Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

[adumbrodeus]

Yeah that's true, I'm one of those players. The only thing I'm above average at (in relation to mid-high elo players, I'm better at most things in low elo) is landing AoE nukes like Ziggs or Rumble ult.

Also I'm 4 from 4 at sniping dragon with Xerath ult.

Speaking of Xerath, rip him in the next month or two. He's bound to get nerfed now that he's seeig competitive play.

Well then create situations where those strengths allow you to swing even really unbalanced matches in your favor. Identify your strengths and run with em.

 

[Dre89]

Well then create situations where those strengths allow you to swing even really unbalanced matches in your favor. Identify your strengths and run with em.

I try do that but you can't when your team doesn't listen to you. All the things people tell Bronzies to do I already do, I just had an insanely bad run of luck. But now it seems to have gone back to normal and I'm winning more games.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I try do that but you can't when your team doesn't listen to you. All the things people tell Bronzies to do I already do, I just had an insanely bad run of luck. But now it seems to have gone back to normal and I'm winning more games.

Shouldn't require em to listen to you

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I play this game for hooking up with attractive married ladies who feel unloved and play League to pass the time.

Was looking at my Skype contact list and I realized that my closest friends from League were married women or women already in long committed relationships.

 

[Sinister Slush]

@ Sinister Slush

In Bronze, having an ADC with any runes aside from CDR, MP, or AP is a godsend.

I lied. Supporting an ADC with a complete rune page is a godsend.

Is this real life or is this just fantasy.

I got an feeling...

ayy dan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXi5eC2gsZc#t=9m40s

 

[Dre89]

I'm usually right about what champions are good or not (in that I normally predict which champions will eventually see pro play and be successfull) but the one I was completely wrong about is Gnar. I thought the transform would make him too unreliable for competitive play. I know he's considered a massive lane bully, but I just don't see it. Mini has no burst, he only has sustained damage but to do it you have to get close, then they just gapclose and chunk you. I know you're supposed to kite it out and proc your W but I only ever see Gnars even out the trade at best.

If you don't get cheezed by hop-mega transform (which you shouldn't because it's telegraphed) what threat does he pose in lane? I also don't get what is so crash hot about his teamfighting, he has an AoE stun which is super unreliable because you need to be mega and near a wall. I don't get why you'd deal with so much unreliability when you can just play malphite and do a similar thing at any time in any location.

Can you even make plays as mini with no rage? Can you gank mid or dive someone if you have no rage? He's actually one of my favourite champs in the game, I just don't see the hype. I'm hoping someone here can show me the light.

Shouldn't require em to listen to you

If you play someone like Xerath, whose win condition is to group and seige/force teamfights around objectives, you need them to listen to you. A lot of the time they just wander around alone without vision. Also if you've taken mid inhib, obviously you're supposed to group and pressure top inhib, but you can't do that if they don't listen.

Certain win conditions like hypercarry splitpushers, or assassin picks which lead to an objective require less co operation, but the playstyle I favour does need it. Playing champions that I enjoy is more important to me than winning at all costs. Now that the run of insanely bad luck has ended, I don't mind losing too much as long as I get to play the champs that I enjoy and I play well.

 

[Z'zgashi]

(which you shouldn't because it's telegraphed)

So what youre saying is that mini gnar anywhere near a full rage bar landing a boomerang is easy to avoid? Cuz all it takes is getting the slow, which then allows a quick proc of rage bar with autos followed by a mega bounce to get in that way. Good Gnar players can sit close to mega for quite a while, and all it takes is a single boomerang to connect and follow up on to mega bounce on someone, or at least force out their escape. Its the major reason Gnar is so good, all it takes is landing a single boomerang near full rage to pressure the absolute **** out of someone, and even when he's nowhere near rage, boomerang is just sooooo solid as a last hitting and zoning tool that he can easily buy himself the 20 or so seconds needed to be a threat again without needing to lose any pressure or farm in lane.

 

[Dre89]

So what youre saying is that mini gnar anywhere near a full rage bar landing a boomerang is easy to avoid? Cuz all it takes is getting the slow, which then allows a quick proc of rage bar with autos followed by a mega bounce to get in that way. Good Gnar players can sit close to mega for quite a while, and all it takes is a single boomerang to connect and follow up on to mega bounce on someone, or at least force out their escape. Its the major reason Gnar is so good, all it takes is landing a single boomerang near full rage to pressure the absolute **** out of someone, and even when he's nowhere near rage, boomerang is just sooooo solid as a last hitting and zoning tool that he can easily buy himself the 20 or so seconds needed to be a threat again without needing to lose any pressure or farm in lane.

Ohk I didn't think of that. So basically mega threat is guaranteed off a Q at high rage. I don't know where to stand when I'm on low range. On one hand I think I should sit really far back and snipe cs with Q to avoid engages, but on the other hand I feel like I should be on the side of the minion wave so I can harass with unmitigated Qs.

 

[Host Change]

I play this game for hooking up with attractive married ladies who feel unloved and play League to pass the time.

Was looking at my Skype contact list and I realized that my closest friends from League were married women or women already in long committed relationships.

Sounds like a significant part of my friend list too lol.

On another topic, me and my friend duo'd together this past weekend and both won 7/10 placement games and it placed me in Silver V and her in Bronze I. Considering we played a ton of games together last season and are about the same skill, idk how the game determines who goes where but its lame we didn't end up in the same spot. (We were both silver last season btw)

 

[Dre89]

Sounds like a significant part of my friend list too lol.

On another topic, me and my friend duo'd together this past weekend and both won 7/10 placement games and it placed me in Silver V and her in Bronze I. Considering we played a ton of games together last season and are about the same skill, idk how the game determines who goes where but its lame we didn't end up in the same spot. (We were both silver last season btw)

There would have been a discrepancy in your MMR. The games you played solo may have made the difference. Also, if two people have different MMR before they duo, the gains and losses they get will differ.

It shouldn't take them long to get back to Silver if they're a good player. If they're not they can just jungle and hope the laners dont feed. Jungling is the easiest way to climb at any elo without requiring genuine skill at the game.

 

[john!]

Jungling is the easiest way to climb at any elo without requiring genuine skill at the game.

don't tempt me *****, i've been relatively nice to you so far...

 

[Dre89]

don't tempt me *****, i've been relatively nice to you so far...

Mid is the most effective role at carrying, but you need mechanics to do it. Jungling isn't easy but even at higher elos it's not that difficult to be be competent at if you have a decentt team. It doesn't really require mechanics, just general game sense. You don't need to be a jungle main to know that if ur top is pushing with no summs and drag is down, that the enemy jg will go there. Or to set up wards around drag a minute or two in advance. Or to invade the side of the jungle where your lanes are pushing. Stuff like that isn't that hard. Whereas if you jungled from Bronze to Diamond, you would get destroyed in mid lane if you had to go there for some reason.

 

[Player-3]

Mid is the most effective role at carrying, but you need mechanics to do it. Jungling isn't easy but even at higher elos it's not that difficult to be be competent at if you have a decentt team. It doesn't really require mechanics, just general game sense. You don't need to be a jungle main to know that if ur top is pushing with no summs and drag is down, that the enemy jg will go there. Or to set up wards around drag a minute or two in advance. Or to invade the side of the jungle where your lanes are pushing. Stuff like that isn't that hard. Whereas if you jungled from Bronze to Diamond, you would get destroyed in mid lane if you had to go there for some reason.

***** pls


if a jungler has no mechanics its not because hes a jungler its because he has no mechanics, plenty of mid mains have no mechanics and get by on roams or powerfarming

 

[john!]

Mid is the most effective role at carrying, but you need mechanics to do it. Jungling isn't easy but even at higher elos it's not that difficult to be be competent at if you have a decentt team. It doesn't really require mechanics, just general game sense. You don't need to be a jungle main to know that if ur top is pushing with no summs and drag is down, that the enemy jg will go there. Or to set up wards around drag a minute or two in advance. Or to invade the side of the jungle where your lanes are pushing. Stuff like that isn't that hard. Whereas if you jungled from Bronze to Diamond, you would get destroyed in mid lane if you had to go there for some reason.

you and your "mechanics"

just because jungling requires a different skillset than laning doesn't make it easier to carry or to win. if it was, people would be fighting over it in champion select... but the most demanded role in solo queue is mid.

and if you don't think a non-jungler would bring down his team if he suddenly decides to jungle in diamond, you're hugely mistaken. i've had those junglers on my team before and they ****ing suck. enjoy getting your baron stolen by janna tornado, lol

 

[Dre89]

***** pls


if a jungler has no mechanics its not because hes a jungler its because he has no mechanics, plenty of mid mains have no mechanics and get by on roams or powerfarming

They might not have outplay mechanics, but theyd have laning mechanics. There's no way you can stay within 10 cs of a diamond mid laner if you have no laning mechanics. If you can't land or dodge skillshots, manage resources properly, know when to trade, you will get wrecked. If you did literally nothing but last hit minions you would get bullied out of lane/killed.

you and your "mechanics"

just because jungling requires a different skillset than laning doesn't make it easier to carry or to win. if it was, people would be fighting over it in champion select... but the most demanded role in solo queue is mid.

and if you don't think a non-jungler would bring down his team if he suddenly decides to jungle in diamond, you're hugely mistaken. i've had those junglers on my team before and they ****ing suck. enjoy getting your baron stolen by janna tornado, lol

People don't flock to jungle because it's not the most effective role at carrying, mid is. Mid can carry losing lanes harder than jungle can. It just requires less skill to make an impact as jungler.

And there's no way a good mid laner will suck at jungling. The only thing the might suck at is smiting, because that's a jungle-exclusive mechanic. Every other jungle skill, like knowing where to be, vision control, they would be at least competent at because it's just general game sense. You would basically be saying that diamond level mid players would be worse junglers than low elo junglers like me. who know all the basic rules of jungling.

 

[adumbrodeus]

jungling is the hardest role in the game and has the most difficult learning curve.

 

[Sinister Slush]

The great Sex King comes to mind.

 

[john!]

dre, looking at your match history, you do significantly better with your one jungle hero (wukong) then you do with any of your laning heroes. have you considered that maybe you're just better with wukong in bronze 4 games (his ganks are shaco-esque after all, and i'd imagine nobody wards at that elo) and that you don't know anything about the jungle role overall at non-garbage elos?

 

[Player-3]

^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Espy Rose]

 

[Dre89]

jungling is the hardest role in the game and has the most difficult learning curve.

I thought that when I first started playing and didn't understand how complex laning was. Everything about jungling is basically about reacting to the map, with the exception of vision control. Enemy laner is extended, you gank them, unless you think you can't 2v2. See the jungler on one side of the map, you go dive/counterjungle/get vision on the other side of the map. Complete your jungle item, gank bot so you can get drag. See one of your strong laners pushing up, you either invade that side of the jungle or lane gank/wait to counter gank. Enemy pushes a wave up, you hold it. If you know their red or blue is coming up, you gank a lane to force the jungler to hold it, so you can steal their buff. If there's nothing to react to and you have adequate vision control, you keep farming until there's something to react to.

Stuff like that is just general gaming sense. It doesn't take mechanics. Laning against good players, especially in mid lane, is far more complex, and you can't really just tell someone what to do. You can put a bad player in the jungle and just tell them what to do. That's why in season 3, when I was new, they put me in the jungle instead of a solo lane, because I would have fed my arse off. And even with a Bronze 5 level jungler at the time, we were beating teams of NA Diamonds.

Again, this is assuming you have a decent team. Of course it's every hard to carry if every lane is losing and you need to be every lane at once.

dre, looking at your match history, you do significantly better with your one jungle hero (wukong) then you do with any of your laning heroes. have you considered that maybe you're just better with wukong in bronze 4 games (his ganks are shaco-esque after all, and i'd imagine nobody wards at that elo) and that you don't know anything about the jungle role overall at non-garbage elos?

I used to play Wu mid in Bronze and get similar scores. Every laning champion that I've playd in Bronze for over 5 games has a positive KDA even if they have a losing win ratio. My Rumble averages 20 kills a game at this elo. You can check the KDAs if you want.

The only reason why I'm talking about jungling at high elo is because I've jungled in ranked 5s against teams with people who were Diamond on NA (Some were Challenger, but I don't know if they were Challenger on NA). I've been against Diamond Lee Sins in 5s who constantly invaded me and had wards everywhere in my jungle. That's more difficult than jungling against Diamonds in soloque.

I might be a bit biased because I have a mate who I 1v1 with who, with the exception of P3, is a better mid laner than the rest of you have probably ever versed. This guy honestly would've been high Challenger if he stayed on NA and committed to soloq. He dumpsters Diamonds and Challengers in every single game, and was doing it back on NA too, and then to all the OCE Diamond who were Diamond on NA too. I've played hundreds of games with him and in all those games he's literally only ever lost lane once cleanly, and it was to an Annie.

The dude is a freak, and when you vs someone of that level, who is a level above your average NA Diamond player, you realise how much more complex a solo lane is than something like the jungle.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I thought that when I first started playing and didn't understand how complex laning was. Everything about jungling is basically about reacting to the map, with the exception of vision control. Enemy laner is extended, you gank them, unless you think you can't 2v2. See the jungler on one side of the map, you go dive/counterjungle/get vision on the other side of the map. Complete your jungle item, gank bot so you can get drag. See one of your strong laners pushing up, you either invade that side of the jungle or lane gank/wait to counter gank. Enemy pushes a wave up, you hold it. If you know their red or blue is coming up, you gank a lane to force the jungler to hold it, so you can steal their buff. If there's nothing to react to and you have adequate vision control, you keep farming until there's something to react to.

Stuff like that is just general gaming sense. It doesn't take mechanics. Laning against good players, especially in mid lane, is far more complex, and you can't really just tell someone what to do. You can put a bad player in the jungle and just tell them what to do. That's why in season 3, when I was new, they put me in the jungle instead of a solo lane, because I would have fed my arse off. And even with a Bronze 5 level jungler at the time, we were beating teams of NA Diamonds.

Again, this is assuming you have a decent team. Of course it's every hard to carry if every lane is losing and you need to be every lane at once.

And high game sense requirements isn't part of skill?

You make it sounds easy but the reality is the factors defining that are more complex and being in a position to react to all the possible scenarios while maintaining your farm is in practice really difficult.

As for your ancedote, they weren't warding your jungle up and killing you at every camp? I mean people started learning to counterjungle well in season 2, that says more about the enemy team then it does about the difficulty of the role, a jungler out of his depth WILL feed his ass off.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Moving on from this mechanics topic
I of course have not played in a couple months but I been watching streams here or there while keeping up to date on LCS for NA and EU
Random Fiddle nerf

Where're all the fiddlesticks doing well.

 

[Dre89]

And high game sense requirements isn't part of skill?

You make it sounds easy but the reality is the factors defining that are more complex and being in a position to react to all the possible scenarios while maintaining your farm is in practice really difficult.

As for your ancedote, they weren't warding your jungle up and killing you at every camp? I mean people started learning to counterjungle well in season 2, that says more about the enemy team then it does about the difficulty of the role, a jungler out of his depth WILL feed his *** off.

Jungling takes skill, I just don't think it takes as much skill as laning.

They were warding up and killing me. The Lee was constantly in my jungle. Luckily for me I was Amumu, so when I finally got 6 (which happened due to my own warding and my mid laner being good) I got off some good ults and outsmited him at Baron to help us win the game. I didn't carry it but I helped. We had an amazing mid laner, so I used to gank early for him or countergank.

Jungling definitely has depth, there are different styles, and you could be good at some things and bad at others. I always had a tanky/supportive, low cs high gank style. Then I switched to bruisers like Wu, and I adapted to lack of eearly CC, but more damage by just counter ganking and lane ganking. But I always sucked at counterjungling and controlling my buffs.

It's just laning is a lot harder. Laning is basically like jungling, but you have to think and make a micro play every second.

 

[Soft Serve]

Why are laneing mechanics being valued over general awareness and desision making? Mechanics aren't hard, they should be just requirements for being competent at the game. Making the right choices, putting your self in the right position, knowing summoner timers/when the enemy team might be are all way more important.

Like you've all played vs that one midlaner with fantastic one v one mechanics who wins lane, but then decides he should just keep doing the 1v1s forever even when the enemy team is forcing 4v5 teamfights or constantly baiting him into 1v2/1v3s. Yeah he played well in lane but winning lane doesn't mean anything if you don't have the important skills to actually abuse the lead you got.

The most successful mid lanes aren't the ones that just curb stomp, it's the ones that survive lane, cs well, and make proper rotations and call for good roams, 4 manganks bot lane and secure early dragon/buff control. Ie the same things successful junglers do

 

[Dre89]

Why are laneing mechanics being valued over general awareness and desision making? Mechanics aren't hard, they should be just requirements for being competent at the game. Making the right choices, putting your self in the right position, knowing summoner timers/when the enemy team might be are all way more important.

Like you've all played vs that one midlaner with fantastic one v one mechanics who wins lane, but then decides he should just keep doing the 1v1s forever even when the enemy team is forcing 4v5 teamfights or constantly baiting him into 1v2/1v3s. Yeah he played well in lane but winning lane doesn't mean anything if you don't have the important skills to actually abuse the lead you got.

The most successful mid lanes aren't the ones that just curb stomp, it's the ones that survive lane, cs well, and make proper rotations and call for good roams, 4 manganks bot lane and secure early dragon/buff control. Ie the same things successful junglers do

You're implying that you can only have one type of skill. Mechanically good laners are often tactically intelligeent because the strategy side is easier than the mechanical aspect in soloque. The reason why Faker is considered the best player in the world is because of his mechanics. On the other hand you have Hai, who isn't that strong mechanically, but is an intelligent player and the main shotcaller for C9. Hai is respected as good mid laner, but most people don't put him on the level of Faker, Bjergsen, Apdo and all the other high mechanic mid laners known for 1v1ing their laner and making solo plays accross the map.

ADCs like Doubelift are notorious for being tactically inept yet he's still considered one of the best ADCs in the world.

You can teach someone tactical intelligence, it's honestly not that complex in soloque. But raw mechanical skill can't be taught, and has historically been much rarer and more valued.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Judging LCS pros like Doublelift for being 'tactically inept' in terms of making macro decisions is like blaming Marshawn Lynch for not running the ball during the last play of the Superbowl. Comparing a shot caller to a non-shot caller player as a comparison is an apples to orange example. Using LCS results are an incredibly poor marker for assessing individual strength. There is too much preparation, coaching, and practice that goes into preparing for situations that factor into performance and sometimes better teams lose out because they don't have the kit to adapt to the enemy team's strategy. In which case, it is not one player's fault but rather the failure of the whole organization to perform to expectation.

Faker is the best player in the world because he has godly reaction speed. It's his snap decision making that makes him seem like he's playing the game at 0 ping while other pros are lagging steps behind him. That's not mechanics. Doublelift at times has his moments especially on Vayne where he will be on low health and will allow himself to be hit by sonic wave simply because he wants to bait Lee Sin into using Resonating Strike and will be able to initiate Vayne's Condemn into a wind up animation when Lee Sin is out of range because the system will register the arrow hit animation just as Lee Sin's Resonating Strike reaches Vayne's Condemn range of effect.

I don't consider outplay potential like that to be considered as "mechanics."

 

[Dre89]

I just started levelling up a smurf on NA, htf did Aussies get to Diamond playing mid with 200 ping lol. Having a .2 second input delay would be so significant at that level. The first guy to get Challenger this season on NA was an Aussie midlaner who plays assassins. Htf do you play mechanical champs at that level with this delay, I'm still not used to it.

Judging LCS pros like Doublelift for being 'tactically inept' in terms of making macro decisions is like blaming Marshawn Lynch for not running the ball during the last play of the Superbowl. Comparing a shot caller to a non-shot caller player as a comparison is an apples to orange example. Using LCS results are an incredibly poor marker for assessing individual strength. There is too much preparation, coaching, and practice that goes into preparing for situations that factor into performance and sometimes better teams lose out because they don't have the kit to adapt to the enemy team's strategy. In which case, it is not one player's fault but rather the failure of the whole organization to perform to expectation.

Faker is the best player in the world because he has godly reaction speed. It's his snap decision making that makes him seem like he's playing the game at 0 ping while other pros are lagging steps behind him. That's not mechanics. Doublelift at times has his moments especially on Vayne where he will be on low health and will allow himself to be hit by sonic wave simply because he wants to bait Lee Sin into using Resonating Strike and will be able to initiate Vayne's Condemn into a wind up animation when Lee Sin is out of range because the system will register the arrow hit animation just as Lee Sin's Resonating Strike reaches Vayne's Condemn range of effect.

I don't consider outplay potential like that to be considered as "mechanics."

Reaction speed alone doesn't net you solo kills against fellow top players. He's also an amazing laner. He's aggressive but usually outcses his opponent, and that comes down to knowing when to trade , and rarely missing his abilities when he does it. Just having fast reactions doesn't let you aggress on people if you didn't establish lane dominance in some form.

Regardless of what you personally consider mechanics to be, when people refer to mechanics they're normally either referring to outplay mechanics or lane mechanics. Outplaying someone is considered mechanical because if you didn't dodge/mitigate a crucial portion of their dmg, whilst also maximising your damage on them then you didn't outplay them. Killing someone in a way which required high reaction time and accuracy, as opposed to just having superior stats is mechanical.

Lane mechanics refers to both the mechanical requirement of landing and avoiding damage, but also the micromanagement of minions, resources, when to trade etc.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I'm too aghast by the fact that you framed my statement in a completely unrelated context and then attempted to readdress your initial statement under a different premise and expect no one to notice just how detached you are from the rest of humanity that you can't address the actual statements of the person engaging you in a given conversation.

 

[Dre89]

I'm too aghast by the fact that you framed my statement in a completely unrelated context and then attempted to readdress your initial statement under a different premise and expect no one to notice just how detached you are from the rest of humanity that you can't address the actual statements of the person engaging you in a given conversation.

What

You said what makes Faker good is his reaction speed, and that it isn't really mechanical. I'm saying that part of what makes Faker good is his laning, which requires more skills than just reaction speed. I also said that the reason why laning and outplays are considered mechanical is because both normally require qualities like reaction speed, and accuracy with abilities/ability to avoid damage. How is that not addressing your point?

If you don't mind me asking what's the highest elo you've played at? (Or at least played mid at) Any mid laner below Plat is not mechanical and honestly doesn't count in this discussion. I have no mechanics and mained jungle for my first two seasons and I've beaten Gold laners with champions I've literally never played in a Rift game before. That's not me being good, because I'm not. It's just that pre-Plat no one actually has genuine mid-lane mechanics, so you can win lane against them without requiring mid-specifc skills yourself.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Moving on from this mechanics topic
I of course have not played in a couple months but I been watching streams here or there while keeping up to date on LCS for NA and EU
Random Fiddle nerf

Where're all the fiddlesticks doing well.

Fiddle had the 3rd highest winrate of any jungler in solo queue, and while he hasnt seen a large amount play, he won a large percentage of his games. Does this warrant the nerf though? Maybe. I personally dont think it was necessary, but it wasnt huge and I wouldnt say it was random.

EDIT: Also as someone who duo's and does 5's with a Support Fiddle main regularly, the champ IS kind of stupid lol. Just point and click to remove target from fight until theyre already practically dead.

 

[Dre89]

Fiddle had the 3rd highest winrate of any jungler in solo queue, and while he hasnt seen a large amount play, he won a large percentage of his games. Does this warrant the nerf though? Maybe. I personally dont think it was necessary, but it wasnt huge and I wouldnt say it was random.

EDIT: Also as someone who duo's and does 5's with a Support Fiddle main regularly, the champ IS kind of stupid lol. Just point and click to remove target from fight until theyre already practically dead.

Fun fact: At least pre-nerf anyway (I don't know what the nerf is) Fiddle has the highest bases of any AP in the game plus the best scaling, and I can't think of any AD that would have better bases. He also does the most damage within 5 seconds of any AP, not sure if any AD can do higher though.

Fiddlesticks is basically like Janna and Rumble combined, but harder to use than either of them. He basically counters any diver by fearing them out of their engage and probably getting them killed, or he can just ult the enemy team and do wtf damage.

 

[john!]

fiddle is literally the... wait a second, let me check... yup, he's literally the dumbest hero in the game to play against.

oh, you can stop my channel? you win. wait, you can't? nvm, i win. the definition of binary, right there.

i feel like riot desperately wants to rework him, but they can't, since they based an entire form of CC on his Q and an entire skin on his ult.

 

[Dre89]

fiddle is literally the... wait a second, let me check... yup, he's literally the dumbest hero in the game to play against.

oh, you can stop my channel? you win. wait, you can't? nvm, i win. the definition of binary, right there.

i feel like riot desperately wants to rework him, but they can't, since they based an entire form of CC on his Q and an entire skin on his ult.

I honestly find fed melee carries the dumbest. They don't even have to be fed, it just has to be 30 minutes. They're low skill champs who have minimal counterplay once they reach a certain item thresh-hold. Each one of them is stupid in their own way, they all have a way of being a threat without requiring any skill at a certain point in the game.

 

[Shaya]

Fun fact: At least pre-nerf anyway (I don't know what the nerf is) Fiddle has the highest bases of any AP in the game plus the best scaling, and I can't think of any AD that would have better bases. He also does the most damage within 5 seconds of any AP, not sure if any AD can do higher though.

Fiddlesticks is basically like Janna and Rumble combined, but harder to use than either of them. He basically counters any diver by fearing them out of their engage and probably getting them killed, or he can just ult the enemy team and do wtf damage.

Fun Fact: Voidlings exist :3

So wait, fiddles is OP again? Oh lawd.
@ john! or you can also just be amazing and remember Cleanse exists, fast blinks/tenacity do as well.
I don't particularly mind Yi against Fiddle either. Turn his Q into a free Master Yi get away.
But you're right about it usually being binary. Such things used to be cool and were practically needed to actually have dynamics that accentuated pre-rush-down-mid-only-meta game play (i.e. laning, jungling). In this "new" and [somewhat] boring boiled down to sludge only game those dynamics cannot exist lest those characters are either always OP or severely UP (by only the stretch of the imagination in which the innumerable counters are all useless/nerfed to the ground or he's crap)

 

[Sinister Slush]

Back when TSM (mostly them complaining) went to S4 worlds, they would always ban fiddle in solo queue at least while bjerg and turtle would comment constantly that fiddle is OP.
That's honestly the last time I seen fiddle around and his Q nerfs already had happened.

 

[Dre89]

So the conventional wisdom is to take armour pen reds on AD casters, but I'm pretty sure AD is still stronger early game. Does anyone have a rough idea when pen reds start to outscale AD.

I'm interested specifically in Zed, who has high ratios, % bonus AD scaling and normally gets early flat pen by via rushing brutaliser anyway.

 

[Sinister Slush]

AD quints and Armor Pen Reds was the best route for him in lane, going full either is not good except full AD just helps you last hit better.

 

[Dre89]

AD quints and Armor Pen Reds was the best route for him in lane, going full either is not good except full AD just helps you last hit better.

So do pen reds do more damage at level 3, because that's where he gets his first power spike

 

[Z'zgashi]

Prob not cuz who has armor by level 3? Only armor someone should have is their base + runes, and I think with just that flat AD would be better early, but dont quote me on that Im really bad at LoL math.