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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
Falco Rant time:

I can't ****ing get in the way that I want to with this guy. Like seriously, lasers shut me down too much and it really ****s up my momentum and movement. I get real annoyed when he hits my shield yet I'm not able to shield grab cause he's just barely out of the way. I have to play a totally different style to beat Falco while Falco can just do whatever the **** he pleases. I just want to grab him ya know? I can get good conversions off of grabs, but just getting them is the ****ing hard part. I could try to tomahawk him, but he practically never shields. Doing a runaway shorthop to backwards waveland to grab won't work cause lasers just interrupt that. How that **** can I grab this guy?

I can't even time my jabs correctly cause I'm getting pelted with lasers. Jumping over them is easier said than done, and wavedashing in between lasers takes a lot off effort and Falco will probably just dair/nair you anyway. I even did several frame perfect ledgedashes and he is still able to hit me just barely out of my invincibility frames. He wrecks me on Yoshi's, wrecks me on Fountain, FD, Dreamland, practically every stage. Even just trying to keep my distance from Falco doesn't help cause he can still just laser my bair or uair or fair.

I'd really like to know how you guys deal with lasers, cause I need a lot of practice in that regard.
Ii know this is old but just thought of something. His side b if you are close enough goes under the laser.
 

cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
In response to iranch Your movement seems good. Do not go out off the stage for edeguards . Play it safe and go for for flip kicks or backairs or f airs or tilts. The stomp can work but if they are good they will meteor cancel. Honestly play your ganon the way you played bowser.
 
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Coastward

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
1,560
Location
Pumpkin Hill
i wish i could play netplay, my computer is too **** for that right now though. hopefully i can get a new computer soon and get on that ****.
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
i'm going to try to setup netplay soon. the only thing you need to buy in terms of equipment is a gc controller adapter right? aside from that it's all files and setting it up properly?
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Sup guise, I got an okay set recorded from my stream and looking for some criticism and tips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Yc-X9KhO0

My edgeguarding is atrocious.
First off, I'm impressed with your technical ability. I tend to say that more and more these days haha. Nice though. Your neutral game isn't bad (movement means a lot as it keeps your opponent guessing, and you're relatively fast so that helps a good bit), you just suffer from what almost all ganon mains suffer from... over committing, committing too soon, doing moves unnecessarily that have too much cool down, etc. as if gives your opponent openings. Luckily this fox does that too to an extent and openings are available. Just try to focus a little more and try not to say in your mind "I'm going to jump, perfect waveland off the platform and aerial him"... that's too much. Instead, try something like jump, waveland and then see what your opponent does before you react. It all depends on how much time you have, and the only thing you can do to help that is to try to train yourself to react quicker.


1:10-1:11 - Do that fair a little earlier. Your goal should be to input fair the frame after you've held jump long enough for it to be a full jump. It doesn't matter if you can space it/time it better if you wait, the option to dj ASAP after the fair is most important here. Your landing lag here is what cost you.
1:14 - Good use of the DJ fair. Although you did this one from a plat dash (waveland off a platform), it is similar to the timing of a fast DJ fair, which throws people off because they prepare for a shorthop aerial, and that doesn't happen so they think you fullhopped, but then the fair comes quicker than they expected. What I liked about this decision is that you were at low%. At high% this is too risky vs fox.
1:15 - where he's up-B'ing there he has limited options on his angles. you could have ledgedropped, dj towards him and bair'd to cover all of them
1:32 - where he's using his up-B there, as soon as he up-B'd, you could have regrabbed the ledge once to get invincibility and done an invincible ledgehop uair to take him out.
1:56 - you just dair'd him. You DJ, read his roll, then you dash dance too much and don't get a follow up. Think techchasing whenever you dair a fox at 0%, unless you know you can grab them. You knew he was going to roll, just cover the option next time. Here, you could have grabbed him. One thing to keep in mind is that Fox can be killed at 0% and that is almost always off a techchasing option. If you had dthrow'd, and covered the option of him rolling toward the ledge, you have a possible KO opportunity. When they are at low%, techchasing, in general, it doesn't hurt to lean towards covering the option of them rolling towards the edge. Getting them off stage is half the battle. Getting them offstage is the entire battle if your edgeguarding is on point.
1:57 - fsmash on the platform was a poor choice here. LMAO jk dude. I can see that was supposed to be a waveland fair and it would have been spaced perfectly.
2:02 - always be ready with that uair whenever you are airborne and being approached by an attack that will hit you over Ganon's waist. In this case you would have traded hits with fox's nair most likely.
2:54 - that waveland fair was just a little too risky. You know he's too far to dj to the ledge so he has to do a B-move. The goal is to cover the possibility of a side-B with an aerial, and if he up-B's instead, you L-cancel and ftilt his up-B. In this case though, had you done anything but commit to a maneuver, you would have had the KO.

Got tired, scotch/chronic caught up with me, johns johns, that's all I got right now.
 
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cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
lmao well technically everyone's throws kill at a high enough percent, silly.

any of you guys play netplay? how about some ganondorf mirror matches tonight?
bowsers down throw on jigglypuff does zero damage. dont ask me why, it makes no sense. and really does everyone's throw kill? like what about fox and falco down throw at 999?
crap i am going to have a lot of fun playing with this now lol
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
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Lowell, MA
Adding on to what ACE said, you could've edgeguarded him if you started him implementing ledgehop uairs onto stage. See, that fox when for the stage but right next the ledge a lot, and a reverse uair from the ledge would've been easily done the job several times. And worse case scenario, you're too late and you uair him to the other side of the stage and the situation goes back to neutral with you in control of center stage.

The other big thing I noticed was that you always did the same thing from full hop dair to jump dair setups. If you land the first dair, try jumping into a waveland more often. You can use that waveland to tech chase to a grab, jab, or ftilt. Speaking of grabs, you barely got any that entire set. Try baiting your opponent to shield just so you can grab. Sometimes what I'll do is space a fair outside of shield grab range, allow my opponent to shield and then wavedash into a grab straight after.
 
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Эикельманн [РУС]

Banned via Administration
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ranch is my apprentice and i try and teach him stuff all the time. i saw potential in him the very day i started playing him and i can't wait to see him get super beast. he's always been a pretty technically proficient ganondorf. maybe i influenced him some or something.

if he drops ganondorf as well idk what i'll do, though.

also jiggles, bowser dthrow will kill jiggs at 999% iirc.
 
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Эикельманн [РУС]

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the closest thing i've ever had to a teacher was renth. but truthfully, i've never had a consistent mentor. no one has ever went out of their way to sit down with me whenever they saw me play and say "hey, do this and that, but not this and that" or something. i've been in this by myself for most of it, save about 1.5 years of renth pushing me in the right direction. essentially, i wouldn't be here talking to you right now because of him.


I wish I had a ganon mentor. Instead, I learned a lot this year from a sheik player, gravy, and doing my own research.
funny you mention that. gravy is leaving rochester and moving to down to orlando. he'll be living with me for a bit, so we'll play often :colorful:
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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funny you mention that. gravy is leaving rochester and moving to down to orlando. he'll be living with me for a bit, so we'll play often :colorful:
he was living in ithaca for the last year. but up until then, he was in rochester. yeah, i know all about that. i actually saw you converse with him in a facebook thread that appeared on my newsfeed (florida melee). good luck against him, man. your neutral game will improve like 1000% just from friendlies with his falcon.

funnily enough, me and the sheik player are also leaving ithaca in a few weeks ourselves. aside from icer, our town is pretty dead now.
 
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RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Greensboro, NC
Bl@ck Chris was the person that made me main Ganon cause there were no Links mains in NC to give me pointers. He doesn't enter much nowadays, as he has a night job and doesn't really have time for singles, he's fun to play for sure, and he does give good advice, but I wouldn't call him a mentor or anything like that. I'd love it if he could just sit down and play me whenever and help me improve, but another one of his "problems" is that his Ganon was all about being flashy and not proficient, and he basically wants my Ganon to not become that. So he's playing Fox now to help with his fundamentals and whatnot. He says his Ganon has improved from that.

Most of the "training" I've done has been by myself and playing with pretty good people in Charlotte. That's about it. It's better than nothing though. I'm sure if I lived in Greensboro, where Bl@ck Chris, Dr. PeePee, $mike, and a bunch of others reside, I could get a lot more thorough and good training.
 

cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
Yeah ihave had no one to teach for themost part. I think because i hadtoplay against faster characters in the beginning it helped improve my technical skills since i had to work harder to get kills
 

iRanch

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
62
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Orlando, FL
Thanks for the critiques everyone. The main thing i'm trying to work on right now is consistency.

funny you mention that. gravy is leaving rochester and moving to down to orlando. he'll be living with me for a bit, so we'll play often :colorful:
Oh ****, that was gravy?
 

Coastward

Smash Lord
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Nov 6, 2010
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Pumpkin Hill
**** YEAH GUYS I GOT 7TH!

hosted a pm/melee/64 tourney at york university with my EMG buddies. got 7th in pm and melee, usually get higher in pm but i did ****ing amazing in melee today.

we even did crew battles and i took 6 stocks from the other team. you homies need to get your asses to toronto.
 

cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
**** YEAH GUYS I GOT 7TH!

hosted a pm/melee/64 tourney at york university with my EMG buddies. got 7th in pm and melee, usually get higher in pm but i did ****ing amazing in melee today.

we even did crew battles and i took 6 stocks from the other team. you homies need to get your ***** to toronto.
after mlg when is the next toronto event? couldn't find too much on facebook
 

dERO!

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
84
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Paris !!!
hey guys, played a local last week, lost against a shiek again, always shieks and puffs =D
I played way under standard too i guess, but we all do when we loose, don't we ? anyways troubles against dash attacks crouchs and needles, short hops mixups, besides tomahawk got me into a lot of trouble since dash attacking/crouching shieks go under almost anything full hop seems great defensively, and to be a step ahead, but got be a bit far to be efficiently punitive.

Really grounded matchs are hard for me, I think crouching would've helped a lot, any thoughts on how to deal with grounded shieks ?
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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Lowell, MA
I'm planning a roadtrip up to Canada in late June. Are there any tournaments happening going to happen then within proximity of Montreal? Like other cities like Toronto for example we would drive out to.
 
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Эикельманн [РУС]

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Really grounded matchs are hard for me, I think crouching would've helped a lot, any thoughts on how to deal with grounded shieks ?
who did you lose to? i try not to crouch much vs sheik unless i know they're coming in with something that i can crouch cancel. it's a pretty restrictive position otherwise.

playing conservatively is really important, especially in pal since fair isn't really a thing. you should be sticking to mostly bair and tilts to deal with shiek on the ground. could be wrong, though. i haven't played a good shiek in over 6 months.
 

cemo

white walker
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MON-TREE-ALL
I'm planning a roadtrip up to Canada in late June. Are there any tournaments happening going to happen then within proximity of Montreal? Like other cities like Toronto for example we would drive out to.
Toronto (6 hour drive) usually has like, a 60 man tournie every week or two. Ottawa (2 hour drive) is having Monthlies, Montreal usually has something once a month.
 
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PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
The sheik matchup is hard for a lot of reasons, but the one I find really pisses me off is that jab is almost a useless move in the matchup. Sheik can crouch, dash attack, and even dsmash under your jab.

Cool, an opening, I'm just gonna- NOPE DSMASH

**** sheik. Lame campy ass character. Who actually wants to main sheik I swear
 
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cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
Is approaching her with fairs good at all? What if its a high jump fair so you get the further hhitbox? And yeah i noticed the jab is bad against sheik
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Apr 11, 2013
Messages
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Greensboro, NC
Good news: 3-1ed Bl@ck Chris' random vs. my Ganon. He went Puff, I lost, Bowser, I won, Samus, I won, and then Bowser, I won with both of us being on last stock, me at 100+% and him with a fresh stock, I back-throw him off stage and then immediately down-b spiked him for the win. Been wanting to pull that off for a while.

Bad news: Lost to a Puff friend who has been learning Puff pretty well. Went to FoD and I ended up losing. I tried to fair and bair more than I should have and he just kept his shield up and played better. The desperation was starting to get to me, and that was ultimately my downfall. I know how to play the matchup, I just didn't play patient enough and space correctly.


Also, as much as I hate to say it, I really want to start winning tournament matches and I just cannot do with with Ganon right now. I'll still be playing Ganon and making sure my skill with him doesn't diminish, but I will not be playing him in tournament for a while. I will be playing Falcon for a while simply because he's just an overall better character and I definitely have more potential to win with him than Ganon. I'm not saying that I'm dropping Ganon fully as he will still remain as my main, I'll still play as him and improve, I just don't feel he's ready for tournament yet.
 
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