Data FINAL: Confirmed 1.0.6 Patch Notes

[Ixisnaugus]

Can anyone confirm Whether bair got sped up?

As I said in my previous post, none of Sonic's tilts, smashes, aerials or jab were sped up or slowed down. Bair is the same.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I'm still applauded at the fact that ZSS was left unchanged yet characters like ROB and charizard get nerfs...

 

[Camalange]

I appreciate everyone trying out the Spinshot shenanigans. It sounds like Side-B Spinshot with C-Stick may still be possible with proper configuration and timing, so I will test all of these out myself as soon as I can.

As far as Sonic's fundamental moveset goes, I think it's safe to say nothing starts sooner or ends later. No proof thus far that shows otherwise.

HA no longer locks on to things that will kill us, so that is our only verified buff thus far.

 

[Gregory2590]

HA no longer locks on to things that will kill us, so that is our only verified buff thus far.

****ING WHAT *stopped reading thread halfway*

SO IT'S USEFUL AGAINST OLIMAR NOW?

edit: *decides to read thread*

YES

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I wouldn't call it a buff.. just a fix. It's now working as intended.

Just remembered that thread on reddit. lol

 

[Camalange]

I wouldn't call it a buff.. just a fix. It's now working as intended.

Just remembered that thread on reddit. lol

A fix might as well be a buff in my book, lmao.

I try to hold back from commenting on r/cancer but I just couldn't process what I was seeing with that one.

 

[J.APS]

So.. now A+B do a smash attack huh? were I saw this before? oh yeah.. Wiimote! LOL
@ Sonic Orochi that platform canceling thing...still works! I testing it now and I can confirm this:
-A+B activated (or not) it doesn't matter
-Works with:
Down stick+A
Down C-stick
Up stick + Down C-stick (and can do a Upsmash, after the landing animation only do tilts)
^-Looks like only can do a Upsmash (just like before the update)

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Can confirm spinshot using c stick down method still works as normal as long as you have c stick set to attack, so it does tilts now. At least it's still there, because **** the other options of using it.

 

[Ixisnaugus]

I never noticed about UTilt. So it has reduced knockback? Are we absolutely certain? I'm killing Mario at 168% with it (no rage, no DI). What would it have Killed at before if anyone remembers?

EDIT: Also I think some people are going around saying our UThrow has more knockback. Pretty sure that's bs

 

[Sonic Orochi]

No one remembers because no one used it

That was Espy's claim and he said he'd already tested it.

 

[Hickz]

Wtf? I can't do spinshot anymore. What's up? :/

 

[TwicH]

I seem to be having an easier time chaining up-airs and getting guaranteed confirms out of Up-throw, spring, up-air. It might just be me though.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i'm positive uthrow was changed as i can't spring and be anywhere near them to even attempt to bair or uair past 110. I'm hoping we get a data dump soon so we can actually dive into the base knockback and knockback growth changes that occurred.

 

[J.APS]

Ok, tested
HA still avoid the invincibility status of the opponent (don't lock)

 

[Hickz]

I guess SS now only works with C-stick set to tilts

 

[Camalange]

i'm positive uthrow was changed as i can't spring and be anywhere near them to even attempt to bair or uair past 110. I'm hoping we get a data dump soon so we can actually dive into the base knockback and knockback growth changes that occurred.

Sounds like placebo, imo.

Just this morning I tried Spring > Uair/Nair just for ****s and it seemed perfectly fine.

At that high of a percent you should probably be doing a jump before spring anyway...

I guess SS now only works with C-stick set to tilts

Only for Side-B, basically.

 

[J.APS]

I guess SS now only works with C-stick set to tilts

not forget the other 2 options:
-Using the attack buttom
-Using the jump buttom

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

honestly a bit disappointed in this balance patch. I mean what was done in this patch was basically done in the transiton to 3ds > wii u launch. Expect some obvious moves that needed nerfs weren't and specific characters that should have gotten buffs instead were either nerfed or left alone. Hopefully we get another patch come lucas's release that irons out any outstanding bugs/ balance issues that arise with this new meta thats sure to hopefully develop thanks to diddy's nerf.

 

[BCE]

Please, can someone update the OP with translations of all these abreviations ? i have no ideia what means SDR, SDJ, VSDJ, ISDJ,ASDR, VSCJ, ASC, BSD, BSBS. Thanks

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Please, can someone update the OP with translations of all these abreviations ? i have no ideia what means SDR, SDJ, VSDJ, ISDJ,ASDR, VSCJ, ASC, BSD, BSBS. Thanks

http://smashboards.com/threads/sonic-guide-faq-ask-questions-here.371222/

Even if I posted what they mean you (and everyone else who doesn't know Sonic's moveset) would still probably need to know what they are anyway.

 

[Camalange]

We can only repeat ourselves so often.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Heck, even some Sonic mains don't know what they mean.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I feel it's safe to say Sonic got nerfed harder than any other character. Or at least his nerfs have more of an impact on his viability than others. Sonic's frame data is bad. Now he does a lot less damage and can't kill outside of unsafe hard reads. He's still a good character, but he's nowhere near what he was, imo. I'm having a hard time comprehending how they chose what characters they nerfed outside of just looking at twitch chats and reddit threads. Brutal.

 

[VKatana]

Everything in this patch seems so nonsensical and over-reactionary, Nintendo nerfed and buffed things that they didn't need to. They didn't nerf Ness' back throw, but they nerf ROB's up throw? I'm angry at every single thing I've seen so far. Now even Diddy, previously one of the fastest and most satisfying characters in the game, feels like Brawl. This sucks.
Is it true? Did Sonic get hit hard by Sakurai's Nerf rifle? Is he still the same tier he was before? I'm so confused. Do I need to adapt my play at all? Did we just get the short end of the stick? Nerf or nothing? EVERYONE ON HERE IS SPOOKING ME, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK!

 

[Siccarius]

It's not like the back throw can't kill at all. It's still a viable option. Personally I don't think these changes mean much. Even with the less SD damage I was still racking up damage perfectly fine. It's annoying but I doubt it'll knock Sonic down a tier ultimately. I wish they would of changed one of our smashes to have less lag in exchange it's kind of frustrating seeing all the other characters being able to shield once they whiff .

 

[Ixisnaugus]

I feel it's safe to say Sonic got nerfed harder than any other character. Or at least his nerfs have more of an impact on his viability than others. Sonic's frame data is bad. Now he does a lot less damage and can't kill outside of unsafe hard reads. He's still a good character, but he's nowhere near what he was, imo. I'm having a hard time comprehending how they chose what characters they nerfed outside of just looking at twitch chats and reddit threads. Brutal.

What? Sonic has some of the best collective frame data in the game with a good amount of active frames, generally minimal recovery on most of his setup and completely reliable damageboxes. He still has true setups in Bair at high percents, he still deals a lot of damage with optimal punishes and followups, and FSmash is still a relatively safe smash attack with high knockback growth.

 

[ChikoLad]

Wow, I didn't notice any of these changes when I was playing Sonic earlier.

I'm sure they won't effect him too much. I still KO'd a Marth with a B-throw at like 100% or so. Still a perfectly great move.

 

[KeetZ]

I've been fuming over this all day and I still can't believe that they nerfed Sonic to this degree while Ness got a number of buffs. I hope the people who cried for nerfs are happy with this patch...at least until the next top character starts kicking thier ass, and they're too narrow minded to explore their character to counter said top character.

 

[Smog Frog]

how bad are the nerfs? are they bad enough to knock the blue blur out of top tier?

 

[KeetZ]

how bad are the nerfs? are they bad enough to knock the blue blur out of top tier?

He's still top tier I believe. It's just irritating beyond all hell.

 

[KyroChao]

The up B feels like it gets a bit more height, can anyone confirm this? Also, guys, sonic is just fine, we'll have to use reads more often and work around the small damage nerfs, otherwise we're just fine.

 

[Palta King]

I found something interesting about the A+B mechanic. Now it's very easy to input a pivot F-Smash or any smash attack from a perfect pivot. This is more or less a general buff to all characters, but is good to know anyway.
Also, since we are recomended to bind the C-stick to tilts to preserve momentum while doing aerials and more recently, for Spinshot from a SD, there is no practical reason to use the default C-stick configuration.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I am thankful for reliable hitboxes but i'm gonna toss a huge WUT out at best frame data and minimal recovery on moves. All of the top characters outclass sonic in startup and ending lag on their go to moves. Maybe he looks solid overall, but when you're comparing him to the top characters, he's trailing behind. I didn't think he was top 5 before this patch and now I guarantee he's not. I'm obviously not claiming he's bad. He's still very good. He's just not a top character at this point. I have no clue how they can validate these nerfs when luigi zss yoshi and fox are just kicking back having a good time. Then again it seems apparent they base their changes on for glory results. Ganondorf, Mac and Zelda back that up enough.

 

[Heartstring]

To be fair, Pre-patch sonic was easily better than Luigi, ZSS, Yoshi and Fox.

As much as it makes me sad to see these nerfs, Sonic is still the same character with a slightly less incredible punish game (and his punish game was probably the best out of the entire cast anyway) and having to work a bit harder for the K.O's. Sonics game is based pretty much entirely on his mobility, which has been unchanged (and if we count HA as mobility, it's been buffed) so he will still be a top character.

 

[IWinToLose]

Sonic has lost a lot of damage potential, about 10% per connected SD/SC from my observations. This is pretty substantial. Also, if you only hit with the SD/SC hit boxes and not any aerials, you will do no damage. This happens far more often than you might expect.

I feel like this will be the era of Shiek, Pikachu and maybe Diddy still? Well, Diddy got hit pretty hard too.

 

[Camalange]

Spinshot stuff confirmed:

Regardless of A+B being On or Off, Spinshot out of Side-B can not be done with C-Stick. Which is the lamest thing that's ever happened to me. Can still be done with a Jump or Attack input.

On the plus side, if you don't mind the control change, C-Stick set to Tilt reverts Side-B Spinshot back to its former glory.

Final verdict, if y'all were still skeptical.

 

[Syndralix]

I'm probably placebo'ing on this, but I feel like dair autocancels earlier now than it used to. What I'm doing is jump>spring>dair, and if I wait until the peak of the spring the dair will autocancel. Any chance someone can double-check my suspicions?

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

that was already something you could do in previous versions.

 

[Camalange]

I'm probably placebo'ing on this, but I feel like dair autocancels earlier now than it used to. What I'm doing is jump>spring>dair, and if I wait until the peak of the spring the dair will autocancel. Any chance someone can double-check my suspicions?

That's how it normally works.

 

[KeetZ]

I'm probably placebo'ing on this, but I feel like dair autocancels earlier now than it used to. What I'm doing is jump>spring>dair, and if I wait until the peak of the spring the dair will autocancel. Any chance someone can double-check my suspicions?

This has always been the case in smash 4.