Heir to the Monado. Shulk General Discussion/Social Thread

[Spazzy_D]

How would Battle Soul work, it literally halves the damage of Shulk's HP, in which the mechanic doesn't translate well in Smash. Will there be a set self-percentage like maybe 50% or will he get double the percentage he currently has?

I would say 15-20% would work well. Moves seldom have the same exact effect in Smash that hey have in their own games, so that sounds about right. If someone REALLY wanted to use the Monado at the beginning of a match, they could, but it would cost them about 100% or more in damage.

It wouldn't be anything like Pichu as the move is a trade off and not something you would ever HAVE to use. The Monado Arts would be very powerful in execution, and battle soul would be a "break glass in case of emergency" skill. If you really feel like you need to use the Monado and your talent gauge isn't quite full, you can use it once at the cost of 15-20% health and be ready to go.

As far as Shulk's Monado Arts, I would tweak your suggestions to something like this:

Up B - Monado Speed. Similiar to Lucario's Extreme Speed. Like I said, all Monado Arts should feel like they fit a niche, and recovery should be one of them.

Side B - Monado Purge. I like your description of the move, so we will stick with that.

Neutral B - Monado Buster. I like being able to chose when to go into Monado Mode, but I feel like not having a neutral B Monado move is a bit of a waste, especially since none of the arts in your list are knock out moves. This would be that knock out move.

Down B - Monado Shield. I like the 12 second buff that diminishes damage by half. I would also add super armor to it, this makes it a great approach option and seems like a very Smash 4 thing to do.

Your 4 Monado Art choices would then break down to a one time use great recovery, a useful tool against camping and defensive players, a good knock out move, and a strong defensive option.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The super armor is a good idea for Monado Shield, I think it works and fits with the move well. Considering you're risking for good defense, I should've thought about it sooner. Would Monado Speed still have the extra speed benefits? I think personally it should keep the benefits, and when you are in Monado Speed, Air Slash has a much better vertical recovery for at least 12 seconds. And to be honest, I really had no idea where to put Buster in my moveset after filling in the Monado, perhaps if you press Neutral-B twice quickly, you can activate Monado Buster.

 

[ThatLunaticFeline]

I would say 15-20% would work well. Moves seldom have the same exact effect in Smash that hey have in their own games, so that sounds about right. If someone REALLY wanted to use the Monado at the beginning of a match, they could, but it would cost them about 100% or more in damage.

It wouldn't be anything like Pichu as the move is a trade off and not something you would ever HAVE to use. The Monado Arts would be very powerful in execution, and battle soul would be a "break glass in case of emergency" skill. If you really feel like you need to use the Monado and your talent gauge isn't quite full, you can use it once at the cost of 15-20% health and be ready to go.

I'd argue that an ability like this is broken, and that Sakurai would agree with me on that. Here's my evidence:

1) Deep Breathing. A (quite minor) power boost with a long cast animation and difficult timing, during which a Bowser could charge up a side smash and deal a huge amount of damage and knockback. To balance Battle Soul, there would have to be the damage and a decently long animation (take Falco's neutral-B, that would be long enough). On top of this, I believe Deep Breathing only impacts the WFT's specials and not her standard attacks (may need someone to check on this), all of which aren't outstandingly powerful like Shulk's could be.

2) Large power and increases to it have to be punishable. Three examples - Jigglypuff, Bowser and WTF trainer again. I've already explained why the WFT's Deep Breathing is infinitely punishable, but let's take Jigglypuff's Rest. Not only does it have an ENORMOUS animation time, it also has one of the smallest hitboxes in the game. Miss it, and you could get KO'd. Bowser's large strength comes at a costly price - heavy weight, bad jumps, a huge hurtbox and almost zero vertical recovery. Shulk would be a medium-weight and medium-sizedcharacter, I believe, comparable to Link, so I would say that one ability which increases his power at a relatively small cost is imbalanced.

Bonus non-balance-related point:

3) It might be too similar of a gimmick to Lucario's, who has the effect integrated into the character already.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I'd argue that an ability like this is broken, and that Sakurai would agree with me on that. Here's my evidence:

1) Deep Breathing. A (quite minor) power boost with a long cast animation and difficult timing, during which a Bowser could charge up a side smash and deal a huge amount of damage and knockback. To balance Battle Soul, there would have to be the damage and a decently long animation (take Falco's neutral-B, that would be long enough). On top of this, I believe Deep Breathing only impacts the WFT's specials and not her standard attacks (may need someone to check on this), all of which aren't outstandingly powerful like Shulk's could be.

2) Large power and increases to it have to be punishable. Three examples - Jigglypuff, Bowser and WTF trainer again. I've already explained why the WFT's Deep Breathing is infinitely punishable, but let's take Jigglypuff's Rest. Not only does it have an ENORMOUS animation time, it also has one of the smallest hitboxes in the game. Miss it, and you could get KO'd. Bowser's large strength comes at a costly price - heavy weight, bad jumps, a huge hurtbox and almost zero vertical recovery. Shulk would be a medium-weight and medium-sizedcharacter, I believe, comparable to Link, so I would say that one ability which increases his power at a relatively small cost is imbalanced.

Bonus non-balance-related point:

3) It might be too similar of a gimmick to Lucario's, who has the effect integrated into the character already.

The Monado Arts are already part of Shulk's gimmick according to this move set, and they are a one time use per charge affair. None of the Arts themselves are overpowered, and they can A.) Miss and/or be ineffective and B.) cost you over 100% health per use IF you are using battle soul. Once again, it would be possible and preferable to unlock the Monado Arts without using Battle Soul. One use of Battle Soul wouldn't max out Shulk's gauge, if that is what you are thinking. It would likely take 4-5 uses to do so.

 

[MooseSmuggler]

The super armor is a good idea for Monado Shield, I think it works and fits with the move well. Considering you're risking for good defense, I should've thought about it sooner. Would Monado Speed still have the extra speed benefits? I think personally it should keep the benefits, and when you are in Monado Speed, Air Slash has a much better vertical recovery for at least 12 seconds. And to be honest, I really had no idea where to put Buster in my moveset after filling in the Monado, perhaps if you press Neutral-B twice quickly, you can activate Monado Buster.

I feel like Super Armor would work better with Monado Armour, personally. Shield would be better as a "stop one Special attack" kind of deal.

 

[Spazzy_D]

The super armor is a good idea for Monado Shield, I think it works and fits with the move well. Considering you're risking for good defense, I should've thought about it sooner. Would Monado Speed still have the extra speed benefits? I think personally it should keep the benefits, and when you are in Monado Speed, Air Slash has a much better vertical recovery for at least 12 seconds. And to be honest, I really had no idea where to put Buster in my moveset after filling in the Monado, perhaps if you press Neutral-B twice quickly, you can activate Monado Buster.

I just really feel like Buster needs to be one of the arts because, first of all, it is super iconic, and second of all, because it is a large powerful attack. It would probably be one of Shulk's weaker choices (in 1 v 1) because it could likely be spot dodged or avoided (I think it would likely be a shield breaker, though), but it would undoubtedly be the most popular Monado Art among casuals and children.

If we want to keep the speed buff as part of Monado Speed, then maybe it could increase the range of his jumps and air slash as well. That sounds like a good idea.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I feel like Super Armor would work better with Monado Armour, personally. Shield would be better as a "stop one Special attack" kind of deal.

The only real problem with that is all the Monado Art Special have already been filled, and I can't fit Monado Armour anywhere else. We could put that to replace the Monado Shield while keeping the same benefits, it seems more appropriate, but I feel Monado Shield is more likely to happen IMO.

I just really feel like Buster needs to be one of the arts because, first of all, it is super iconic, and second of all, because it is a large powerful attack. It would probably be one of Shulk's weaker choices (in 1 v 1) because it could likely be spot dodged or avoided (I think it would likely be a shield breaker, though), but it would undoubtedly be the most popular Monado Art among casuals and children.

If we want to keep the speed buff as part of Monado Speed, then maybe it could increase the range of his jumps and air slash as well. That sounds like a good idea.

I didn't even think about getting jump benefits as well, that's a great idea actually.

 

[Spazzy_D]

The only real problem with that is all the Monado Art Special have already been filled, and I can't fit Monado Armour anywhere else. We could put that to replace the Monado Shield while keeping the same benefits, it seems more appropriate, but I feel Monado Shield is more likely to happen IMO.


I didn't even think about getting jump benefits as well, that's a great idea actually.

Armour could be his Monado down B and shield could just be a special shield effect for him, like how Yoshi has his egg. Just a thought.

 

[Mechonis]

How would Battle Soul work, it literally halves the damage of Shulk's HP, in which the mechanic doesn't translate well in Smash. Will there be a set self-percentage like maybe 50% or will he get double the percentage he currently has?

Maybe they change it so you take double the percentage damage from enemy attacks for a set amount of time. That means if you are good at dodging/keeping enemies in check, etc, you wouldn't really have to worry about it... if the enemy gets a combo on you during that time though, ouch!

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe they change it so you take double the percentage damage from enemy attacks for a set amount of time. That means if you are good at dodging/keeping enemies in check, etc, you wouldn't really have to worry about it... if the enemy gets a combo on you during that time though, ouch!

Ahh.. double the attack damage from enemies, now this is a better than gaining a chunk of percentage just to fill in the gauge quickly IMO.

 

[MegaLagann]

If we don't get a newcomer livestream or a direct by the end of the week I think I may lose my mind. I mean I'm 99.9% positive Shulk is in, but I just want to see him already. I wanna know how he looks in HD, does he use the talent gauge at all, what's his stage, I wanna actually talk about Shulk instead of speculate. C'mon Samurai, I've been stranded in this desert for a month, give me some water!

 

[Rikobomo]

If we don't get a newcomer livestream or a direct by the end of the week I think I may lose my mind. I mean I'm 99.9% positive Shulk is in, but I just want to see him already. I wanna know how he looks in HD, does he use the talent gauge at all, what's his stage, I wanna actually talk about Shulk instead of speculate. C'mon Samurai, I've been stranded in this desert for a month, give me some water!

I feel the exact same way. I'm getting fed up.

 

[zippy3214]

I feel the exact same way. I'm getting fed up.

Well, we have 1 month of waiting left until we know for sure. We've talked about how the 19th would be the most probable day for his reveal, but Sakurai can troll hard with this last month.

 

[derrickd95]

So, have we gotten any info on Shulk from the Corocoro broadcast? Or has it not happened yet?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So, have we gotten any info on Shulk from the Corocoro broadcast? Or has it not happened yet?

I don't think there even was a broadcast from what I'm hearing.

And on the Rumors and Leaks thread someone supposedly leaked Shulk's trailer on GameFAQs which would reveal Wario, Ganondorf and Meta Knight with him, but it seems the original thread on GameFAQs was deleted. Someone did manage to screen cap it though, but I can;t find it right now.

 

[erico9001]

Hey I made a team from the list I made and it actually won!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-151548371
It's my first time trying RU since gen 6 so give me a break though

I don't think there even was a broadcast from what I'm hearing.

And on the Rumors and Leaks thread someone supposedly leaked Shulk's trailer on GameFAQs which would reveal Wario, Ganondorf and Meta Knight with him, but it seems the original thread on GameFAQs was deleted. Someone did manage to screen cap it though, but I can;t find it right now.

I was able to find it via google search.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/69832058/792879613

 

[BluePikmin11]

Are my normals and smashes good too?

 

[TheFearsomeRyan]

Hey I made a team from the list I made and it actually won!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-151548371
It's my first time trying RU since gen 6 so give me a break though

I was able to find it via google search.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/69832058/792879613

I like the tagline "Shulk Gears Up"

I would be down for trailers like that. Though I would be surprised this close to Japan release that there are three more trailers. Makes Robin's trailer not sound very bottom of the buckety

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I was able to find it via google search.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/69832058/792879613

I just reread it and

****So Shulk is confirmed as well as Wario, Meta Knight, and Ganondorf. Don't get your hopes up for K. Rool, Wolf, or Ridley.

The suggestion that Wolf wouldn't come back makes me a bit sad, he was far more unique than Falco to Fox. IIRC didn't some other leak say Wolf, Snake, Lucas and IC would be cut? If that is true I'm at least hoping they declone Falco. But I'd still rather not lose any characters (except Squirtle or Ivysaur; those two should be the ONLY 100% cuts in my opinion given Charizard going solo)

Plus, the idea that Snake being cut = a whole series' worth of representation gone doesn't sit well with me.

 

[MooseSmuggler]

I like the tagline "Shulk Gears Up"

I would be down for trailers like that. Though I would be surprised this close to Japan release that there are three more trailers. Makes Robin's trailer not sound very bottom of the buckety

A lot of people have estimated 2-3, actually. I'll believe this leak only when we get one of those trailers exactly as described, but I wouldn't be surprised if they gave us an eleventh-hour bombardment of trailers.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I like the tagline "Shulk Gears Up"

I would be down for trailers like that. Though I would be surprised this close to Japan release that there are three more trailers. Makes Robin's trailer not sound very bottom of the buckety

meh, I'll believe them when I see them.

 

[SkittleE]

I was able to find it via google search.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/69832058/792879613

Huh, "Shulk gears up" is kind of a stupid tagline. Well, I suppose there's really no reason to believe this, anyway. I suppose we have something to speculate about now (kind of), though.

 

[TheFearsomeRyan]

A lot of people have estimated 2-3, actually. I'll believe this leak only when we get one of those trailers exactly as described, but I wouldn't be surprised if they gave us an eleventh-hour bombardment of trailers.

my guess was two, figuring a month before release reveal and a day before/day of reveal. who knows though maybe Sakurai's got a treat for us.

 

[False Sense]

I was able to find it via google search.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/69832058/792879613

Taking it with a grain of salt.

Also, what's the point of having the protagonists fight their rivals and then have Shulk appear in the middle of all that? Wouldn't the more logical conclusion be to have them fighting their rivals and introduce a new rival, like Ridley, King K. Rool, or Mewtwo?

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Taking it with a grain of salt.

Also, what's the point of having the protagonists fight their rivals and then have Shulk appear in the middle of all that? Wouldn't the more logical conclusion be to have them fighting their rivals and introduce a new rival, like Ridley, King K. Rool, or Mewtwo?

Sakurai logic? With him everything is possible

 

[False Sense]

Sakurai logic? With him everything is possible

True, but the trailers we've seen so far have some sort of logical basis to the characters they reveal.

For example, the Greninja trailer started off by showing a ton of Pokemon, revealing the return of Charizard, and later on revealed the newcomer from the Pokemon series. Another example would be the most recent trailer, which was styled after Fire Emblem Awakening cutscenes and featured Fire Emblem characters and newcomers (granted, Captain Falcon appeared in the trailer for no apparent reason, but he wasn't the focus).

Having that sort of "rival" theme set up in a trailer, only to follow it by revealing Shulk, would be sort of like Little Mac being revealed in the Pokemon themed trailer instead of Greninja, or Shulk being revealed in a Fire Emblem themed trailer instead of an actual Fire Emblem character. The set up doesn't really match the newcomer the trailer is supposed to be based on.

 

[GuyWithTheFace]

Taking it with a grain of salt.

Also, what's the point of having the protagonists fight their rivals and then have Shulk appear in the middle of all that? Wouldn't the more logical conclusion be to have them fighting their rivals and introduce a new rival, like Ridley, King K. Rool, or Mewtwo?

Agreed, Shulk showing up in a "rivals" trailer wouldn't make much sense unless a Xenoblade antagonist was playable.

 

[TheFearsomeRyan]

True, but the trailers we've seen so far have some sort of logical basis to the characters they reveal.

For example, the Greninja trailer started off by showing a ton of Pokemon, revealing the return of Charizard, and later on revealed the newcomer from the Pokemon series. Another example would be the most recent trailer, which was styled after Fire Emblem Awakening cutscenes and featured Fire Emblem characters and newcomers (granted, Captain Falcon appeared in the trailer for no apparent reason, but he wasn't the focus).

Having that sort of "rival" theme set up in a trailer, only to follow it by revealing Shulk, would be sort of like Little Mac being revealed in the Pokemon themed trailer instead of Greninja, or Shulk being revealed in a Fire Emblem themed trailer instead of an actual Fire Emblem character. The set up doesn't really match the newcomer the trailer is supposed to be based on.

I always kind of saw the Lucina/Falcon part as a Falcon vs Falchion deal xD

but yes Shulk would be a bit out of place in a rivals trailer unless there was maybe some other character in there that could see into the future.

 

[SkittleE]

Agreed, Shulk showing up in a "rivals" trailer wouldn't make much sense unless a Xenoblade antagonist was playable.

Territorial Rotbart confirmed for Smash?

 

[Fandangox]

For example, the Greninja trailer started off by showing a ton of Pokemon, revealing the return of Charizard, and later on revealed the newcomer from the Pokemon series. Another example would be the most recent trailer, which was styled after Fire Emblem Awakening cutscenes and featured Fire Emblem characters and newcomers (granted, Captain Falcon appeared in the trailer for no apparent reason, but he wasn't the focus).

The day of Robin's trailer was F-Zero X's anniversary, the following day was Fire Emblem Thracia 776's anniversary. Likely the reason why Falcon was on Robin's trailer.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Territorial Rotbart confirmed for Smash?

It's obviously gonna be Despotic Arsene.

 

[False Sense]

I always kind of saw the Lucina/Falcon part as a Falcon vs Falchion deal xD

but yes Shulk would be a bit out of place in a rivals trailer unless there was maybe some other character in there that could see into the future.

Well, there is Robin... But I think that's a stretch.

 

[SkittleE]

It's obviously gonna be Despotic Arsene.

Lies, clearly the most opportune choice is Cellar Bugworm.

 

[DuwangAnon]

Lies, clearly the most opportune choice is Cellar Bugworm.

AVALANCHE ABAASYYYYYYYYYYYYY~

 

[Solfiner]

To be honest though

Spoiler: Big spoilers

Mumkhar would make an awesome character in Smash. I'd be all for it.

 

[DuwangAnon]

To be honest though

Spoiler: Big spoilers

Mumkhar would make an awesome character in Smash. I'd be all for it.

Wolverine clone tho

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I was thinking about that fan-trailer I wrote in the Fiora thread/Make your own newcomer trailer thread, and how

Spoiler: implied spoilers

it has the whole "rivals putting aside their differences and working together" theme. Of course Shulk and Fiora's relationship is different, but when it comes to the big picture, the whole thing of Shulk representing Bionis and Fiora representing Mechonis (by her augmented body + Meyneth) it's in a way still keeping that motif.

Personally I think it'd make more sense than the "leaked" trailer, if only for like I said, putting aside their differences.

Say, Gamescom will commence late tomorrow EST time, right? (By that time it'd be the 14th in Germany) so do you think we may hear something Smash-related then?

also I made a thing in the private convo, but decided to post it here anyway:

 

[DuwangAnon]

Isn't there another Hyrule Warriors thing this Thursday?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Isn't there another Hyrule Warriors thing this Thursday?

Source? I don't recall hearing about that, plus I doubt they'll do another HW direct just a week after the last one.

 

[TheFearsomeRyan]

I think there's going to be a stream of gameplay footage (or something to that affect) not an actual direct