Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Deleted member]

Just because Sakurai has lowered the bar for newcomer importance in favor of moveset gimmicks doesn't mean we have to agree and modify our desires accordingly.

Now here's where I have an issue.
How exactly has the bar been lowered, when it's been pretty much at the same level it's always been? The only thing that's changed is that people are now more aware on where the bar actually lies, and it's not where they want/expect it to be.

 

[BKupa666]

Now here's where I have an issue.
How exactly has the bar been lowered, when it's been pretty much at the same level it's always been? The only thing that's changed is that people are now more aware on where the bar actually lies, and it's not where they want/expect it to be.

There's nothing tangible to point to (unless you spin things like "Shulk isn't a character who'd usually appear"), but comparing the newcomer casts of Brawl and Smash 4, the focus seems to have shifted from filling in the missing characters while still adding unique movesets to selecting new gimmicks first, then pairing them with characters. Which, of course, you have to evolve the selection from title to title to stave off staleness, but I don't think we've reached the phase yet where it can be said that "we don't have anyone big left to add so let's just double down on gameplay gameplay gameplay, who cares who's in the game anymore."

Gameplay is essentially a fancy formal outfit that each character is wearing to the fashion show that is Smash. Naturally, you want every character to have the best, most personalized outfit possible, and definitely not to force anyone into showing up in rags, but as the old saying goes, the clothes don't make the man (and can in fact be changed from show to show, like gameplay).

 

[Deleted member]

There's nothing tangible to point to (unless you spin things like "Shulk isn't a character who'd usually appear"), but comparing the newcomer casts of Brawl and Smash 4, the focus seems to have shifted from filling in the missing characters while still adding unique movesets to selecting new gimmicks first, then pairing them with characters. Which, of course, you have to evolve the selection from title to title to stave off staleness, but I don't think we've reached the phase yet where it can be said that "we don't have anyone big left to add so let's just double down on gameplay gameplay gameplay, who cares who's in the game anymore."

Gameplay is essentially a fancy formal outfit that each character is wearing to the fashion show that is Smash. Naturally, you want every character to have the best, most personalized outfit possible, and definitely not to force anyone into showing up in rags, but as the old saying goes, the clothes don't make the man (and can in fact be changed from show to show, like gameplay).

"Seems to".
Key words.

 

[Koopaul]

I definitly think popularity is important, but I also believe that adding some more obscure and unpopular picks is not a bad idea. It shakes the roster a bit and introduces people to some really interesting characters and frachises - I, for one, would hane never played Earthbound if it wasn't for Ness in smash.

This one of the big reasons I'd love to have Barbara in the game. I feel more people would be interested in her and her games if she had such a role.

 

[EmceeEspio]

And why I support Takamaru and Saki Amamiya. Other than really liking the characters and their designs and potential move sets, that is.

I think Sin and Punishment is criminally underrated and I also think that a revival of Murasame Castle could easily be Nintendo's next Kid Icarus: Uprising. That is, a game to bring back an old retro series while really fleshing out the world and characters and bringing new life into the gameplay as if it had been a major reoccurring Nintendo franchise all along.

I love the characters and I love the games, so I do the best thing I can to help them. Support them for Smash inclusion.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And why I support Takamaru and Saki Amamiya. Other than really liking the characters and their designs and potential move sets, that is.

I think Sin and Punishment is criminally underrated and I also think that a revival of Murasame Castle could easily be Nintendo's next Kid Icarus: Uprising. That is, a game to bring back an old retro series while really fleshing out the world and characters and bringing new life into the gameplay as if it had been a major reoccurring Nintendo franchise all along.

I love the characters and I love the games, so I do the best thing I can to help them. Support them for Smash inclusion.

Uprising should have been S&P3 honestly

 

[AncientTobacco]

but comparing the newcomer casts of Brawl and Smash 4, the focus seems to have shifted from filling in the missing characters while still adding unique movesets to selecting new gimmicks first, then pairing them with characters.

How so? I don't really see anything that would suggest that.

From what we've heard from Sakurai, he just goes all "What's unique about them? How do they stand out from the rest of the cast?" I think it's a bit silly to claim that he just had some kind of "list of gimmicks" that he then paired with characters. All of the newcomers have perfectly fitting movesets, none of them feel forced into a predetermined gimmick.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How so? I don't really see anything that would suggest that.

From what we've heard from Sakurai, he just goes all "What's unique about them? How do they stand out from the rest of the cast?" I think it's a bit silly to claim that he just had some kind of "list of gimmicks" that he then paired with characters. All of the newcomers have perfectly fitting movesets, none of them feel forced into a predetermined gimmick.

Brawl had better overall additions, I think that's what BKupa meant

 

[Kenith]

Worth not that in one case Sakurai actually did have a gimmick in mind that he paired with a character - in Brawl.
Ike was chosen because Sakurai was looking for a heavy-sword wielding guy.

 

[Champ Gold]

And why I support Takamaru and Saki Amamiya. Other than really liking the characters and their designs and potential move sets, that is.

I think Sin and Punishment is criminally underrated and I also think that a revival of Murasame Castle could easily be Nintendo's next Kid Icarus: Uprising. That is, a game to bring back an old retro series while really fleshing out the world and characters and bringing new life into the gameplay as if it had been a major reoccurring Nintendo franchise all along.

I love the characters and I love the games, so I do the best thing I can to help them. Support them for Smash inclusion.

Sin and Punishment fits Smash so much that it hurts.

It's pretty much a Gunner type character with close range blade attacks (not sword, blades).

It's why I support Isa for the ballot since he can represent S&P since Saki is an AT

 

[The Light Music Club]

I posted this in King K's thread also:

So since the Republican debate has to do with polls and votes, it made me think of who was equivalent to each candidate in Smash.

King K Rool is obviously Donald Trump. He's the biggest name out there and people feel really strongly about him one way or the other I feel. He's the big shot in the race and he isn't intimated by anyone. Even Sakurai is a little scared of him. He fell off a little from the mii costume, but that only increased the talk about him.

Wolf is Jeb Bush. We've seen 2 similar to him before (Fox and Falco) but people still like him and want to see what he can bring to the table. What he lacks in moveset originality he makes up for in personality. He hasn't been around for a while (Last game was Command?) But he wants to triumph once again.

Shante is Ben Carson. She has this cult following and some strong support, and she's kind of the dark horse in the poll. I feel a lot of people are counting her out. Almost all of those who know her love her, and those who don't like her, simply don't know anything about her. She doesn't get much attention either (Fox didn't ask Carson anything).

Shovel Knight is Marco Rubio. At the beginning. people really thought he had a very good shot. But slowly his name falls out of people's mouths, as he slowly wishes to regain the support he once had.

The Ice Climbers are Mike Huckabee. They've been there before, and people always remember them. But we all know they won't get in to the dance.

Pichu is Chris Christe. Old news, and he has a small following but most people seem against him.

That's just my two cents. I'm going to add more later.

Overall at this point I think that characters that will be added are:

King K Rool
Shantae
Wolf
Chibi Robo

 

[Troykv]

I posted this in King K's thread also:

So since the Republican debate has to do with polls and votes, it made me think of who was equivalent to each candidate in Smash.

King K Rool is obviously Donald Trump. He's the biggest name out there and people feel really strongly about him one way or the other I feel. He's the big shot in the race and he isn't intimated by anyone. Even Sakurai is a little scared of him. He fell off a little from the mii costume, but that only increased the talk about him.

Wolf is Jeb Bush. We've seen 2 similar to him before (Fox and Falco) but people still like him and want to see what he can bring to the table. What he lacks in moveset originality he makes up for in personality. He hasn't been around for a while (Last game was Command?) But he wants to triumph once again.

Shante is Ben Carson. She has this cult following and some strong support, and she's kind of the dark horse in the poll. I feel a lot of people are counting her out. Almost all of those who know her love her, and those who don't like her, simply don't know anything about her. She doesn't get much attention either (Fox didn't ask Carson anything).

Shovel Knight is Marco Rubio. At the beginning. people really thought he had a very good shot. But slowly his name falls out of people's mouths, as he slowly wishes to regain the support he once had.

The Ice Climbers are Mike Huckabee. They've been there before, and people always remember them. But we all know they won't get in to the dance.

Pichu is Chris Christe. Old news, and he has a small following but most people seem against him.

That's just my two cents. I'm going to add more later.

Overall at this point I think that characters that will be added are:

King K Rool
Shantae
Wolf
Chibi Robo

Curious comparation... I don't have to much hope with Shantae.

 

[BKupa666]

How so? I don't really see anything that would suggest that.

From what we've heard from Sakurai, he just goes all "What's unique about them? How do they stand out from the rest of the cast?" I think it's a bit silly to claim that he just had some kind of "list of gimmicks" that he then paired with characters. All of the newcomers have perfectly fitting movesets, none of them feel forced into a predetermined gimmick.

Maybe that wasn't the best way to put it, so I'll defer to how a friend described it a while back, which I find better: "The approach seems to have changed from 'how do we make this character unique?' to 'how do we make this unique a character?'" It feels (like the previous posts, this is strictly opinion) like there's almost like a ****-measuring contest among new newcomers for who can have the most off-the-wall twist, which excludes good characters that might not completely change the game, but whose reinventions of previous tropes could be really fun. It also negatively impacts the fanbase and drives them to attack other character fans because their character is "boring" for not living up to, quite frankly, insane standards. I don't think anyone found most of Brawl's newcomer playstyles dull or uninteresting, did they?

 

[Deleted member]

It's pretty damn clear (at least to me, I guess) that the characters came first while the gimmicks came second.

I have serious doubts that, for example, Sakurai just thought up of a fighting style that involved yoga poses, giving yourself temporary boosts in strength, and minimal healing based on health and fitness and decided "oh, the fitness instructor from Wii Fit no one's seriously expecting would be perfect for this style!".

 

[Bowserlick]

Playstyles is the answer that addresses the question of uniqueness and fighting tropes. People want different playstyles, but also want options in a certain genre. Why have one Super Heavyweight when you can have several with different takes on the category?

Ganondorf is the powerhouse.
Bowser is the heavy wrestler.
DK is the king of spikes.
King DeDeDe is the ranged fighter.
Charizard seems like the Jack-of-All trades heavyweight.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Curious comparation... I don't have to much hope with Shantae.

To be honest I really think she'll come out of nowhere. I think her chances are much better than the likes of Isacc, Dee, and maybe even Inkling.

 

[BluePikmin11]

New Early Update due to hype of the SSF2 stream!:

* Andy:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll382803xea66483f-15

* Monster Hunter:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll382805x5ba0a9ba-15

* Skull Kid:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll382807xE48A4d9B-15

* Viridi:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll382810xa1C447a3-15

Go vote!

 

[Chandeelure]

To be honest I really think she'll come out of nowhere. I think her chances are much better than the likes of Isacc, Dee, and maybe even Inkling.

Shantae is a not iconic indie third party who is not requested in Japan, she definitely doesn't have more chances than those characters, I don't even think she has chances at all.

Can you explain why do you think she is more likely than those characters, please?

 

[JaidynReiman]

To be honest I really think she'll come out of nowhere. I think her chances are much better than the likes of Isacc, Dee, and maybe even Inkling.

Isaac.


Personally, I don't. I think we'll continue to only get massively popular well-known third-party characters, and we'll be lucky to get another third-party from the ballot, let alone an Indie. Right now I'm on the Bomberman bandwagon, though, due to Nintendo getting the license for a different Hudson property and me thinking they'd be greatly interesting in going for Bomberman at this point. Out of all characters for the next third-party, I'm thinking Bomberman.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

To be honest I really think she'll come out of nowhere. I think her chances are much better than the likes of Isacc, Dee, and maybe even Inkling.

Her chances aren't really that great, and certainly not better than Isaac's, Bandana Dee's and Inkling's. Personally I think that only third-parties with realistic chance are Snake, Bomberman and Rayman, and even those have something against them (Konami for the first two, lack of iconiness and Japanese popularity for Rayman). She, however, has better chances than third-parties like Banjo, Geno, Shovel Knight and Bayonetta.

 

[Troykv]

To be honest I really think she'll come out of nowhere. I think her chances are much better than the likes of Isacc, Dee, and maybe even Inkling.

Shantae has a massive boom in her popularity and a lot of people promote her (include her own creators) that really helps her chances... but say that she has better chances than some frontrunner could sound... excesive... I'm not against the character, but... she is Third Party.

 

[Deleted member]

She, however, has better chances than third-parties like Banjo, Geno, Shovel Knight and Bayonetta.

Lol, no.

Don't understand why people keep putting Shantae on a higher pedestal than Shovel Knight when they have the same exact odds.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Lol, no.

Don't understand why people keep putting Shantae on a higher pedestal than Shovel Knight when they have the same exact odds.

The only reason I think Shantae has a little better chance than Shovel Knight because she has more games. But otherwise, yes, their chances are pretty much the same.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Shantae's also been pretty consistently on Nintendo's platforms exclusively; I'm pretty sure 3 of the 4 Shantae games have been Nintendo-exclusive (the original, Risky's Revenge and Pirate's Curse). Half-Genie Hero's the first to be multiplatform, IIRC.

 

[Deleted member]

The only reason I think Shantae has a little better chance than Shovel Knight because she has more games. But otherwise, yes, their chances are pretty much the same.

Her series may have more games, but Shovel Knight overall has more appearances due to several guest appearances and cameos in other games.
That being said, neither are more likely than the other over the number of games in their series or number of appearances they've made in general.

Shantae's also been pretty consistently on Nintendo's platforms exclusively; I'm pretty sure 3 of the 4 Shantae games have been Nintendo-exclusive (the original, Risky's Revenge and Pirate's Curse). Half-Genie Hero's the first to be multiplatform, IIRC.

Which doesn't affect her chances in comparison.
Need I remind you of the number of exclusives on Nintendo systems Castlevania has over Metal Gear? Yet was it Simon Belmont or Solid Snake that was featured in Brawl?

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Which doesn't affect her chances in comparison.
Need I remind you of the number of exclusives on Nintendo systems Castlevania has over Metal Gear? Yet was it Simon Belmont or Solid Snake that was featured in Brawl?

Snake was only because Kojima wanted him in Melee, but Sakurai couldn't add him in then and put him in Brawl. With Kojima gone, Simon is now more likely than Snake.

Shovel Knight's made cameos so has more overall appearances, yes, but saying that makes him more likely is like me saying Optimus Prime's more likely than Snake because they appeared in the same game and Optimus is more notable than Snake; it's not really logical. Not that I think that'd be a terrible idea having Optimus Prime in Smash, but it's not very likely, either.

Shantae's been around longer on Nintendo systems than Shovel Knight, most of that time being exclusive. Shovel Knight was released on the Wii U, but is not Nintendo exclusive, and also has exclusive content on BOTH PS4 AND Xbox One (Kratos and the Battletoads, respectively), but Nintendo's version got squat-all for exclusive content.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I find myself agreeing with Golden here; Shovel Knight and Shantae are both indie characters that are heavily requested but probably evenly matched in terms of likeliness.

Personally I think they have the exact same chance; a very very low chance.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I mean, in all honesty I'd rather Optimus Prime over either of them, but I'm just stating that I think Shantae's more likely of the two simply because her company hasn't shafted Nintendo in terms of exclusive content.

 

[Oasis Dealer]

Snake was only because Kojima wanted him in Melee, but Sakurai couldn't add him in then and put him in Brawl. With Kojima gone, Simon is now more likely than Snake.

You're making it sound like Kojima would be the main driving point as to why Snake would ever come back (And we see how that turned out). This is coming from the guy that would like to see Castlevania content in Smash along Metal Gear and Bomberman. If he's coming back, it's from fan support and Sakurai's decision to bring him back, not because of Kojima. With that said, I can still dream that Snake, Bomberman, and Simon Belmont would all appear in Smash 4 together. I would gladly love to hear some Castlevania remixes in Smash bros.

Regarding Shovel Knight and Shante, i'm not to sure on their chances. They're two characters I would love to see get in Smash, but considering what they're up against, it's going to be tough for one of them to convince Sakurai they are worthy to be in Smash Bros.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Lol, no.

Don't understand why people keep putting Shantae on a higher pedestal than Shovel Knight when they have the same exact odds.

I dunno, maybe 'cause Shantae's debut wasn't last year?

 

[Deleted member]

Snake was only because Kojima wanted him in Melee, but Sakurai couldn't add him in then and put him in Brawl. With Kojima gone, Simon is now more likely than Snake.

Doesn't. Mean. A. Goddamn. Thing.

If having more Nintendo exclusives really meant anything, Sakurai would have gone "Nope, sorry Kojima." But he didn't. He got Snake in anyway. Even when Nintendo wasn't as keen on the idea.

And no, Snake is still more likely than Simon solely because Snake made it into Smash. Hell, who is the one Konami is supportive of for Smash DLC even with Kojima's absence? Snake. Not Simon, Snake.
Still going to tell me Simon's more likely?

Shovel Knight's made cameos so has more overall appearances, yes, but saying that makes him more likely is like me saying Optimus Prime's more likely than Snake because they appeared in the same game and Optimus is more notable than Snake; it's not really logical. Not that I think that'd be a terrible idea having Optimus Prime in Smash, but it's not very likely, either.

a. I didn't say it made him more likely. Read what I had said again.
b. Even if I did say that, I'd be comparing two indie characters that have low odds while your example is comparing Metal Gear with ****in' Transformers. If you're going to criticize the logistics of my points, actually try to make a reasonable counterexample.

Shantae's been around longer on Nintendo systems than Shovel Knight, most of that time being exclusive. Shovel Knight was released on the Wii U, but is not Nintendo exclusive, and also has exclusive content on BOTH PS4 AND Xbox One (Kratos and the Battletoads, respectively), but Nintendo's version got squat-all for exclusive content.

Actually, there's going to be something Nintendo-exclusive that hasn't been revealed yet.

Also… we’ve heard the cries of bringing more exclusive content to Nintendo platforms. It might not be quite what you expect… but keep an eye out for another MEGATON announcement soon!

I dunno, maybe 'cause Shantae's debut wasn't last year?

You say that like it means anything.

 

[AncientTobacco]

You say that like it means anything.

Sorry, I forgot the bar for 3rd parties is really low and Sakurai just decides them by drawing lots.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Pretty sure people are putting Shantae on a higher pedestal because she's an attractive woman.

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry, I forgot the bar for 3rd parties is really low and Sakurai just decides them by drawing lots.

Sorry, I forgot that Shantae existing over a decade ago means she somehow is the best 3rd party candidate in the history of 3rd party candidates.

See, I can do crap strawman sarcasm too.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Sorry, I forgot that Shantae existing over a decade ago means she somehow is the best 3rd party candidate in the history of 3rd party candidates.

See, I can do crap strawman sarcasm too.

You've yet to give actual reasons for your "doesn't matter", "doesn't matter" statements regarding this, though.

 

[Aetheri]

Pretty sure people are putting Shantae on a higher pedestal because she's an attractive woman.

That must explain why K Rool is leading all contenders......wait wut?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That must explain why K Rool is leading all contenders......wait wut?

That's...

Going in a different direction than I was.

K.Rool and Shantae aren't in comparable positions.

I'm just saying.

Shovel Knight and Shantae should be seen as equal as far as chances are concerned. They're both very minor third parties.

I'm just saying I think Shantae being pretty is making people rate her as higher than Shovel Knight when they stand on equal ground.

You misconstrued my argument into something incredibly different. What gives man?

 

[RosaPeach]

My Top 10

King K Rool
Inkling
Daisy
Chibi Robo
Isaac
Wolf
Marshal
Lloyd Irving
Shantae
Rayman

 

[Aetheri]

That's...

Going in a different direction than I was.

K.Rool and Shantae aren't in comparable positions.

I'm just saying.

Shovel Knight and Shantae should be seen as equal as far as chances are concerned. They're both very minor third parties.

I'm just saying I think Shantae being pretty is making people rate her as higher than Shovel Knight when they stand on equal ground.

You misconstrued my argument into something incredibly different. What gives man?

That awkward moment when you make a joke and people take it seriously...:/

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That awkward moment when you make a joke and people take it seriously...:/

That awkward moment when you were going to say "then it was a bad joke" but you feel too mean saying that so you're left with awkward feelings.

Let's talk about Chibi Robo!

1. Do you think he has a chance?
2. Do you think his series is notable enough?
3. Do you think he'd be unique? How so?
4. Do you think he'd be fun?
5. What stage would he have?
6. Music tracks?
7. Think he has enough popularity for the ballot?
8. Chance for future smash games?