Meta Falco: Approaches and Combos/Strings

[BltzZ]

I like the animation of Falco's Up Smash and I'd like it better if it connected better and the hitbox wasn't messed up. Hey, at least it's not Zelda's Up and Side Smash where people fall out more than Falco's Up Smash.

few months back when I was experimenting with falco I kept getting people who would get hit by only the first hit land and punish me :/ now I only use for early combos or punish landings

 

[Ffamran]

I might want to check Fox's Up Smash from past games since it seems to have a longer end lag... Actually, that's an issue since nobody can track end lag and IASA frames unless they record the move in action and count the frames. Still, Fox's Up Smash feels like there's more end lag than in past games and Falco's sure as hell feels like there's more end lag, especially since he sets down after the move. As for Yoshi, probably the same thing.

few months back when I was experimenting with falco I kept getting people who would get hit by only the first hit land and punish me :/ now I only use for early combos or punish landings

I don't get people falling out of it much and it might be because I use it more like an anti air move and have the top part connect rather than the front. I don't know, well since there's a move study thread, we might be able to figure out more about the move. Also, was it you or @Charhazzard who advocated using reverse Up Smash so you would hit with the second hit more? If I remember right, the second hit kills like 5% later than a full Up Smash, so that's much of a problem.

 

[BltzZ]

I might want to check Fox's Up Smash from past games since it seems to have a longer end lag... Actually, that's an issue since nobody can track end lag and IASA frames unless they record the move in action and count the frames. Still, Fox's Up Smash feels like there's more end lag than in past games and Falco's sure as hell feels like there's more end lag, especially since he sets down after the move. As for Yoshi, probably the same thing.


I don't get people falling out of it much and it might be because I use it more like an anti air move and have the top part connect rather than the front. I don't know, well since there's a move study thread, we might be able to figure out more about the move. Also, was it you or @Charhazzard who advocated using reverse Up Smash so you would hit with the second hit more? If I remember right, the second hit kills like 5% later than a full Up Smash, so that's much of a problem.

That was @Charhazzard I actually used it this weekend for a kill on a marth I recorded, will upload. My favorite thing about up smash and up tilt is battlefield. Punishing landings and getting kills from under the two lower platforms Is just beautiful.

 

[Ffamran]

Down Smash can hit people away from the ledge and under it if I remember correctly and this also applies to Fox and Ike whose Ragnell reaches past the ledge. Oh, and Falco and Fox's Down Smash have their legs becoming intangible or basically disjointed during the move. I recently killed a Luigi who Luigi Missiled to the ledge. He probably would have hit me, but Falco's Down Smash just overrode Luigi Missile and killed him. It might work on Ness's PKT2, but it's risky even compared to Luigi's misfired Luigi Missile. So, something to keep in mind about Falco and Fox's Down Smash not to mention that they're great out of shield options because they're fast and strong.

 

[BltzZ]

Down Smash can hit people away from the ledge and under it if I remember correctly and this also applies to Fox and Ike whose Ragnell reaches past the ledge. Oh, and Falco and Fox's Down Smash have their legs becoming intangible or basically disjointed during the move. I recently killed a Luigi who Luigi Missiled to the ledge. He probably would have hit me, but Falco's Down Smash just overrode Luigi Missile and killed him. It might work on Ness's PKT2, but it's risky even compared to Luigi's misfired Luigi Missile. So, something to keep in mind about Falco and Fox's Down Smash not to mention that they're great out of shield options because they're fast and strong.

I was watching a @shofu video yesterday where he was using fox's up tilt to scoop pit and others recoveries before they sweet spot the ledge and followed with up air. I've never tried the down smash on the ledge. My timings always been off on for glory haha

 

[Ffamran]

I was watching a @shofu video yesterday where he was using fox's up tilt to scoop pit and others recoveries before they sweet spot the ledge and followed with up air. I've never tried the down smash on the ledge. My timings always been off on for glory haha

Ike's Utilt can scoop people up too, but considering its power, it can kill people at the ledge. Ganondorf's range with Volcano Kick, his Utilt, is awesome since you can be away from his leg thinking, "Oh, I'll wait it out until he ends the attack and grab the ledge". WRONG. You'll be engulfed in an explosion. As for Ike, his Eruption can hit through the ledge, so Ragnell can hit you under the ledge. I never got the confirmation, but I think Wario's Side Smash can hit under the ledge too.

Fox's Up Smash can catch people before they touch the ledge and maybe Yoshi can too while I never tried with Falco. Little Mac's Dtilt can hit people before they grab the ledge, Falco and Fox's Dtilt can hit people before they grab the ledge, and... yeah. You get the idea. The issue is timing and online, it's much more difficult.

 

[SDFox]

Found somthing new, a 0% I found out that if you opt for a D-throw, instead of going to a jab lock you can hit them with an f-tilt angled upped, then regrab, which allows you to go for another grab combo. All the people I did it to online couln't get out of it online, but I haven't done extended tested yet.

 

[Ffamran]

Yeah, it's April Fool's Day, but for those of you who are a bit serious today, if any of you wants to lab this - I'll be checking out this too. Gif by @FlynnCL.

Specifically, frame-trapping with Falco's Uair. Why? While Falco's Uair is slower compared to Nair and Bair with Nair having a lingering hitbox as a multi-hit aerial and Bair being a fast, but strong aerial, I believe, but I don't have the IASA frame, that can quickly transition to Bair or any other option. It might be the CPU being stupid, but then again, we all made stupid decisions before, but air-dodging against Falco's Uair could allow Falco to quickly land a clean Bair instead of relying on a multi-hit move to punish an air dodge or have the late hit mess up a kill.

Oh, and if they don't air dodge, well, Falco could combo or just kill with Uair.

 

[Mr Melo Yellow]

In regards to low %combos, I was watching a match with GimR playing Falco and he tried something pretty cool with the jab reset. He used a d-air. Not even frame cancelled and it works fine, huge landing lag and all.
I had a try of it and it's pretty handy. You can do neat stuff like d-throw, d-air, f-tilt/laser, f-tilt/laser, jump-cancelled charged u-smash. It does about 54% and has the benefit of being a meaty aerial, allowing your jab reset combos to do a lot more damage than just using lasers or f-tilts.

At low %s is there a better followup to a d-throw than this? Obviously with the assumption your opponent doesn't tech the d-throw

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yeah, it's April Fool's Day, but for those of you who are a bit serious today, if any of you wants to lab this - I'll be checking out this too. Gif by @FlynnCL.

Specifically, frame-trapping with Falco's Uair. Why? While Falco's Uair is slower compared to Nair and Bair with Nair having a lingering hitbox as a multi-hit aerial and Bair being a fast, but strong aerial, I believe, but I don't have the IASA frame, that can quickly transition to Bair or any other option. It might be the CPU being stupid, but then again, we all made stupid decisions before, but air-dodging against Falco's Uair could allow Falco to quickly land a clean Bair instead of relying on a multi-hit move to punish an air dodge or have the late hit mess up a kill.

Oh, and if they don't air dodge, well, Falco could combo or just kill with Uair.

This is totally real; U-Air -> U-Air doesn't combo at very low percents, so you're generally forced to settle for U-Air -> B-Air instead after a low-percent U-Throw. The real trouble at higher percents is the fact that Falco's horizontal mobility is garbage, so opponents can often move away from you in the time that you're U-Air-ing at higher percents, even with the airdodge.

The animation and start-up appears to be the same as in Brawl, so my guess is that the IASA is the same, as well. Hits on Frames 10-14. Animation ends on Frame 41, but the IASA is Frame 36. The airdodge animations vary a good bit in this game, and I don't know the numbers on hand, but I believe for the best airdodges, U-Air doesn't quite finish fast enough to use it as a traditional frame trap in the air. I do know that Jigglypuff's airdodge can definitely be frame trapped that way, though, as it likely has the longest animation in the game.

However, something of note: U-Air autocancels after Frame 26, so a shorthop U-Air or a fastfalled U-Air from higher up can let you frame trap landings, so I've been doing that to great effect after things like U-Throw combos and just getting opponents above me (post U-Tilt/U-Smash, things like that). B-Air has even better frame data for that (hits on Frame 4-11, autocancels on landing at/after Frame 15), but the hitbox isn't nearly as safe or imposing, so that's likely better for trapping opponents at the ledge.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I just came in here to say that Falco's jab "combo", a combo every character with a 1-2-infinite-finish jab should have, isn't considered a true combo by the game's training mode meaning the victim can interrupt it at 0% before the infinite part. Now, let's acknowledge that there is no "fresh" multiplier to jab in training mode, but I don't know how stale moves work in relation to the full jab combo. No matter how fast you input A, the game will not acknowledge Falco's jab 2 to jab 3 as a true combo until 20% against Mario. If you tried this up-close, you need to mash out the third jab otherwise Mario could hit you out of it with an aerial. As distant as you can, and Mario could just DI out of it. Falco's jab concerns me deeply with how it functions. Perhaps jab 3 just shouldn't be used in high-level play except for specific situations, and we should instead stop after jab 2 and follow up with, say, utilt or ftilt. These are just my ramblings, and I thought I'd share them to see if anyone could come up with a suitable combo out of jab 2.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

There's growth on his first two Jabs, at least. Just don't do the full combo at very low percents. Jab1 is still great for disruption at those percents.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

There's growth on his first two Jabs, at least. Just don't do the full combo at very low percents. Jab1 is still great for disruption at those percents.

Oh no, I'm not debating the utility of jab 1 and 2. It's his jab 3 I'm talking about, and whether Falco has better follow ups from jab cancelling at low percents, you know?

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Sourspot Up Air can link in to an up Smash at any percent. Deals 27% damage in total. Can be useful as a certain kill setup.

 

[Ffamran]

Question since this might be a bit difficult for me to pull off on the 3DS - Circle Pad Johns -, but could anyone check if D-throw to RAR Bair to Dash Attack is a true combo? ZeRo pulled this off on M2K's Palutena here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZZ4zrK_ssU&feature=player_detailpage#t=3.

 

[Ratquesadilla]

Question since this might be a bit difficult for me to pull off on the 3DS - Circle Pad Johns -, but could anyone check if D-throw to RAR Bair to Dash Attack is a true combo? ZeRo pulled this off on M2K's Palutena here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZZ4zrK_ssU&feature=player_detailpage#t=3.

it's not a true combo but it can still work

 

[Ffamran]

Going to move this here since it's more relevant here than in the patch thread.

I know this, it work with both hit closest to falcos body, i was just wondering cuz i have never seen it to true combo into up air , but maybe im just imagining stuff.

It might just be a character specific thing. Speaking of which, Captain Falcon has weird stuff happening to him against Falco. We have the D-throw ledge spike since Melee?, Fair to footstool, and apparently, Dtilt true combos into Uair against him.

 

[skillskillfiretruck]

I landed a downsmash, and it sent them straight upwards, and then I landed an up air and it killed them.
Sadly no video here, but It will be in my next montage.

Must be rare as hell for downsmash to send them straight up.

 

[BltzZ]

I landed a downsmash, and it sent them straight upwards, and then I landed an up air and it killed them.
Sadly no video here, but It will be in my next montage.

Must be rare as hell for downsmash to send them straight up.

Yeah it's awesome when that happens. They pretty much need to be really really close to falco for that to happen

 

[Snipnigth]

I landed a downsmash, and it sent them straight upwards, and then I landed an up air and it killed them.
Sadly no video here, but It will be in my next montage.

Must be rare as hell for downsmash to send them straight up.

did that combo? everytime i get that souerspot, they seem to be able to jump out of it before im able to combo into something.

 

[Dingding123]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NEW TECH IN THE BUILDING
OR MAYBE NOT
IDK I DON'T KEEP UP WITH THE SCENE BUT IT'S NEW TO ME

ANYWAY
After SH -> airdodging at the start of the shorthop
If you press A just before you land , you'll cancel your landing lag animation and you'll be able to do whatever you want to immediately afterwards! Must be Falco or a handful of other characters with the same amount of airtime. Not sure if you can do it with others with a delayed airdodge; haven't tried that yet.
I think what happens is that your character cancels the airdodge with an aerial and aerials have some frames of leeway where if you land within a few frames after you input them, you won't suffer their landing lag.

Anyone else mind confirming this? It shouldn't be too difficult for anyone to do consistently.

As a side note: I'm not sure if you could lag cancel airdodges before patch 1.06 but you can certainly do it now.

edit:
TL;DR:
THIS IS NOT NEW TECH

 

[BltzZ]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NEW TECH IN THE BUILDING
OR MAYBE NOT
IDK I DON'T KEEP UP WITH THE SCENE BUT IT'S NEW TO ME

ANYWAY
After SH -> airdodging at the start of the shorthop
If you press A just before you land , you'll cancel your landing lag animation and you'll be able to do whatever you want to immediately afterwards! Must be Falco or a handful of other characters with the same amount of airtime. Not sure if you can do it with others with a delayed airdodge; haven't tried that yet.
I think what happens is that your character cancels the airdodge with an aerial and aerials have some frames of leeway where if you land within a few frames after you input them, you won't suffer their landing lag.

Anyone else mind confirming this? It shouldn't be too difficult for anyone to do consistently.

As a side note: I'm not sure if you could lag cancel airdodges before patch 1.06 but you can certainly do it now.

Yeah it's been discussed Before forgot where I saw but I use it sometimes. Using up smash out of it is awesome

 

[Dingding123]

@ Captain Rage Quit 69

Everything I understand about Flaco's jab combo:

The first jab has so much stun that you can safely wait for a moment for the guy you hit to fall back down closer to you so that you can land the rest of his combo.

His second jab sucks and needs to always be immediately followed by the rest of the combo or else he can get punished lol.
I assume what we're supposed to do is hit confirm with the first jab, then finish the jab combo really quickly AKA mash A like it's a QTE lol. At least that's how I always do it.

One part near the end of the combo will miss at later percents or if you were far away to begin with but worst case scenario they'll airdodge near the end of the combo and the scenario becomes a contest between the time it takes for you to throw out another move once the silly jab combo automatically ends and the time its take the other guy to do anything after falling slowly to the ground and wait out the landing lag from airdodging. You should win that 10 out of 10 times (although you might not be able to get any damage out of it).

 

[Ffamran]

Yeah it's been discussed Before forgot where I saw but I use it sometimes. Using up smash out of it is awesome

@I Am Normal (IAN) made a video about it a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzQ8p2kBbkM. Well, he doesn't explain it, but makes a note. That said, it was known for a while like 3DS days or something. It has to do with how air-dodging has less landing lag or something I don't really know.

 

[BltzZ]

I find it easy to do the air dodge cancel by spamming the tilt or smash you want to throw out on landing during the air dodge animation.

Basically SH - Air Dodge - F tilt spam. And it works. You can do the same with the C stick.

Side Note. Now that Falco's Upsmash has been fixed I've been landing a lot of kills by at 100+ percentages by Jab Jab - dashing up smash. Or even jump canceled up smash.

Falco's Jab lifts people in the air if you're quick you can land the up smash as they hit the ground or before. Also if people airdodge into the ground which makes it a helluva lot easier to land.

 

[Snipnigth]

On Falcos jabs, on the last tournament i participated i manage to get a kill by jab 1 then down smash, first time i ever do this i dont think it comboed, i still think he could have shield it bit it was so fast he didint expect it, imma test it further today.
But yeah falcos jab1 is fast with good stun and recovery.

 

[busken]

Falco has an 18% true combo that works on all characters.
The inputs are as follows:
Grab>Down throw>Perfect Pivot>Short Hop buffered back air

You must perfect pivot and buffer you short hop into a back air. If you decide to reverse aerial rush it won't work because it takes to many frames to complete. If you don't buffer you short hop into a back air the combo no longer becomes universal as the buffered back air gains you a guaranteed hit on the whole cast.

On heavyweights like DK the combo works from about 0-70%

On midweights like ness the combo works from about 0-45%

On lightweights like jigglypuff the combo works from about 0-25%

Somebody like @ Ffamran can double check my work, as my percentage values may not be the best.

This combo is gonna take some practice to get down consistently but you guys chose to main Falco so you should be willing to innovate and get the most out of what you have.

 

[VeteranUnderdog]

The side b autocancels if you use it in the air. I like to get behind them then use a ftilit and bairs for poking.

I also noticed that dtilt is very fast and sends them very high.... possibly a better foward tilt with reduced range. Great for out of shield. Falco loves fighting in the air.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I think the dtilt is underrated.

Such a a good spacing move and it can really catch opponents off guard.

 

[Snipnigth]

It a

I think the dtilt is underrated.

Such a a good spacing move and it can really catch opponents off guard.

yup its a great move, i love when i sweet spot it it kill ppl at 120~140%, but if your looking just to space your oponent its better to use ftilt, faster recovery and longer. Ftilt and dtilt are great moves both underated.

 

[Ffamran]

I don't remember, but have we ever talked about kill confirms?

Edit: I meant hit confirms as kill confirms are more like hit with Bair and they're dead.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Don't think so, does Falco actually have any moves that link into kill moves fast enough outside of the possible:
Jab 1 > dtilt/smash attack?
or
jab 1 > jab 2 > dtilt smash attack?

Unless what I'm thinking is completely off...

 

[Ffamran]

Well, it doesn't have to be jab, it could be something like - just throwing out moves, so don't take this seriously - Dtilt to RAR Bair.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Sourspot UAir combos into U-Smash and U-tilit, which can kill at higher percents. Down throw to RAR bair can combo and kill at later percents, but is unreliable. The back of of utilit can combo into bair and U air at kill %. F-tilt to RAR bair off stage isn't atrue combo, but can work non the less.

 

[Snipnigth]

I like this topic, one of the things a think that make a character good is having a hit confirm kill combo, fox, can nair to running up smash, sheik can virtually combo almost anything into Bouncing fish, diddy has his HoHa....Falco, has one or 2, but i think they are very specific on DI, % and character, up throw to up air or bair work on about 90-110% i think and it could kill (it work like magic agains c.falcons), i once did fox combo with falco, d throw into fair close to edge and it killed, but i think it was really bad DI from my opponent. also jab into smash or dtilt, i have pulled it off, but ppl also have gotten out of it so its not 100% guaranteed, your opponent must press a button for it to work.

Other things that i think could work is hitting the sourspot from your up air, the one that has little to no knockback and then following it up with a smash, i once landed one of those up airs on a megaman that did a SH, i was abel to follow it up with a bair before he hit the ground, it looked like a combo and it killed him, also if you get that sourspot with your up throw up air combo, you can almost always follow it into a bair without wasting your second jump, its really really nice damage. Also these is no combo but its really good to know, if your opponent doges your upair after your up throw you can fram trap them with bair, 100%, you just need a little practice to read his trajectory, i learned this from Fow's Stream, TY 1FOW1!

i hope we can find some good hit confirm this could really up falco's game, something good and easy like foxes nair into running upsmash

 

[Anthonio WIlliams]

Hey guys, thought I could stop by to contribute some true combos, I'll do some editing along the way (please consider the characters weight, fast fall speed, etc.)

Dthow > Dash Attack > Up tilt (fast fallers)

Frame Cancelled Dair > Grab > Pummel 2-3x > Dthow > Options: JC Up Smash / Turn around cancel bair / Reflector

Dthrow > turn around cancel bair: racks up damage til 40-60% (maybe even higher)
Dthrow > Reflector: same thing as the one above but I'd recommend that too

Up throw > up air
*Up airs can string together or link into fair

Dtilt > Upair (I think this works at high %'s so you can KO with this)

I'll be back later, I hope this helps.
PS: I can imagine a 0-death with Falco (similar to Samus and ZSS). I'll put that to the test later.

Here are some vids you can use to improve your combo game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K--Ts5nZ2o -
Super Smash Bros. Wii U - Falco Combo Exhibition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHWz-9F7cQ
Smash 4: Falco Dair Cancel

Here's the Samus 0-death video (in case you're wondering)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkPA-dLqztc

 

[Ffamran]

@ Anthonio WIlliams , welcome to the Falco boards, all of the stuff you've mentioned were known already in the Falco boards. I suggest skimming through the 5 pages in this thread along with looking around in the other threads in the Falco boards. There's also the directory which will help too: http://smashboards.com/threads/all-aircraft-report-falco-directory.398704/.

 

[Anthonio WIlliams]

@ Anthonio WIlliams , welcome to the Falco boards, all of the stuff you've mentioned were known already in the Falco boards. I suggest skimming through the 5 pages in this thread along with looking around in the other threads in the Falco boards. There's also the directory which will help too: http://smashboards.com/threads/all-aircraft-report-falco-directory.398704/.

alright thanks

 

[Ffamran]

Footstool setups. We should really look into this since Falco's jump height would make it easy to get above someone and his Dair has the same startup as Captain Falcon and Ganondorf now.

oh..my....GAH!!!! A CF that knows the power of Nair.

Too ****ing sexy.

Also..this

Can't wait to see this stuff become standard.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

That's awesome. I'll look into this today.
I have two concerns about this. Falco's dash speed and his footstool jump height.
Hopefully they won't hold him back from this tech.

EDIT:
Some quick stuff I've learned about this tech for Falco:
His slow air mobility keeps him from taking advantage of this technique sadly.
His high footstool jump is the main problem, he can't make it back to the opponent in time.

He won't be able to catch up and footstool off the dthrow past 50% and getting there past 40% looks like it wouldn't count as a true combo either.

*However I found something else that's very cool!*
Instead of dair, fast-fall fair into the opponent after they stand up, this uses the hitbox that comes out as Falco lands. At low percent this converts into many things.
Namely the dthrow > fair "chaingrab" setup.
Also you've got your upthrow > upair >bair/fair combo.
I looked into dtilt into footstool also, that is also a true combo link, but only at super low percent the timing is very tight.