Ganondorf

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Yes, video game characters get lots of abilities.

When Sakurai gives Link and Mario the same diversity in their movesets, I'll look at retracting my statement. If Palutena ends up with more diversity in her moveset than Link, who boasts over 25 years worth of items to pick from for his B moves, then you may have a little egg on your face.

I'm not judging him for favouring his own stuff, by the way. I'd probably do the same thing. I'm simply saying that he has a track record, and Palutena doesn't seem to be an exception. He gave Dedede an original moveset before Ganondorf. I mean, really.

#omgbias

Link may have a diversity of items over the years, but only a few of them are essential to his character aside from the sword and shield: Bow and Arrows, Bombs, Boomerang, Claw/Hookshot plus the Spin Attack. Most of those items appear in every Zelda game; replace one of those tools with any other item in his arsenal and you can tell that something feels amiss. In his gaming career, despite being able to use other items as well, Link generally sticks to those because it defines him. Mario is in the same boat, his characteristics moves are in Smash already.

Which is why it makes sense that they have what they have in Smash while Palutena gets to use the several powers of the grid from Kid Icarus since she hasn't had the privilege to have a weapon or ability of choice that defines her. Add the fact that each newcomer seems to bring their own gimmick to the game while Palutena offers nothing particularly unique at first glace; until you realize that she has more variety of customizable moves.

 

[crotch protector]

Link may have a diversity of items over the years, but only a few of them are essential to his character aside from the sword and shield: Bow and Arrows, Bombs, Boomerang, Claw/Hookshot plus the Spin Attack. Most of those items appear in every Zelda game; replace one of those tools with any other item in his arsenal and you can tell that something feels amiss. In his gaming career, despite being able to use other items as well, Link generally sticks to those because it defines him. Mario is in the same boat, his characteristics moves are in Smash already.

Which is why it makes sense that they have what they have in Smash while Palutena gets to use the several powers of the grid from Kid Icarus since she hasn't had the privilege to have a weapon or ability of choice that defines her. Add the fact that each newcomer seems to bring their own gimmick to the game while Palutena offers nothing particularly unique at first glace; until you realize that she has more variety of customizable moves.

From where I'm sitting, the whole point of the customizable moveset should be to add things that wouldn't normally define a character. Yes, Link's trademark items will be his defaults, but he has a huge repertoire of other items that would be great for flavour.

None of this is relevant to Ganondorf beyond the my original point that Sakurai favours his own creations, which has hurt Ganondorf more than most (imo). Ganondorf doesn't have any ability "essential to his character", as you put it, with the exception of an magic projectile (which has been conspicuously absent from his moveset for his previous two Smash outings). Why isn't Ganondorf's trademark his diversity? He's used a sword, a trident, two swords, possessed characters, summoned evil crap, transformed into evil crap, used portals, and constantly used various other nefarious magics.

He deserves some love, and thus far Sakurai has given him a clone moveset (Melee), followed by a nerf to that same moveset (Brawl). I get that you like Palutena (I haven't played KI:U, but I love more female representation on the roster), but if you're trying to argue that she's somehow more deserving of all these unique moves than Ganondorf is of a damn energy projectile, then I'm afraid we're going to have issues, mate.

#omgbias

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

From where I'm sitting, the whole point of the customizable moveset should be to add things that wouldn't normally define a character. Yes, Link's trademark items will be his defaults, but he has a huge repertoire of other items that would be great for flavour.

None of this is relevant to Ganondorf beyond the my original point that Sakurai favours his own creations, which has hurt Ganondorf more than most (imo). Ganondorf doesn't have any ability "essential to his character", as you put it, with the exception of an magic projectile (which has been conspicuously absent from his moveset for his previous two Smash outings). Why isn't Ganondorf's trademark his diversity? He's used a sword, a trident, two swords, possessed characters, summoned evil crap, transformed into evil crap, used portals, and constantly used various other nefarious magics.

He deserves some love, and thus far Sakurai has given him a clone moveset (Melee), followed by a nerf to that same moveset (Brawl). I get that you like Palutena (I haven't played KI:U, but I love more female representation on the roster), but if you're trying to argue that she's somehow more deserving of all these unique moves than Ganondorf is of a damn energy projectile, then I'm afraid we're going to have issues, mate.

#omgbias

Oh, I never said that she is more deserving than others. It's just that when I see people say why she has 12 customizable moves, I just need to explain why and bring Uprising as an example. Sure Sakurai has showed some bias but for Palutena it is not a case of "She is my adopted child so I have to give here special treatment" but because of a gameplay mechanic of her game.

I just want Ganondorf to be good again, regardless of what they give him.

 

[Morbi]

PM OoT Ganon looks amazing to me. Maybe you're just looking at it wrong. Or maybe it's because he isn't as ugly?

Or perhaps it is because he is even more repugnant? Those bishi-eyes do not send me any messages that are not inherently intimidating.

 

[Gusto]

Supposed to be a leak of Ganondorf in the new Smash... apparently an HD screenshot is too mainstream.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Supposed to be a leak of Ganondorf in the new Smash... apparently an HD screenshot is too mainstream.

Isn't that picture of Ganondorf on the bottom a stock fan pic?

If not then I'm still skeptical about a blurry picture like this.

 

[Trigger123]

Supposed to be a leak of Ganondorf in the new Smash... apparently an HD screenshot is too mainstream.

Looks like the same animation as in brawl I'm not buying it but It fits on the screen well but the blurry image doesn't help.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Looks weird so it's hard to tell for me. Not that I doubt Ganondorf's return anyways.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

At 26:47 you can see just about the exact screenshot from the picture above, the third player that Ganondorf supposedly is, is actually another Link.
E3: 2014
Not yet, I'm sure he'll be confirmed soon though. They're probably working on giving him his own, shiny new moveset.

 

[ORVO5]

At 26:47 you can see just about the exact screenshot from the picture above, the third player that Ganondorf supposedly is, is actually another Link.
E3: 2014
Not yet, I'm sure he'll be confirmed soon though. They're probably working on giving him his own, shiny new moveset.

I really hope that happens! He's way too amazing to be Falcondorf. Where are all the villains in this game?! It's so happy!

Supposed to be a leak of Ganondorf in the new Smash... apparently an HD screenshot is too mainstream.

As awesome as this is, the way it's faked can be easily spotted if you check out how his percentage is blurred. The motion of the other status icons are moving in the opposite direction. Woops! I wish this was real though.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

I really hope that happens! He's way too amazing to be Falcondorf. Where are all the villains in this game?! It's so happy!


As awesome as this is, the way it's faked can be easily spotted if you check out how his percentage is blurred. The motion of the other status icons are moving in the opposite direction. Woops! I wish this was real though.

I have always wondered... why Falcon? Why would they give Ganondorf Captain Falcon's move set? Of all the characters they could have used... why Falcon?
It's pretty obviously fake but I just decided to deal the final blow. XD
That sounded really cool O.O

 

[smashingDoug]

I have always wondered... why Falcon? Why would they give Ganondorf Captain Falcon's move set? Of all the characters they could have used... why Falcon?
It's pretty obviously fake but I just decided to deal the final blow. XD
That sounded really cool O.O

i like to think pecause of the punching he did in oot so it just seem like a good idea to give him the CF moves

 

[ORVO5]

I have always wondered... why Falcon? Why would they give Ganondorf Captain Falcon's move set? Of all the characters they could have used... why Falcon?
It's pretty obviously fake but I just decided to deal the final blow. XD
That sounded really cool O.O

I've wondered that myself. I guess it's the closest and/or easiest they could find that they thought fits Ganondorf. What confuses me is that he had his sword in Brawl yet.. it's just a taunt. WTF? Lol.

I really hope they give him more ranged attacks. He's slow and heavy, I get it, but he could use some epic dark spells for attacks.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

I've wondered that myself. I guess it's the closest and/or easiest they could find that they thought fits Ganondorf. What confuses me is that he had his sword in Brawl yet.. it's just a taunt. WTF? Lol.

I really hope they give him more ranged attacks. He's slow and heavy, I get it, but he could use some epic dark spells for attacks.

Maybe it was because they were about the same size?
Ooh, ooh, ooh! I bet you could give him that orb thing that he always does in the games, like the orbs where you have to play tennis with him in order to beat him. He does that in like every game, it's perfect!

 

[ORVO5]

Maybe it was because they were about the same size?
Ooh, ooh, ooh! I bet you could give him that orb thing that he always does in the games, like the orbs where you have to play tennis with him in order to beat him. He does that in like every game, it's perfect!

I agree! Except hopefully it wouldn't be that easy to throw back at Ganondorf, lol.

 

[Kamiko]

I have always wondered... why Falcon? Why would they give Ganondorf Captain Falcon's move set? Of all the characters they could have used... why Falcon?
It's pretty obviously fake but I just decided to deal the final blow. XD
That sounded really cool O.O

Body type. Sakurai said it himself, but I'm not sure where to find that quote again. Hopefully someone who keeps track of those things will post a link, but if not I'll see if I can track it down.

 

[Skyfox2000]

Would you want Ganondorf to have his Sword or Trident?

 

[ORVO5]

Would you want Ganondorf to have his Sword or Trident?

HE HAS A TRIDENT?! You just made me so angry at Nintendo. How can they leave that out?! LOL.

 

[Kamiko]

HE HAS A TRIDENT?! You just made me so angry at Nintendo. How can they leave that out?! LOL.

The Trident was never used by Ganondorf in human form, only in demon form as Ganon. But as they're the same person, many people want to see it brought into Smash. I'd prefer to have Ganon as a separate character slot if that happens though.

 

[crotch protector]

Would you want Ganondorf to have his Sword or Trident?

Of those two, Trident.

But honestly I'm okay if he keeps using his fists. It's just his B moves that need to be spruced up.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I never minded the idea of turning Ganondorf into a fistfighter that liked getting down and dirty.

I DID mind that he copied a character he had no relation to besides body shape in order to do so.

So yeah, I at least hope for a Palutena-ish situation where he at least has different B moves available to him via custom specials.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

They can keep him relatively the same but change a few key things to make him stand out as an evil wizard more.

Neutral B should be his famous projectile.
Up B should be a teleport.
Down B can stay the same except he uses his fist instead of his foot. And in the Air he would land with a shock wave like the OoT ground punch.
Side b should stay the same.
A gliding running animation/different running attack.
Smashes need to incorporate magic, Fsmash can be his "old" Warlock punch animation (with darkness effect mind you...) Down smash can be an electric shock wave. Up smash can be a magical open-handed uppercut.
Jab should be a 1-2 combo using his melee and followed by the brawl animation with added magic for range.
All his Aerials should incorporate darkness electric magic for added range + effect. That would make them more unique and a more brutish less acrobatic animations would be better.
Nair should be something different perhaps something like Mewtwo's Nair from Melee.
But all (except Fair and Dair) can receive different more appropriate animations without changes the moves much.

These are ideas to keep his core game play the same but making unique as well. Mainly inspired by this mod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeM6DsrjDtY&feature=youtu.be (skip to 1:30) for PM.

But Sakurai and Bandai have a lot to draw inspiration from for Ganondorf. And if he is a clone again I know many fans (including myself) will be disappointed once again...

 

[RCyclone]

They can keep him relatively the same but change a few key things to make him stand out as an evil wizard more.

Neutral B should be his famous projectile.
Up B should be a teleport.
Down B can stay the same except he uses his fist instead of his foot. And in the Air he would land with a shock wave like the OoT ground punch.
Side b should stay the same.
A gliding running animation/different running attack.
Smashes need to incorporate magic, Fsmash can be his "old" Warlock punch animation (with darkness effect mind you...) Down smash can be an electric shock wave. Up smash can be a magical open-handed uppercut.
Jab should be a 1-2 combo using his melee and followed by the brawl animation with added magic for range.
All his Aerials should incorporate darkness electric magic for added range + effect. That would make them more unique and a more brutish less acrobatic animations would be better.
Nair should be something different perhaps something like Mewtwo's Nair from Melee.
But all (except Fair and Dair) can receive different more appropriate animations without changes the moves much.

These are ideas to keep his core game play the same but making unique as well. Mainly inspired by this mod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeM6DsrjDtY&feature=youtu.be (skip to 1:30) for PM.

But Sakurai and Bandai have a lot to draw inspiration from for Ganondorf. And if he is a clone again I know many fans (including myself) will be disappointed once again...

I like those ideas for moves for Ganondorf.

It would also be great if his up tilt was actually a real up tilt instead of another smash attack that was useless most of the time, except in a rare edge guard situation.

I know I will be disappointed if he is a clone again.

 

[pawaa]

My only dream its that sakurai give him his powers from ocarina of time and maybe one habilitie with a sword.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little nervous now after Lucina was announced that Ganon might still be a semi-clone.

I do hope he retains a similar game play style. But they can do so much to make it more unique and fitting.

 

[Hexaped]

If Ganondorf does get move variations, what would Mr. Sakurai do with the down special? Maybe he would change it into an evasive technique like Ganon's ALttP teleport. Anyway, I have been drawing a sprite in 16-bit style:

I am creating a moveset for pre-Triforce Ganondorf. But not a SSB moveset. It is more like a general, 2D platformer moveset. Use the sprite if you want. No credit neccesary. You may remove my username from it too.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

If Ganondorf does get move variations, what would Mr. Sakurai do with the down special? Maybe he would change it into an evasive technique like Ganon's ALttP teleport. Anyway, I have been drawing a sprite in 16-bit style:

I am creating a moveset for pre-Triforce Ganondorf. But not a SSB moveset. It is more like a general, 2D platformer moveset. Use the sprite if you want. No credit neccesary. You may remove my username from it too.

That's pretty neat, thanks!
If they're using TP Ganondorf than that opens a lot of options, particularly with the sword because the entire ending fight in TP is basically a sword duel that is by far one of my favorite final fights in LoZ. For example he has one move where he jumps about ten feet in the area, lands and stabs at you. That could be an up smash. Than there's one where he pretty much charges you and slashes, which is where you then clash swords, there's a side move or even a dash. I think Ganondorf should a sword but also keep some of that dark magic he uses in brawl because that is pretty cool.

 

[SmashBroski]

Obviously we're pro-Ganon over here, but I read this post that got on my nerves, which I'll paraphrase:

"Unless the development team can fix Brawl's Ganondorf, then Ganondorf should get cut."

Absolutely absurd argument in my book, Bowser's been consistently terrible (subjective) especially in regards to Melee & Brawl's metagame but Bowser's gotten a revamp that seems to benefit him very much.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Obviously we're pro-Ganon over here, but I read this post that got on my nerves, which I'll paraphrase:

"Unless the development team can fix Brawl's Ganondorf, then Ganondorf should get cut."

Absolutely absurd argument in my book, Bowser's been consistently terrible (subjective) especially in regards to Melee & Brawl's metagame but Bowser's gotten a revamp that seems to benefit him very much.

Totally agreed.
Zelda has never been good. She's never been above mid-tier, and that was in melee. I don't think she should be cut (especially since she's my main). Slow characters usually place low, the high risk/ high reward play style that Ganondorf (and other characters like him) has doesn't seem to be really a good strategy in smash. Slow doesn't seem to work. If you have two characters that are clones, chances are the faster clone will place higher, just look at Link and Toon Link.
I expect Ganondorf to get his own move set and get some nice revamps while keeping his high risk/ high reward style that is iconic to him.

 

[crotch protector]

Obviously we're pro-Ganon over here, but I read this post that got on my nerves, which I'll paraphrase:

"Unless the development team can fix Brawl's Ganondorf, then Ganondorf should get cut."

Absolutely absurd argument in my book, Bowser's been consistently terrible (subjective) especially in regards to Melee & Brawl's metagame but Bowser's gotten a revamp that seems to benefit him very much.

Brawl Ganon was pretty terrible, and worse; he was (still) a clone. If he's terrible in Smash 4, but has a revamped moveset, people will be happy with his inclusion regardless.

I think the clone factor hurts him more than his lack of competitiveness.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I don't even care that he's a clone. He uses magic, so he could be a brutal, down-and-dirty Zelda semi-clone and I'd be fine,

I just hate that he's a clone of someone that isn't even from his own damn series.

There are a ton of personal reasons why I think Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone will forever be the laziest thing Sakurai has done, but I'm losing more and more hope that Ganondorf will get a revamp. He was a clone in Brawl, where he had the most time to change, and I think he'll stay a clone in Smash 4 as well.

I think the thing holding him back is that there are a few people out there who not only liked Ganondorf just the way he was in Melee, but would despise to see him change, even if his old moveset was given to an F-Zero character. Sakurai is probably keeping these people in mind more than the people who want him changed, I think, which makes me sad.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I would say I just want Ganondorf in, he's my main, always has been, always will be despite his moveset, although it would be nice to see a move set change not only so he has actual moves from the series he represents, but to make everybody stop complaining about him.

I think Demise's sword would work best, if you want Ghirahim, then there he is, he's Ganondorf's sword, I think Ganondorf will always play the power game though, he should at least play like Bowser, except with a sword and magic attacks.

 

[ORVO5]

How would you guys react if another Zelda villain replaced Ganondorf? Like Ghirahim or Demise?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

How would you guys react if another Zelda villain replaced Ganondorf? Like Ghirahim or Demise?

That's the most stupid thing they could possibly do.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd be outraged cause they should've replaced Sheik with Impa.

 

[RCyclone]

I don't even care that he's a clone. He uses magic, so he could be a brutal, down-and-dirty Zelda semi-clone and I'd be fine,

I just hate that he's a clone of someone that isn't even from his own damn series.

There are a ton of personal reasons why I think Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone will forever be the laziest thing Sakurai has done, but I'm losing more and more hope that Ganondorf will get a revamp. He was a clone in Brawl, where he had the most time to change, and I think he'll stay a clone in Smash 4 as well.

I think the thing holding him back is that there are a few people out there who not only liked Ganondorf just the way he was in Melee, but would despise to see him change, even if his old moveset was given to an F-Zero character. Sakurai is probably keeping these people in mind more than the people who want him changed, I think, which makes me sad.

I agree with all of this, I wish this wasn't the case, I want Ganondorf to be a great unique character, but I have that weird feeling that this is what will happen and it's making me extremely frustrated when I think about this. *sigh*

How would you guys react if another Zelda villain replaced Ganondorf? Like Ghirahim or Demise?

I would be extremely angry if that happened!

 

[Reila]

How would you guys react if another Zelda villain replaced Ganondorf? Like Ghirahim or Demise?

This is has 0% chances of happening. Replacing Ganondorf with another villain would be as stupid as adding a villain character from Metroid who isn't named Ridley. I love Ghirahim, he is popular, but he is not the main villain of the Zelda series. Demise is cool (haters gonna hate), but he is only the final boss in Skyward Sword (the main villain of the game happens to be Ghirahim). If anything, we will get Ganondorf AND a new Zelda villain, aka Ghirahim. In the worst scenario, we will get only Ganondorf again.

 

[Hexaped]

I would be sad if Ganondorf was removed, but I would be pleased with new, non-clone TLoZ characters. Ganondorf has always been one of, and often my primary, main, too, but I should not let character cuts sway me. We will always have Ganondorf in SSBM and SSBB too. If it is Demise who particularly replaces Ganondorf, I will feel particularly sad, but I will try Demise anyway.
Anyway, is everyone excited to see what happens to Ganondorf in SSB4?! He is, essentially, the most special veteran to see, due to his situation. He is the one veteran who we may assume will receive an entire moveset change - the only veteran! This group must celebrate twice on release day: once for SSB4, and again for our expectations for Ganondorf!! We already know we can play in his valley! Think of all the new moves Ganondorf may receive, folks!!

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I would be sad if Ganondorf was removed, but I would be pleased with new, non-clone TLoZ characters. Ganondorf has always been one of, and often my primary, main, too, but I should not let character cuts sway me. We will always have Ganondorf in SSBM and SSBB too. If it is Demise who particularly replaces Ganondorf, I will feel particularly sad, but I will try Demise anyway.
Anyway, is everyone excited to see what happens to Ganondorf in SSB4?! He is, essentially, the most special veteran to see, due to his situation. He is the one veteran who we may assume will receive an entire moveset change - the only veteran! This group must celebrate twice on release day: once for SSB4, and again for our expectations for Ganondorf!! We already know we can play in his valley! Think of all the new moves Ganondorf may receive, folks!!

Try not to be overly optimistic. A lot of Ganondorf fans were expecting changes to him during all the Brawl hype, but he turned out to be a clone still, with just a new forward special for Sakurai to call it a day.

I can only expect 4 different things:

1) He is just a buffed version of his Brawl form, and his custom specials are mere variations of his Warlock Punch, Flame Choke, Wizard's Foot, and Dark Dive specials

2) He is also a buffed Brawl Ganondorf, but he is given the Palutena treatment and has 8 extra specials instead of variations on the same old Captain Falcon copycat moves, which is still his default moveset

3) He is given the Wolf treatment and every single one of his normal moves is completely different from Captain Falcon, but his specials stay the same

4) Same as above but with the Palutena treatment--old Captain Falcon copycat moves as default but is able to access different specials via custom moves.

I'm not holding out for 2 and 4, and him being completely decloned is unlikely, so the best I can expect is 1 and 3 in my opinion.

I'm not trying to put anyone down in this thread, I'm just trying to be realistic. I don't like the idea of ANYONE being a clone of a character they have nothing to do with, especially if that character is from another series and ESPECIALLY if the character is someone as major and iconic as Ganondorf, but that's what happened in Melee, and it happened again in Brawl, and I think it'll happen again in Smash 4.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Try not to be overly optimistic. A lot of Ganondorf fans were expecting changes to him during all the Brawl hype, but he turned out to be a clone still, with just a new forward special for Sakurai to call it a day.

I can only expect 4 different things:

1) He is just a buffed version of his Brawl form, and his custom specials are mere variations of his Warlock Punch, Flame Choke, Wizard's Foot, and Dark Dive specials

2) He is also a buffed Brawl Ganondorf, but he is given the Palutena treatment and has 8 extra specials instead of variations on the same old Captain Falcon copycat moves, which is still his default moveset

3) He is given the Wolf treatment and every single one of his normal moves is completely different from Captain Falcon, but his specials stay the same

4) Same as above but with the Palutena treatment--old Captain Falcon copycat moves as default but is able to access different specials via custom moves.

I'm not holding out for 2 and 4, and him being completely decloned is unlikely, so the best I can expect is 1 and 3 in my opinion.

I'm not trying to put anyone down in this thread, I'm just trying to be realistic. I don't like the idea of ANYONE being a clone of a character they have nothing to do with, especially if that character is from another series and ESPECIALLY if the character is someone as major and iconic as Ganondorf, but that's what happened in Melee, and it happened again in Brawl, and I think it'll happen again in Smash 4.

Hey, a little realism is never unwelcome, someone has to pull us back to the ground.
What Sakurai did to Ganondorf in brawl was a complete and total cop out. However brawl Ganondorf definitely seems more iconic now and I expect something based off of that for his move set, but I highly doubt they'll just buff him. He's a good enough character to carry his own weight and if Sakurai keeps him cloned like he is than he is wasting the character.