Credit goes to @
Shaya
for allowing me to do this!
These encouraging facts inspired me to make this thread. With balancing patches having become reality I think we should return the favor to Nintendo by actively adding constructive input to their work and come up with community patch suggestions of our own.
* This is not a whishlist where everybody can just dunk random ideas.
* The moderation of this thread will be extremely strict.
* Any suggestion you make must have a good explanation on why it improves the game's competitive quality.
* Posting a suggestion with no explanation to it will be reported as spam and infracted as such.
* Keep the input as constructive and concrete as possible.
* Even if your suggestion follows the above rules, it is not guaranteed that it will end up in the suggestion.
* However, at the very least it will be taken into consideration and will be discussed seriously in this thread.
* We deeply respect Nintendo's work - Smash 4 is a piece of work close to perfection. Therefore we will only make as many suggestions as necessary.
Let my illustrate the suggestion process through some examples:
How to not do it: Mariomain123 posts "Nerf Diddy Kong plz!"
Mariomain123 would receive an infraction for this post as it is considered spam. There is no constructive input to it and no explanation how or why Diddy Kong should be nerfed. Furthermore it doesn't explain where the perceived problem with the character lies.
How to do it: Marionaim123 posts "Diddy Kong's uair needs to be nerfed because it's fundamentally unbalanced. The risk/reward ratio of that move is extremely one-sided: it has only 3 frames of start-up lag, kills extremely early, racks up damage insanely fast at low percent, has an oversized hitbox above it and in front of it and there's next to no risk in using it in any situation. Therefore I suggest a healthy nerf of Diddy Kong's uair that consists of an increase in start-up lag by 2 or 3 frames to make dthrow -> uair kills harder to perform without removing the move's combo abilities at low percent. If you increase the recovery of the move by a similar amount of frames it also loses it's ability to frame trap airdodges into a guaranteed fair, bair or uair which makes the move tolerable. It's also worth discussing whether the hitbox in front of it should be downsized a bit although it seems that adjusting its frame data could be enough to balance the move adequately."
Marioman123's suggestion would be taken into consideration and discussed among the community. If thorough debate or - even better - empirical evidence from tournament play end up supporting the suggestion it will be included in the "official" commuity patch suggestion.
If everybody sticks to this way of making their input there will be no problems. People who fail to follow it will be infracted. If things get out of hand then the thread will be locked. This is a once in a lifetime chance though so let's not allow it to get that far!
*Remove the ability to tech spikes when grounded
*Fix the c-sticks mechanics to make it work like it did in previous smash games
*Add a mechanic akin to DI or VI for survival purposes
Diddy Kong:
*Adjustments to up air
Donkey Kong:
*Remove the landing pose on upB [DK flexes his muscles]
Ganondorf changes:
*http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-project-ganondorf.380759/
Ike changes:
*Give dtilt a slightly more horizontal trajectory
*Change jab2's damage from 3%->4%
*Align hitboxes correctly for fair and jab3
*Add a sourspot hitbox to dair, possibly lower damage by 1%
*Increase uair damage from 11->13% and reduce base knockback
Luigi changes:
*Decrease the amount of inputs needed to gain height while using downB
Samus changes:
*Jab combo doesn't work reliably
Zelda:
*Aerial Din's fire should not send her into freefall state[/collapse]
[collapse="Accepted Suggestions:"]
Global:
*If a match ends through a suicide move - Flying Slam, Flame Choke, Chomp, Inhale and others - the endgame result should be consistent and not random
*KOs off the top always result in star or screen KOs as long as it isn't the last stock or there's more than 15-30 seconds on the timer
Charizard:
*Increase the hitstun of jab 1 to make sure it always links into jab 2
*Fix the hitboxes of upsmash and up B custom #2 to make sure that the hits link properly
Donkey Kong:
*Using Giant Punch against a shield next to the edge causes DK to die. Add the ability to grab the ledge to prevent this from happening
*Sourspot sideB and ftilt at low % are unsafe on hit. Increase base knockback to make sure DK doesn't get punished for landing a hit
*Fsmash whiffs against very close opponents. Either fix the hitbox or the animation of the move so they match
*DKs jab combo doesn't work until ~25% unless you hit the opponent with the hip.Needs more base knockback to fix this and less knockback growth to link reliably at higher percent
*DK's punch charging is bugged. It adds stacks to the charge at the beginning of the next swing instead of at the end of the swing
Jigglypuff:
*Fix rollout so Jigglypuff doesn't enter that weird tumble state after successfully connecting the move [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UXCfDshKIc]
Kirby:
*Opponents that get their abilities copied by Kirby should be put into hitstun. Some characters get guarantee hits on Kirby for getting swallowed
Meta Knight:
*Fix the animations of Meta Knight's sword attacks so they match their actual hitbox size
Peach:
*Adjust Dash Attack to make sure all hits connect reliably
Wii Fit Trainer:
*Grab whiffs against small character. Increase the grab hitbox or position it lower to prevent this from happening
Zelda:
*Fix the hitstun of fsmash and usmash to make sure all hits connect reliably[/collapse]
The Smash 4 Community Patch Project
Greetings, fellow Smash 4 enthusiasts and fanatics! As most of you have realized by now, since the announcement of Smash 4 a number of changes have been brought about to the Smash Bros franchise by Nintendo. For us competitive players the most dramatic change is the new way Nintendo interacts with the community. During the era of Melee and Brawl a lot of people had the impression that Nintendo was being ignorant or even unconstructive towards the smash community. With the announcement of Smash 4 - possibly influenced by Project: M - we have come to see a new, much more supportive attitude. Nintendo hosting launch events for Smash 4 all across the globe, supporting the competitive community and creating balance patches for the game shows a desire to include competitive players in a way we hadn't had the pleasure to experience yet.
These encouraging facts inspired me to make this thread. With balancing patches having become reality I think we should return the favor to Nintendo by actively adding constructive input to their work and come up with community patch suggestions of our own.
***
This is a community project. That means that everybody is free to make their input. However, not all suggestions will be accepted - on the contrary! There's a whole lot of rules to keep in mind if you really want your suggestion to be appreciated or even acknowledged:
* This is not a whishlist where everybody can just dunk random ideas.
* The moderation of this thread will be extremely strict.
* Any suggestion you make must have a good explanation on why it improves the game's competitive quality.
* Posting a suggestion with no explanation to it will be reported as spam and infracted as such.
* Keep the input as constructive and concrete as possible.
* Even if your suggestion follows the above rules, it is not guaranteed that it will end up in the suggestion.
* However, at the very least it will be taken into consideration and will be discussed seriously in this thread.
* We deeply respect Nintendo's work - Smash 4 is a piece of work close to perfection. Therefore we will only make as many suggestions as necessary.
Let my illustrate the suggestion process through some examples:
How to not do it: Mariomain123 posts "Nerf Diddy Kong plz!"
Mariomain123 would receive an infraction for this post as it is considered spam. There is no constructive input to it and no explanation how or why Diddy Kong should be nerfed. Furthermore it doesn't explain where the perceived problem with the character lies.
How to do it: Marionaim123 posts "Diddy Kong's uair needs to be nerfed because it's fundamentally unbalanced. The risk/reward ratio of that move is extremely one-sided: it has only 3 frames of start-up lag, kills extremely early, racks up damage insanely fast at low percent, has an oversized hitbox above it and in front of it and there's next to no risk in using it in any situation. Therefore I suggest a healthy nerf of Diddy Kong's uair that consists of an increase in start-up lag by 2 or 3 frames to make dthrow -> uair kills harder to perform without removing the move's combo abilities at low percent. If you increase the recovery of the move by a similar amount of frames it also loses it's ability to frame trap airdodges into a guaranteed fair, bair or uair which makes the move tolerable. It's also worth discussing whether the hitbox in front of it should be downsized a bit although it seems that adjusting its frame data could be enough to balance the move adequately."
Marioman123's suggestion would be taken into consideration and discussed among the community. If thorough debate or - even better - empirical evidence from tournament play end up supporting the suggestion it will be included in the "official" commuity patch suggestion.
If everybody sticks to this way of making their input there will be no problems. People who fail to follow it will be infracted. If things get out of hand then the thread will be locked. This is a once in a lifetime chance though so let's not allow it to get that far!
***
[collapse="Up to discussion:"]Global:
*Remove the ability to tech spikes when grounded
*Fix the c-sticks mechanics to make it work like it did in previous smash games
*Add a mechanic akin to DI or VI for survival purposes
Diddy Kong:
*Adjustments to up air
Donkey Kong:
*Remove the landing pose on upB [DK flexes his muscles]
Ganondorf changes:
*http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-project-ganondorf.380759/
Ike changes:
*Give dtilt a slightly more horizontal trajectory
*Change jab2's damage from 3%->4%
*Align hitboxes correctly for fair and jab3
*Add a sourspot hitbox to dair, possibly lower damage by 1%
*Increase uair damage from 11->13% and reduce base knockback
Luigi changes:
*Decrease the amount of inputs needed to gain height while using downB
Samus changes:
*Jab combo doesn't work reliably
Zelda:
*Aerial Din's fire should not send her into freefall state[/collapse]
[collapse="Accepted Suggestions:"]
Global:
*If a match ends through a suicide move - Flying Slam, Flame Choke, Chomp, Inhale and others - the endgame result should be consistent and not random
*KOs off the top always result in star or screen KOs as long as it isn't the last stock or there's more than 15-30 seconds on the timer
Charizard:
*Increase the hitstun of jab 1 to make sure it always links into jab 2
*Fix the hitboxes of upsmash and up B custom #2 to make sure that the hits link properly
Donkey Kong:
*Using Giant Punch against a shield next to the edge causes DK to die. Add the ability to grab the ledge to prevent this from happening
*Sourspot sideB and ftilt at low % are unsafe on hit. Increase base knockback to make sure DK doesn't get punished for landing a hit
*Fsmash whiffs against very close opponents. Either fix the hitbox or the animation of the move so they match
*DKs jab combo doesn't work until ~25% unless you hit the opponent with the hip.Needs more base knockback to fix this and less knockback growth to link reliably at higher percent
*DK's punch charging is bugged. It adds stacks to the charge at the beginning of the next swing instead of at the end of the swing
Jigglypuff:
*Fix rollout so Jigglypuff doesn't enter that weird tumble state after successfully connecting the move [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UXCfDshKIc]
Kirby:
*Opponents that get their abilities copied by Kirby should be put into hitstun. Some characters get guarantee hits on Kirby for getting swallowed
Meta Knight:
*Fix the animations of Meta Knight's sword attacks so they match their actual hitbox size
Peach:
*Adjust Dash Attack to make sure all hits connect reliably
Wii Fit Trainer:
*Grab whiffs against small character. Increase the grab hitbox or position it lower to prevent this from happening
Zelda:
*Fix the hitstun of fsmash and usmash to make sure all hits connect reliably[/collapse]
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