How to turn brawl into a TRADITIONAL FIGHTER! Check it out! Pics and Vids up.

[xS A M U R A Ix]

This isn't in any way competitive, it's just for fun, so why make such a huge argument out of it?

Who knows, it might catch on and be a fun side tourney to do or something, lol.

 

[Rhubarbo]

XSamuraiX, that sounds like a good idea. Slap on high gravity to that and you have a complete traditional fighter.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Who knows, it might catch on and be a fun side tourney to do or something, lol.

Well, to be blunt with you, odds are this won't become the tourney standard. However, it would be good for friendlies for those eliminated at tourneys and what not.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Well, to be blunt with you, odds are this won't become the tourney standard. However, it would be good for friendlies for those eliminated at tourneys and what not.

Yeah that's why I said side tourney. I don't think anyone would take it super serious but it'd be really fun to do. I wouldn't WANT to replace standard brawl, but having more than one way to play the game is really cool too, since a lot of people seem to have a problem with brawl.

btw I might try to get pictures of the stages up and some matches videos up just to show everyone what it's like.

 

[Yuna]

Because the infinites aren't even possible on most legal maps in regular play. Not to mention that once again, they do not end the game off that one throw in normal brawl.

You do know that a good 1/3rd of the cast has an infinite on any stage with a wall, right (Jab Lock)? Playing on a walled stage will force us to ban one gazillion different combos and techniques because they'd be infinites on your custom stage.

It doesn't matter where you get grabbed on the screen though, both chain grabs carry you to the wall at any point on the level.

So do the one quadrizillion other combos and locks and IC-****s.

My point was that throws are MUCH easier to land in brawl than they are in tekken and on top of that they're much more consequential in this mode of play. You don't get guaranteed throws off of blocked moves in tekken and those throws don't lead to 100% infinites.

So how are we going to regulate this? No downthrowing as Falco or DeDeDe? No re-grabbing once you've downthrown? No Ness/Lucas locks? No Laser Locks? No Jab Locks? No...

And you know what's much easier to land in Tekken? Moves. Because we actually have mixups in Tekken. In Brawl we have attacks, shieldstabbing attacks and grabs... that's pretty much it. Block a low or mid the wrong way and wham! 50%+ combo in your face!

50% was a general estimation. It's AROUND that much for most characters, although yes, some go even higher.

Yet you made it sound like they were hard to set up.

You're right on the best of 3 sets. That would be a way of extending it, but the gameplay and character diversity would still be god awful because of the infinites, which was the point of the bannings.

Which would force us to ban one jillion techniques and combos and water down gameplay. We'd be back to, once more, camping. Why even approach since you can't use your devastating combos anymore? Camp it out!

So what exactly is this psuedo-infinite, and if there was one, why would she need meter to restart it? I call BS on this.

Apparently you still do not know the meaning of "pseudo". Millia has almost always had, since the dawn of GGXX, some kind of infinite that could shave a good 15 or so seconds off the timer. In the latest installations, she's got pseudo-infinites that are guaranteed to last from one end of the stage to the other. Once she reaches the corner, she can still get a good 10 or so hits in before being forced to restart it with mixup. Doesn't mean she didn't just shave off a good portion of your health and stall out quite a lot of time off the timer. Most Millias don't bother since the damage scaling makes it only good for stalling after a while.

Once again, proof? It sounds like you're just talking about a standard combo or loop.

Any GGAC-video. Watch Millia. Now imagine her extending that combo beyond the point where damage scaling makes it useless.

If you're going to bring that up then why are you even mentioning "pseudo" infinites in an argument about actual infinites?

Fine, Soul Calibur II (PAL), Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Fist of the North Star and I'm not even that knowledgable. There are probably some other games out there with true infinites.

If the games are old then of what consequence are they to this argument. GGAC is the most recent, balanced, and up to date version of the game. As far as the time out on dustloop goes, it only lasted maybe 10 seconds at the most, nothing close to the 99 seconds on the clock.

Why can I only mention the newest ones? I simply said "There are plenty of traditional fighters out there with infinites of some kind that were never banned". The fact that they're now gone doesn't mean they weren't once around and not banned.

And since when does Sol Bad-Guy's dust loop only last for maybe 10 seconds at the most? What GGXX were you playing, anyway?

 

[Snakeyes]

I'd rather play a real traditional fighter, thank you.

 

[Wolf of Ice]

Yuna, if you don't like his idea, don't use it. Why come and argue? Some people may like his idea. Some may use it. Brawl doesn't have always have to be competitive. If people have fun this way, why do you come and try to change what they're doing? You've voiced your opinions. xS A M U R A Ix has read them and disagreed. Why continue?

Edit: And @Ryancbigfoot, If you grab the edge, tethers don't work. So.... They're very easily gimped.

 

[Ryancbigfoot]

Uh im all about opinions here but I think most people do not want a traditional fighting game when they paly brawl, and tether recoveries are good if you are not to far from the edge of the stage.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Alright this is the last time I'm responding to the Yuna arguments. Most of this has gotten completely off topic so far but I'd like to add some closing points so bear with me, people who don't care, lol. I'd like this to get back on topic of what people actually think of the mode / suggestions.

You do know that a good 1/3rd of the cast has an infinite on any stage with a wall, right (Jab Lock)? Playing on a walled stage will force us to ban one gazillion different combos and techniques because they'd be infinites on your custom stage.

I already stated that in the rules. No laser locks (that includes jab locks), no inescapable attack infinites like fox's shine infinite, everything else that's techable / DIable is legal. That's it. Man what a hojillion techniques that was. The game's gonna be ruined because everyone relies on these techniques so much. It just won't be the same. [/sarcasm]

So how are we going to regulate this? No downthrowing as Falco or DeDeDe? No re-grabbing once you've downthrown? No Ness/Lucas locks? No Laser Locks? No Jab Locks? No...

Already covered that, read the rules again.

Apparently you still do not know the meaning of "pseudo". Millia has almost always had, since the dawn of GGXX, some kind of infinite that could shave a good 15 or so seconds off the timer. In the latest installations, she's got pseudo-infinites that are guaranteed to last from one end of the stage to the other. Once she reaches the corner, she can still get a good 10 or so hits in before being forced to restart it with mixup. Doesn't mean she didn't just shave off a good portion of your health and stall out quite a lot of time off the timer. Most Millias don't bother since the damage scaling makes it only good for stalling after a while.

Alright so basically you're talking about a regular combo, I see that stuff all the time. The combo has to be ended because of the increased untechable time, it's like that for any character, otherwise lots of others would have infinites as well, like Slayer for example. The only real infinites are the ones that leave a character grounded, no invoking the whole diminishing untechable time rule. Those don't exist unless your name is zappa in the corner with the dog ghost out. Or Baiken on potemkin, but that's beyond human execution limits.

Fine, Soul Calibur II (PAL), Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Fist of the North Star and I'm not even that knowledgable. There are probably some other games out there with true infinites.

Taki's infinite was super impractical and required a corner, it took way too much positioning / setup for you to see it often enough to ban. Fist of the North star well....you'd be hard pressed to find someone to play that game with in America. Although it does see a lot of play in japan, I think it's gonna be at SBO this year. That game's probably one of the few exceptions. But most people agree that the game is ********. It usually boils down to toki vs toki.

And since when does Sol Bad-Guy's dust loop only last for maybe 10 seconds at the most? What GGXX were you playing, anyway?

uhh...this guilty gear? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IffjyHlQtuM

 

[KosukeKGA]

This will never touch the tourney scene.

 

[Yuna]

Alright this is the last time I'm responding to the Yuna arguments. Most of this has gotten completely off topic so far but I'd like to add some closing points so bear with me, people who don't care, lol. I'd like this to get back on topic of what people actually think of the mode / suggestions.

Basically, we're watering down the tactics and strategies of many characters because of how they work.

I already stated that in the rules. No laser locks (that includes jab locks), no inescapable attack infinites like fox's shine infinite, everything else that's techable / DIable is legal. That's it. Man what a hojillion techniques that was. The game's gonna be ruined because everyone relies on these techniques so much. It just won't be the same. [/sarcasm]
So one dthrow from Falco and he cannot regrab? No, you didn't state this quite clearly. Can Falco dthrow at all?! Is he allowed to combo from Dthrow into anything but another Dthrow or grab at all?

Alright so basically you're talking about a regular combo, I see that stuff all the time. The combo has to be ended because of the increased untechable time, it's like that for any character, otherwise lots of others would have infinites as well, like Slayer for example. The only real infinites are the ones that leave a character grounded, no invoking the whole diminishing untechable time rule. Those don't exist unless your name is zappa in the corner with the dog ghost out. Or Baiken on potemkin, but that's beyond human execution limits.

Doesn't mean she didn't just shave off a good 20 or so seconds off the timer by the time you can tech out of it. And did I mention Millia has an aerial Force Break Disc?

Taki's infinite was super impractical and required a corner, it took way too much positioning / setup for you to see it often enough to ban. Fist of the North star well....you'd be hard pressed to find someone to play that game with in America. Although it does see a lot of play in japan, I think it's gonna be at SBO this year. That game's probably one of the few exceptions. But most people agree that the game is ********. It usually boils down to toki vs toki.

I said PAL SCII. Voldo had an infinite off of Mantis Crawl that had very little requirements (the exact which elude me at the moment, quite possibly that he just had to hit you from the side on the initial hit). It was a true infinite, 0-100% if performed flawlessly... and never banned.

uhh...this guilty gear? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IffjyHlQtuM

You mean this combo (the Dust Loop itself does, of course, not stand alone, it also has the set-up + follow ups), which lasted a good 15 seconds and inflicted 65% of so of damage with zero cost of tension:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6K4vjJTpcQ&feature=related

We just had a misunderstanding, I guess. You were talking about the Dust Loop itself alone, I was talking about the entire process from start to finish. 15 seconds is plenty enough time to time a round out. I never said it could be used to time an entire round out. I apologize.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

So one dthrow from Falco and he cannot regrab? No, you didn't state this quite clearly. Can Falco dthrow at all?! Is he allowed to combo from Dthrow into anything but another Dthrow or grab at all?

You sure you read the rules? lol

Basically if you down throw, you can follow it up with a grab, just not another down throw.

I don't really think removing a few infinites is really watering down the gameplay since most characters don't base their entire game off of just that, all the core strategies are still there and all, but I guess if you still disagree with that and want infinites, that's your prerogative. I just know that I would DEFINITELY not run with them, were I ever to run a side tourney with this format.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

So has anyone tried this out yet? I haven't heard many impressions on it.

 

[the_judge]

OMFG
Nobody wants to play w/o infinites, so obviously its a waist of time.

So basicly, in this mode the person who lands the 1st grab wins.
Then it isn't a game anymore, you can't expect some1 to run away all day w/ the fear of being infinited, you will eventually get caught, so you will lose.
Oh yeah, and you can't attack; that's a free shield grab, "So unplug/unsync ur controller, u just lost"

So you can't attack, and you can't run away or defend, so what's ur last option to taunt?

This thread deserves closing only because ignorant troll-like ppl are arguing over why they want infinites.

Obviously you ppl don't like it, so u try to fix it to the way YOU like it, when I believe it is fun when its fair.
But then you turn into 6 month old trolls and complain.

ALL THAT WAS ASKED WAS UR OPINION ON WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. A SIMPLE YES OR NO QUESTION. ANYTHING AFTER THAT IS AN EXCUSE FOR BEING ABSENT MINDED, OR IS BULL****!

Samurai, I assume this thread is useless, nobody likes it. If they did they would have said it straight forward. So why waist ur time.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I have PAL Soul Calibur 2 and Voldo's mantis crawl infinite was very similar to a jab lock in execution. Your opponent needed to be lying on the ground from a fall, and you needed to run over them in a specific way, and then somehow run back over them again repeatedly. It wasn't as easy as you'd think given the weirdo camera.

Oh, and good thing you're banning jabs and stuff. Stamina mode in Brawl is horribly broken. Lucario is so top tier with his chain grab.

 

[Luigi player]

I like this idea and will probably play like that a bit just for fun, when Brawl is finally released in Europe...

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Well, I found out that putting a small spike pit on both the left and right side prevent most infinites, but lucario can do a non-moving infinite on a lot of characters, so I might just have to stick with the banned infinites flat stages.

For those of you that can't live without infinites though, I'll put up the anti-infinite maps soon as well as the normal ones, along with some match videos and screens.

 

[Duker]

Seems cool, gonna try it when I get home.

 

[Narukari]

Erm, not really... It's quite hampering to larger characters like Bowser, since they're supposed to be able to sustain high amounts of damage before getting KO'd. Having everyone get KO'd at the same amount of damage makes it too hard to use them since they're such a big target, even if they are strong.

I thought of an idea for this problem, we could have preset Hp's for all the characters based on their weight.

For example (not based on real numbers):
Take Mario v Mario, figure out that 150% is needed to be killed by a mario upsmash. Multiply that number by 2 and get 300hp.

Then take Mario v Bowser, Say it takes 250% to kill bowser with mario's upsmash. Bowser's starting hp would be 500hp.

Continue on with this to calculate all the characters starting hp.


If this proves to be too overpowering for heavy characters, or too underpowering for light characters, we can adjust the values to be half the difference from the norm. If we use Bowser as an example he would have 400hp instead of 500 hp since he is 200hp above the supposed norm of 300hp.

 

[saintrage]

Ok, you all complain about infinites, when what is the problem with how they come to be in the first place? Knockback.
Increase the ratio to 1.2 and Falco's grab becomes nothing but a Dthrow. I toyed around with this idea because i found it to be really amusing and interesting. Here are some conditions for this time of gmae play i'd like to suggest.

Dmg ratio : 1.2
Special Brawl: Heavey and stamina

Grab combo infinites don't work (sans IC) and SH areials are back. Combo's still exist like metaknight's dash attack to up smash and pika's fair to dsmash. I was only able to just test this out by my self, but i found it to be really fun and a new way to look at the game. So instead of wasting thread space by saying what a bad idea this is, don't post, you're making yourself look bad. Sans the people who actuall post good reasons why this is a bad idea.

Also, this is for fun, and a new way to play brawl. Either help make Brawl better and more fun in other ways, or go be unproductive somewhere else.

GG

 

[metahunter]

it is not as fun to play brawl this way it takes out most of the fun without recovery, edge gaurding,and throwing them off the stage it realy is not as fun

 

[Ramgigon]

it is not as fun to play brawl this way it takes out most of the fun without recovery, edge gaurding,and throwing them off the stage it realy is not as fun

No, but it isn't like he's saying you have to overwrite your Brawl disc with this - it's just an interesting thing to do.

I, personally, love this on Heavy Stamina. Although I'll have to take Saintrage's advice and try it on Damage Ratio 1.2.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I'll have to give this a shot with damage ratio and see how that affects it when I get home later. Good find.

 

[smashbro29]

wouldn't this kill some balance seeing as some characters are awesome but held back a bit by crap recoveries? also you can't stop people from doing things once you start the match

 

[saintrage]

Also i forgot to add that with 1.2 dmg, spammy uptilt combo's only work 2 or 3 times and you can smash DI out of them, or regular DI. Before fox's uptilt was almost like an infinite.

When playing on 1.2, i didn't even notice a difference in knockback. Marth could still fair to fair, and the only difference seemed to be that CG's no longer worked. Atleast not falco's. Dedede's probably does.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

u.tilt can be smash DIed out of at 1.0. I tried playing 1.2 and it does get rid of the infinites, but it's just not as fun since people get knocked further away. Plus dedede still has the wall infinite so that'd be a problem. I really think 1.0 with infinites banned is gonna have to be the way to go, or the spike pits and just not worry about lucario owning the heavy weights >_<

 

[blade_master99]

Personally, if I'm in the mood to play a traditional fighting game, I just play a traditional fighting game.

thread closed....

 

[thesage]

I love how on SRK this thread is called how to turn brawl into a real fighting game >_>;

And do we really need walls? I mean the knockback is so low and since there's no hitstun you're like guaranteed to make it back.

 

[Stelfe]

Yes, it actually sounds like a fun activity. As a mini-game.

Oh, and on the argument on... something? That you guys are having...

TL;DR.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I love how on SRK this thread is called how to turn brawl into a real fighting game >_>;

And do we really need walls? I mean the knockback is so low and since there's no hitstun you're like guaranteed to make it back.

Yeah but then it's just stamina mode. Part of the feel of traditional fighters is having corner pressure and wall combos, and I wanted to reflect that in this mode.

First page major update, Screens, Level Downloads, and Replays!

 

[mzink*]

sounds like it would be a fun thing to just do on the side, a nice lil change. interesting idea

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Can anyone do video conversion? I'd love to get those replays on youtube so people could see what this mode is like.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Come on, no one can convert videos? x_X

 

[JesiahTEG]

This actually sounds really cool Good idea man, can't wait to try it out

 

[pdk]

Did you know, Smash is played with 3 stocks and not 1? In other words, you need to be infinited thrice to lose the match.

A TIMER APPEARS

-

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I'm going to keep making pointless posts to bump this to the first pa....err I mean so like uhh.....I wonder if items would be usable in this mode? Fan would be so broke, lol.

 

[Swil]

I made a video playing like this. I can upload some of yours if you want, but I need your wii code.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwYYlNF5D1w

 

[PozerWolf]

thread closed....

****in', most of smash community is so stupid.

For people saying dumb **** like that is laughable.
"If I want to play a traditional fighter, I would do just that and not do this silly thing that xS A M U R A Ix is doing", yet these are the same people who ban items and stages for competitive play.

LMAO, wow

I made a video playing like this. I can upload some of yours if you want, but I need your wii code.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwYYlNF5D1w

You should possibly put some spikes or an empty space at the corner of stage (kind of like what S A M did).

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

I made a video playing like this. I can upload some of yours if you want, but I need your wii code.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwYYlNF5D1w

Ahh good **** on that, I'm glad some people are trying the mode. I'll put your vid on the first page so people can check it out. What were your impressions of it?

Pozer: omg yes someone logical, this thread needs more of your kind <3

 

[Kraut]

aha this is a pretty fun mode too mess around with, breaks up the routine or regular smash a bit =D