Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[pupNapoleon]

Hmm. A human Pokémon character would be certainly interesting... but I have no idea how it would work.

Read my thoughts on Pokemon Trainer, and the correct way to portray him.
C'mon man... this is just insulting at this point to feign ignorance.

 

[SamuXCI]

I want to ask some questions to everybody.

1-¿What was the first character that you ever wanted for Smash?
2-Out of all the characters you have desired, ¿Which were the ones that joined the roster?
3-In case your most wanted character made it in, ¿Are you satisfied how it turned it out?

1. Either Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, or

2.

3. Nah I don't really enjoy playing Sonic sadly. Been sticking to playing since forever.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Pokemon has been treated very well in every Smash Bros. game, I don't think it has ever gotten the shaft. The series has a DLC fighter already and has six fighters. In the Next Smash Bros., I could see them adding the next hot new Pokemon, since it seems that is the logic behind how Sakurai makes his decision. I feel like Gengar has a good chance, he would be cool



Gengar won a popularity poll for Pokken Tournament, it shows how popular he is

Also, I said that Toad could appear in the next game, not as a DLC character. What's your problem, why are you acting so defensive and insultive, calling me a hypocrite, dude?

Sorry. I didn't mean to come off like that. I just don't like it when people try to claim that Pokémon doesn't deserve another character. And yes. Gengar won a popularity poll. But so did Pikachu-Libre in South Korea. Should we add Pikachu-Libre in Smash? I just think it would be more fair if the Gen 1 bias was balanced out with a Pokémon from Gen 3. After all, OR/AS is still the most recent mainline Pokémon game, and the fact that it got almost no representation in Smash is a bit baffling to me.

 

[IndigoSSB]

These are series I feel are well represented and should not receive any further newcomers:

Yoshi
Wario Ware
Pokemon
Zelda
Pikmin
Kirby
Star Fox
F-Zero
Mother
Fire Emblem
Kid Icarus
Xenoblade
Animal Crossing
Wii Fit
Game & Watch
Gyromite
Duck Hunt
Punch-Out!!

Metroid and Donkey Kong could possibly use one more newcomer (Ridley / K Rool / Dixie Kong) in which they would cap out, if not, they are fine with their representation.

The Mario series is the only series missing it's last remaining All Star, and thus the last remaining Nintendo All Star that isn't a fighter in Smash Bros.; Toad. Toad would really top off this Nintendo All Star roster once Wolf returns.

Basically, the newcomers for Super Smash Bros. NX should come from series that do not already have a fighter in the roster. Custom Robo, Golden Sun, Mysterious Murasame Castle, Sin & Punishment, Wonderful 101 and many more. When can these fans finally see their favorite game get a fighter in Smash?

Define well represented. If we're talking about representation, then there are several series that need more representation before the Mario series (like LoZ to put out a big name).

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

So pretty much every series?
I don't agree with a lot of these.

Such as? Every minor series is well represented for their icon / popularity level and the major series are totally well represented. I can understand disagreeing on one or two, but a lot? I feel that's being selfish, but that's just what I think

 

[Kenith]

Read my thoughts on Pokemon Trainer, and the correct way to portray him.
C'mon man... this is just insulting at this point to feign ignorance.

Just because someone doesn't find your idea particularly interesting and thus forget about it doesn't mean they are actively ignoring you...

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I wouldn't say that Zelda is already well-represented. It's one of Nintendo's biggest series and it didn't get a single character this game. You could make the point that the rest of the potential characters who could rep Zelda are all just one-offs, but so are many of the other characters in Smash.

 

[Arcadenik]

I want to ask some questions to everybody.

1-¿What was the first character that you ever wanted for Smash?
2-Out of all the characters you have desired, ¿Which were the ones that joined the roster?
3-In case your most wanted character made it in, ¿Are you satisfied how it turned it out?

1. Ganondorf... I was obsessed with Zelda 64 and Zelda Gaiden in 2001.

2.

3. Duck Hunt Dog has been my #1 most wanted character for 12 years. I'm very satisfied with how Duck Hunt turned out... it's pretty much what I often suggested for so long but most detractors dismissed my ideas... dog and duck team like Banjo-Kazooie... duck pecking at enemies... clay pigeon side special... fly away up special... person with NES Zapper shooting from fourth wall... laughing at enemies during Final Smash... jumping in grass and laughing as entrance... laughing taunt... laughing when winning the match... it was awesome.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Sorry. I didn't mean to come off like that. I just don't like it when people try to claim that Pokémon doesn't deserve another character. And yes. Gengar won a popularity poll. But so did Pikachu-Libre in South Korea. Should we add Pikachu-Libre in Smash? I just think it would be more fair if the Gen 1 bias was balanced out with a Pokémon from Gen 3. After all, OR/AS is still the most recent mainline Pokémon game, and the fact that it got almost no representation in Smash is a bit baffling to me.

It's cool, I see your point and if it means anything, Sceptile would be a good newcomer. He would balance out the Fire - Water - Grass starter series. Pokemon I'm partial towards are Gengar, Sceptile, Machamp, Alakazam and Electivire

 

[SuperSceptile15]

It's cool, I see your point and if it means anything, Sceptile would be a good newcomer. He would balance out the Fire - Water - Grass starter series. Pokemon I'm partial towards are Gengar, Sceptile, Machamp, Alakazam and Electivire

That's cool. And I can understand if people don't want anymore Pokémon characters, as there are many other characters from other series that are just as deserving.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to ask some questions to everybody.

1-¿What was the first character that you ever wanted for Smash?
2-Out of all the characters you have desired, ¿Which were the ones that joined the roster?
3-In case your most wanted character made it in, ¿Are you satisfied how it turned it out?

1 - I might have questioned why Peach, Bowser, Toad, and/or Wario weren't in Smash 64 when I first played that, but the first character I ever truly wanted was probably either Sonic or Mega Man.
2 - Sonic and Mega Man are both in, and I also wanted Shulk and Little Mac.
3 - I'm satisfied with all of them.

 

[Kenith]

I wouldn't say that Zelda is already well-represented. It's one of Nintendo's biggest series and it didn't get a single character this game. You could make the point that the rest of the potential characters who could rep Zelda are all just one-offs, but so are many of the other characters in Smash.

If you're going by just a list of names, then yeah, Zelda's pretty well-represented.
But if you dig a bit deeper, Smash is missing quite a lot.

Ganondorf doesn't use anything he does in the games...there's no Ganon, no trident, no magic.
None of the memorable characters besides the ones everyone knows are playable.
There's a lot of games in the series lacking recognition, such as Link's Awakening (Tal Tal Heights remix is bad, and there's no Ballad of the Wind Fish remix at all)

As for Metroid, well, I just really think Ridley has to be a character before you can say Metroid is represented "enough" and doesn't "need" any more characters.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Define well represented. If we're talking about representation, then there are several series that need more representation before the Mario series (like LoZ to put out a big name).

It's just Toad, and then I said Mario series would be done. I already explained the logic, don't ignore it. He is the last remaining Nintendo All Star that isn't in Smash. Also, I feel that Link / Zelda / Ganon / Shiek (Impa) already represent the series well, there isn't anyone to add that would make it any more represented. I would like Skull Kid, but it's not necessary. I rather start seeing fresh series

I wouldn't say that Zelda is already well-represented. It's one of Nintendo's biggest series and it didn't get a single character this game. You could make the point that the rest of the potential characters who could rep Zelda are all just one-offs, but so are many of the other characters in Smash.

See above

If you're going by just a list of names, then yeah, Zelda's pretty well-represented.
But if you dig a bit deeper, Smash is missing quite a lot.

Ganondorf doesn't use anything he does in the games...there's no Ganon, no trident, no magic.
None of the memorable characters besides the ones everyone knows are playable.
There's a lot of games in the series lacking recognition, such as Link's Awakening (Tal Tal Heights remix is bad, and there's no Ballad of the Wind Fish remix at all)

As for Metroid, well, I just really think Ridley has to be a character before you can say Metroid is represented "enough" and doesn't "need" any more characters.

I was speaking solely in terms of newcomers and fighters. Creating a new moveset for Ganondorf and adding more stages and music is one way to keep adding representation to a series with enough fighters

 

[Aetheri]

I want to ask some questions to everybody.

1-¿What was the first character that you ever wanted for Smash?
2-Out of all the characters you have desired, ¿Which were the ones that joined the roster?
3-In case your most wanted character made it in, ¿Are you satisfied how it turned it out?

1. To be completely honest the first character I ever wanted back in the day while playing melee....it was probably Cloud or Crash Bandicoot...can't remember for certain who I wanted first though but looking at them both I thought 'they'd be AWESOME in Smash'...I have been playing Smash since before Midna and Dark Samus were even programmed...so I can't really say that I wanted them first...Banjo & Kazooie was another one probably, mainly because I wondered why they weren't in 64...thinking of all those N64 games, Super Mario 64, DKC, Zelda OoT & MM, Banjo & Kazooie...I thought something was missing...
2. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!so far he's the only character added that I actually wanted in smash, other characters that were added I either never really cared that much about for example...or characters I never knew I wanted for example...or characters I never heard of until or like because of Smash for example...
3. I was hyped as hell that Cloud made it in, so I'm very satisfied that he's here...but we'll know for sure when he's released...still waiting for Midna's inevitable inclusion.........*thinks about assist trophy*....*cries*....T_T

 

[Lady Kuki]

Pokemon has absolutely gotten the shaft. In fact, regarding veterans, it is the only franchise where people on the boards seem to disrespect the veterans, of which Pokemon has the most.

Sakurai literally makes his movesets for Pokemon out of his ***. Jigglypuff had never been seen as a balloon, and was only portrayed as one after Smash bros, and even that was Wigglytuff. Greninja was based on being a frog ninja, and has nothing to do with the character, outside of Water Shuriken, which was requested. You admit Pokemon are added just on 'being new and hot,' yet say it is fair, even though not a single other franchise is given this disrespect.

First off, Jigglypuff is supposed to be seen as a balloon. It is called the "Balloon Pokemon" after all. I guess they may not have hinted that very well in anime, but I think its move set makes sense. Heck, it even has Sing, which Jigglypuff is known for. I think they represented Jigglypuff quite well.

And by the by: Pokemon is not the only franchise where only new and relevant characters are added. Fire Emblem suffers from that problem too. Yes, we ended up getting Roy, a classic character for DLC, but he ended up getting in the game due to fan demand just like Mewtwo.The only franchises in Smash I know that get characters regardless of relevancy are Kirby, Mario and Zelda, mostly because they have a lot of reoccurring and popular characters.

 

[Arcadenik]

Pokemon talk? I want Team Rocket in Smash!!!



It would be amazing to play as a Meowth and Wobbuffet team. Meowth would be the offensive half and Wobbuffet would be the defensive half. Meowth fights by scratching and throwing coins. Wobbuffet guards by counter attacking and reflecting projectiles.

 

[Kenith]

I wonder how radically speculative community's opinion of Midna will shift if she cameos in Zelda Wii U.

I've been wondering if this will happen as the Wolf Link and Midna amiibo is confirmed to relate to Zelda Wii U in some way...which is really random if neither character is in the game.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Just because someone doesn't find your idea particularly interesting and thus forget about it doesn't mean they are actively ignoring you...

It was a post directed at another user, no need to play moderator, literally.
I'm not angry, but as one of the other few fellow Pokemon supporters, I'm aware quite specifically that he has been directed to that idea before.

First off, Jigglypuff is supposed to be seen as a balloon. It is called the "Balloon Pokemon" after all. I guess they may not have hinted that very well in anime, but I think its move set makes sense. Heck, it even has Sing, which Jigglypuff is known for. I think they represented Jigglypuff quite well.

And by the by: Pokemon is not the only franchise where only new and relevant characters are added. Fire Emblem suffers from that problem too. Yes, we ended up getting Roy, a classic character for DLC, but he ended up getting in the game due to fan demand just like Mewtwo.The only franchises in Smash I know that get characters regardless of relevancy are Kirby, Mario and Zelda, mostly because they have a lot of reoccurring and popular characters.

Pokemon is the only series without a protagonist... that should be in itself enough stated.
As far as how the Pokemon are in fact represented, why does being a balloon make sense, because it is a balloon Pokemon? It fits by technicality, and is not indicative of what the character was. As far as sing, it is useless in the game.
Regardless, the point is not that she is not represented well, it's that Sakurai completely made it up, just as he did with Greninja.

 

[IndigoSSB]

It's just Toad, and then I said Mario series would be done. I already explained the logic, don't ignore it. He is the last remaining Nintendo All Star that isn't in Smash. Also, I feel that Link / Zelda / Ganon / Shiek (Impa) already represent the series well, there isn't anyone to add that would make it any more represented. I would like Skull Kid, but it's not necessary. I rather start seeing fresh series

I didn't ignore the logic, because the logic isn't there. I could literally switch out the names to make the logic work for Zelda fans. Watch:

It's just Impa, and then I said Zelda series would be done. I already explained the logic, don't ignore it. He is the last remaining Zelda All Star that isn't in Smash. Also, I feel that Mario / Luigi / Peach / Bowser / Yoshi / Rosalina / Bowser Jr. already represent the series well, there isn't anyone to add that would make it any more represented. I would like to add Toad, but it's not necessary. I rather start seeing fresh series

Claiming Toad is an All-Star in the first place is reaching a little.

Look, if Mario gets another rep then fine, I'll be happy with it. However, you can't just brush the other series under the bed by saying "Well, they're represented enough" while adding characters from the Mario franchise. It's one way or the other, you can't have it both ways.

 

[Aetheri]

I wonder how radically speculative community's opinion of Midna will shift if she cameos in Zelda Wii U.

I've been wondering if this will happen as the Wolf Link and Midna amiibo is confirmed to relate to Zelda Wii U in some way...which is really random if neither character is in the game.

Honestly hearing this news in the direct almost got me as hyped as when Cloud was announced....it may not necessarily mean much since amiibo functionality is usually rather limited to just skins in certain games aside from Smash with the whole FC training and such...though when you look at the Shovel Knight amiibo adds quite a bit to his home series whereas Yoshi's Wooly World isn't the intended series for say Samus and Link...even Mario...

It definitely has me very curious (and verrrrry hopeful) for a possible appearance of Midna or even a Twilight inspired side story added to the game...Zelda U has been in development long enough especially after the gaddam delay...

Overall Midna's got a growing presence as of now with her being in an amiibo with Wolf Link, her expanded role in Hyrule Warriors Legends and her main game getting an HD port...as well as her appearance as an assist trophy in smash

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

I didn't ignore the logic, because the logic isn't there. I could literally switch out the names to make the logic work for Zelda fans. Watch:

It's just Impa, and then I said Zelda series would be done. I already explained the logic, don't ignore it. He is the last remaining Zelda All Star that isn't in Smash. Also, I feel that Mario / Luigi / Peach / Bowser / Yoshi / Rosalina / Bowser Jr. already represent the series well, there isn't anyone to add that would make it any more represented. I would like to add Toad, but it's not necessary. I rather start seeing fresh series

Look, if Mario gets another rep then fine, I'll be happy with it. However, you can't just brush the other series under the bed by saying "Well, they're represented enough" while adding characters from the Mario franchise. It's one way or the other, you can't have it both ways.

You totally changed the narrative. You changed Nintendo All Star to Zelda All Star. Are you putting Toad and Impa on the same level? Then you didn't understand my logic the first time and are just trying to set up a straw-man, or simply just discredit the fact that Toad truly is the last remaining Nintendo All Star. There aren't any Nintendo characters from any of the series in Smash Bros. that can be considered on Toads level, thus my logic in him being the last Nintendo All Star, do not change the narrative again to dilute my argument

 

[Lady Kuki]

Pokemon is the only series without a protagonist... that should be in itself enough stated.
As far as how the Pokemon are in fact represented, why does being a balloon make sense, because it is a balloon Pokemon? It fits by technicality, and is not indicative of what the character was. As far as sing, it is useless in the game.
Regardless, the point is not that she is not represented well, it's that Sakurai completely made it up, just as he did with Greninja.

The reason why Pokemon is the only game in Smash that does not have the "protagonist" playable, is because the protagonist is actually not that important to the Pokemon series. The Pokemon Trainer serves as an avatar for the player, and while he is kind of important to the Pokemon universe, he is ultimately not as important as the Pokemon. I mean, the game is titled Pokemon, not Pokemon and Humans. Sakurai did like the Pokemon Trainer idea at some point; if he didn't, then why did he add him in Brawl? It turns out though, he didn't find the idea as amazingly excecuted as he thought it was, so he scrapped him for Smash 4.

Don't get me wrong; I think the Pokemon Trainer is important enough to the Pokemon series to be added in Smash. Again, even though the Pokemon Trainer is not as important as the Pokemon, they are important enough to receive some sort of recognition. However, Sakurai tried to incorporate him; it didn't work out, so it's just something that we have to deal with. :/ At least there are several Pokemon Trainer trophies in Smash, like the X and Y trainers and Prof. Sycamore. It's better than nothing, I would say.

Also, what do you mean by Sakurai "making it up?" You do know that Sakurai has "made up" move sets before, right? He made up Wii Fit Trainer, Captain Falcon and Fox completely from scratch, despite the characters not having any sort of hand-to-hand combat in any of their games. Does that mean they're not represented well by your logic? I'm curious.

 

[Aetheri]

You totally changed the narrative. You changed Nintendo All Star to Zelda All Star. Are you putting Toad and Impa on the same level? Then you didn't understand my logic the first time and are just trying to set up a straw-man, or simply just discredit the fact that Toad truly is the last remaining Nintendo All Star. There aren't any Nintendo characters from any of the series in Smash Bros. that can be considered on Toads level, thus my logic in him being the last Nintendo All Star, do not change the narrative again to dilute my argument

While I agree that Toad is pretty much the most iconic Nintendo character that isn't playable in Smash...the logic behind appropriate reps is moot considering Sakurai and his team don't really care about it, otherwise DK, and Metroid wouldn't be 'underrepped', and Fire Emblem wouldn't have as many characters as Zelda...Dark Pit would've likely not be added and Wolf wouldn't have been cut...

It really shouldn't matter how many characters a series has, but moreso what the character can bring to the series...(personally I would rather not have anymore Mario or Fire Emblem characters but that's just me)

You're making it sound as if Sakurai's got a specific quota to fill rather than add cool and interesting characters...of course he still has to consider balance otherwise we'd probably have over 20 or so pokemon, but looking at Fire Emblem's 5 characters he doesn't take reps into consideration as much as we do...

 

[IndigoSSB]

You totally changed the narrative. You changed Nintendo All Star to Zelda All Star. Are you putting Toad and Impa on the same level? Then you didn't understand my logic the first time and are just trying to set up a straw-man, or simply just discredit the fact that Toad truly is the last remaining Nintendo All Star. There aren't any Nintendo characters from any of the series in Smash Bros. that can be considered on Toads level, thus my logic in him being the last Nintendo All Star, do not change the narrative again to dilute my argument

I'm not putting Toad and Impa on the same level, if anything I believe Toad is on a lower level in terms of relevancy to their respective games. Also, perhaps I didn't understand you're logic, please explain it more clearly because I'm failing to understand how Toad being the last remaining "All-Star" (ignoring Daisy and Waluigi, but for arguments sake we'll ignore that). If anything this feels like a reason against having another Mario rep as opposed to other series that still have a plethora of characters left as potential DLC.

Also, claiming a strawman setup means you're also ignoring the point I was trying to make. The last significant character the Mario franchise has to add is Toad. How does this fact put him above other franchises that have several characters not in Smash that are also significant. The answer is: it doesn't, but you conveniently sweeped that fact under the rug by saying they're already well represented.

I'd like to again state that I have nothing against another Mario representative, since it seems you're interpreting some kind of venom in my words that I didn't intend. No need to take this personally, but you have to admit this logic doesn't make sense when you look at it relative to every other series.

Edit: this is my last post on this, I'm going to sleep
Double Edit: thanks for pretty much ignoring my post, it's probably a sign that I'm done for the night

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

While I agree that Toad is pretty much the most iconic Nintendo character that isn't playable in Smash...the logic behind appropriate reps is moot considering Sakurai and his team don't really care about it, otherwise DK, and Metroid wouldn't be 'underrepped', and Fire Emblem wouldn't have as many characters as Zelda...Dark Pit would've likely not be added and Wolf wouldn't have been cut...

It really shouldn't matter how many characters a series has, but moreso what the character can bring to the series...(personally I would rather not have anymore Mario or Fire Emblem characters but that's just me)

You're making it sound as if Sakurai's got a specific quota to fill rather than add cool and interesting characters...of course he still has to consider balance otherwise we'd probably have over 20 or so pokemon, but looking at Fire Emblem's 5 characters he doesn't take reps into consideration as much as we do...

Yeah, pretty much. I mentioned Toad because he is the last iconic Nintendo All Star. I didn't mean to imply Sakurai has quotas, I'm saying that every series in the game is well represented character wise, including the series I said could use one more. If they add more Mario, Zelda or Pokemon characters that's fine due to their top popularity, but any other series, not so much, would rather them focus on bringing new series than add to niche series that already have a fighter

I'm not putting Toad and Impa on the same level, if anything I believe Toad is on a lower level in terms of relevancy to their respective games. Also, perhaps I didn't understand you're logic, please explain it more clearly because I'm failing to understand how Toad being the last remaining "All-Star" (ignoring Daisy and Waluigi, but for arguments sake we'll ignore that). If anything this feels like a reason against having another Mario rep as opposed to other series that still have a plethora of characters left as potential DLC.

Also, claiming a strawman setup means you're also ignoring the point I was trying to make. The last significant character the Mario franchise has to add is Toad. How does this fact put him above other franchises that have several characters not in Smash that are also significant. The answer is: it doesn't, but you conveniently sweeped that fact under the rug by saying they're already well represented.

I'd like to again state that I have nothing against another Mario representative, since it seems you're interpreting some kind of venom in my words that I didn't intend. No need to take this personally, but you have to admit this logic doesn't make sense when you look at it relative to every other series.

I'm not going to explain to you why Toad is above and beyond other Nintendo characters not in Smash. Go to Wal-Mart or Target to see Toad plastered on a wall or poster to understand why. Toad is in no way "low-relevancy" in the Mario series, and putting Waluigi or Daisy above him is a travesty

 

[Lady Kuki]

While I agree that Toad is pretty much the most iconic Nintendo character that isn't playable in Smash...the logic behind appropriate reps is moot considering Sakurai and his team don't really care about it, otherwise DK, and Metroid wouldn't be 'underrepped', and Fire Emblem wouldn't have as many characters as Zelda...Dark Pit would've likely not be added and Wolf wouldn't have been cut...

It really shouldn't matter how many characters a series has, but moreso what the character can bring to the series...(personally I would rather not have anymore Mario or Fire Emblem characters but that's just me)

You're making it sound as if Sakurai's got a specific quota to fill rather than add cool and interesting characters...of course he still has to consider balance otherwise we'd probably have over 20 or so pokemon, but looking at Fire Emblem's 5 characters he doesn't take reps into consideration as much as we do...

To be fair, Sakurai added Lucina because he originally wanted to make her a Marth skin, but he had enough time to make her into a full character. Roy was added due to fan demand. Sakurai at some point did say that he didn't like cutting out characters, so he added veterans like Roy and Mewtwo despite their respective franchises already having "too many characters". Basically, Lucina and Roy weren't added in for their merits, I don't think. I believe they were added as a treat for the fans. As much as I don't want to admit it, I actually do think Sakurai cares about reps to some degree. If I can recall, there was a SourceGaming article about planned characters, and it said that Sakurai was originally going to add Wario in Melee. However, Wario was scrapped, because Sakurai thought that the Mario franchise would have been "overrepped" if he were to have added him in. Then again, Melee was a long time ago. It's possible that Sakurai could have changed his mind about reps since then.

Also, I think the reason why Metroid doesn't have many reps is because Metroid as a series is about exploration and isolation from what I can see. There are hardly any reoccurring Metroid characters. The only other reoccurring Metroid character is Ridley, and we all know how that turned out.

As for Wolf, I honestly have no clue why he was cut, but it's possible that he's coming back for DLC.

 

[Morbi]

In regard to the earlier conversation, or perhaps the current one as well, I have yet to actually read it in its entirety; why does any given series need to be well represented? Is that truly an overt goal of Sakurai's? I believe that it is a weird and overblown assumption on our part that series should be "represented" well. Furthermore, the whole "well" portion of that notion is completely subjective in the first place. Therefore, it would more or less lie on whether or not Sakurai intended to represent series adequately. My issue is that I do not recall him ever stating that that was a priority of his. That is just my opinion on the matter.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

To be fair, Sakurai added Lucina because he originally wanted to make her a Marth skin, but he had enough time to make her into a full character. Roy was added due to fan demand. Sakurai at some point did say that he didn't like cutting out characters, so he added veterans like Roy and Mewtwo despite their respective franchises already having "too many characters". Basically, Lucina and Roy weren't added in for their merits, I don't think. I believe they were added as a treat for the fans. As much as I don't want to admit it, I actually do think Sakurai cares about reps to some degree. If I can recall, there was a SourceGaming article about planned characters, and it said that Sakurai was originally going to add Wario in Melee. However, Wario was scrapped, because Sakurai thought that the Mario franchise would have been "overrepped" if he were to have added him in. Then again, Melee was a long time ago. It's possible that Sakurai could have changed his mind about reps since then.

Also, I think the reason why Metroid doesn't have many reps is because Metroid as a series is about exploration and isolation from what I can see. There are hardly any reoccurring Metroid characters. The only other reoccurring Metroid character is Ridley, and we all know how that turned out.

As for Wolf, I honestly have no clue why he was cut, but it's possible that he's coming back for DLC.

A lot of people don't like this idea but I think Fox and Wolf should be the solid Star Fox fighters, with Falco and alternate costume series to Fox with 8 of his own colors. I also feel that the 3 clones should go back to alternate costumes in order to keep their appearance in Smash. Roy should also be a costume for Marth, unless he becomes some sort of DLC tradition

In regard to the earlier conversation, or perhaps the current one as well, I have yet to actually read it in its entirety; why does any given series need to be well represented? Is that truly an overt goal of Sakurai's? I believe that it is a weird and overblown assumption on our part that series should be "represented" well. Furthermore, the whole "well" portion of that notion is completely subjective in the first place. Therefore, it would more or less lie on whether or not Sakurai intended to represent series adequately. My issue is that I do not recall him ever stating that that was a priority of his. That is just my opinion on the matter.

Series representation is something Sakurai takes into account to some degree, SourceGaming translated articles with Sakurai saying just that

 

[CodeBlue_]

Oh boy series representation arguments.

Why is this relevant to DLC? Sakurai doesnt care for represenration and rules against series seem incredibly arbitrary and contradict the purpose of the Smash Ballot. You vote for a character, not for a series.

Let's focus on individual character merits please and keep Sma5h discussion away from this thread. This is DLC discussion for Smash 4. This is starting to remind me of pre-release character detractions and salt.

Also, Toad is a Nintendo All-Star? Am I missing something?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I would just say that not everything about every game, even the major stuff, has to be in Smash as a playable character. There are other ways to include something in the game.

 

[Aetheri]

Yeah, pretty much. I mentioned Toad because he is the last iconic Nintendo All Star. I didn't mean to imply Sakurai has quotas, I'm saying that every series in the game is well represented character wise, including the series I said could use one more. If they add more Mario, Zelda or Pokemon characters that's fine due to their top popularity, but any other series, not so much, would rather them focus on bringing new series than add to niche series that already have a fighter

Well some of the series that you listed (outside of Zelda/Pokemon/Kirby since they are huge franchises with obviously lots of potential for great characters) can bring in some really neat fighters that can still 'fit' within a certain mold of Smash...sure they may not necessarily be 'All-Stars' but then again neither are some other characters like for example...

Like say...for Star Fox (after Wolf gets in who is actaully a fairly iconic character just for his 'can't let you do that StarFox' quote) but there's also Krystal who would make for a very interesting staff weilder (that differs a fair bit from Palutena)
or say....King Hippo from Punch Out who could be a neat heavyweight fighter, he's actually a very notable character from the Punch Out! series...
just to list a few examples...

To be fair, Sakurai added Lucina because he originally wanted to make her a Marth skin, but he had enough time to make her into a full character. Roy was added due to fan demand. Sakurai at some point did say that he didn't like cutting out characters, so he added veterans like Roy and Mewtwo despite their respective franchises already having "too many characters". Basically, Lucina and Roy weren't added in for their merits, I don't think. I believe they were added as a treat for the fans. As much as I don't want to admit it, I actually do think Sakurai cares about reps to some degree. If I can recall, there was a SourceGaming article about planned characters, and it said that Sakurai was originally going to add Wario in Melee. However, Wario was scrapped, because Sakurai thought that the Mario franchise would have been "overrepped" if he were to have added him in. Then again, Melee was a long time ago. It's possible that Sakurai could have changed his mind about reps since then.

Also, I think the reason why Metroid doesn't have many reps is because Metroid as a series is about exploration and isolation from what I can see. There are hardly any reoccurring Metroid characters. The only other reoccurring Metroid character is Ridley, and we all know how that turned out.

As for Wolf, I honestly have no clue why he was cut, but it's possible that he's coming back for DLC.

As I said he's obviously taking it into consideration, He is well aware that fans don't want 15 mario characters and 30 pokemon, and he likely doesn't want that many either, but at the same time he's making other things a priority over representation such as, what you have mentioned, fan-demand; which is, to him, much more important than Fire Emblem having one or two extra characters...

Ridley is a bit of a special case...he's vastly popular and arguably the most heavily demanded character for smash of all time (K Rool is very close as well though I'm not sure what his excuse is), but Sakurai views him more appropriately as a boss character, if he cared more about representation he may have even tried harder to make him work...

Wolf was likely cut because of time constraints...it really is the only feasible explanation as he was a last minute addition in Brawl and barely made it in then...

Also do you have a source for the Wario situation in melee? I haven't heard this, I thought it was because he tried to make him as a Mario clone and it didn't work out hence why he switched to Dr. Mario instead...of course I could be mistaken...

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Oh boy series representation arguments.

Why is this relevant to DLC? Sakurai doesnt care for represenration and rules against series seem incredibly arbitrary and contradict the purpose of the Smash Ballot. You vote for a character, not for a series.

Let's focus on individual character merits please and keep Sma5h discussion away from this thread. This is DLC discussion for Smash 4. This is starting to remind me of pre-release character detractions and salt.

Also, Toad is a Nintendo All-Star? Am I missing something?

Talking solely about Smash 5 newcomers, not DLC. Toad is a Nintendo All Star. Or do you just follow me around to disagree with me

I would like someone to make a case as to why Toad isn't a Nintendo All Star, rather than just "no lol" or "he is a minor Mario character" (absolutely wrong)

Well some of the series that you listed (outside of Zelda/Pokemon/Kirby since they are huge franchises with obviously lots of potential for great characters) can bring in some really neat fighters that can still 'fit' within a certain mold of Smash...sure they may not necessarily be 'All-Stars' but then again neither are some other characters like for example...

Like say...for Star Fox (after Wolf gets in who is actaully a fairly iconic character just for his 'can't let you do that StarFox' quote) but there's also Krystal who would make for a very interesting staff weilder (that differs a fair bit from Palutena)
or say....King Hippo from Punch Out who could be a neat heavyweight fighter, he's actually a very notable character from the Punch Out! series...
just to list a few examples...

I understand, but my point is that I rather other series that do not have a fighter get a newcomer with equal potential or better than someone from a series with fighters in it

 

[IndigoSSB]

I'm not going to explain to you why Toad is above and beyond other Nintendo characters not in Smash. Go to Wal-Mart or Target to see Toad plastered on a wall or poster to understand why. Toad is in no way "low-relevancy" in the Mario series, and putting Waluigi or Daisy above him is a travesty

"relevancy to their respective games."

As for Waluigi and Daisy, I literally said to ignore that for argument's sake (a futile effort). Which means you ignored everything else. Argue all you want for what you believe, but please, pick a topic and stay on it.

I've said my part, and I've accepted that you won't acknowledge what I'm saying. I'm done for the night, g'night everybody.

 

[Halifax?]

~~~~~~~~~~

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

"relevancy to their respective games."

As for Waluigi and Daisy, I literally said to ignore that for argument's sake (a futile effort). Which means you ignored everything else. Argue all you want for what you believe, but please, pick a topic and stay on it.

I've said my part, and I've accepted that you won't acknowledge what I'm saying. I'm done for the night, g'night everybody.

No? Even in the Mario series Toad is extremely relevant and a top icon? Why are you even saying that

 

[Lady Kuki]

As I said he's obviously taking it into consideration, He is well aware that fans don't want 15 mario characters and 30 pokemon, and he likely doesn't want that many either, but at the same time he's making other things a priority over representation such as, what you have mentioned, fan-demand; which is, to him, much more important than Fire Emblem having one or two extra characters...

Ridley is a bit of a special case...he's vastly popular and arguably the most heavily demanded character for smash of all time (K Rool is very close as well though I'm not sure what his excuse is), but Sakurai views him more appropriately as a boss character, if he cared more about representation he may have even tried harder to make him work...

Wolf was likely cut because of time constraints...it really is the only feasible explanation as he was a last minute addition in Brawl and barely made it in then...

Also do you have a source for the Wario situation in melee? I haven't heard this, I thought it was because he tried to make him as a Mario clone and it didn't work out hence why he switched to Dr. Mario instead...of course I could be mistaken...

Fair enough. Honestly this was mostly just aDevil's Advocate post. I hope that Sakurai doesn't actually care about series representation.

And man... I'm looking for that Source Gaming article and I can't find it! It was the same article that said that Banjo Kazooie and James Bond were at some point considered to be added to Melee. Not that they were; it was just a "what if" scenario I think.

 

[A Distant Demon]

RIP project M. . .

Ridley is arguably the most heavily demanded character for smash of all time

Mewtwo and Sonic though






LoZ and Pokemon and Mario discussion?

Midna and Gardevoir for Smash!
and let's throw Toad with a Captain Toad alt in the mix!
No? Anyone? ok


*Oni's signature hatred for "reps" rant goes here*

 

[ShadyClash]

I sense Wolf in the next Direct.

I mean

I don't really care much for him, but it would make sense if he was released with Cloud. Just sayin.

 

[CodeBlue_]

Talking solely about Smash 5 newcomers, not DLC. Toad is a Nintendo All Star. Or do you just follow me around to disagree with me

I would like someone to make a case as to why Toad isn't a Nintendo All Star, rather than just "no lol" or "he is a minor Mario character" (absolutely wrong)

Bruh I didn't say any of that, don't be so defensive lol. I'm just wondering why you think he's an all-star. I'm completely neutral to Toad, but I don't have a lot of understanding of his importance as a character. Can you please share some insight?

(Btw I respond to you so often because you have opinions I disagree with and you're also being very vocal about it. It's not bad, it just catches my attention more often. No hard feelings )

 

[A Distant Demon]

Bruh I didn't say any of that, don't be so defensive lol. I'm just wondering why you think he's an all-star. I'm completely neutral to Toad, but I don't have a lot of understanding of his importance as a character. Can you please share some insight?

(Btw I respond to you so often because you have opinions I disagree with and you're also being very vocal about it. It's not bad, it just catches my attention more often. No hard feelings )

I think showing up all the way back in SMB (even becoming a well known joke "the Princess is in another castle" from that appearance) having multiple playable appearances, from SMB2 USA, the New SMB games, 3D world and a humongous amount of spinoffs, generally being prevalant in mario titles from 64 to sunshine and then having your own spinoff game show up as a full title (Captain Toad) pretty all while being under the umbrella of one of the biggest ideo game franchises of all time much guarantees Toad's spot as an all star

but that is just me.