Houston Thread - No HOBOs and no WHOBOs. What do we do now??????????????????????????????????????????

[Smoom77]

IMO books give me a better emotion/feel because in movies I get distracted easily with how the actors look/what's their wearing. In books, you can make the characters however you want. The directors of the movies got the character wrong, not you. You also get a much deeper look at the thoughts of characters. You can't hear the thoughts of characters in movies (unless it's in a weird point of view).

And I also agree completely with what RT. They leave out a lot of content.

Try reading a book that there wasn't a movie made out of it. I can give good suggestions of books that you'd like and don't have movies.

 

[Xyro77]

Uhh no. This is true of every medium; art, film, literature, and even games all project what the author/director wants you to see. You are just more used to ingesting visual medium.

i disagree. There are countless drawers/filmers/writers that just draw/film/write with no thought or intention. Thus, its left up to you. Not every drawer/writer/filmer does this but to blanket statement like you did is wrong.

 

[Gea]

i disagree. There are countless drawers/filmers/writers that just draw/film/write with no thought or intention. Thus, its left up to you. Not every drawer/writer/filmer does this but to blanket statement like you did is wrong.

And there are genres to correspond with this, but there are four issues with presenting this as an argument.

1) A minority of works function in this manner. An extreme minority. And to even agree with your point is ignoring that creating a work with no clear thought is an intention in itself.
2) Film is included in this
3) Even if there is no "intention" behind it, what is presented will have some connection to archetypes in some way (colors, shapes, words) and the work will still carry some sort of opinion/thought/feeling that can be drawn from by multiple people and still reach a cohesive conclusion
4) You included film in this, which is agreeing with me that all works of medium involve the author sculpting his work to create a certain perception for the audience, even if that perception is "off the wall."

 

[Xyro77]

Try reading a book that there wasn't a movie made out of it. I can give good suggestions of books that you'd like and don't have movies.

NO BOOK in the history of humanity can portray Matrix/Terminator 2/Kill Bill/The Shawshank Redemption/Green Mile/Star Wars/Se7en/Toy Story/Gladiator.......ect the way the movie can. The music/scenery/action....ect cannot be dealt justice through...........text/chapters/page numbers. ONLY a movie can do it imo.

 

[Xyro77]

And there are genres to correspond with this, but there are four issues with presenting this as an argument.

1) A minority of works function in this manner. An extreme minority. And to even agree with your point is ignoring that creating a work with no clear thought is an intention in itself.
2) Film is included in this
3) Even if there is no "intention" behind it, what is presented will have some connection to archetypes in some way (colors, shapes, words) and the work will still carry some sort of opinion/thought/feeling that can be drawn from by multiple people and still reach a cohesive conclusion
4) You included film in this, which is agreeing with me that all works of medium involve the author sculpting his work to create a certain perception for the audience, even if that perception is "off the wall."

Put it in simple terms plz. You aint making any sense.

 

[Gea]

NO BOOK in the history of humanity can portray Matrix/Terminator 2/Kill Bill/The Shawshank Redemption/Green Mile/Star Wars/Se7en/Toy Story.......ect. The music/scenery/action....ect cannot be dealt justice through...........text/chapters/page numbers. ONLY a movie can do it imo.

Your examples are really sad since you go from talking about author's projection of ideas to citing action movies with really basic elements of archetypes. Film has it's strengths and showing movement in a concise, explicit way is one of these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Hayworth_and_Shawshank_Redemption

There is more to a story than movement.

Put it in simple terms plz. You aint making any sense.

You are saying that the ACTION and MOVEMENT displayed in a movie is unmatched by literature. However, you did it by comparing an author's intention to your personal clarity upon consumption. Action and movement is rarely required for the "bigger picture" ideas. Yes, it's cool to see someone get stabbed in an incredibly gruesome manner and it may even make you flinch. However, the act of stabbing itself is the most important part, and seeing the action changes the impact. Horror movies are most successful by keeping the "horror" hidden. Imagination is a powerful thing.

PS. Right when I posted that last post:

David Kubiak: $50 says allan didn't understand half of what you just said
Sage Of Blue: Why the **** would I take that bet

 

[Smoom77]

Yes books can portray movies like that.

And Gea makes sense.

 

[Xyro77]

Your examples are really sad since you go from talking about author's projection of ideas to citing action movies with really basic elements of archetypes. Film has it's strengths and showing movement in a concise, explicit way is one of these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Hayworth_and_Shawshank_Redemption

There is more to a story than movement.

I didnt move on from anything. Im just adding to the reason why movies are far better than books imo.

 

[Xyro77]

You are saying that the ACTION and MOVEMENT displayed in a movie is unmatched by literature. However, you did it by comparing an author's intention to your personal clarity upon consumption. Action and movement is rarely required for the "bigger picture" ideas. Yes, it's cool to see someone get stabbed in an incredibly gruesome manner and it may even make you flinch. However, the act of stabbing itself is the most important part, and seeing the action changes the impact. Horror movies are most successful by keeping the "horror" hidden. Imagination is a powerful thing.

THAT is why i feel movies are better. Words are words. But SEEING it(the action of stabbing)/HEARING it(sound effect of stabbing/music during that scene) takes it to a higher level. When that stab made me FLINCH that made me sorta "feel" his pain or "relate" to that guys current situation. Books cant do that.

Does that make sense?

 

[Gea]

Yes, yes, I understand what you are attempting to say. You are saying that without seeing the prison it isn't as real to you. That a book would take pages to get all the details you could take in with one glance. That music and lighting are elements that books don't often give you.

But you are hung up on the visual moments. Are any of those elements integral to telling the story at hand? It depends on what is important in the story. You brought up one valid area that film is stronger than literature in. Intricate action scenes (I.e. fight scenes) That's great, except it's rarely important in ways connected to the story.

However you're still confusing action scenes being integral to things like tension, mood, etc. It's acceptable to say you prefer film as a medium, but you're just being ignorant in trying to explain that literature lacks things it obviously has, and has had time to perfect in ways film can't begin to touch.

Actions that aren't as clumped up with things like hand motions are often much, much more powerful in literature. **** scenes, for example. Torture.

 

[Smoom77]

Some people are so involved with books they gasp and flinch while reading.

 

[Espy Rose]

Are you guys seriously doing this...again?

 

[heytallman]

While I much rather prefer watching a movie to reading a book, I do appreciate books, and, in some cases, do realize that the books are way better than movie adaptations. Like David mentioned earlier, Jurassic Park. I never read The Lost World, but I read Jurassic Park in 8th grade. There were things which could be explained in the book through text which, if included in the movie, would be boring and unnecessary. But in the book, they are highly interesting, and really add to everything. Am I saying the movie is bad? No, the movie is great.

Another example, my favorite novel of all time, 2001: A Space Odyssey. The book was written a few years before Stanley Kubrick, my favorite director, made the movie adaptation. The book is my favorite because things could be described more accurately through text than movies could. I know the movie was made in 1971? Or was it 1969? Either way, the effects at the time were great in the "beyond the infinite" portion, but in the book, things are described so vividly and so well, you can imagine everything Dave Bowman is seeing. Also, the beginning part of the novel, with Moon-Watcher and the other apes, is described much better in the novel. Even if the film were to be remade today, I guarantee you the novel would still hold up better than any amount of 3D CGI effects you can see.

I also argue that Inception would make a better novel than it would a film, partially because of what I said about Jurassic Park. In the movie, we got a few descriptions of things like the infinite paradox stairs and other general ideas about dreams. Those were so interesting. In a novel, the author would have much more freedom to explain more of these, which, in my opinion, would make even these "filler" parts absolutely fascinating. Also, it would help to develop some characters, which the movie absolutely failed to do.

Go read Wizard of Oz, it is SO MUCH DIFFERENT from the movie, and though it's considered a masterpiece and revolutionized color and set design in films, the book is much better. Unless you sync up Dark Side of the Moon to the movie, then it becomes AMAZING.

OK, I'm done ranting now. Anyone who read this, thanks.

 

[Xyro77]

Yes, yes, I understand what you are attempting to say. You are saying that without seeing the prison it isn't as real to you. That a book would take pages to get all the details you could take in with one glance. That music and lighting are elements that books don't often give you.

YES EXACTLY!

But you are hung up on the visual moments. Are any of those elements integral to telling the story at hand? It depends on what is important in the story. You brought up one valid area that film is stronger than literature in. Intricate action scenes. That's great, except it's rarely important in ways connected to the story.

Does it HAVE to? No.

However you're still confusing action scenes being integral to things like tension, mood, etc.

No im not. It is 100% possible to show action or action scenes and have it relate to tension/mood/feeling....w/e.

It's acceptable to say you prefer film as a medium, but you're just being ignorant in trying to explain that literature lacks things it obviously has, and has had time to perfect in ways film can't begin to touch.

Im not saying it LACKS abc or xyz it just cant utilize it as well as a movie can or can truly express it as well as a movie can. There are certain things you MUST see and MUST hear in order to fully understand/relate/feel the scene/character/item.









Smoom, I literally have seen a human head/body splatter on pavement. No book will EVER make me feel the way i felt then about human life/death/terror....ect. So yea there is no way a ******** book will make me flinch or step back in horror or gasp.

 

[Reizilla]

Xyro: the real American hero.

 

[Gea]

I'd like to add that I am pretty much done with this discussion, except I would like to add in my personal opinion at the end here on one more medium.

I think games have some of the greatest potential of any medium to capture the essence or what a story can be. However, I also think it to be the most difficult in audience/author relations. The author has to keep a tight enough leash that the player adheres to the story at hand without changing it in any significant way or gets off track to shatter the suspension of disbelief, but also has to give the player enough freedom for them to feel like they are making an impact on the story.

Games also allow a blending of elements (music, lighting, visuals, longer amounts of text) without sacrifice. The issue is that games are basically in their infancy and very, very few games make an effort to be anything more than a fun, mindless experience. The few games that even scratch the surface of this potential tend to be very moving in some way or another.

I would cite games such as Metroid Prime, Flower, Deus Ex, and Shadow of the Colossus to be in some ways good examples of what games are capable of. To compare them to film/literature/art just yet though... There is some work to be done.

 

[TheJerm]

Hmmm manga is usually better than anime.

I win.

 

[Gnes]

Hmmm manga is usually better than anime.

I win.

Agreed

diddy wins

 

[Espy Rose]

But that's from Japan, Jerm.
And they've invented so many oddities that I question why that should be a valid point.

@_____@

 

[Xyro77]

Manga cannot do justice to Teen Gohan destroying Perfect Cell or Charizard vs magmar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPN-GpvWTWY

DEAL WITH IT

 

[Zigsta]

Movies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Books

 

[Gea]

Manga cannot do justice to Teen Gohan destroying Perfect Cell or Charizard vs magmar.

DEAL WITH IT

 

[Xyro77]

wtf is that

 

[Espy Rose]

Michaelangelo's eyes are blue?!

 

[Gea]

Michaelangelo's eyes are blue?!

blue

Spoiler

raspberry

 

[Smoom77]

Smoom, I literally have seen a human head/body splatter on pavement. No book will EVER make me feel the way i felt then about human life/death/terror....ect. So yea there is no way a ******** book will make me flinch or step back in horror or gasp.

I know most people don't literally flinch, i know people who do.

And you think we haven't feel emotion that strong in a book? Thoughts so intense?

Personally, I feel like arguing with you in this subject is completely pointless because you haven't given good, enjoyable books a chance. Of course you've read school books, and maybe the occasional book a parents told you read (my case many times).

I know what you like; you gotta read Ender's Game.

 

[Espy Rose]

Gea, that's the most delicious kind!

 

[ToferTheHuman]

How do his eyes come out of the head band?

 

[Reizilla]

I know what you like; you gotta read Ender's Game.

Respec, earned.

 

[heytallman]

I just realized, upon typing up my whole thing, Allan would probably hate both the book and the movie for 2001: A Space Odyssey. Sigh...

 

[TheJerm]

I havnt read all of the dragon ball manga, so I don't know about that, but the pokemon anime isn't even based off a manga.

 

[Smoom77]

Ender's Game is one of my favorite books, but Speaker for the Dead is even better than Ender's Game.

Have you read any in the series other than Ender's Game?

 

[Xyro77]

I know most people don't literally flinch, i know people who do.

And you think we haven't feel emotion that strong in a book? Thoughts so intense?

Personally, I feel like arguing with you in this subject is completely pointless because you haven't given good, enjoyable books a chance. Of course you've read school books, and maybe the occasional book a parents told you read (my case many times).

I know what you like; you gotta read Ender's Game.

Already tried reading. Not fun. I think the last book i read from beginning to end was in like 7th grade. It was one of the "Hank the CowDog" books and i read it cause it was a freakin easy book to cheat on so i could get the AR points i need in my class.

 

[Gea]

Just when you think he's hit rock bottom...

 

[Xyro77]

but the pokemon anime isn't even based off a manga.

it doesnt have to be. a text/paper form of charizard vs magmar cannot match the tv version.

 

[Xyro77]

Just when you think he's hit rock bottom...

ROFL. What do u mean?

 

[Smoom77]

You just proved my point. You JUST said that you only read so you could get AR points. I said you gotta read books that you WANT to read, not just books you want to read for AR points. Anyways, REAL books aren't good until you're old and you can think about it better.

And yeah...just when you think he's hit rock bottom.

 

[Zigsta]

Hank the Cowdog was SOOOO good. I would always rent the audio tapes.

 

[Gea]

ROFL. What do u mean?

 

[Gnes]

Already tried reading. Not fun. I think the last book i read from beginning to end was in like 7th grade. It was one of the "Hank the CowDog" books and i read it cause it was a freakin easy book to cheat on so i could get the AR points i need in my class.

lmao!

You've single handedly invalidated every argument you could have ever formulated about literature. Congrats.