Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Superspright]

Some basics.

If Samus is in the air she loses. I played against a Samus main a long time ago who stayed grounded baited my approaches and countered appropriately. Do ground stuff Ganon is predictable in the majority of his movements, see it coming and hurt him, hurt him badly.

Missiles are annoying, Ganon can't do much about them. Sure he can literally jab a missile to destroy it but when there's a lot of them Samus really never has to approach Ganon. She has no reason to, just camp play like a douche, bait Ganons garbage predictable moveset and destroy him.

Samus mains who think the match up is 50-50 or in Ganons favor, stop approaching him dummy.

If you pivot properly with Ganon it makes powershielding any projectile easier. It's the same principle as Marth's crouching PS--you move your body in such a way that it avoids the attack, but your shield comes up in a much different place from where you originally were.

I've done it enough to know it works and is not hard--I can PS samus' stuff fairly consistently when I am not tired. Her projectiles are not really that scary except for the fully charged shot--but that needs a setup, or a bad move from Ganon.

I only worry about the fact she can recover from anywhere and makes it very difficult to kill her.

 

[bubbaking]

And can kill Ganon as soon as she gets him offstage.

 

[Renth]

I dislike the advice from both above ^

Her projectiles are not really that scary except for the fully charged shot--but that needs a setup, or a bad move from Ganon.

I only worry about the fact she can recover from anywhere and makes it very difficult to kill her.

Her projectiles destroy Ganon. Power shield one, jab one ect. you're still in the same ****ty position you were in before. Ganon Cannot approach a Samus that knows what they are doing. Ganon is easily kited, predictable and projectiles ruin his game.

Recover from anywere? Ban larger stages and just hit her out of her bombs.

And can kill Ganon as soon as she gets him offstage.

^

Might be the most unnecessary post 2012, Ganon is extremely easy to edge guard every one knows this.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol Renth having to regulate. He's right.

Fair/bair missiles. If you know your disjointed hitboxes you can pretty much nullify a missile with any move. The biggest thing is patience. Just like vs link, young link, jiggs, etc. It takes a lot of work just to keep the neutral position since you are slower. Don't get anxious and go for something you normally wouldn't just because they're playing gay. Not a fun matchup but it's close to even when Ganon plays it correctly. Just a pain in the ***.

best samus I've played: dj nintendo. would like to play plup one day (and get owned)

 

[bubbaking]

@Renth: My post was purposefully unnecessary, lolz. Also, I'm under the impression that you're complaining/johning about Samus. Missiles aren't nearly as big a problem when you ban DL64 and make sure to stay in a mid-range zoning area where you can attack through the missile and hit Samus for shooting it. You know it's possible to hit through the missile and punish Samus, right? I don't see how you can say this MU is any worse than even for Ganon? Just bring us to Yoshi's or FoD or BF and we can't spam missiles as freely. Ganon is also one of the few characters that really gets to hit Samus for spacing ftilt on the back of his shield.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Stop not banning DL64.

i personally ban fd every time, but whatever.

maybe it's cause i play brawl that i don't give a **** about percents.

 

[Renth]

....

Complaining and johning about Samus..?

I'm stating facts and I can't even begin to dissect the dribble of stupid you posted in front of me. This is reason #2834 why I don't talk about the game. Your post was intentionally unnecessary you're the man.

When people come here asking for advice, try giving real advice not saying things like "hit ganon when he's recovering hurrrduururrurururuur"

For clarity, I talk to the best samus main regularly about this stuff. You know the one who never loses to Ganons (including Kage, RockCrock, Linguini)


edit: Please MM me at Apex.

 

[-ACE-]

You know it's possible to hit through the missile and punish Samus, right?

lmfao. is this guy serious?

hope you're taking notes renth

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

You know it's possible to hit through the missile and punish Samus, right?

 

[DippnDots]

100% with Renth on this, Samus players that constantly get beat by Ganons need to stop approaching, he can only come at her with a few moves and they all get blatantly signaled because his mobility is so low.

 

[Internalyzed]

lol
The only Ganon move that won't break missiles is down aerial because it's transcendent.

 

[Superspright]

I dislike the advice from both above ^





Her projectiles destroy Ganon. Power shield one, jab one ect. you're still in the same ****ty position you were in before. Ganon Cannot approach a Samus that knows what they are doing. Ganon is easily kited, predictable and projectiles ruin his game.

Recover from anywere? Ban larger stages and just hit her out of her bombs.

PS -> Roll behind works on Falco at certain distances, and might work on Samus as well. It's guaranteed to give a jab/grab methinks.


^

Might be the most unnecessary post 2012, Ganon is extremely easy to edge guard every one knows this.

Ganon is the easiest thing to edge-guard ever. We have no hope of ever getting back. But back to PSing...you can buffer a jump with c-stick and wavedash immediately afterword and attempt a grab. It might be a little slow, but it's a semi-approach. But once you get SO close to her, she can't just spam missles. I am weird--projectiles just do not even bother me. I honestly prefer getting shot at with projectiles--it means my opponent hasn't found an opening yet and is still fishing for one.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

5 on renth.

Projectiles are annoying.

Tippers are too. Effin marth lol.

 

[Divinokage]

....

Complaining and johning about Samus..?

I'm stating facts and I can't even begin to dissect the dribble of stupid you posted in front of me. This is reason #2834 why I don't talk about the game. Your post was intentionally unnecessary you're the man.

When people come here asking for advice, try giving real advice not saying things like "hit ganon when he's recovering hurrrduururrurururuur"

For clarity, I talk to the best samus main regularly about this stuff. You know the one who never loses to Ganons (including Kage, RockCrock, Linguini)


edit: Please MM me at Apex.

Never loses to Ganons? I'll show you how this matchup is done!

 

[Linguini]

No offense to dj but no other samus even comes close to plup's. Too bad he didn't go out and prove himself earlier on, no one cares anymore loooool.

Basically to beat a good ganon with samus you gotta play like hbox, that **** cray (gay). I never get tired of **** talking hbox lmao, the sad part is he thinks he's not camping

 

[bubbaking]

Well at least he's winning money. He doesn't seem like a bad guy as a person...

 

[Linguini]

That's not the point at all I know hbox personally he lives like 3 min away from me and goes to the same school, we have no problems irl. dont get it twisted the kid has beat my *** in finals tons of times I could care less I never played the game for $$

doesn't change the fact that his playstyle makes an extremely fun game a bore

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

this game is becoming more and more like brawl every years.

i miss the good old days. ignorance was bliss.

 

[Linguini]

basically man; it was bound to happen eventually. thing is there's not enough money left in the game to put up with the amount of obnoxiousness that has developed at a high level.

ah, it was good times, even when I wasn't that great it was way more fun.

 

[G. Vice]

I have only play a few Samus players, but I've always thought I was good at the matchup. I win against IHSB most of the time, and I know he's really solid. Would like to play Plup though, and see if my opinion on the matchup being in Ganon's favor is indeed wrong.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

last time i watched jack play, he wasn't nearly as campy/safe as plup is.

but i'll see how that's changed when i come to memphis next year

 

[Divinokage]

Im still not convinced that Samus has the advantage, if shes forced to camp then thats the kind of position shes in all the time which means usually it's pretty bad already. You have to lock her down! I'd need to test it out more with my new skills. =)

 

[iRobinhoood]

Thanks for all the responses dudes. Ill have to see if I have the self discipline to play the MU the way it needs to be.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

what ganondorfs are even giving you trouble?

 

[iRobinhoood]

Every Ganon. Mains, secondaries, friendlies, random pick, you name it. I guess it's time to stop approaching with full hop nair or approaching from above in general and getting busted up by uair and retreating fair -_-

 

[Renth]

I honestly prefer getting shot at with projectiles--it means my opponent hasn't found an opening yet and is still fishing for one.

Think you're missing the point, she doesn't need to find an opening. At no point does she ever need to approach and Ganon is always open.

He sucks.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Every Ganon. Mains, secondaries, friendlies, random pick, you name it. I guess it's time to stop approaching with full hop nair or approaching from above in general and getting busted up by uair and retreating fair -_-

why the hell are you jumping? lol

why are you approaching, either? no wonder you're losing.

post videos and i'll tear them apart for you.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Yeah she doesn't really have to approach. I saw esam do. A really annoying looking pattern of where the platform missle follows you and the ground one is a power missle. It looked really hard to deal with.

 

[iRobinhoood]

why the hell are you jumping? lol

why are you approaching, either? no wonder you're losing.

post videos and i'll tear them apart for you.

I've been recently curbing my aggro Samus. What I've come up with is that once I start a match I'm reserved and disciplined. If I find an opening and exploit it into some combo I get overly confident and start throwing out moves that my opponent picks up on quickly. I then try to force those overly aggro approaches which puts me deeper into the hole. I've only recently been learning to curb that aggressiveness and bring things back down to speed and find more openings. IMO this is tougher than any tech skill I've encountered with Samus.

Yeah she doesn't really have to approach. I saw esam do a really annoying looking pattern of where the platform missle follows you and the ground one is a power missle. It looked really hard to deal with.

You Palpi, Vman, and some Falco player were my first real *** whoopin at my first tournament(Apex 2012). Man I've come a long way and still have milestones to go. I played Pikachu then haha. Still have fun with him from time to time.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

sounds like samus is not for you man

 

[iRobinhoood]

I don't mean to come off as this super crazy aggro player because I'm definitely not lol. I love the flow of Samus and I have the most fun playing and improving her over any other character. I also tend to play the best with her. I'm not as aggro as I used to be. Not nearly. My game has become much more reactionary and observing my opponent. Just need to stop forcing things that don't work, bad habit yata yata.

 

[Linguini]

I never said it was an advantage for samus kage. It's prob even although I never played the matchup very much.

g vice i've played ihsb. he's pretty good but I always beat him quite easily. plup is on a different level of gayness, you gotta experience it. me and kage have lmao

 

[Divinokage]

I didnt say that's what you said. I was just saying I'm not entirely convinced that there's nothing a Ganon can do when Samus is being campy. You should still be able to put in some pressure.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Thought your tag looked familiar, but I didn't remember a samus in my pool so I was confused. Ill be at apex again this year, so if you wish to put yourself up against me again, maybe we can find a tv.

I have not come a long way since then lol. I need to practice now just so I can at least be the level I was technically last apex. At least pp has given me things to think about so I'm probably a little smarter.

 

[G. Vice]

I never said it was an advantage for samus kage. It's prob even although I never played the matchup very much.

g vice i've played ihsb. he's pretty good but I always beat him quite easily. plup is on a different level of gayness, you gotta experience it. me and kage have lmao

Yeah, which makes me wanna play him. My style counters IHSB, so even though he's good I win an abnormal amount of the time vs him. He does better vs others that I might struggle against. I don't know, I just feel like Ganon can corner samus easily. Like, missiles are annoying, but worse case scenario you shield and roll back and wait for another opportunity to close the distance. Idk, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Dorsey]

a few things that I think are crucial with ganon and this discussion:

1. ganon is probably the toughest character to edge guard 2nd to luigi and ness, if he's offstage you may as well let him grab the ledge sweetspot or not because he has so many options to out prioritize whatever you throw at him
2. you can punch through samus's missiles(seriously, try it)
3. reverse uair is ganon's worst option off the edge, only worth it under certain circumstances such as mid upB on mewtwo or during IC's sideB return.
4. the safest utilization of ganon's dair hitbox is when you hit falco with it offstage mid-fantasm around ganon's armpit/shoulder area

tell me if this was useful at all, i'll be glad to share more.

 

[Renth]

a few things that I think are crucial with ganon and this discussion:

1. ganon is probably the toughest character to edge guard 2nd to luigi and ness, if he's offstage you may as well let him grab the ledge sweetspot or not because he has so many options to out prioritize whatever you throw at him
2. you can punch through samus's missiles(seriously, try it)
3. reverse uair is ganon's worst option off the edge, only worth it under certain circumstances such as mid upB on mewtwo or during IC's sideB return.
4. the safest utilization of ganon's dair hitbox is when you hit falco with it offstage mid-fantasm around ganon's armpit/shoulder area

tell me if this was useful at all, i'll be glad to share more.

Please Bubbaking x2

Tell me more.

edit: Emillio are you going to Apex? Last time we talked you weren't keen on traveling anymore. I think the last time I talked to you was at Rickeys

 

[bubbaking]

Dang, what's your beef Renth? I played against BlackChris a bit at Apex 2012 and all our games came quite close on last stock. I played a game or two with Kage too. The impression I got is that the MU is quite even. This used to be one of Samus' worst MUs until Sami figured out that they should start camping more.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

In bubbaking's defense, Renth, I don't think he was intending to piss anybody off or anything man, give him a break.

That being said, his edge guarding ganon comment was kind of/very obvious lol.

Samus related note: what do you guys think of fd vs samus? I know it's a ****ty stage, but samus can't do annoying platform missile stuff. For some reason I don't mind fd vs. Marth either.

 

[bubbaking]

I can't say much about FD, since I don't really like it that much, but I feel like you would have an easier time pinning us down there. Then again, don't forget that Samus can still FH double missile.