feels pretty damn guaranteed. If you feel like you can't get great reward for the chaingrab just go for a jab setup or an up air.

Also you use so much down B, along with up b out of shield. I feel like this is a bad habit if you are not exclusively using them for guaranteed punishes with low risk/reward. Replace those up b's with wavedash / roll until you are confident enough in reading your opponents pressure options to reliably land up b out of shield.

Honestly though I really feel like you should work on ledgedash invincible jab or other ledgedash options. I felt like you were really lacking in options in coming back onto the stage. You went for no impact side b a ton of times and I think the rest of the times you were recovering you just did a ledge hop.
 

Coastward

Smash Lord
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Dude. That ledge hop side B needs to stop, when did you ever get anything from that during this match? I don't think I saw a single instance of it getting you a good reward for the insane risk that it has. Also, you dropped like 5 chaingrabs on shiek, I am not the greatest at chaingrabbing with Ganondorf but I almost never drop them on shiek because it feels pretty damn guaranteed. If you feel like you can't get great reward for the chaingrab just go for a jab setup or an up air.

Also you use so much down B, along with up b out of shield. I feel like this is a bad habit if you are not exclusively using them for guaranteed punishes with low risk/reward. Replace those up b's with wavedash / roll until you are confident enough in reading your opponents pressure options to reliably land up b out of shield.

Honestly though I really feel like you should work on ledgedash invincible jab or other ledgedash options. I felt like you were really lacking in options in coming back onto the stage. You went for no impact side b a ton of times and I think the rest of the times you were recovering you just did a ledge hop.
if you think i didnt get anything from a side-b, you didn't watch too well LOL.

up-b out of shield was helping me out alot throughout the day, wanted to test out new things and it was helping somewhat.

im just not conscious enough when i play to remember all my other options. im too impatient and i immediately want to get to the next game, i never think things through.

oh yeah, i wasnt ledgedashing because i was SDing too much that day with it, wasnt feeling comfortable enough to execute it.

dont want to keep making excuses though, so many things i need to work on.
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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So I was messing around with platforms on Battlefield today to practice my movement when it hit me that I can waveland off of a platform and do an aerial while also retreating. So this means I can waveland off the side platform and fair but as soon as I fair I start holding back towards the stage and I end up landing on stage. The fair hitbox hits really low, so this can cover multiple angles if your opponent wants a hasty recovery. You can even do this while facing towards the stage and waveland upair and hold in, your upair will hit the edge, not to mention the upair will cover the side-platform too. Covers a lot of options when you land on stage. You can do this as well with dair and still land on stage. I really want to try this now, because before I would always waveland off the side platform and keep holding the control stick in the direction that I wavelanded. I feel like using the control stick to control your movement in the air will allow for more precise attacks from platforms. I tend to overshoot when I waveland off a side platform with a fair, but if I retreat it, then I'll space it better.

You can also just barely get a dair out if you drop through the side platform on BF where you hit both down on the control stick and A almost at the same time. Similar to a down-smash, but you hit down just a little bit before you hit A. This way, you don't FF the dair, and it just barely comes out for one frame just before you land. This will actually guaranteed poke your opponent's shield if you position yourself correctly.

I've even got a consistent setup for getting the waveland off the platform turn around to grab the ledge. You have to time the moonwalk right as you're about to fall off, so that you only turn around and your momentum isn't lost. I've gotten really consistent with it and I hope to use it in some matches.

The above stuff that I mentioned also works on Dreamland, but not Yoshi's, because Yoshi's platforms hang at the same vertical plane as the stage's ledges, so it's not as practical there (though it's still an excellent stage). I'm almost considering going to Dreamland a lot more often with all this info about platforms and whatnot. Yoshi's is still great, but I feel like there's a lot of shenanigans that can happen on that stage, and it can be very volatile.

I'm thinking that since Ganondorf relies so much on platforms to perform well, that I'm almost even considering to not even play Ganon on Final Destination. I'd like to try out Falcon for those FD counterpicks in a best of 5, and of course in friendlies when it randoms to FD as Ganon, then next game I play I'll pick Falcon and go back to FD. Basically, in my head, anything that you can do with Ganon on FD, you can do so much better with Falcon. But Falcon ain't got nothing on Ganon's platform game.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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I think ledgehop invincible uair is a better option for this coverage because you have more room for error. Worst case scenario is you're too slow with the timing and hit them into center stage.



i've been able to land ftilt before. Not sure if you'd consider that more optimal or if the falco was just messing up, but it works sometimes.
You won't have inv ledgehop uair as an option every time. The only part of the uair hitbox that could hit (frame 16 of the uair) is disjointed enough for invincibility not to matter. The spacing of the uair means everything so I say staying on stage and simply doing a uair is easier (and you're more than likely already on stage anyway). You have to almost ledge cancel it you're so close to the ledge. And remember, hitting them to center stage is much worse than whiffing the uair as you can still edge pressure them. There is nothing wrong with that option though if you have time, it is just overkill imo in this one scenario.

Falco def messed up if ftilt beat LHDL. They should be invincible and low firing lasers. Cc jab is insanely good.

Edit:

SERIOUSLY ALL GANONS. PRACTICE HOLDING PARTIAL DOWN + AWAY UNTIL YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOUR PARTICULAR CONTROLLER'S "SWEET SPOT" FOR CC JAB. Find out where this spot is on your d-pad because it varies. You can practice it by yourself, you're crouching, but when you hit A Ganon stands and jabs. MONEY IN THE BANK vs Falco's LHDL.
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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@ -ACE- -ACE- The diagonal notches produce jabs on all controllers I have ever tested.
Doesn't it depend on the route you take toward that particular notch? You definitely cannot do it quickly or take the wrong route in my experience, and partial input always works.
 
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RedmanSSBM

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@ -ACE- -ACE- if you get hit by any move (ie: falco's laser) while holding on the control stick to do the CC jab that you mentioned, you end up turning around cause you're holding in the opposite direction. At least, when I have tried it. Maybe there's a point on my control stick where even if I get hit I don't turn around.. idk, but it's not very obvious to me. Maybe I need to test it out some, it's been a while since I've used that to CC jab. I usually use that to jab out of a run.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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@ -ACE- -ACE- if you get hit by any move (ie: falco's laser) while holding on the control stick to do the CC jab that you mentioned, you end up turning around cause you're holding in the opposite direction. At least, when I have tried it. Maybe there's a point on my control stick where even if I get hit I don't turn around.. idk, but it's not very obvious to me. Maybe I need to test it out some, it's been a while since I've used that to CC jab. I usually use that to jab out of a run.
Me and spider_sense do this all the time..... partial input.....

I believe strongly that controller vary on the sweetspots of certain analog inputs but idk for sure. They have certainly varied on the 10+ controllers I've owned.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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Kage we have that $200 MM also if were lucky enough to be at the same tourney.

Edit: good post man. I'm 100% against keeping secrets. And yeah it's time you got back in the fray dude. Ganon being put on the map is more important than style. Most of us are already fast flashy Ganons anyway lol.
Haha ya, I didnt mean any offence with the post. I'm just pointing out what's currently going on and I'm willing to change it. I said 2015 is the year of the warrior. =D
 
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