Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[ballin4life]

Does it matter if he is TASing? It's really about creativity...

At the very least, he is probably using savestates in the creation process... but I don't watch combos for input difficulty so I don't really care.


Of course it is kind of annoying when I try to make combos and I have to do the beginning of a combo over and over to even figure out what I am going to do later on lol

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

If he's not TASing, RickySSB is better.

Agreed.
But as ballin said, what matters for a combo vid is creativity.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Sooooo.

I sat in my room for a few hours today practicing shine jabs and I still feel as bad about them as I did this morning <_<

how do you kids freaking pull em off in matches...

 

[ballin4life]

What problem are you having with them? I try to remember the sound of a successful shine jab in my head and press the buttons with that rhythm.

Also it's not like they are that good anyway ...

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

^^ this
They're really cool for show off/presume.

 

[Sangoku]

I've TASed first hit of uair-> shine -> shine to dtilt (on DK obviously).

Who's going to incorporate that in a full combo?

If nobody does I might try to, but with my skills it's going to take months.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Despite them not being practical, I really like doing em :3

I do find they come easier every day.

 

[ballin4life]

They are kinda good against Samus ... watch the end of my combo video for details

and Mario/Luigi too

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

yeah, floaties take it pretty well, but it's like a challenge to place a heavy in a combo to constantly perform that.

 

[rpotts]

I have more luck against heavies at high percentage, since you can pop them up with a jab / uair and the shine doesn't send them away as quickly. Floaties are nice since you can do it grounded and at lower percents.

 

[Battlecow]

Ricky 2gud. Not as ballin' as Prince IMO tho.

 

[The Star King]

Ricky is much, much better. Seriously.

 

[Battlecow]

So quick to dump your loyalties. And here I thought I was Ricky's biggest fan.

Prince is better. I was gonna post a combo link to prove it, but then we'd get in a combo war and they're both so awesome that whoever posted last would win.

Prince is better though. Really. Prince has tech skill, but prince just does crazy, creative **** that no one's ever seen before. Even more than Ricky does.

 

[ciaza]

Prince = creative master
Rick = tech skill master
Isai = spacing master

COOL?

 

[DMoogle]

Prince = creative and tech skill master
Rick = tech skill master
Isai = ultra everything master

Fixed, IMO.

 

[Battlecow]

Ricky's way creative as well. Like, in the extreme. I just think that prince has a little bit of an edge.

Isai's combos are 1337|-|4><, but not better than Ricky/Prince's.

 

[DMoogle]

Yeah I take that back about Ricky. I'm watching some of his videos now (I wasn't subscribed before), and he definitely is very creative.

Isai's combos sure as hell aren't any worse than Ricky's or Prince's.

 

[Battlecow]

I worship Isai's combos as gods

but they are not as good as Prince's.

 

[DMoogle]

I think you need to re-watch Isai's combo videos, then. Granted, some stuff may not seem incredibly impressive or creative, but that's only because common play has evolved to a point where many of Isai's techniques have been incorporated. But he pioneered the way for players to evolve strategy... he was the first (at least widely-known) person to utilize a lot of strategies.

I remember way (WAY) early on in my online career, he threw me off the ledge with Mario (I can't remember who I was), then used d-air consecutively three times on me, and it blew my mind. Now, I wouldn't blink an eye, because that's a commonplace strategy. But back then, he was the only one who did it, and that's the case for many of his techniques... he was the first (widely-known) one to use them.

 

[ballin4life]

Isai's FoxonFalcon is one of the best combos and so are MarioonLink and LinkonFalcon3 ... Isai's peak combo value is ridiculous. You shouldn't penalize him for some of his older videos either - he has combos from like 2006 that are still pretty good today, but would have been mind blowing back then.

Prince has great versatility since he has a LOT of really cool combos with all characters.

dumb tier ordering:

SSS
Ricky
Prince
Isai

SS
Tambor
DsG
Alancitu

S
gonbenouki
ballin4life

A
yodaredaradara
poida
chuckrox00

Maybe I overrate myself but whatever this is the bestest combo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQko9LRAayA

 

[Sangoku]

I watched it, read your comment about the celebration, rewatched it and I almost loled in the library...

You should be SS tier with that combo and that celebration.

 

[The Star King]

Ricky is HELLA creative, don't know what you guys are talking about.

Boy oh boy, I want to see where I end up on that combo tier list when I finally get around to recording all the combos I have planned.

 

[Battlecow]

I think you need to re-watch Isai's combo videos, then. Granted, some stuff may not seem incredibly impressive or creative, but that's only because common play has evolved to a point where many of Isai's techniques have been incorporated. But he pioneered the way for players to evolve strategy... he was the first (at least widely-known) person to utilize a lot of strategies.

I remember way (WAY) early on in my online career, he threw me off the ledge with Mario (I can't remember who I was), then used d-air consecutively three times on me, and it blew my mind. Now, I wouldn't blink an eye, because that's a commonplace strategy. But back then, he was the only one who did it, and that's the case for many of his techniques... he was the first (widely-known) one to use them.

Isai is a famous forerunner and super-pioneer of all the techniques we use today? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

The issue at hand is his combos. I'd argue that we shouldn't institute a sliding scale; they should all be measured by today's standards. In which case his combos (NOT his matches) are, IMO, below Prince's and Ricky's.

 

[Surri-Sama]

The issue at hand is his combos. I'd argue that we shouldn't institute a sliding scale; they should all be measured by today's standards. .

This is why such a comparison is foolish to start with...but again back on topic people...

 

[SSBPete]

Isai's FoxonFalcon is one of the best combos and so are MarioonLink and LinkonFalcon3 ... Isai's peak combo value is ridiculous. You shouldn't penalize him for some of his older videos either - he has combos from like 2006 that are still pretty good today, but would have been mind blowing back then.

Prince has great versatility since he has a LOT of really cool combos with all characters.

dumb tier ordering:

SSS
Ricky
Prince
Isai

SS
Tambor
DsG
Alancitu

S
gonbenouki
ballin4life

A
yodaredaradara
poida
chuckrox00

Maybe I overrate myself but whatever this is the bestest combo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQko9LRAayA

replace ricky with alancitu and you got yourself a tier list. prince is undoubtably the best in my opinion. and as for alancitu i think hes amazing and severly underated. also thanks for the mention

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

@Surri-Sama Maybe I lol'd for the same reason you did about that signature, but IDK.
lol

Anyway, Can Fox do a Dair -> Uair to Pika, as he can do it to the other chars?
I haven't tested that.

 

[Sangoku]

How do you uair in a combo?

Do you guys have to slide from c to a in order for it to connect? (after dair for example)

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

No, Just timing it is enough. Dair -> Jump + immediately A(Uair), well timed.

But I don't know if it's doable against pikachu because of his size/stature?

 

[Cbasto]

Do you think Fox is a good character to learn the advanced techniques?
I play Kirby, Pikachu and Falcon ... not very good (i play only vs CPU for the moment) but it's ok (I hope ...). If someone could teach me about spacing ... i'm a little bit confused. When I play online with a friend (rare) , I always get hit instead of hit him...

 

[th3kuzinator]

Fox was the character I first learned when I was getting good. He is very technical so if you are a technical player, like myself, picking him up and practicing his techs in training mode can be very beneficial to your game.

 

[asianaussie]

haha, maybe :\

Fox certainly is technical, and needs a lot of the 'advanced techniques', but I would honestly recommend Falcon. He makes use of pivots, has to use proper jump heights/platdrop aerials, can do pivot ledgehogs, has a recovery aid and is a decent character to have in your arsenal.

Only practise SHDL, shine cancels, full dash pivot ledgehogs etc if you are already well-versed in comboing, spacing, etc. You can make do with SHL alone until you've got everything else under your belt.

 

[ciaza]

But that's the thing aa, Falcon can make use of this and that but it isn't necessary to his game. Even stuff that you said is essential like plat-drop aerials isn't really compulsory for a decent falcon. However with fox you're going to have to know how to do his advanced techniques if you want to be a decent player as him.

Then again I'm a **** fox so what do I know.

 

[asianaussie]

You can make that argument for any character, so I guess the point is moot. I just feel that it's easiest to apply these techniques as Falcon.

Pretty sure SHDL only makes a good Fox gayer, and that non-specific laser use (jump laser) is enough, given the laser's properties. He's fast and good at comboing, he doesn't *need* SHDL, etc.

 

[ciaza]

If a technique is easy doesn't that stop it from being an 'advanced technique' though?

And honestly I would disagree with fox SHL being sufficient. Going up against 1der's fox as Pikachu 1 billion times I can tell you that the second laser, traveling a lot lower to the ground hits you a lot more than the first. It prevents approach so much better and leads to KO's a LOT more.

 

[The Star King]

Err yeah, the second laser of SHDL is more useful. You can shoot a laser at the same height with SHL, nobody shoots high lasers with SHL lol. You kind of defeated yourself.

 

[ciaza]

I don't know of anyone who knows how to do a low SHL that can't also do a SHDL. I'm pretty sure aa meant a high SHL when he mentioned it.

 

[asianaussie]

Uh...I do low short hop lasers all. the. time. I get SHDL about 1/100 tries, so I gave up.

I'm really quite surprised you don't notice.

 

[ballin4life]

low lasers are useful for other things too

it's hard to do SHDL sometimes when you are running forward or turning around or whatever so a low laser is appropriate there (especially in situations where the high laser of the SHDL is a waste anyway)

 

[Mahie]

I was messing around against the computer and noticed that when I turned around in a running animation, the computer's grounded laser ran through me like I was invincible or something.
Is that widely known/looked into?
I can't really play with someone at the moment to test it out but I'd like to know if it gives invincibility frames or just tweaks your hurtbox in a way that you don't get hit by the laser.

 

[ballin4life]

Might be the old 3-d hitbox dodge (your hitboxes move in the 3rd dimension)