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Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

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BluePikmin11

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You can technically look at the positive votes and see where the results go in terms of that, Layton notably places relatively well with a higher amount of votes than most 3rd parties being voted on. Some people outside of Smashboards see him as a top candidate for a third parties.
 
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Pazzo.

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I didn't see him saying that he was a shoo-in though.
In the context of Rayman and 3rd parties, Nintenzilla is implying Layton is one of the most likely choices.

I admit to being a little hyperbolic to highlight this part of his argument.

But my point still stands. We shouldn't assume that because a character has close ties with Nintendo that they'll fill some needed 3rd party spot that Nintenzilla thinks the ballot will result in.
 

Children0fTheStars

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This needs to be pointed out: While it's true that, no, we can't assume any number of third-parties will be easily chosen, it's just as fallacious to assume that no third party besides Snake has a chance.

(And people have been highly presumptuous about Snake as well; the sole fact that he's a series veteran doesn't mean adding him back in is as simple as fans think)

You can claim they didn't want to depress people by limiting their so-called "options" with the ballot, but if the intent was to add Nintendo characters and focus on nothing else, it would've been better to firmly establish that.

They didn't.

Super Smash Bros. can be considered a celebration of gaming as a whole with primarily a focus on Nintendo, as they're obviously the makers of the IP. Well, Hal was, but whatever. The concept was supposedly possible ever since Melee, the only thing was Melee was a game they needed to get out quickly as a GameCube launch title. Leaving Brawl as the game to officially introduce third-party guests. There's nothing to be afraid of if any more third-parties are chosen for DLC, as they'll still be massively outnumbered by the rest of the roster being Nintendo characters.
 

Morbi

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This.

In fact, Konami's current strategy would fall more under licencing out characters to more projects...

So if Sakurai will have him, Konami would be more than happy to lend Snake again.
Okay, but it goes back to our previous discussion last night regarding the Ice Climbers. If Sakurai was open to that, it most likely would have already been the case. I am not saying that Snake is impossible, all of the pieces have always been there; however, our precedent insinuates that Sakurai is not advocating for Snake.
 

SmashChu

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Dude, again, they don't need to be a AAA dev anymore to dole out the license(s) and rights needed to utilize their IPs. They can put 'em on loan for crossovers and other projects. The best part? Both sides stand to profit from the royalties and the promotion of it all. It's like, a mutually beneficial net gain.

Why are people ignoring this lol

Smooth Criminal
Because if your goal is to maximize profit, why do an indie character. More people know who King K Rool and Inklings are than Shovel Knight. Most of these games have yet to be released in Japan yet.
 

Pazzo.

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This debate shouldn't be focused on Layton.

Here's the rub:

"Does the ballot ensure a third-party?"
 
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You can technically look at the positive votes and see where the results go in terms of that, Layton notably places relatively well with a higher amount of votes than most 3rd parties being voted on. Some people outside of Smashboards see him as a top candidate for a third parties.
Not necessarily. I gave multiple 5s to characters i absolutely did not vote for and i know many other people did.. Plus some people voted for people they gave 4s to some didnt . There are far too many variables to consider it relevant to the ballot. That one poll where we wee only allowed to pick one is probably much mcuh more accurate because it is almost guaranteed that is who was voted for.
. Some people outside of Smashboards see him as a top candidate for a third parties.
Many more think he isnt. Some people think waluigi is a top candidate. That doesnt make them right. (Sorry buttuni/golden)
 

Morbi

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This debate shouldn't be focused on Layton.

Here's the rub:

"Does the ballot ensure a third-party?"
I suppose that has always been my presumption; however, as other's have stated, it is not guaranteed in the slightest. Although, I will say that there is most certainly an empirical interest in third-party characters from the community and as far as I am aware, not a lot of first-party developers are campaigning for their characters either.
 

BluePikmin11

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it's just as fallacious to assume that no third party besides Snake has a chance.
Sigging this.

Not necessarily. I gave multiple 5s to characters i absolutely did not vote for and i know many other people did.. Plus some people voted for people they gave 4s to some didnt . There are far too many variables to consider it relevant to the ballot. That one poll where we wee only allowed to pick one is probably much mcuh more accurate because it is almost guaranteed that is who was voted for.
I personally don't see it as accurate only because you can vote for one character, when likely a multitude of people will have voted for more characters than one.

I gave Birdo a 5 but I'm never ever voting for her.
Same with Kamek and Riki the Legendary Heropon
Eh, that's a good point I suppose.
 
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False Sense

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I suppose that has always been my presumption; however, as other's have stated, it is not guaranteed in the slightest. Although, I will say that there is most certainly an empirical interest in third-party characters from the community and as far as I am aware, not a lot of first-party developers are campaigning for their characters either.
Well, that's understandable, as first parties have less to gain from having their character in Smash. The likes of Indie developers have the chance to have their character immortalized in one of the most popular video game crossovers of all time. Such an opportunity is unbelievably lucrative for them, so naturally they're going to do everything in their power to campaign for their character's inclusion.
 

Morbi

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Although, even if we had a poll that was truly indicative of the ballot results, it would still most likely be entirely irrelevant. There is no rule that states that Sakurai has to choose the winner, or a top contender either. Secondly, "viability" is going to be the most important aspect of a potential character, not the number of votes they receive.
 

YoshiandToad

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So what are the thoughts on this list?

Wolf
Bandana Dee
Dixie Kong
Third-party Character

Thoughts?
Wolf: I like Wolf a lot. But with Roy, Mewtwo and Lucas I'm personally satisfied with my returning veterans at this point. I'm desperate for someone new aside from Ryu. I'd still get him if he came back mind.

Bandana Dee: Heck yes. Day one purchase.

Dixie Kong: Bigger heck yes. Frankly a crime she wasn't considered for the vanilla roster with so many female characters showing up. Probably the biggest female star of Nintendo after Peach, Samus and Zelda in my eyes.

Third Party Character: Vague. Really vague and there's only like three third parties I'd even get hyped for; Rayman, Bomberman and Tails. Anyone else isn't a day one purchase and depending on who they are, may be perfectly skippable from my perspective.
 

Morbi

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Wolf: I like Wolf a lot. But with Roy, Mewtwo and Lucas I'm personally satisfied with my returning veterans at this point. I'm desperate for someone new aside from Ryu. I'd still get him if he came back mind.

Bandana Dee: Heck yes. Day one purchase.

Dixie Kong: Bigger heck yes. Frankly a crime she wasn't considered for the vanilla roster with so many female characters showing up. Probably the biggest female star of Nintendo after Peach, Samus and Zelda in my eyes.

Third Party Character: Vague. Really vague and there's only like three third parties I'd even get hyped for; Rayman, Bomberman and Tails. Anyone else isn't a day one purchase and depending on who they are, may be perfectly skippable from my perspective.
To be fair, we do not necessarily know if she was or was not considered for the vanilla roster. We do; however, know that she was considered for Brawl's vanilla roster. So, I do not find it to be a stretch of the imagination that she may have been considered for Smash 4. And, who knows, with the King K. Rool Mii costume, perhaps she is more than "considered" at this point.
 

Pazzo.

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Gald people are 'getting' the ballot.

Although, even if we had a poll that was truly indicative of the ballot results, it would still most likely be entirely irrelevant. There is no rule that states that Sakurai has to choose the winner, or a top contender either. Secondly, "viability" is going to be the most important aspect of a potential character, not the number of votes they receive.
The term 'ballot' probably wasn't the best choice on Nintendo's part.

'Super Smash Suggestion Box' would have cleared any misunderstanding.
 

Morbi

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Gald people are 'getting' the ballot.



The term 'ballot' probably wasn't the best choice on Nintendo's part.

'Super Smash Suggestion Box' would have cleared any misunderstanding.
Most competent individuals have discerned that the "ballot" is more of a suggestion box anyways. One only needs to read the description for the service. I think ballot sounds way more fun and engaging. People are more likely to vote if they feel immersed in the experience.
 

NintenZ

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In the context of Rayman and 3rd parties, Nintenzilla is implying Layton is one of the most likely choices.

I admit to being a little hyperbolic to highlight this part of his argument.

But my point still stands. We shouldn't assume that because a character has close ties with Nintendo that they'll fill some needed 3rd party spot that Nintenzilla thinks the ballot will result in.
I never said anything about Layton being "shoo-in", I was just saying that his inclusion definely seems plausible.
 

NintenZ

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I was exaggerating.

And I do agree.
It's okay, and the reason why I said I don't think Rayman would be included, was because two different trophies in two different categories (Rayman series and Other series) could cause confusion, unlike with Mewtwo and Lucas, whose trophies are in the same categories, as the original trophies.
 
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False Sense

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It's okay, and the reason why I said I don't think Rayman would be included, was because two different trophies in two different categories (Rayman series and Other series) could cause confusion, unlike with Mewtwo and Lucas, whose trophies are in the same categories, as the original trophies.
That seems like a pretty arbitrary issue to exclude a character for.

I mean, we already have two characters with the same name. I don't think "causing confusion" is a big concern.
 

Pazzo.

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It's okay, and the reason why I said I don't think Rayman would be included, was because two different trophies in two different categories (Rayman series and Other series) could cause confusion, unlike with Mewtwo and Lucas, whose trophies are in the same categories, as the original trophies.
As others have pointed out, I really don't think that'd be something to withhold Rayman from joining.

The dev. team can just rearrange the trophies.
 

LIQUID12A

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It's not just playable characters that get the trophy separation either.

The Nightmare entity from Kirby and Nightmare creature from Metroid are appropriately labelled by series in their names, so it becomes less of an excuse to say "it would cause confusion" when it's been circumvented even before Mewtwo was initially released.
 
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Bradli Wartooth

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Guys I don't even care who we get any more, as long as they make sense. I just want new characters D';
 

Bowserlick

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I think there are going to be two waves of three-four characters.

The first wave will be considered characters by development that have not been implemented or have been cut. The team will choose the past considered characters by their popularity in the beginning of the ballot. Wolf, Dixie, Mach Rider... ect.

The next wave will just be feasible popular characters that perhaps were not strongly considered by development. This is probably were third-party will show up/
 
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Delzethin

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Huh, the debate got settled before I could get here. I guess that's...not a bad thing, actually.

We'll probably see one of those 'New Content Approaching' videos like before E3 in a day or two...
I'd imagine. The fact that one hasn't been announced yet is a cause for concern, but on the other hand, the April 1st Direct was announced literally the day before.

Even if we don't see anything beyond the Mario Maker stage, I don't think it's reason to panic just yet. You guys have to remember, it takes a while fully finish a character or stage, and it's something they've gotten around before by staggering their development. For example, while they were working on Mewtwo, they were probably starting Lucas, Roy, and Ryu. They seem the type to keep their integrity and only begin work on Ballot content once the Ballot actually closes, meaning we probably won't start seeing anything from it until early next year.

So the fact that we haven't seen any more pre-Ballot content yet? The fact that there's a chance we might still be waiting after the 30th? I don't think it's a cause for concern yet, or a reason to assume they're not making much more. If we went into December without anything significant, we could get worried, but right now, we're still in that window where it's too early for Ballot content and therefore not too late for non-Ballot content.
 
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Skyblade12

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Huh, the debate got settled before I could get here. I guess that's...not a bad thing, actually.


I'd imagine. The fact that one hasn't been announced yet is a cause for concern, but on the other hand, the April 1st Direct was announced literally the day before.

Even if we don't see anything beyond the Mario Maker stage, I don't think it's reason to panic just yet. You guys have to remember, it takes a while fully finish a character or stage, and it's something they've gotten around before by staggering their development. For example, while they were working on Mewtwo, they were probably starting Lucas, Roy, and Ryu. They seem the type to keep their integrity and only begin work on Ballot content once the Ballot actually closes, meaning we probably won't start seeing anything from it until early next year.

So the fact that we haven't seen any more pre-Ballot content yet? The fact that there's a chance we might still be waiting after the 30th? I don't think it's a cause for concern yet, or a reason to assume they're not making much more. If we went into December without anything significant, we could get worried, but right now, we're still in that window where it's too early for Ballot content and therefore not too late for non-Ballot content.
I don't believe that at all. The ballot suggestions have probably almost completely stopped by now. There is no reason to not be working on characters. It's a suggestion box, there's no break in integrity for taking suggestions early, unless you ignore later suggestions because they were too late.
 

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Still, I think that the most likely third-party character is... Professor Layton.
 

Delzethin

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I don't believe that at all. The ballot suggestions have probably almost completely stopped by now. There is no reason to not be working on characters. It's a suggestion box, there's no break in integrity for taking suggestions early, unless you ignore later suggestions because they were too late.
True, there's nothing saying they couldn't have started work early...but it's also completely possible that they're waiting. Either way, no reason to be worried yet about the odds of us not getting much more DLC.
 
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FalKoopa

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I thought most people were convinced that we are getting more content alongside the Mario Maker stage.

We always got DLC in bunches so I think it's likely myself. I guess people want to avoid disappointment.

:231:
 

SmashChu

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I thought most people were convinced that we are getting more content alongside the Mario Maker stage.

We always got DLC in bunches so I think it's likely myself. I guess people want to avoid disappointment.

:231:
Probably, but its also the fact that Nintendo has said jack all about it and it comes out in two days.
 

FalKoopa

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Probably, but its also the fact that Nintendo has said jack all about it and it comes out in two days.
The Royu Direct was a supposed to be a surprise too.

I don't think they'll just silently release the stage, really. It's not how they do things.

:231:
 
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NintenZ

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You know what, yeah...

Wolf
Bandana Dee
Dixie Kong
Professor Layton
 

RobinOnDrugs

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Nintendo would have already said something about more DLC coming out aside from Mario Maker by now or at least announced a Direct by this point. We may have gotten DLC in bundles in the past, but Nintendo can also easily just release a single stage and call it a day too.

Unless they announce something tomorrow or on the day of release, I'm playing it safe and saying that all we're getting is Mario Maker.
 

Skyblade12

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True, there's nothing saying they couldn't have started work early...but it's also completely possible that they're waiting. Either way, no reason to be worried yet about the odds of us not getting much more DLC.
It's possible, but I'd consider it less likely. Remember, the dev team would have to be in a holding pattern until the ballot was completed. They can't work on other projects, because they have to be free when it's time to work on characters. This is what Sakurai meant when he said he can't hold the team together forever. They have other projects to work on. Holding the team just to wait would be foolish.

Now, they may not be working on only ballot characters, but they are working on content for Smash, and probably new characters among that. With the "all future characters will be fan service" statement, it seems probable that ballot content is in the works.
 

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I just find it incredibly odd that if this is just the Mario Maker stage + Balance changes, why is the maintenance period apparently as long as the E3 patch? From my understanding, no maintenance has been that long before, so why would it be for just one stage?
 
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