Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

You'll find out more and more as you play more/different people. Just think how you look at things now vs a year ago.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

A year ago I mained Link/ Young Link and I think I had only gone to a few tournaments. I didn't really think too much about winning, more about having fun with a character that I really liked. I had no sense of how to properly play the game and I would just hit downsmash a lot and try to knock my opponent offstage while going to really lame, risky, and stylish edgeguards. Man, I was dedicated to maining those two for a good month or two. Didn't want to play anyone else. I mean, I did play a little bit of other characters, but I mostly just wanted to play the Links. I just kept constantly getting easily comboed by the people that I played and I didn't really start learning. I did a lot of practicing at home after getting back from high school, but that only helped so much.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

accidental double post.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Maybe I could play Falcon in pools or something, so that I can get past less skilled people with ease, and then when I play some of the higher skilled players, I'll focus my energy on Ganon and play him.

That's just a theory really, but I want to test it.

honestly do what you feel is right in the end haha. Don't listen to us ganon fanboys hopefully though you have a better idea of why you want to switch. don't be afraid to test things man. Maybe ganon is not you and you like falcon better. I had a friend played fox for a while before hegot competitive. He did not like how technical fox was and preferred falcon after seeing falcon combo videos. He has played falcon since and he is pretty good

 

[Clocked]

Yeah, if you feel like Ganon is inhibiting your ability to win, and you want to see yourself get better, switch up your characters, pick up a secondary or something, and see how it goes for you. If it doesn't work, maybe go back. If it does? Well there you go.

 

[Divinokage]

You're saying that you only solidly beat people that are at your skill level or lower, but that has everything to do with what matchups you're most likely to encounter in tournament. I could lose to a sheik that's only been playing for 6 months and then the next set beat the best mewtwo in the world. But I'm not going to encounter mewtwo's as ganon, in fact even a mew2 main with any sheik experience could probably play sheik and have just as good of a shot (most likely better) lol. Thats just an example but this goes along with what Kage is talking about... the importance of matchups. I play for fun and I'll recommend that you play whatever character you enjoy the most, because in the end, that will result in you playing more melee and the last thing we need is people quitting haha. But if you have put a lot of work into Ganon, you never know... you may go back, or you may want to use him for certain matchups.... and if there's any chance you might enjoy playing a character that DOES cover his problem matchups, and you were actually serious about doing well in tournament, you might want to consider it again.

Ya I kinda agree with that, why abandon a character in which you have the most knowledge for? I'll definitely keep using him for basically all matchups but its also important to have a pocket character in case a player is used to you or/and your character very well. However, I'd only recommend to counter-pick like that when you have a really good understanding of the game because if not your CP strats will be very easy to read. That's why I said to Skytch that he's the one that needs to work his mindset, it means that you understand every move, how to counter-attack, how to position yourself, how to DI, how to edgeguard, how to techchase with little risk but getting a high reward. Every little thing you master will become a strong tool in your arsenal. I'm aware a character can only do so much but have you done everything in your power to get it's limits? That wouldn't be possible because if that were true then I'd probably get surpassed myself lol.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

For awhile, I contemplated picking up a secondary for matchups. But I'm glad people disuaded me from that idea for the reasons kage/ace listed and because now, I focus all my time on ganon and am getting better faster than I would if I were also training a falco or something.

Also something I've been working on lately: light shielding on command. Especially on platforms into shield drops. I tried it out on my sheik/peach friend and it worked wonders. He used to just d smash my shield with peach if I was attempting shield drops, but this stopped that strat completely. I just light shielded the dsmash, and dropped through to a uair immediately after before he could do anything. This forced him jump on platforms and attempt grabs. But I just started jumping oos and punishing whiffed grabs with fair, dair, bair or whatever.

It also worked really well just for escaping from situations. I noticed top players like plup doing this light shield drop tactic and it works really well.

 

[cptjiggles69]

I forget who said every throw killsbut it isn't true. Discovered bowsers down throw and up throw do not ko. I think foxes down throw and falcos probably don't either. Forgot to mention it was tested at 999 damage

 

[Divinokage]

For awhile, I contemplated picking up a secondary for matchups. But I'm glad people disuaded me from that idea for the reasons kage/ace listed and because now, I focus all my time on ganon and am getting better faster than I would if I were also training a falco or something.

Also something I've been working on lately: light shielding on command. Especially on platforms into shield drops. I tried it out on my sheik/peach friend and it worked wonders. He used to just d smash my shield with peach if I was attempting shield drops, but this stopped that strat completely. I just light shielded the dsmash, and dropped through to a uair immediately after before he could do anything. This forced him jump on platforms and attempt grabs. But I just started jumping oos and punishing whiffed grabs with fair, dair, bair or whatever.

It also worked really well just for escaping from situations. I noticed top players like plup doing this light shield drop tactic and it works really well.

Don't forget you can also DI/SDI in your shield as soon as you get hit during hitstun. That's something I need to work on as well.

A good example would be if Falco Dairs your shield on you then you SDI in your shield inside, you'll probably be too far away for him to link shine. I heard Loki SDI the blizzard in shield against ICs multiple times to get behind them where they can no longer grab forward lol so he got a grab instead since ICs was still lagging in the blizzard.

I swear this game.. can always find something new to do to punish things Ganon may have trouble with.

 

[-ACE-]

SDI and shield ASDI/SDI are still super underused.

edit: let me go ahead and explain SDI. Even people that think they know it seem to always learn something.

incoming post...

 

[-ACE-]

As we all know, SDI is DI used during hitlag that shifts your character's position, but not everyone knows exactly how getting multiple SDI inputs works. A lot of people mention "quarter circle" DI, but it must be done correctly or else you are only getting one SDI input at the most. Basically, when rotating the joystick you have to pass through the cardinal directions on the D-pad to get additional SDI inputs. Say for ledgeteching, you get one SDI input as soon as you slam the joystick toward the stage during hitlag by putting your joystick into the SDI zone (and you would probably be ASDI'ing with the C-stick as well, but if you aren't using the c-stick the frame after hitlag ASDI is taken from the joystick), then once you are in the SDI zone, you can get an additional SDI input every time you cross a cardinal direction (up down left right), which will cause you to SDI in whatever direction you are inputting a frame AFTER you cross the cardinal direction (so if you cross the upward position, you aren't SDI'ing upwards, it's whatever direction you are inputting a frame later), until hitlag ends. You can SDI in essentially any direction (way, way more angles than say firefox/firebird).

edit: you can "wiggle" the control stick over a cardinal direction back and forth and get multiple SDI inputs (in whatever direction you're holding one frame after you cross the threshold, which would be really close to that cardinal direction). You must cross the cardinal direction by a small margin, not sure on exact degrees, but just make sure, for example, if you want to turn from "right" to "up", start below right and go barely past up.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I actually can't SDI very well. I wish I could. Do you guys just tilt the control stick slightly? That's what I do, but it's hard because I can really only practice it in friendlies and not on my own.

 

[-ACE-]

You're only getting ASDI if you do that, but that is enough to land ledgetechs at low-med% against moves that don't have an absurd angle/strength to their knockback... and of course it matters how the move is spaced, but only in relation to how close to the stage you are when you receive the hit.

edit: you can practice teching in training mode by throwing a mine/sticky bomb at the ledge, jumping off and up-B'ing into the bomb. You should at least be able to see your character get 1 SDI input before the tech (it would be easier if the bomb's explosion had more hitlag).

 

[Divinokage]

I actually can't SDI very well. I wish I could. Do you guys just tilt the control stick slightly? That's what I do, but it's hard because I can really only practice it in friendlies and not on my own.

It's literally smashing your joystick as if you do a smash attack but you DI where you want to with your joystick only.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

It's literally smashing your joystick as if you do a smash attack but you DI where you want to with your joystick only.

Sorry, I meant doing it from my shield.

 

[Divinokage]

Sorry, I meant doing it from my shield.

As long as you know how much stun each move has on your shield then I think you can smash it, no need to press it lightly unless you are not confident in your timing and scared to roll?

 

[X WaNtEd X]

As long as you know how much stun each move has on your shield then I think you can smash it, no need to press it lightly unless you are not confident in your timing and scared to roll?

That's basically it. I guess I'll just experiment in friendlies more with it until I have a good understanding of how much hitstun each move has on my shield.

 

[-ACE-]

Keep in mind, the "SDI zone" I talked about... is about at the threshold where when you're holding shield and hit left or right... as soon as the roll is inputted. That is the line. Same with Shield SDI I'm ALMOST certain. From what I understand it works the same way (and seems to from my own experience, Magus420 for namesearch). You will get shield ASDI if you are already in that zone when shield lag ends, but you won't get shield SDI unless you cross the threshold of that zone DURING shield lag (and then you will get shield ASDI additionally, which is less helpful but still helpful, a frame after shield lag ends). I am almost sure that shield lag affects DI the same as hitlag does, but not quite. I'd bet hundreds it does.

 

[MosthatedinNC]

Have any of y'all ever dair'd your opponent twice in midair(without him touching the stage in between)? I did this yesterday and it was a first for me

 

[Clocked]

Whoah, ****, Kage. My brother has said some... flattering things about you on your stream. Sorry.

Have any of y'all ever dair'd your opponent twice in midair(without him touching the stage in between)? I did this yesterday and it was a first for me

Do you mean hitting them with a weak hit then following up with a strong hit? I think I've seen that. It was impressive. Congrats!

 

[MosthatedinNC]

Both were dair meteor spikes by ganon(weak hit?), the 2nd connected RIGHT before he hit the platform. I've just never seen it, went for it for whatever reason.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I've been recovering high in my friendlies a lot lately because I now have a habit of SDIing the hits my opponent tries to do to get me back off stage. Funny enough, with each hit they do, as long as I'm not too high percent, I go slightly higher and towards the stage cause I SDI up and towards the stage in a diagonal. I feel that this works pretty well when you are recovering high, and even if you get hit with a spike, if you SDI it enough, you can just land on stage and tech it.

Both were dair meteor spikes by ganon(weak hit?), the 2nd connected RIGHT before he hit the platform. I've just never seen it, went for it for whatever reason.

Well that sounds... peculiar. Also, Most hated in NC? Who are you exactly?

 

[MosthatedinNC]

I am Dorsey.

Also, you're talking survival di/asdi...and di-ing into a tech. Not sdi

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I am Dorsey.

Also, you're talking survival di/asdi...and di-ing into a tech. Not sdi

"dorsey?"
I've never heard of a... "dorsey"

Who the **** are you scrub you can't dair someone twice

 

[-ACE-]

lol he did it on me. we were both so high up he got the second dair in before I hit the ground. pretty hilarious

 

[MosthatedinNC]

Clearly pseudo must be new to smash for not knowing the man, the myth, the Dorsey.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Hahaha your account name changes like once a week dude

 

[MosthatedinNC]

Hey now, my previous account was banned for posting .gifs of chicks in bikinis, then I don't post for a year, then I make a new one until someone from NC rats me out. GET IT RIGHT JOE

 

[cptjiggles69]

so how about that link metagame.... it's dangerous.....

 

[MosthatedinNC]

Yeah assuming top link play the projectiles can be tough but ganon chaingrabs him so easily, And combos/gimps him almost as easy

 

[MosthatedinNC]

Dthrow all day

 

[cptjiggles69]

poor link. he should be faster than he is. they really gave him the short end of the stick.

 

[cptjiggles69]

but this is why i think ganon is just fine where he is. he has range and mad strength,. hell he could probably jsut break marths sword and crush the space animals

 

[MosthatedinNC]

In theory ganon only has link 55/45, but in it'll seem 60/40 most times the mu is played.

I wish he crushed spacies that easy! Haha

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Too bad Ganon and Link are both pretty slow :/

 

[Coastward]

me kage and loki are gonna be at GOML this weekend, we'll be sure to make you all proud.

 

[Renth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-fdBRG0aFw&feature=youtu.be

 

[RedmanSSBM]

BluEG? I think I remember playing him a bit at Tipped Off 9.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

I dunno why but Renth reminds me of my own ganon a lot. Time to change it up.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

So in practicing today, I noticed that there re some interesting mechanics that Ganon can use to immediately land on a platform, and drop down and do an aerial. He can do this easily on Dreamland by just doing a full hop up to a platform, and then you'll not have that slow landing animation and you can immediately drop through and do an aerial. Also, on Battlefield, you can really easily get to the top platform by doing the backward full hop (where Ganon does a backflip) under one of the side platforms and then doing it again to the top platform. When you reach the top platform, you will immediately land on it and you can instantly do any move you want.

It's like this weird part of the game where landing on platforms is indicative of the body's position and the fact that characters actually land on their knees instead of their feet.

The practicality of this seems to be that you don't need to shield drop aka less inputs to dropdown and do an aerial. Now I just want to know how to drop out of my shield while on a platform and do a move, like, I have my shield up, I'm being pressured, and I want to drop through and do an aerial. How do I do that?