Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

[trojanpooh]

Who needs snark when you have swag

I just want to hear how the process differs between putting a PSA on an existing character and putting one on one of these blank slots.

From what I understand (which is basically zilch) the process is essentially 100% the same as PSA creation except there's a good amount of overhead to make the character slot actually exist.

My biggestwonder is how many available articles we aren't looking at. How many SSE enemies have completely unique projectiles or moves that we aren't even thinking about?

I believe (and again, I don't fully understand these shenanigans) a "max" number of articles isn't the problem so much as each character slot has a limit. For example, Mewtwo was made by adding a 2nd Lucario and editing him. Had they picked DK as the base he wouldn't work because DK doesn't have any articles and lacks a command grab (for confusions flippy thing). By that same line, if they wanted someone to crawl (or wall jump?) they'd need to use someone who could already do that as the base. To find the max number of articles they have access to I suppose you could count the articles on the character with the most and multiply that number by 7, but it hardly seems important when it's a character to character basis type thing.


I think.

 

[Friesnchip]

I have another question for the PM:BR staff.

Is it possible to import animations from other Wii games?

Animations need to be made within BrawlBox for specific compatibility with Brawl. You would not be able to extract animation data and have it work within the software.

 

[StarshipGroove]

A question for the PMBR, wouldn't it be possible to replace Debug Mario thus freeing a eighth character spot?

 

[Protom]

Why stop at primid? Why not,
Tabuu!!!

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Why stop at primid? Why not,
Tabuu!!!

I'd much prefer Tabuu over Primid..

 

[HyperrCrow]

I'd much prefer Tabuu over Primid..

Why stop at primid? Why not,
Tabuu!!!

Stay on topic guys, we have a new thread for this. This is now specifically about the Clone Engine itself.

 

[lancereed]

yea clone engine is epic epicially about mewtwo!!!

 

[Chzrm3]

I believe (and again, I don't fully understand these shenanigans) a "max" number of articles isn't the problem so much as each character slot has a limit. For example, Mewtwo was made by adding a 2nd Lucario and editing him. Had they picked DK as the base he wouldn't work because DK doesn't have any articles and lacks a command grab (for confusions flippy thing). By that same line, if they wanted someone to crawl (or wall jump?) they'd need to use someone who could already do that as the base. To find the max number of articles they have access to I suppose you could count the articles on the character with the most and multiply that number by 7, but it hardly seems important when it's a character to character basis type thing.


I think.

Oh wow, so even things like "can crawl" and "can walljump" aren't flexible, and that needs to be inherited from a clone?

Dang, that makes it pretty tough to get exactly what you want from a character.

 

[Kally Wally]

I don't know about crawling, but I know that there is a code out there that give everyone the ability to wall jump - Brawl Minus uses it. I'd be very surprised if that ability couldn't be added on a per-character basis.

 

[F. Blue]

I seem to recall a suggestion to give Samus a morph ball crawl animation, and someone on PMBR claiming it impossible to add crawls. So yeah.

 

[GuruKid]

I believe (and again, I don't fully understand these shenanigans) a "max" number of articles isn't the problem so much as each character slot has a limit. For example, Mewtwo was made by adding a 2nd Lucario and editing him. Had they picked DK as the base he wouldn't work because DK doesn't have any articles and lacks a command grab (for confusions flippy thing). By that same line, if they wanted someone to crawl (or wall jump?) they'd need to use someone who could already do that as the base. To find the max number of articles they have access to I suppose you could count the articles on the character with the most and multiply that number by 7, but it hardly seems important when it's a character to character basis type thing.

I think.

This is correct for the most part but to elaborate on the article requirement - a much bigger concern is the flexibility offered by these articles due to their special properties. DK for example actually has 3 available articles: Bongos (Final Smash), Sound Wave (Final Smash), and Barrel (Entry Animation) but the limited actions within the article instances themselves as well as the lack of notable floats (unique attributes for each special move) would make them poor choices compared to the articles that characters like Snake, Samus, or Mario possess It's definitely a "Quality over Quantity" kind of deal since we are still fairly limited in how we can edit these articles.

There is actually some considerable leeway when it comes to general actions but the more complex actions like command grabs (because of the complexity with catch collisions), tethers (they all involve specific articles), crawls and glides (these are directed primarily through floats IIRC) also weigh heavily in our selection of a clone candidate.

And unfortunately using any sort of projectile or move from an SSE character is also out of the question. Very sad face... some of those enemies had some great-looking moves!

 

[Fortress]

This is correct for the most part but to elaborate on the article requirement - a much bigger concern is the flexibility offered by these articles due to their special properties. DK for example actually has 3 available articles: Bongos (Final Smash), Sound Wave (Final Smash), and Barrel (Entry Animation) but the limited actions within the article instances themselves as well as the lack of notable floats (unique attributes for each special move) would make them poor choices compared to the articles that characters like Snake, Samus, or Mario possess It's definitely a "Quality over Quantity" kind of deal since we are still fairly limited in how we can edit these articles.

There is actually some considerable leeway when it comes to general actions but the more complex actions like command grabs (because of the complexity with catch collisions), tethers (they all involve specific articles), crawls and glides (these are directed primarily through floats IIRC) also weigh heavily in our selection of a clone candidate.

And unfortunately using any sort of projectile or move from an SSE character is also out of the question. Very sad face... some of those enemies had some great-looking moves!

No more Project Primid.... This is a sad day for the world, indeed.

 

[Chzrm3]

Oh wow, that's really interesting. So you could technically program something making use of DK's entrance barrel if you wanted to, but it'd be really hard to actually make that a meaningful move because it doesn't come with things like a damage value, a knockback value, physical properties for how it flies around, etc etc?

 

[GunBlaze]

I just want this to happen.

 

[GuruKid]

Oh wow, that's really interesting. So you could technically program something making use of DK's entrance barrel if you wanted to, but it'd be really hard to actually make that a meaningful move because it doesn't come with things like a damage value, a knockback value, physical properties for how it flies around, etc etc?

Basically, yeah. I suppose it's worth noting that through hard ASM coding some articles maaaay be edited further (this is how we gave Toon Link's bombs multi-hit and Diddy's banana downthrow force tripping for examples) but that route is often difficult, tedious and time-consuming.

Despite these seemingly overbearing restrictions though you'd be surprised what is possible with the methods we use. Just gotta get creative.

 

[Mithost]

Basically, yeah. I suppose it's worth noting that through hard ASM coding some articles maaaay be edited further (this is how we gave Toon Link's bombs multi-hit and Diddy's banana downthrow force tripping for examples) but that route is often difficult, tedious and time-consuming.

Despite these seemingly overbearing restrictions though you'd be surprised what is possible with the methods we use. Just gotta get creative.

Highlighting the important bits

 

[Fortress]

Basically, yeah. I suppose it's worth noting that through hard ASM coding some articles maaaay be edited further (this is how we gave Toon Link's bombs multi-hit and Diddy's banana downthrow force tripping for examples) but that route is often difficult, tedious and time-consuming.

Despite these seemingly overbearing restrictions though you'd be surprised what is possible with the methods we use. Just gotta get creative.

I feel like you guys just have ten or twelve people in lab coats in some underground bunker playing P:M all day and rigorously coding between games. The lighting's probably really bright or something, and it's in the middle of an empty field in Nevada (isn't it). It's like you have some kind of smash scientists working around the clock on this or something.

 

[MVP]

Basically, yeah. I suppose it's worth noting that through hard ASM coding some articles maaaay be edited further (this is how we gave Toon Link's bombs multi-hit and Diddy's banana downthrow force tripping for examples) but that route is often difficult, tedious and time-consuming.

Despite these seemingly overbearing restrictions though you'd be surprised what is possible with the methods we use. Just gotta get creative.

you guys made mewtwo after all. I remember a LOT of people were hating saying they he couldn't be made. no faith in the PMBR.....

 

[Fortress]

you guys made mewtwo after all. I remember a LOT of people were hating saying they he couldn't be made. no faith in the PMBR.....

All I'm hearing is "Primid confirmed for 3.0".

All aboard the hype train: destination, groovytown, population: Primid.

 

[SmashShadow]

I would still love to see this happen however unlikely it is.

Spoiler

 

[Fortress]

Your image is broken, brah.

 

[Xinc]

A question for the PMBR, wouldn't it be possible to replace Debug Mario thus freeing a eighth character spot?

Debug Mario?

 

[red9rd]

I would still love to see this happen however unlikely it is.

Spoiler

I don't SEE that happening at all.

 

[Player -0]

Can anyone say anything about the Giga Bowser and Super Wario characters and how they can be replaced?
We never got a true answer.

 

[red9rd]

Can anyone say anything about the Giga Bowser and Super Wario characters and how they can be replaced?
We never got a true answer.

I doubt they would do that. From what I have read so far they want to make the mod fun for all players not only competitive.

 

[Player -0]

I doubt they would do that. From what I have read so far they want to make the mod fun for all players not only competitive.

They could change the final smash into something different ._.
I'm sure casuals would enjoy another character more too rather than being able to use a super powerful one for like, 30 seconds.
Edit: Also why wouldn't they be able to use SSE moves? maybe I just didn't get it but can you re-explain?

 

[Mithost]

I doubt they would do that. From what I have read so far they want to make the mod fun for all players not only competitive.

They meant that it should be possible to replace Giga Bowser and Warioman with separate characters. However, this is not how things work. You cannot put a brand new character on this slot, as it is just a separate "Mode" for a character. Every kill you get with Giga Bowser's replacement will be accounted to bowser's score, and he will be the one to show up in the winners section.

 

[Player -0]

They meant that it should be possible to replace Giga Bowser and Warioman with separate characters. However, this is not how things work. You cannot put a brand new character on this slot, as it is just a separate "Mode" for a character. Every kill you get with Giga Bowser's replacement will be accounted to bowser's score, and he will be the one to show up in the winners section.

So would it be able to copy Zelda so to speak or her transform and make it so any character could get another form?

 

[red9rd]

he's an extremely generic pawn, punches, kicks, and an occasional weapon. He also has no back story whatsoever and there is nothing unique or special about him, he also never did anything ground breaking. There is also the fact that he has not impacted the Nintendo universe in anyway, he's just thought of a standard brawl enemy. He's just unimportant, there would be no point in adding him over a character who is actually deserving the spot in the roster.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Primid
This Link should solve all the problems your having.

 

[Mithost]

So would it be able to copy Zelda so to speak or her transform and make it so any character could get another form?

No. All Zelda's Down B does is look for Sheik's data in the code and load it. I believe it might be possible to make zelda transform into another character on the roster, Cloning Zelda does not give you another free slot to work with.

 

[Paradoxium]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Primid
This Link should solve all the problems your having.

that link has done nothing but confirm my previous statement, he is not special or unique in anyway, he's your common enemy. Its like adding a goomba as a character. and do you really think primid fits into the "Nintendo all-star" category?

and do you think that he is more deserving of a spot than someone like Isaac or Ridley? Im not saying add these characters but they are actually deserving of a spot in the game

 

[red9rd]

that link has done nothing but confirm my previous statement, he is not special or unique in anyway, he's your common enemy. Its like adding a goomba as a character. and do you really think primid fits into the "Nintendo all-star" category?

and do you think that he is more deserving of a spot than someone like Isaac or Ridley? Im not saying add these characters but they are actually deserving of a spot in the game

Yes, Yes I do.

 

[Paradoxium]

Yes, Yes I do.

So a worthless pawn in a ****ty adventure mode that appeared in one portion of the game is a Nintendo all-star, and the main character of one of the best rpg's to date, and the main villain of one of nintendos staple franchises aren't?

I don't understand

and please explain to me what primid has done to earn a spot

 

[SmashShadow]

I don't SEE that happening at all.

Your image is broken, brah.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Knuckle Joe could be a fun one, actually.

I don't think Kirby needs more characters though, and I'd prefer Bandana Dee anyway...

 

[Mithost]

So a worthless pawn in a ****ty adventure mode that appeared in one portion of the game is a Nintendo all-star, and the main character of one of the best rpg's to date, and the main villain of one of nintendos staple franchises aren't?

I don't understand

and please explain to me what primid has done to earn a spot

Image

We have another thread for this. Don't post character speculation and discussion here.

 

[Anti Guy]

One thing I'm curious about is how does Mewtwo's tail work? None of the other characters use a tail for their attack (aside from Charizard, I believe). Are you able to add new limbs and give them animations?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Let`s play a game: The first person to correctly guess how many lines of code the clone engine takes gets a cookie. Sense I don`t have the answer to this question, EVERYONE GETS A COOKIE!

 

[Friesnchip]

Let`s play a game: The first person to correctly guess how many lines of code the clone engine takes gets a cookie. Sense I don`t have the answer to this question, EVERYONE GETS A COOKIE!

I doubt it would be that simple to calculate; the engine makes use of previously unused data and edits preexisting usable code to function. On top of the new code that was added, it would be difficult to simply count how many lines were used, as the functions are interrelated and dependent on one another.

 

[AnOkayDM]

One thing I'm curious about is how does Mewtwo's tail work? None of the other characters use a tail for their attack (aside from Charizard, I believe). Are you able to add new limbs and give them animations?

Doesn't Pikachu too? And Diddy does. Yoshi as well. Heh, there's more than I thought.