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Character Discussion Thread

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queenrosetta

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Why does no one compare Rosalina to the ice climbers. Bc Rosalina and luma are literally two characters they can move apart from each other. So I don't understand if they make it in then why can't the ice climbers? And also olimar with 3 pikmin.

I really am confused someone tell me why!
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Why does no one compare Rosalina to the ice climbers. Bc Rosalina and luma are literally two characters they can move apart from each other. So I don't understand if they make it in then why can't the ice climbers? And also olimar with 3 pikmin.

I really am confused someone tell me why!
Rosalina plays differently from the Ice Climbers. The Ice Climbers have to stick together to be effective, while Rosalina's abilities aren't entirely hindered by the Luma's disappearance.

Also, if the CPU Ice Climber is KO'd, the human player Ice Climber is stuck being solo until he/she is KO'd as well. Whereas, with Rosalina, if the Luma is KO'd, a new one will spawn after about 8 seconds.
 

ElPanandero

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... um... because Ganondorf is Ganon?

What more do you want? He turns INTO Ganon at the end of the ****ing game! :awesome:
And Samus turns into ZSS, which is his argument. At least in this case, according to the timeline theory. Ganona nd Ganondorf could be considred separate characters. And evem if they aren't Pig Ganon is way different from Ganondorf. He won't make it in because Sakurai is a bum, but the fact that they are arbitrarily the same is not a good argument.
 

Weeman

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Rosalina plays differently from the Ice Climbers. The Ice Climbers have to stick together to be effective, while Rosalina's abilities aren't entirely hindered by the Luma's disappearance.

Also, if the CPU Ice Climber is KO'd, the human player Ice Climber is stuck being solo until he/she is KO'd as well. Whereas, with Rosalina, if the Luma is KO'd, a new one will spawn after about 8 seconds.
But he means that, if the Ice Climbers were a problem because of the possible frame rate drop on the 3ds version if you have 4 players using them ( i think that was the problem but i don't remember), then wouldn't the fact that you can have 4 Rosalinas and 4 Lumas mean that the Ice Climbers problem should also be fixed?
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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But he means that, if the Ice Climbers were a problem because of the possible frame rate drop on the 3ds version if you have 4 players using them ( i think that was the problem but i don't remember), then wouldn't the fact that you can have 4 Rosalinas and 4 Lumas mean that the Ice Climbers problem should also be fixed?
The two Ice Climbers share the "exact" same moveset, which isn't the case with Rosalina and her Luma partner. Perhaps it's because the Luma is more like the Pikmin in that it uses a stamina meter, instead of the damage meter that the CPU Ice Climber uses.
 

Morbi

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And Samus turns into ZSS, which is his argument. At least in this case, according to the timeline theory. Ganona nd Ganondorf could be considred separate characters. And evem if they aren't Pig Ganon is way different from Ganondorf. He won't make it in because Sakurai is a bum, but the fact that they are arbitrarily the same is not a good argument.
I was not arguing against Ganon's inclusion in Smash 4. I was merely asserting that "Ganon" is Young Link's "nemesis" in OoT by extension.
 

ElPanandero

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I was not arguing against Ganon's inclusion in Smash 4. I was merely asserting that "Ganon" is Young Link's "nemesis" in OoT by extension.
Oh, my apologies, Carry on then

Also, with the Ice Climbers thing, I think theyre different because Nana responds to all button inputs essentially being a second character, while the Luma as I understand it responds only to certain button presses essecially splitting up Rosalina into two bodies each with a part of the moveset.
 

Weeman

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Ganona and Ganondorf could be considred separate characters.
So female alt. for ganondorf confirmed
female_ganondorf_by_b0rnalady-d53cci3.jpg
:troll::troll::troll:


The two Ice Climbers share the "exact" same moveset, which isn't the case with Rosalina and her Luma partner. Perhaps it's because the Luma is more like the Pikmin in that it uses a stamina meter, instead of the damage meter that the CPU Ice Climber uses.
I see, so was that aspect of their programming the reason why they were giving problems on the 3ds version?, or was it something else?.
 
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queenrosetta

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The two Ice Climbers share the "exact" same moveset, which isn't the case with Rosalina and her Luma partner. Perhaps it's because the Luma is more like the Pikmin in that it uses a stamina meter, instead of the damage meter that the CPU Ice Climber uses.
Ah I see thank you guys! I knew I was missing something
 

KageJuin

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I think the Ice Climber problem stems mainly from having two very detailed models going around at the same time, which seems fine, until everyone picks them. That may cause frame rate drops on the 3DS. Maybe this is why all the transformations were cut, as it also reduces loading times before matches as all models need to be loaded onto the ram. This way the game won't go into a loading screen when switching characters right?

Luma and pikmin are models with almost no detail. They could be considered doodles compared to the regular characters. This is why that works. Also might be the reason the amount of pikmin was decreased in case everyone picks Olimar.

I am by no means an expert but I have made a game before and have spent a year at a Game Dev Uni in the Netherlands.
I assume these may be reasons for Sakurai stating they were batteling with 3DS limitations, saying characters may be back but in reduced format, while saying the roster would be the same on both versions.

Rather than compromising on characters, Sakurai chooses to compromise more on stages and how the characters are being represented.

That's my educated guess anyway. If the Ice Climbers are still two instead of a single character (with male/female option) then that would also be great :p. I am just wondering if he is trying to make it work as a dual character, by reducing the amount of objects the CPU, Ram and GPU may have to juggle all at once with all the new assist trophies and pokemon and whatnot.
 

SeatreasureReturned

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Porky and Giygas would be our only Mother character if Mother dealt with # of games a character was in...
I know I'm super late, but the Mother character with the most appearances is..
I think for some series, number of appearances could have a factor on chances, but it isn't the rule to exercise your point. And Rosalina is reason enough to look past number of appearances.
 

KageJuin

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Well to be fair we don't know yet, he could appear as a boss in his giant eyeball form, just like King Dodongo and Argorok
Yeah... Hyrule warriors still hasn't announced Ganondorf and if this is going to be a Dynasty Warriors game, it means Ganondorf is playable, which means: Until he is revealed, I wouldn't exclude any character. Agatha got in. I have faith in Vaati.
 
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Starcutter

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Yeah... Hyrule warriors still hasn't announced Ganondorf and if this is going to be a Dynasty Warriors game, it means Ganondorf is playable, which means: Until he is revealed, I wouldn't exclude any character. Agatha got in. I have faith in Vaati.
I thought ganondorf was in a trailer... Wasn't he?
 

SmashChu

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The two Ice Climbers share the "exact" same moveset, which isn't the case with Rosalina and her Luma partner. Perhaps it's because the Luma is more like the Pikmin in that it uses a stamina meter, instead of the damage meter that the CPU Ice Climber uses.
It would still cause slow down because they game has to pull out another character.

BTW, the polar bear is in so this suggest the Climbers are back.
 

Weeman

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I think it's leading to a Dark Pit/Hades reveal trailer, a continuation of the Palutena trailer.
Palutena: "Dark Pit, you're here to crash my party?"
Dark Pit: "UH HUH"
Snake: "Keptyouwaitinghuh?"

~Snake drops the bomb!~

Then snake eater starts playing
 

ihskeyp

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I think it's leading to a Dark Pit/Hades reveal trailer, a continuation of the Palutena trailer.
I don't think so. Sakurai said characters have to have differences to even be a clone character. Dark Pit has all the same powers as Pit in Kid Icarus, is the same size and everything. He will likely be an alt costume, like Lucina was originally planned to be.
 

Morbi

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I don't think so. Sakurai said characters have to have differences to even be a clone character. Dark Pit has all the same powers as Pit in Kid Icarus, is the same size and everything. He will likely be an alt costume, like Lucina was originally planned to be.
This is a fallacious assertion. There are quite a few subtle differences that entail "slightly different abilities."

http://kidicarus.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Pit
 

BluePikmin11

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I don't think so. Sakurai said characters have to have differences to even be a clone character. Dark Pit has all the same powers as Pit in Kid Icarus, is the same size and everything. He will likely be an alt costume, like Lucina was originally planned to be.
I think Sakurai understands that Dark Pit can function differently (as he stated in the Famitsu article) and become even an entirely new character, he could potentially pose move differently to easily make him different from other characters.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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You know why it makes more sense to just have Dark Pit play exactly like Pit (making him an alt)?
Because when you play as Dark Pit in Kid Icarus: Uprising he plays exactly like Pit.
 

ihskeyp

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You know why it makes more sense to just have Dark Pit play exactly like Pit (making him an alt)?
Because when you play as Dark Pit in Kid Icarus: Uprising he plays exactly like Pit.
Thank you. If sakurai didn't feel the need to make him his own unique move set in his own game, why would he for smash? And I feel like if he was a character or semiclone, he would've been announced in Palutenas trailer like Lucina was in Robins.
 
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ihskeyp

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But Sakurai (the creator of the character) knows he could easily make him different. :p
He could also make any character from any other game that is actually unique (move set wise, I know, I know, dark out has a different personality) their own character. Why waste time coming up with a move set for a character who is literally made to be exactly like Pit, instead of just making him an alt and easily making a move set for someone who actually has their own moves in a game. Dark Pit doesn't play any differently from Pit in Kid Icarus, it would be strange if sakurai decided to make him no longer be the exact same for smash. It's possible, but it seems ridiculous.
 
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BluePikmin11

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He could also make any character from any other game that is actually unique (move set wise, I know, I know, dark out has a different personality) their own character. Why waste time coming up with a move set for a character who is literally made to be exactly like Pit, instead of just making him an alt and easily making a move set for someone who actually has their own moves in a game. Dark Pit doesn't play any differently from Pit in Kid Icarus, it would be strange if sakurai decided to make him no longer be the exact same for smash. It's possible, but it seems ridiculous.
Because there is unfilled gap of KI:U's potential weaponry that would make good for even an entire moveset for Dark Pit.
 

ihskeyp

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Because there is unfilled gap of KI:U's potential weaponry that would make good for even an entire moveset for Dark Pit.
Or they could make good customizable moves for Pit, that Dark Pit could use while someone is playing as him in alternate costume form.
 

ihskeyp

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And so far, his special moves seem to be focusing on size and the speed of the moves so far based on the Custom Moveset Trailer. :p
Now that I think about it, Dark Pit wouldn't even be an alt costume. He would be a palette swap with a unique voice. I guess if they are low on time and feel like they can throw together a move set based on weapons, they could go ahead and do it. It would be extremely lame though, that they wouldn't need to change ANYTHING on Pits model to make a character that wasn't even the main villain of the game. I'd get over it, since Palutena is in, but I'd probably be sad for 10 mins after seeing the trailer. If you want to support a lazy character inclusion, go for it, I can't make decisions for others :)
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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Because there is unfilled gap of KI:U's potential weaponry that would make good for even an entire moveset for Dark Pit.
Those potential weapons are being made into items for a reason. This excuse could also be used for Fire Emblem, there are so many different weapons from Fire Emblem that have yet to be implemented in Smash.
 

G0LD3N L0TUS

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The two things from the very top of my head that separates Dark Pit is that Dark Pit doesn't rely on a deity for flight (meaning unlimited flight) and he prefers to fight with just his Silver Bow. He could easily be a modified Brawl Pit.
 
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