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![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Understanding this is truly essential vs Falcon and it can often determine who will win or lose the match being played. I feel this is a topic we should discuss.
Haha, I think there are other Ganons still, like @GanonMaster who places better than me in our locals. I PM'd you on FB
OK I don't know how to get rid of that smiley. I give up
I love the Sheik match-up tips man. I often forget about the need for a great ground game.DON'T DROP COMBOS. Don't drop grabs, regrabs, or punishes out of grab. Don't give your opponent free space (especially marth and falcon, in this case).
If you must, or plan to hit a shield with an aerial, always space aerials outside of grab range. Once you have enough control to space moves accurately you can bait grabs (must be very familiar with opponent's grab range)
Don't get caught in your shield often. Know which situations are safer than others when it comes to shield usage.
Oh and don't miss L-cancels.
That takes care of most things that cause grabs Imo (mostly mistakes). On to specifics?
Falcon- greatest DD in the game and you have to learn how to deal with it. Being able to react quickly is paramount. Grabs are always an option for falcon, his basic approaches lead to grabs, and he has reliable ABC combo's on Ganon out of dthrow/uthrow. You can't let his DD intimidate you into overuse of shield. It's better to know exactly what his options are, and react quickly to counter an approach when you think it's coming... in a way that does not give him free space OR an easy grab/punish (high ftilt, jab/cc jab, uair, etc). When I get hit I primarily DI down and away to try to get away from grabs and if I must tech, I will try to tech before falcon can set himself up for mindgames or multiple option coverage.
Marth- spacing or aerials is crucial and and centered around his grab range (not to mention his fair, but that's another story). His DD is almost as good as falcon's because of this and one grab from marth usually leads to a string of grabs or a short combo. If nothing else, Marth can always pressure Ganon following a throw. Keep him outside until you can space an aerial accurately or deal with one of his approaches properly. Mis-spaced approaches will give marth free grabs. Aside from DI'ing approaches away, if you get grabbed, you must DI his throws properly and tech as quickly and as intelligently as possible to prevent multiple regrabs (not to mention other punishes like fsmash).
Sheik- At least she doesn't have a DD, lol. Any time sheik is inside she can get a grab- out of jab, any tilt, or even l-canceled aerials. Then Ganon gets rekt. A strong ground game will make sheik jump more and get you punishes. If your ground game is weak you'll get grabbed a lot. Patience is really important and your approaches must be chosen wisely. DI those jabs and tilts away to prevent gimme grabs. I like to DI up and away, all the way to the ledge quite a bit. If you are very comfortable on the ledge while being pressured it is basically neutral game. Reseting the game to neutral is much better than eating a grab.
Boredom ramble.
Down tilt > sheik
1. I can't believe I still can't do it. I can do the instant uairs but not this. So frustrating.
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/s/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
do it on stream and tried to do it myself to no avail. Well I guess doing it with the initial bair was nice to learn, but I'd like to do it with dair as well.
And marth. I think it needs to be used more in the marth matchup, especially if the marth is grounded a lot.
i use it ALL THE TIME. marth is honestly my favourite and most comfortable matchup.
Sheik sucks at approaching, Cc down tilt out powers her weakling tilts
Coastward
you need to stop just jumping off-stage and dairing. You didn't hit with that once, and you gave up precious stage control with that move, and you put yourself in a bad position where you can get edgeguarded. I once did that too out of bad habit, but it's only really useful for the hard read of their double jump. Play it a bit more safe on stage, going off isn't always the best options to cover all the options. You caught Sanu a few times off stage with your fair to upair, but if he would have adapted to that, then you would have probably lost a stock cause of it. Also, upair Falcon more as an edgeguard. It gives him less opportunities to just up-b and trick you to getting the ledge. Send him downwards, when Falcon is below the ledge, that's a dead Falcon. Bair is good for pushing him further out, but you seal the deal with a reverse upair. I'm surprised Sanu didn't upthrow you more as Ganon, cause Falcon gets hella free follow-ups off of up-throw. Against Fox, you need to control space better and do retreating fairs and bairs almost all the time; make him lenient to directly approaching you. After you got those two quick stocks and the game was even, Sanu then played more patiently and you still played kinda sporadic. Watch out for that; adapting is key. For #2, yes you can do that. Full-hop dair into a double jump bair/uair and falling into another bair/uair is definitely possible. You just gotta know when these moves end and hit them as soon as you can. Just practice this by yourself in solo. You'll get it down soon enough. Pretty sure if you just refresh invincibility and then upair from the ledge onto the stage at the right time, you can cover fox/falco side-bing high. The only option it wouldn't cover is a high-angled up-b, which is definitely react-able.1. I can't believe I still can't do it. I can do the instant uairs but not this. So frustrating.
2. I don't think you're understanding me. I'm saying full hop dair, double jump uair/bair and get out another uair/bair before hitting the ground. I saw @
3. I'll try it that way. See, I want to learn how to do that because l-canceling the uair on stage won't get the uair to hit everywhere you need it. And using the regrab ledgehop uair would allow me to cover the side-b option from spacies and then I could just l-cancel the next one to cover the up-b. Or I could ledgehop onto the stage and bair or whatever. It has a lot of potential for good setups and I think it's underused.
4. I'll try those things next chance I get.
I think dtilt can be used sparingly out of a CC, but it's slow enough that Marth could even react to it and grab you. Be careful about it.
you also have to factor the frames it takes for falcon to jump as well. 5 frames to be airborne + 7 frame for nair would make 12 frames in total, leaving really 4-5 frames of punishment.
Agreed. But I'm also in agreement with Mark that dtilt offers a great hitbox as far as range and follow-up potential. It isn't a bad mixup out of CC but not 100% safe. It just has massive cooldown time and has to be used intelligently/sparingly.
True, true, I just left the jump out of it because they had that amount of frames to execute, but yeah they only have a few frames of wiggle room on actually getting the nair out, so jab is probably an option. Just gotta watch out, because it is possible to lose out to the nair/ other characters' aerials in that situation. Having good spacing is important. You might also be able to scoop them out of their jump with a uair. What do you guys think of this? Seems like a good way to waste an opponent's jump.
i'm more surprised that someone watching knew who magus was. that's neat.
I find if marth does a dash grab you can just do a standing grab, or i try to space fairs against marth and l cancel into jab or f tilt. And his roll helps too. You can actually roll around arth if he is close but i think if he times it he may be able to grab you out of the rollUnderstanding this is truly essential vs Falcon and it can often determine who will win or lose the match being played. I feel this is a topic we should discuss.
What do you guys do against characters like Falcon, Sheik, or Marth to avoid getting grabbed? Share your thoughts, tactics, or theorycrafting.
You are crazy.. lol. Sheik shield downtilt into wd OOS grab into Ganon death.. She doesn't even need to throw out much until Ganon commits to one move then she can take your stock so easily.
You can beat dair by timing your uair to scoot around the hitboxes but that's only if he's super telegraphed. Laser pressure is something that can be dealt with in a lot of ways.
but that's only on shield. i would think it'd be good in the neutral given it's range if you predict what sheik will do.
He's right, it's a frame trap. It DEFINITELY works on powershield. Cannot be stopped. Always go for it. Train it for muscle memory because you will get 0 opportunities to punish it otherwise.
What? U r a scrub lolLOL Foh @Blea Gelo Don't worry, I know that you know your day is coming, you know I'm getting closer and that scares you.
Anyways, wavedashing out of shield really helps vs the lasers, especially if you can get a powershield game going. It's typically best to keep track of the lasers that way you won't feel or get overwhelmed. Falco can only shoot 1-2 at a time. Short hop uair prevents Falco's from jumping so he can't laser whenever he feels like it. Jab works wonders up close as well because it keeps him pinned in his shield and unable to do retaliate (unless he shines out of shield which can become predictable)
You should always go for power shield up-b? What? That seems way too hard to do consistently. I'd much rather wait for my opponent to space poorly and dair/bair oos where at least I can follow up and take center stage.
Again, I'd shield grab if I managed to SDI away. That'd lead to a tech chase and other good things. Perhaps if I was facing the wrong way it'd be a better option.
Nono, he is a scrub man really
lol, like I said man. FEAR.
