Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RedmanSSBM]

Maybe side b as another option? Ledge hop, wait for the bair, then side b to auto space you out of the range and counter attack? Side b from ledge can sometimes be a good mixup too. Leads to some nasty *** gimps.

As good as this might sound in theory, I don't believe this is a good option to counter Falco's bair. The chances are that when Falco bairs, his hitbox is already out, yet when Ganon is doing the pullback for his side-b, his arm is still sticking out and there is no hitbox, so the bair can just straight up beat side-b. Even down-bing won't work cause the start-up is too long. Invincible jab and invincible upair are the only two actual direct counter-attacks where Ganon does not have to respect Falco's bair. For all other instances, you pretty much need to respect Falco's bair and avoid it like the plague, cause the way it is angled and how long it's out and with how fast it comes out, it can beat a lot of what Ganon can throw at him if Ganon is not invincible. This is why I think doing a ledge-hop run off into a bair, retreating fair, or tomahawk if he starts shielding is better cause you're respecting the space the bair occupies, but once Falco lands, he has to l-cancel and 9 times out of 10 Falco will decide to shield because they realize their bair missed and they don't want to get hit. This will only work the first time probably so you need to capitalize on it. You just have to know what Falco wants to do to you and he's going to do basic stuff first before he counters your ****. You need to be one step ahead of him at all times. Think about how he'll counter what you just successfully did to him, and I'm sure there's a way around that method. Doing this to Falco (or any character for that matter) is ****ing huge and it makes it look like you're controlling your opponent.

 

[Linguini]

nono jason it always worked for me. obv i'm talking about in close range. use it like a jab. cc down b. enjoy kids

 

[tm]

analysis

Thanks a ton dude. I don't have time to look over it right now but I will read it tonight, and take a hard look at the match. Thanks again!

One instance where I think stomp is actually underused is when your opponent dj sweetspots the ledge. It's easier to time and space than the uair (uair takes slightly more precision) In most situations and the dj sweetspot is insanely easy to read. Its a shame it goes unpunished so often.

For real. Respect to n0ne, he will just go for that ****.

 

[Divinokage]

LOL Emilio last time I tried that, I got blown the **** up. Its a great mixup tho.

Don't worry Kage, I felt like Bam just played simplistic against you. Stay mid range and make sure you throw out tilts and jabs, you can also contest his bair with yours and obviously your will hurt a lot more lol. I'll rewatch the match so I can give you some proper critiquing. He shouldn't be getting away with that; at least not against a player of your caliber.

Sure go for it, my ganon vs falco is definitely the only matchup i still struggle to figure out exactly.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

took games off gahtzu and gravy in my bracket today, but i couldn't close it out. idk how you guys can say falcon is a fun matchup. i think it's pretty boring.

 

[-ACE-]

Boring because you don't have the matchup mastered?

^^ thia goes to everyone

@ L Linguini lets (all of south fl) travel and play falcos.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Boring because you don't have the matchup mastered?

^^ thia goes to everyone

@ L Linguini lets (all of south fl) travel and play falcos.

boring because i don't like having to crouch cancel so much lol. peach is boring to me and i'm pretty sure i've mastered that matchup.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

my videos have finally started to get uploaded. unfortunately only one my sets is up, but fortunately it's my favorite of that day so here it is. critique of any kind is welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaWPfP6UEvY&list=UUFvriOljZ6Ovcgl9OIFJVQA

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Boring because you don't have the matchup mastered?

^^ thia goes to everyone

@ L Linguini lets (all of south fl) travel and play falcos.

the falcon matchup against higher level falcons makes me feel this way. i have to work very hard to win in the neutral game, and it's a lot of auto combos. like at 70%ish it's a game of "don't grabbed" when playing any reasonable falcon

 

[-ACE-]

Make them fear your grab all all percents!!!

Damn I need to work on that thread.

 

[tm]

Make them fear your grab all all percents!!!

Damn I need to work on that thread.

FEAR MY GRABS

 

[Coastward]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY Divinokage

 

[Renth]

SSBM Training with Moltov

www.twitch.tv/Lunacy_Renth

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Cool combo of the day:

Stomp --> grab --> tech chase with dsmash --> regrab --> tech chase with dsmash again --> fair --> edge guard with WF spike. Performed on Ripple's jank ass falcon.

 

[Coastward]

Cool combo of the day:

Stomp --> grab --> tech chase with dsmash --> regrab --> tech chase with dsmash again --> fair --> edge guard with WF spike. Performed on Ripple's jank *** falcon.

im surprised you got a regrab off of a dsmash after all the %.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

It was on FD, so no platforms. It's a true combo, and if the 2nd hit of dsmash connects, I'm not even sure you can DI out of it. Lol, I barely had to move to get the regrab. Pretty sure you can even get it up until like 40% or so on the fast fallers.

edit: @ Renth , you demonstrated this to me as well. Shout outs!

 

[tm]

Just read that analysis @ PseudoTurtle , thanks again. Helps me so much when it's broken down like that.
Now I just need to get Kage to do that too instead of making gfycats of me getting bodied and sharing them with everyone... lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Just read that analysis @ PseudoTurtle , thanks again. Helps me so much when it's broken down like that.
Now I just need to get Kage to do that too instead of making gfycats of me getting bodied and sharing them with everyone... lol

LMAO I saw that. That was hilarious. I gotta be honest man, it really was a sick combo haha when I was watching for analysis, I was like daaaaaaamn.

 

[GanonMaster]

cool combo of the day? did the sacred combo with CF....

also, my shffwl are getting pretty consistant, but I need to get them to be a part of my neutral. Right now I'm just doing them randomly or run away->shffwl towards the opponent..>ftilt

 

[Coastward]

good luck at fight pitt @ tm

really excited to see you against vudujin.

 

[-ACE-]

Kage when you beat bam with Ganon in WF, I noticed a few times your SDI was off. Most times you want to DI the shine behind falco (stage location dependent... don't give him a free edgeguard), eat the obvious incoming bair, and live to Ganon another day. DI'ing forward leads to more dairs/pillar combos, as well as uairs on the match you lost on YS in GF.

 

[Divinokage]

Kage when you beat bam with Ganon in WF, I noticed a few times your SDI was off. Most times you want to DI the shine behind falco (stage location dependent... don't give him a free edgeguard), eat the obvious incoming bair, and live to Ganon another day. DI'ing forward leads to more dairs/pillar combos, as well as uairs on the match you lost on YS in GF.

SDI inside him huh.. interesting. I always try to do it directly away from how he's facing but ya I recall there was some advice here about DI upwards Falco's stuff so he can't follow up very well. Good stuff.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Man getting used to DIing things properly takes a lot of time. I DI away from Falco's pillaring but I guess I should try to DI behind him? Wouldn't that make me DI in toward Falco and make me get pillared more?

 

[tm]

good luck at fight pitt @ tm

really excited to see you against vudujin.

Thanks dude. Vudu is really good.

 

[-ACE-]

Man getting used to DIing things properly takes a lot of time. I DI away from Falco's pillaring but I guess I should try to DI behind him? Wouldn't that make me DI in toward Falco and make me get pillared more?

Depends on positioning. If you're hit by a tipper shine SDI'ing away isn't bad. Anything inside of that, consider SDI'ing behind falco.

 

[Renth]

Thanks dude. Vudu is really good.

I got double eliminated by vudu a long time ago at an event. Winners and Losers

 

[GanonMaster]

so, I practiced a bit vs. Falco yesterday. It is so hard to get away from pillars, so I'll sure try to DI against him next time

also, why cant I shffwl when battling, I get it 9/10 times in practice the pressure is to big lawl

 

[-ACE-]

It's all nerves GanonMaster. Try to be confident and not care so much. ESPECIALLY don't give a **** about what people think of your skill level. Mindset is everything.

That being said, Ganon gets hit all the time, it's unavoidable. You should ASDI/SDI almost everything at high level play, and it is good general practice. Feel free to ask questions about DI in this thread. It's very complex.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I need to get used to holding the c-stick in the same direction as I'm DIing so that I can get that little bit of extra ASDI to help me. I'm sure this would be super useful vs Fox as well, waveshining wouldn't work as well.

 

[Divinokage]

It's all nerves GanonMaster. Try to be confident and not care so much. ESPECIALLY don't give a **** about what people think of your skill level. Mindset is everything.

That being said, Ganon gets hit all the time, it's unavoidable. You should ASDI/SDI almost everything at high level play, and it is good general practice. Feel free to ask questions about DI in this thread. It's very complex.

Ya you kinda have to be willing to take some hits for trades in general since trading with Ganon = always good for him as long as you don't bad DI or just die first =P

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I care WAY too much what people think of my skill level (just can't help it), hence why I suck on stream. If I calmed down just a bit, I'd perform much better.

GanonMaster, it's all experience related. Practice wavelanding in a tournament setting = perfect it in tournament. Don't hold back on the best option just because you think you won't execute it properly. As they say, practice makes perfect and eventually you'll do it. I avoided the RLD for a long time because I kept dying (lol), but now it's my absolute favorite ledge technique.

Caps, it's super useful to do that when you're trying to wall tech as well. You won't get the wall jump tech if you don't SDI hits, but many times, you'll be able to simply tech and then up b on reaction. Obviously, my go-to is wall jump tech bair, but I can't always get it.

 

[Divinokage]

I care WAY too much what people think of my skill level (just can't help it), hence why I suck on stream. If I calmed down just a bit, I'd perform much better.

GanonMaster, it's all experience related. Practice wavelanding in a tournament setting = perfect it in tournament. Don't hold back on the best option just because you think you won't execute it properly. As they say, practice makes perfect and eventually you'll do it. I avoided the RLD for a long time because I kept dying (lol), but now it's my absolute favorite ledge technique.

Caps, it's super useful to do that when you're trying to wall tech as well. You won't get the wall jump tech if you don't SDI hits, but many times, you'll be able to simply tech and then up b on reaction. Obviously, my go-to is wall jump tech bair, but I can't always get it.

I'm going to keep repeating this.. Play THE GAME. That's all that matters. All these mental blocks are your own doing, either let it go or do something about it. Though not sure how long it takes for someone to break all the useless stuff you don't need for your brain. =P

KK: "The win, the loss, whether you're ranked higher than your opponent -- all of that is completely irrelevant. All that matters is what's happening on the screen. If you address the screen properly then you will win anyway. The way I look at it is that your opponent doesn't choose who wins or loses. They can make a compelling case but ultimately the game makes that call. And it makes that decision after taking into account both sides.

So worrying about your opponent's skill relative to yours or how the outcome may affect your ranking or how lame your opponent is or any of that garbage is pointless -- the game doesn't give two ****s about that noise. All the game cares about is what's on the screen. The game wants you to argue using what's on the screen.

So to appeal to the game, all you gotta do is address what's happening on the screen. That's it. It's very simple.

Losing isn't the end of the world. Figure out what you didn't address -- where the flaws in your case were -- and iron them out for next time."

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I spam the living **** out of upair and far and upangled ftilt vs Falcon. There are times where I feel like it really cuts off a lot of Falcon's approaches.

 

[GanonMaster]

I find it superfun to jab Falcon if his spacing is off, cause it throws em off like crazy! thx for tips, I'll try to do more wavelands tomorrow at the weekly local

 

[Divinokage]

Let me give a quick example as to why you must think only about the game, alright? Even if those examples might be exaggerated, it's supposed to be that way so here it is.

Ok so let's say you are in a puzzle room and you have a time limit. Do you really think you have time to worry about others or worry about your family in this situation? Hell no because you will die if you don't complete the puzzle in time so you use all your brain power to solve the puzzle. That's how it should be.

2nd one that I used for a long time is that i know i only have the moment in front me which means if I ever was in a sword fight then it would be now or never. If I make a mistake i imagine myself getting killed in the process because I failed at that point but luckily it's a game so there's always a 2nd chance to correct yourself and evolve yourself. You should use every single moment possible to train that brain to think along those lines. Who cares about other people, your path is what's most important! And ya if you can imagine any fight really, boxing, MMA. Do you really think it's time to worry about what other people think? Please.. you need the mind of a fighter, here and present.

 

[tm]

Love that stuff kage. The KK quote is also extremely good.

 

[Divinokage]

Love that stuff kage. The KK quote is also extremely good.

Hehe I only wish I could express myself a lot better all these years ago. =P

 

[GanonMaster]

well, I do have some years as a part of the national team in judo behind me, but in smash I find myself caring to much about how I fight. So maybe it will help to only think about yourself and not my opponent.

That's going to take some time, but if it works, it will be hella worth it!

 

[Divinokage]

well, I do have some years as a part of the national team in judo behind me, but in smash I find myself caring to much about how I fight. So maybe it will help to only think about yourself and not my opponent.

That's going to take some time, but if it works, it will be hella worth it!

It's no different in reality. Why do you have those thoughts in smash but that did not happen in Judo? If you only think about yourself then you'll care too much about how the match unfolds whether its to your liking or not it doesn't matter. Things like that don't really help you win. You have to think about how to beat your opponent, there's no other goal really if you want to win. A good balance and awareness is necessary to find the flaws in yourself and your opponent constantly as the match unfolds.

 

[-ACE-]

Confidence is everything. Look at your opponent and think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zMiuG5tdhI&feature=youtube_gdata_player