Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[ballin4life]

The only time I would consider shine jab practical is when you're shining out of shield, in which case you might as well try to jab lol

Cool for showing off though

Shine jab out of shield is sooo hard

At least for me, when I'm shining out of shield it's because I'm under intense shield pressure so I just mash jump shine to get out of it. This of course messes up my shine jab timing.

There are situations against floaties though where shine jab is good. If they are right around upsmash killing percentage then a shine jab will rack up a little extra damage. Sometimes you can combo fair into shine jab for this purpose.

Repeated shine jabs are a pretty good combo against Samus at ~60-70% ... and it's not like you have too many other options to combo a Samus.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah shine jab is hard out of shield. I think for me it's because the window for the jab is a lot smaller because you can't run "inside" them and hit them with the near-center of the shine like usual, if you know what I mean. You hit them with the edge of the shine when it's out of shield.

 

[dandan]

wouldn't it be more beneficial to shine and then tech chase? i think the success rate would be way higher.

i start dabbling with jab cancels for shield pressure, and it can work wonders, like dash pivot to the other side and jab, then jab cancels, and you can do repeat.
most people are not used to the faster jab cancel, so they will try to jump out of shield or something like that, and it connects (though a char like dk can still upb out of shield).

 

[ballin4life]

What is a jab cancel?

 

[ciaza]

jab>crouch>jab.

This way you avoid doing say a ****ty Samus second jab.

 

[ballin4life]

What is the advantage of doing that for Fox?

 

[ciaza]

I think it's faster than waiting the amount of time required to avoid doing fox's kicks. If that makes sense. dandan would be more suited to answer your question since he's the one recommending it lol.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

But then it'd apply to the second jab, right?

 

[ciaza]

Yeah, it'd apply to second jab as well as fox kicks.

 

[dandan]

you can jab more quickly that way. most noticeable with samus, but can be used pretty well with fox as well.

 

[ballin4life]

What do you mean by jab more quickly?

Do you mean you can do a second jab after your first jab more quickly?

 

[ciaza]

Yeah. For example with Samus you can do first jabs a lot quicker in a row. First jab>crouch>first jab is faster than first jab>wait>first jab.

 

[Mahie]

The best way to do that is to hold down and backwards, at a 45° angle, then press A. There's no need to crouch after each jab that way.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

uh, is there some kind of timing to foxes SHFFDL?

i never can seem to get it, i mean, i only shoot one laser.

 

[ballin4life]

Fast fall what?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

short hop fast fall double laser?

oh, wait, my mistake, short hop double laser.

was thinking about mario for a minute..

but yeah, sometimes i spam the b button and it seems the 2nd laser comes out faster at times, so i'm wondering if there is a timing peripheral to it.

 

[Peek~]

Some Fox men in the past told me that you shouldnt spam the B button

Just experiment and find that speed

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

SHDL: Same principle as Shine cancel.

 

[dandan]

i feel to that it is easier to do if you feel the timing then spam the b button, same as with mario sh dair uair.
will be hard to give advice though as i am on keyboard so i do not know if that would help you.

 

[th3kuzinator]

jump up rly high and just spam the **** outta the b button and get used to the noise of how fast the laser can go at its fastest speed. Pew Pew. Get that timing down in your head and say it to yourself over and over again. Get used to doing it w/o mashing but just two button presses in the air. Learn with a full hop first.

Then just implement it w/ a short hop

 

[ballin4life]

jump up rly high and just spam the **** outta the b button and get used to the noise of how fast the laser can go at its fastest speed. Pew Pew. Get that timing down in your head and say it to yourself over and over again. Get used to doing it w/o mashing but just two button presses in the air. Learn with a full hop first.

Then just implement it w/ a short hop

Basically this. Same thing for shine jabs.

Hear the sound in your head and press the buttons with that rhythm.

 

[Red the Ghost]

I've both seen and personally obtained better results from a single well-timed laser than spamming double laser.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

single lasers are alright but double lasers help alot more with pressure and keeping a safe distance, one laser can be simply be jumped over (don't sheild alot or roll in this game) while two makes it harder to avoid and because fox has a special projectile, it's frames/hitbox are constant until it hits something or goes offscreen.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Savior visited the smash64 section?

Wut.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

SHL is a lot better than SHDL if you want to be safe.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

I don't see how that's true for being safe, even I like/use SHL more.

 

[Mahie]

Because you spend less time airborne on an SHL , therefore leaving less time to the opponent to try to get you while you're firing.

 

[cheeseball341]

Because you spend less time airborne on an SHL , therefore leaving less time to the opponent to try to get you while you're firing.

Isn't is because you can wait a little longer before you commit to your movement? Whereas with shdl, you're committed from the start.

Also, mucking around with running shdl today, I was able to get the second laser to come out at two different heights, which implies there is more than one frame of leeway? Has this ever been checked, or was it just considered a "truth"?

 

[SheerMadness]

Not sure if you can really compare the two.

Obviously you can approach with short hop lasers while you can't with double lasers.

Just know how to use each in the correct situation.

 

[The Star King]

You can move more with short hop lasers, and they're safer.

Short hop double lasers can catch people jumping, and possibly rack up damage faster.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

@The Star King Ok there you go, now I get the answer to the "why".

 

[rpotts]

Did you know you could combo shine -> shine on DK on any surface? I accidentally discovered this practice shinejab and shine dtilt. I got it to combo with shine cancel -> normal shine, and later double shine cancel on flat ground/platforms on dreamland. No dashing required, though that was my next step lol. Pretty easy with first hit uair-> jump shine -> mash b lol.

 

[ballin4life]

Prince uses double shine on DK in one of his combos

 

[ciaza]

Prince has done ****ing everything.

 

[HellxBound]

I spam mario's shdair-uair and it works, but I couldn't get shdl for a long time. Finally started timing it recently, so much easier.

 

[rpotts]

Prince uses double shine on DK in one of his combos

you talking about this combo? He shine cancel -> dash shine cancels on the downward slope of left hyrule, which isn't exactly what i was talking about. I'm talking about standing shine->shine, without moving.

 

[Sangoku]

Look at 3:40 in your video. He uses the first hit of uair, then shine cancel -> shine, just as you said.

Anyway I didn't know that. I should try to do it ingame ^^.

 

[HellxBound]

I would guess it's in a different category of projectile in terms of plane. It was shown in the hitbox thread some moves went into different planes, so I would guess that it bypasses conventional priority, while some moves and shields are able to reach into this particular plane.

Just a hypothesis, not even a theory :\

Laser hits link's bombs, yet link's bombs hit other projectiles that laser doesn't hit.
Spamming bomb is clearly the best defense against lasers evarrr.

 

[rpotts]

Look at 3:40 in your video. He uses the first hit of uair, then shine cancel -> shine, just as you said.

Anyway I didn't know that. I should try to do it ingame ^^.

Yea, that's probably the one ballin was talking about. That is exactly what I did. The first hit of uair isn't necessary, it can be done from the ground. Thanks for pointin in out, ofc prince had already done it

 

[The Star King]

Prince has done ****ing everything.

If he's not TASing, RickySSB is better.