Competitive Mii Fighter: How this character should be allowed(Custom: Off)

[wizrad]

teluoborg But why is it a problem that the Mii Fighters have 81 movesets each? That's their 'thing'. Some characters have a 'thing'. Rosalina has Luma. Shulk has Monado Arts. Kirby has Copy Abilities. Doctor Mario is bad. Mega Man has his jab/forward tilt/neutral air. Luigi and Greninja have damaging taunts. Ryu has three different kinds of inputs. Cloud has Limit. Bayonetta has $5.99 combos and taunt cancels. Miis have 12 different basic special moves. That's their 'thing'.

 

[teluoborg]

Well for starters you can't switch movesets mid match so that "thing" is completely different from all your examples. And secondly the number of mii slots is limited to 99 per wii u so it is technically impossible to set up every single set for all 3 mii characters.

Next is this hypocritical implied argument that it is CRUCIAL for all Miis to be able to choose from their complete moveset in order to be usable in tournament. Let's be honest here and take the example of mii brawler : out of the 12 moves he has there are at least 6 that are too bad to be used or simply outclassed by another move in every way. If one wanted to play the character with winning in mind (remember that this is a tournament setting we're talking about, you can play all the Miis in the world in friendlies no one will blame you or call the referee) then I don't think they would want a down special that isn't the flip kick, or would pick the axe kick up B over the other two.

So yeah, aside from repeating "muh freedom" and "it's in the game", what are your actual arguments against the reduction of the number of sets to the ones that will actually work in tournaments ?

An easy to set up and comprehend is the MLG Rule Set (One Set per Mii type per Player - Default Height and Weight). It was established by Chibo a ROB/Mii Gunner main and TO for his region. First, used in MLG Major. It has been used in the last (?) KTar and now this week Shot Fired 2. Majority of players (mii users and non mii users) are or should be satisfied with this rule set.

-Mii players need to register their set when signing up for the tournament,
-They get to create their miis before the match (if it isn't there initially) just like creating your nametag or configure your controls.
-Showcase their set to the opponent if ask
-However, they are not allow to change their set (they are stuck with that set for rest of the tournament).
-They are using Default Size so anyone can practice against them.
-If someone new joins the scene, he/she doesn't have to forced themselves to use a "Golden Set" but rather use what works for his or her playstyle.
-Best of all, the TO doesn't have to premade the set like Customs. Everything is right there - right out of the box. No grinds for special, no paying 5.99 for top tier characters, no playing the game or event mode to unlock them. They are the fastest characters to unlock in the game.

So what is the problem?

Well I don't know, ask the mii players why they aren't satisfied. Spoilers it's probably because they want complete freedom. Also what's the grudge against DLC for ? What does it have to do with anything ?

 

[Yikarur]

It's completely arbitrary and a not needed out of game rule to limit them to 1 set.
It doesn't make sense. Stop being stubborn Telu. Everyone has already made enough arguments for it and the FreeMii arguments are objectively verifiable.
The reason Mii's want freedom is because it's objectively wrong to restrict then.

 

[teluoborg]

While Mii legality is pretty much a subject everyone agrees upon, every detail and rule about it are completely arbitrary.
You can go around saying you chose the right ruleset or pretend it's the way the game is meant to be played but in the end the only hint we get from the game itself is that competition should be played in 2 stocks, 5 minutes, omega only, customs and Miis banned.

But whatever feel free to disregard everything I say, since you have told me that I am objectively wrong instead of answering my arguments then it means the discussion is retroactively closed and whatever I'll say will make no sense.

 

[Yikarur]

Isn't it like that for pages already? Whatever argument is stated, the same contraargument is going to be said. Then the other side will tell why that is not a good argument etc. etc. etc.

Every argument that tries to restrict Mii's are philosophical nature, while Mii mains argue with the more objective nature of the game.
Objective: We decide the settings and everything within that settings should be allowed. This is not arbitrary.
Subjective: Out of game rules that try to restrict available options even though nothing in the game tells you that this restriction should be done in that exact way. This is arbitrary.

 

[wizrad]

Actually, the game says we play with Miis being allowed any of their moves, and that's about all that is contested. What you described was For Glory. I don't know if you know this, but we don't play in For Glory mode, we play in Smash mode.

 

[Ajimi]

I don't see the issue there.
One of the specials is buffed/nerfed because of a patch ? Change the sets.
We somehow find out that Mii Brawler is definitely broken and have to ban one of his moves ? Change the sets.
The meta shifts too far away from the existing sets and some options become clearly better ? Change the sets.

Everything would be possible IF there was an initiative from the Mii players to publish something easy to set up and comprehend. But no all that has been done is repeat ad infinitum that the movesets can be used with customs off (there's even a GIMR video published repeating the exact same 3 arguments).
God fortbid the poor Mii players couldn't choose from their 81 different sets. Each.

Also : we're playing a game where the decision on the number of stocks (one of the most influential factors in the meta) hasn't been settled, the very existence of the FriiMii movement is to promote change and you guys worry that if you decide on a moveset it will NEVER EVER change ? Get real.

Aside for the fact that you completely ignored 3/4 of my post (and the most important points), you're still getting things wrong.
If you do not consider "special number 1" to be the default, then there is no default, thus any fixed set is arbitrary and unjustified.
"something easy to set up and comprehend" would be either going by the game or the MLG rules, not this organizational crap.
"81 different sets" is irrelevant since a) there are already 50+ characters in this game, and two different Miis have more in common than Mario and Doc, and b) this is a f*cking competition with money involved, someone else will learn if you are too lazy to do so.
And you only answered to the possibility to change the sets in the future, when this is clearly not the main issue (the fact that <1% of the players will decide something that will be copy-pasted all around the globe for everyone is a much bigger problem, for example).

Well for starters you can't switch movesets mid match so that "thing" is completely different from all your examples. And secondly the number of mii slots is limited to 99 per wii u so it is technically impossible to set up every single set for all 3 mii characters.

Rosaluma is the only duo character in the game, so that "thing" is completely different from all the others. Shulk is the only one who can alter his stats, so that "thing" is completely different from all the others. In Melee Zelda is the only one who can switch to a whole other character, so that "thing" is completely different from all the others. Etc.
See, it's easy going that way. Every "thing" is completely different from all the others, that was precisely wizrad's point. If it wasn't unique, it wouldn't be a "thing" in the first place. The question you keep avoiding is if/how/why that "thing" is actually problematic.

And you do not create every possible gamertag in advance either, you let each player create their own when they need it, and in the extreme and unrealistic case where you hit the limit, you can still delete some to make room. Quick and simple in both cases.

Next is this hypocritical implied argument that it is CRUCIAL for all Miis to be able to choose from their complete moveset in order to be usable in tournament. Let's be honest here and take the example of mii brawler : out of the 12 moves he has there are at least 6 that are too bad to be used or simply outclassed by another move in every way. If one wanted to play the character with winning in mind (remember that this is a tournament setting we're talking about, you can play all the Miis in the world in friendlies no one will blame you or call the referee) then I don't think they would want a down special that isn't the flip kick, or would pick the axe kick up B over the other two.

What is CRUCIAL for an out-of-game rule in a COMPETITIVE environment is to have a specific NEED to fulfill. If there is no NEED, there should be NO rule. It is those who want to add a restriction who have the burden of proof, not the opposite. Mii players precisely do not ask for anything, they would be happy to be left alone. Not only you (nor anybody else) still haven't explained why the free choice of moveset is ACTUALLY uncompetitive, but so far all the tournaments that used that rule (MLG, KTar, Shot Fired 2 etc) went fine. But feel free to ignore that paragraph once again.

The fact that "6 out of 12 moves are useless" is your personal arbitrary opinion, and is utterly irrelevant. It should not be a base for any rule, and certainly not such a large-scale one. Plus, locals, nationals and majors alike are most of the time won by the same handful of players, I doubt a lot of people come with "I'm gonna win" in mind but rather come for the hype, meeting people, simply playing the game etc. This is irrelevant anyway.

Well I don't know, ask the mii players why they aren't satisfied. Spoilers it's probably because they want complete freedom. Also what's the grudge against DLC for ? What does it have to do with anything ?

Dude, seriously ? Are you even trying ? You didn't read the whole 1/4 of my post where I talked about this. How are the MLG rules "complete freedom" compared to how the Miis work in-game with 0 additional limitation ? Mii players are ready to compromise and would be happy with the MLG rules, they want only one thing really, when all you give them is "your character is not banned, you should be happy lol" (and you know this is not an exaggeration if you followed the "debates" in the french FB group).

 

[Unknownkid]

Well I don't know, ask the Mii players why they aren't satisfied. Spoilers it's probably because they want complete freedom. Also what's the grudge against DLC for ? What does it have to do with anything ?

Teluoborg... I don't know how long you been in the Smash 4 community for Miis but let me tell you something - I have been part of the Mii community since the 3DS era. I have been active in the Swordfighter Boards, join the Mii Skype Group and now the Discord Group. I have seen and experience what Miis are capable of. So there is no spoiler that the community would prefer complete freedom but we've already discussion that is not possible (not with this obviously blind, subjective driven Smash Community). We know we are going to have to compromise.

• Dapuffster was the first person to be against optimal size. He stated we should use standard size.
• Yikarur has constantly address how Miis should be treated and made a thread or two about it during the Custom era. He is the major contributor to the Mii push in Europe.
• Chibo made a rule set that allows all free moves but restrict our size and set change. No one is the Mii community complain about this rule set, only the Non Mii Players (MLG Twitter Rage). In fact, we praised this rule set. We figure that Custom Size should be a Custom Mode Thing.
• San mainly use Tiny Gunner and voice his reason why we should have total freedom and rebuttling any reason otherwise but mention compromise will be the most likely outcome.
• T0mmii, who is rather aggressive and radical toward Mii Freedom, will be fine with Standard Size and Free Move but never stop fighting against illogical rule sets.

Of course, we can't please everyone but there is at least 8/10 Mii players (if there is that many) who will be satisfied with Free Moves but Guest Size. We also have data that shows the outcome with these rule set. Europe has applied these rule set (except for your area I guess). DanGR has a tournament running the rule set. Ktar, MLG and Shot Fired has been running these rule set.

Hmm... The DLC thing is a joke/meme in the US scene. I believe it is well known that the DLC characters are quite powerful especially the 5.99 ones. If you reread the sentence, I was listing ways to unlock a character or stage in Smash 4. Pay for DLC is one of those methods as well as playing Single Player Mode, Event Mode, or completed a certain amount of matches.

So once again, what is the problem? And please give me an objective one.

 

[DanGR]

Unknownkid Just to clarify, it's not my tournament series. I'm not the head TO, though I am part of the HASL team in a similar way VGBC players are tied to Xanadu, and I'm directly involved with ruleset formation considerations and revisions (including Mii legality). Not only has our growing tournament series been allowing full customization of Miis since Smash4 began, including height/weight changes, so far we have 4/5 of our state's largest tournament TOs on board for using some variation of FriMii rules.