Ganondorf

[ORVO5]

Hey, a little realism is never unwelcome, someone has to pull us back to the ground.
What Sakurai did to Ganondorf in brawl was a complete and total cop out. However brawl Ganondorf definitely seems more iconic now and I expect something based off of that for his move set, but I highly doubt they'll just buff him. He's a good enough character to carry his own weight and if Sakurai keeps him cloned like he is than he is wasting the character.

Didn't Sakurai said there won't be any clones? Maybe Lucina and Toon Link are exceptions because they sort of have a right to be clones, and they stay within their own franchises. I'd like to think Ganondorf being a lot like Capt. Falcon again would step over that "no clones" boundary that Sakurai has placed.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Didn't Sakurai said there won't be any clones? Maybe Lucina and Toon Link are exceptions because they sort of have a right to be clones, and they stay within their own franchises. I'd like to think Ganondorf being a lot like Capt. Falcon again would step over that "no clones" boundary that Sakurai has placed.

Did he say that? Maybe he doesn't Lucina and Toon Link as clones for some reason.
Well, that's all the more reason to believe that Ganondorf will get his own moveset in this round.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I need a source for when Sakurai said there won't be any clones in Smash 4. As we can all see Lucina disproves that.

 

[Xigger]

@ E EdgeTheLucas , @ Katty Shepherd , @ ORVO5 , no he did not. The fans always seem to think Sakurai is done with clones; we said the same thing during Brawl and thought there would be no more clones back then.

Clones are here to stay, as made evident with Toon Link, Lucina, even Luigi and Ike.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

@ E EdgeTheLucas , @ Katty Shepherd , @ ORVO5 , no he did not. The fans always seem to think Sakurai is done with clones; we said the same thing during Brawl and thought there would be no more clones back then.

Clones are here to stay, as made evident with Toon Link, Lucina, even Luigi and Ike.

There we go. Let's just hope Ganondorf doesn't remain a clone of Captain Falcon because that makes literally no sense at all.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

@ E EdgeTheLucas , @ Katty Shepherd , @ ORVO5 , no he did not. The fans always seem to think Sakurai is done with clones; we said the same thing during Brawl and thought there would be no more clones back then.

Clones are here to stay, as made evident with Toon Link, Lucina, even Luigi and Ike.

Ike's not a clone but the rest of your post is fine. Luigi is a semi-clone (two specials shared, a lot of normals too).

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Ike's not a clone but the rest of your post is fine. Luigi is a semi-clone (two specials shared, a lot of normals too).

Yeah, Ike has a few similarities to Marth but otherwise they're completely different characters.

 

[Xigger]

Yeah, it's a gray area, Like Lucas and Wolf. Smash has come to treat semi-clones as stand-alone characters nowadays. How to put it...

Ike > Luigi > Wolf > Lucas > Falco > Ganondorf > Toon Link? > Lucina?...

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Yeah, it's a gray area, Like Lucas and Wolf. Smash has come to treat semi-clones as stand-alone characters nowadays. How to put it...

Ike > Luigi > Wolf > Lucas > Falco > Ganondorf > Toon Link? > Lucina?...

Yeah, that seems about right.

 

[Hexaped]

I have already bet that Ganondorf would receive a large moveset change, so I must remain optimistic! Anyway, I have been thinking about Ganondorf's beginning. This character was so popular after OoT, Mr. Sakurai forced his inclusion in SSBM. Was this popularity solely due to his boss battle in the castle? When I think about it, Ganondorf was essentially a heinous, murderous, thug. Ganondorf was meant to be charismatic and slightly benevolent, but that did not noticeably occur in OoT's final design. Why did this guy become so popular? The later games he was featured in only solidified his strong popularity further. I am probably forgetting something. Was his popularity mostly from Japan or America? The character polls had something to do with Ganondorf's hasty inclusion, as Mr. Sakurai stated.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

I have already bet that Ganondorf would receive a large moveset change, so I must remain optimistic! Anyway, I have been thinking about Ganondorf's beginning. This character was so popular after OoT, Mr. Sakurai forced his inclusion in SSBM. Was this popularity solely due to his boss battle in the castle? When I think about it, Ganondorf was essentially a heinous, murderous, thug. Ganondorf was meant to be charismatic and slightly benevolent, but that did not noticeably occur in OoT's final design. Why did this guy become so popular? The later games he was featured in only solidified his strong popularity further. I am probably forgetting something. Was his popularity mostly from Japan or America? The character polls had something to do with Ganondorf's hasty inclusion, as Mr. Sakurai stated.

Ganondorf was apart of the most popular Legend of Zelda game, Ocarina of Time is regarded as one of the best in video gaming. Obviously the central villain will get attention and likes. He's a surprisingly eloquent heinous, murderous thug who managed to trick the main characters into giving him exactly what he wanted half way through the game. Adult Zelda got in Melee despite being in like... 1/8 of the game, of course she had Sheik.
Another thing to keep in mind is that LoZ nowhere near as popular in Japan as it is in America.

The blue is America and the red is Japan. Take special note of Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. TP's success could be why we're getting TP Zelda and Link again, and probably TP Ganondorf. I would imagine Sakurai is looking to America for LoZ, not doing so would be silly because the fan base he wants to draw in sure isn't in Japan.

 

[Hexaped]

Woah. Thanks for this info. It was once a huge difference! I have read somewhere involving Mewtwo's popularity that Americans prefer strong characters. Mewtwo was also relatively merciless in their movie debut, but their popularity earned them a spot on the roster. I hope more interviews about Ganondorf's design and character eventually appear. Anyway, if you created abilities for a pre-Triforce Ganondorf, what would they be?

 

[crotch protector]

I'd be outraged cause they should've replaced Sheik with Impa.

Spot on. Impa has such a great SS design too. :[

 

[JFM2796]

That's the most stupid thing they could possibly do.

That is single handedly the only thing that would prevent me from buying the game.

Pig Ganon would be acceptable. Either of those clowns? No.

 

[JaidynReiman]

There we go. Let's just hope Ganondorf doesn't remain a clone of Captain Falcon because that makes literally no sense at all.

I have already bet that Ganondorf would receive a large moveset change, so I must remain optimistic! Anyway, I have been thinking about Ganondorf's beginning. This character was so popular after OoT, Mr. Sakurai forced his inclusion in SSBM. Was this popularity solely due to his boss battle in the castle? When I think about it, Ganondorf was essentially a heinous, murderous, thug. Ganondorf was meant to be charismatic and slightly benevolent, but that did not noticeably occur in OoT's final design. Why did this guy become so popular? The later games he was featured in only solidified his strong popularity further. I am probably forgetting something. Was his popularity mostly from Japan or America? The character polls had something to do with Ganondorf's hasty inclusion, as Mr. Sakurai stated.

Ganondorf has been highly requested to get a new moveset for a long time, and Sakurai's recent interviews about the whole Robin vs. Chrom debate... only make me believe in him even more, he knows EXACTLY what he's doing. I'm positive Ganondorf is getting a new moveset this time. Captain Falcon was revealed early, too. Black Shadow is the perfect character to get Ganondorf's old moveset and F-Zero is long overdue for a second rep.

I really, REALLY think its happening this time, guys. I'm confident.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Ganondorf has been highly requested to get a new moveset for a long time, and Sakurai's recent interviews about the whole Robin vs. Chrom debate... only make me believe in him even more, he knows EXACTLY what he's doing. I'm positive Ganondorf is getting a new moveset this time. Captain Falcon was revealed early, too. Black Shadow is the perfect character to get Ganondorf's old moveset and F-Zero is long overdue for a second rep.

I really, REALLY think its happening this time, guys. I'm confident.

I think you're right, if Sakurai seems like he knows what he's doing than there's 99% chance than he knows what he's doing. And when Sakurai knows what he's doing, than only beautiful magical things can happen... and usually do.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think you're right, if Sakurai seems like he knows what he's doing than there's 99% chance than he knows what he's doing. And when Sakurai knows what he's doing, than only beautiful magical things can happen... and usually do.

See, the thing is, I feel that people who aren't huge Fire Emblem fans wouldn't understand what I'm trying to say. But the point I'm trying to make is, Sakurai knew exactly the best thing to do for Fire Emblem. Robin is filled to the brim with Fire Emblem fanservice, especially by focusing on such central characteristics as both tactical gameplay and even durability. Robin's reveal made me very confident in the future and I'd be astonished at this point if Ganondorf isn't fixed.

 

[Electric Tuba]

Someone mentioned Ganon leaping into the air and coming down with a sword slash, and made think:
What if Ganon comes out like Oni from SF4? He could change to a very aggressive character and have smashes that involve a lot of movement instead of raw power.

He could still put the whoop ass on, but maybe sacrificing some ridiculous power for ridiculous pressure could make him play in a more unique way.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Someone mentioned Ganon leaping into the air and coming down with a sword slash, and made think:
What if Ganon comes out like Oni from SF4? He could change to a very aggressive character and have smashes that involve a lot of movement instead of raw power.

He could still put the whoop *** on, but maybe sacrificing some ridiculous power for ridiculous pressure could make him play in a more unique way.

I think one of the things that should be feared about Ganondorf is that once he gets you your dead, you don't want him to catch him, ever. This should go into being able to keep pressure on while carrying one helluva hit. Of course he would be slow and heavy, a big target.

 

[Anarchy]

I'm pretty sure Ganondorf is in. I may be wrong, but he's an important character, to me of course. I just think they should just make a new moveset and drop the old Captain Falcon clone moveset.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I'm pretty sure Ganondorf is in. I may be wrong, but he's an important character, to me of course. I just think they should just make a new moveset and drop the old Captain Falcon clone moveset.

No one is doubting that Ganondorf will be in, it's a question of if he will indeed be his own character.

Ganondorf has been highly requested to get a new moveset for a long time, and Sakurai's recent interviews about the whole Robin vs. Chrom debate... only make me believe in him even more, he knows EXACTLY what he's doing. I'm positive Ganondorf is getting a new moveset this time. Captain Falcon was revealed early, too. Black Shadow is the perfect character to get Ganondorf's old moveset and F-Zero is long overdue for a second rep.

I really, REALLY think its happening this time, guys. I'm confident.

Eh, I'm not too confident in Black Shadow or a second F-Zero character, much as I would love one. I think Ganondorf will get a new moveset, but his old one will go the way of the dodo.

 

[JaidynReiman]

No one is doubting that Ganondorf will be in, it's a question of if he will indeed be his own character.




Eh, I'm not too confident in Black Shadow or a second F-Zero character, much as I would love one. I think Ganondorf will get a new moveset, but his old one will go the way of the dodo.

I'm confident in Ganondorf getting a new moveset at this point. Black Shadow is a 70% thing for me, however, I think he's quite likely. Especially with Captain Falcon revealed before release. F-Zero is the only O12 franchise without a second rep, so I think its quite likely.

 

[Hexaped]

Folks, this discussion fuels my creativity! Reading what you think Ganondorf should play like is particularly inspiring. Ganondorf should seem deadly, Katty Shepherd! And, to Electric Tuba: if Ganondorf lunged forward for his forward smash it would both fit one of his final boss attacks, and represent his merciless nature. Though I am seriously avoiding anything post-OoT, I may use that, so thank you. I want to share some of my ideas for a non-SSB Ganondorf moveset, but I should not post too much at once.

 

[Xigger]

You know, even if Ganondorf is an important character deserving an inspired moveset, I don't hate his moveset. His even-paced speed and magnificent power gives me the feeling of an all-mighty evil warlord. I wouldn't want to see it completely vanish for the sake of originality.

As long as his moveset still gives off that feeling, and perhaps more, I'll be one happy fan.

 

[Hexaped]

I agree, and I am sure many others do too, Xigger. If you seek a distinct "warlord" character, how would you like if Ganondorf could summon one or two of his giant monsters, like Gohma? To be different from Zelda and King Dedede, Ganondorf could use Gohma's silhouette like a dark magic spell, or Ganondorf could place a breakable sigil which players must destroy before Gohma enters the match. Would that match your idea of a warlord? For my non-SSB Ganondorf moveset, I plan to allow Ganondorf to somehow summon and use Gohma.

 

[Your Hero]

So I have a question for you guys: If Sakurai did not have the opportunity to de-clone Ganondorf, would you rather he maintained his Melee/Brawl play-style (ie a heavyweight Captain Falcon), or if he gave Ganondorf his sword and turned him into a heavyweight Link clone (with different specials)?

The reason I ask is because most Ganondorf fans I've seen always want Ganondorf with his sword. If he maybe kept his special attacks the same but incorporated Link's sword attacks for the rest of his moveset (just slower/stronger), would you guys be satisfied or still feel like he's too much of a clone? I personally enjoy Ganondorf the way his but do wish he'd have some sword attacks. Maybe turning him into a heavyweight mix of Link/Captain Falcon would make him a bit better for the majority of Ganondorf fans?

 

[Hexaped]

I am one of the Ganondorf fans who is not too excited for a weapon moveset. I do not particularly want Ganondorf to remain a Captain Falcon clone either, but I enjoy Ganondorf's short range. So I would rather have him remain how he is. I shall not try to state or guess what the majority of fans want, though. Have you tried to create a new Ganondorf moveset, Your Hero? Would you like to try to create one now?

 

[Your Hero]

In all honesty I'm not too picky about Ganondorf's moveset. I've always liked Captain Falcon and Ganondorf as they were. I'm just curious to see what other people think about the idea of switching Ganondorf into a different kind of clone. We've never had a clone that incorporated two or more character's attacks and it could make him more interesting.

I don't think Ganondorf would work very well as a pure heavyweight sword user because Ike already sort of fills that niche. I do think he should have some sword attacks though, when he's on the ground at least.

 

[Xigger]

Ganondorf's usual niche is transformations, dark magic, and pure power. I could see him using swords, but I don't see any reason to expect Ganondorf to become a full-on sword user. He's only ever wielded a sword a few times, and not for long at that.

 

[Hexaped]

I should have stated earlier that Ganondorf could use the dagger he has in OoT. With that dagger, which is canonical, Ganondorf receives slightly more range, receives a weapon, and becomes more distinguished from Captain Falcon and other sword wielders. Ganondorf is a thief too, Xigger!

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'd much rather Ganondorf use the trident, and have his Final Smash turned into the classic "Pig Ganon." But I don't want Ganondorf to use an entirely weapon-based moveset. Honestly, if he HAS to remain a clone, make him a clone of Robin if anyone. Robin would fit Ganondorf way better than Captain Falcon.

But seriously Ganondorf has enough to go by on his own.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

A "spell-sword" would be ideal.

• strong sword attacks as smashes.
• aerials be imbued by dark magic physical attacks like the stomp for D-air, his "fist-dunk" with dark magic for F-air etc.
• specials be magic attacks (like teleport for up-b, Oot ground punch for down special, side special the same as Brawl/PM, N-special dead man's volley.
• regular A moves can all vary depending on their use, like the Sparta kick can remain the same. Up tilt be a magic attack for juggles, Jab should be a one-two combo that includes the melee jab followed by the brawl jab imbued by magic etc.
• Running should be a float over the ground (like Mewtwo) with a new magical running attack.

This way we get the best of all worlds

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yes, EXACTLY! Ganondorf should DEFINITELY "float" while he runs. He'd still be a heavyweight character, though.

 

[Hexaped]

Though I also like to imagine Ganondorf with a float dash, I do not want him to have that. I like how Ganondorf is often reserved with his magic. If you compare the way Ganondorf and Zant fight, for example, you see Ganondorf is reserved with his magic. Ganondorf does not seem to use magic for many things, like many other fictional magic-users. The problem, though, is Ganondorf's fame from his boss fight in OoT, a rare time where he overused magic. That fight alone could convince some that Ganondorf should float instead of walk.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Though I also like to imagine Ganondorf with a float dash, I do not want him to have that. I like how Ganondorf is often reserved with his magic. If you compare the way Ganondorf and Zant fight, for example, you see Ganondorf is reserved with his magic. Ganondorf does not seem to use magic for many things, like many other fictional magic-users. The problem, though, is Ganondorf's fame from his boss fight in OoT, a rare time where he overused magic. That fight alone could convince some that Ganondorf should float instead of walk.

Its a toss-up really... float would be cool but even if he doesn't he should have a menacing run. And not the "old man jog" he got in Brawl

 

[Hexaped]

Certainly. Ganondorf's dash was somewhat unsatisfying in SSBB. A video on YouTube showed me that Ganondorf already had a satisfying run animation in Twilight Princess. During the TP battle, Ganondorf runs toward Link to perform a downward slash, and that run animation looks satisfying in SSBB.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Certainly. Ganondorf's dash was somewhat unsatisfying in SSBB. A video on YouTube showed me that Ganondorf already had a satisfying run animation in Twilight Princess. During the TP battle, Ganondorf runs toward Link to perform a downward slash, and that run animation looks satisfying in SSBB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeM6DsrjDtY&feature=youtu.be

watch at 1:10

its a PM mod (an older version the newest one is v0.5) for Ganon giving him 2 original move sets one with sword and one with magic. at 1:10 the animation you talk about is used for his down special.

I love this mod I recommend everyone check it out.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Im hopeful ganondorf would get the overhaul he deserves, but with how close so many characters has seemed to stay to their previous version im very fearful. It might end up another case of tradition for traditions sake on sakurai's part, while its good for those that mained him, it really does nothing for the character and he can never be truly realized IMO if he doesnt move forward. Hell even bowser got some new stuff, so their is really no excuse at this point other then pleasing one side while leaving the other to hang.

 

[Kamiko]

Though I also like to imagine Ganondorf with a float dash, I do not want him to have that. I like how Ganondorf is often reserved with his magic. If you compare the way Ganondorf and Zant fight, for example, you see Ganondorf is reserved with his magic. Ganondorf does not seem to use magic for many things, like many other fictional magic-users. The problem, though, is Ganondorf's fame from his boss fight in OoT, a rare time where he overused magic. That fight alone could convince some that Ganondorf should float instead of walk.

In Oot, Ganondorf was younger, inexperienced, and had just attained god-like power. It's normal for people to act that way in those kinds of situations. Cemented in by the casual hand-on-hip pose he had in the first part of the fight, he was clearly showing off. That probably really was like a game of tennis to him.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Im hopeful ganondorf would get the overhaul he deserves, but with how close so many characters has seemed to stay to their previous version im very fearful. It might end up another case of tradition for traditions sake on sakurai's part, while its good for those that mained him, it really does nothing for the character and he can never be truly realized IMO if he doesnt move forward. Hell even bowser got some new stuff, so their is really no excuse at this point other then pleasing one side while leaving the other to hang.

I'm not fearful of Ganondorf, because Sakurai has been improving characters left and right. In past games, he was hesitant to make major changes, now he's doing just that. The characters who are unchanged MAKE SENSE to be unchanged. Ganondorf doesn't. Ganondorf is the main antagonist of the Zelda series with tons of his own potential through his many, many, MANY boss battles.

Before Robin's reveal, I wasn't sure, but after Robin's reveal, I'm confident he knows exactly what he's doing and Ganondorf will get the revamp he deserves. I know most of you probably aren't too familiar with FE, but FE is my third-most popular Nintendo franchise right behind Zelda and Donkey Kong, and Sakurai did his research. He knew exactly what to do for a new Fire Emblem rep. I'm not worried, he's fixing characters left and right where needed. Toon Link makes sense to be a clone, Ganondorf doesn't.