Character Discussion Thread

[KageJuin]

By this criteria wouldn't Lucina be just a Marth Alt?

guess we all guessed wrong and she's the most unoriginal clone ever in fighting game history.

I expect the same from dark pit.
"He is slightly slower and slightly stronger than pit, only marginally. But when there are differences, even if they are minor, they deserve a spot on the roster!"

ugh...Sakurai...get lost

 

[Autumn ♫]

The two thing from the very top of my head that separates the two is that Dark Pit doesn't rely on a deity for flight (meaning unlimited flight) and he prefers to fight with just his Silver Bow. He could easily be a modified Brawl Pit.

After the defeat of Pandora the 2nd time, he depends on the power of flight from either Viridi or Palutena, but yes, I do think he couldbe his own character.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

After the defeat of Pandora the 2nd time, he depends on the power of flight from either Viridi or Palutena, but yes, I do think he couldbe his own character.

It`s an ability he once had, and more-so, one he started with, so I don`t see a problem with implementing it to Smash.

 

[KageJuin]

It`s an ability he once had, and more-so, one he started with, so I don`t see a problem with implementing it to Smash.

always having flight? so... worse than pit or metaknight in brawl? just recover at all times?
hm...
the game designer in me wants to shout "no".

I don't think they would put that detail in. Otherwise Kirby needs infinite jumps.

Sakurai:"I decided to make the anti-hero of my second game series top tier this time. He'll be Dark pit. He is slightly slower but slightly stronger than Pit. A little heavier and he has the ability to fly indefinitely. Enjoy!"

 

[Morbi]

It`s an ability he once had, and more-so, one he started with, so I don`t see a problem with implementing it to Smash.

always having flight? so... worse than pit or metaknight in brawl? just recover at all times?
hm...
the game designer in me wants to shout "no".

I don't think they would put that detail in. Otherwise Kirby needs infinite jumps.

Could you please under-line where he insinuated anything SLIGHTLY related to that?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

By this criteria wouldn't Lucina be just a Marth Alt?

guess we all guessed wrong and she's the most unoriginal clone ever in fighting game history.

I expect the same from dark pit.
"He is slightly slower and slightly stronger than pit, only marginally. But when there are differences, even if they are minor, they deserve a spot on the roster!"

ugh...Sakurai...get lost

Sakurai thought about having her be an alt but changed his mind for unclear reasons (I think it was because she was so popular that he found it worth making her her own character and/or he wanted a version of Marth that would be easier to use so that more people could enjoy that playstyle) but he did specify that she was very lucky to make it in as her own character. I don't think a palette swap who is less popular than Lucina is going to be so lucky.

 

[KageJuin]

Could you please under-line where he insinuated anything SLIGHTLY related to that?

The two things from the very top of my head that separates Dark Pit is that Dark Pit doesn't rely on a deity for flight (meaning unlimited flight) and he prefers to fight with just his Silver Bow. He could easily be a modified Brawl Pit.

you could have just checked the last page bro

 

[Morbi]

you could have just checked the last page bro

Or you could have quoted the actual post that you intended to reference? Bro.

Secondly, he did not assert that Pittoo would have unlimited flight in his move-set, he stated that it was an ability that differentiates him from Pit. I believe that Pit can only fly with the aid of Palutena for five minutes, after that, his wings "burn." Dark Pit does not have this issue initially and therefore he has unlimited flight in Kid Icarus canon.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

you could have just checked the last page bro

He could easily be a modified Brawl Pit.

You ignored this part.

 

[AEMehr]

You know why it makes more sense to just have Dark Pit play exactly like Pit (making him an alt)?

Spoiler

Because when you play as Dark Pit in Kid Icarus: Uprising he plays exactly like Pit.

This is probably because Dark Pit is supposed to be a clone of Pit, so if he wasn't going to have any similarities to Pitin the first place it would defeat the entire purpose of the character.

The main reason as to why Dark Pit can function as a clone to Pit isn't because of the fact that they're separate characters, it's because of their weapon choice.
Pit uses the Palutena Bow while Dark Pit uses the Silver Bow. These two weapons have varying properties, much like Marth's Falchion and Lucina's Falchion. These varying properties do allow the possibility of the two weapons and characters working differently in a Smash game.
There is also a good possibility that Dark Pit could utilize different weapons for his side and down special, they may not even need to be the same weapon types (I could easily see Dark Pit use the First Blade and Dark Pit Staff as special replacements).
In fact Pittoo can also be a very aerial focused fighter (since he can fly on his own and all).
Heck, he could even be a heavily modified Brawl Pit (which was previously mentioned).

Dark Pit is definitely good clone material, whether you like it or not. I myself am not very open to the idea, but if it was a mid-development decision like Lucina was I guess I would be okay with it. It really just depends on how they would go about this.

 

[KageJuin]

Dark Pit for God Tier

 

[Zynux]

I wasn't arguing that canon importance is what puts characters in smash bros, I was saying that the "x character won't get in because he hasn't appeared in Y number of games"

Ah I see, then you are indeed correct. I will humbly admit, I would much rather have characters pulled for this roster to be characters that I believe have proven the test of time and had become stables and/or iconic of their respective series (something I do not believe Ghirahim has achieved yet), but this subjective reasoning (and the amount of games he's been in) does indeed not pertain to whether he will make it into Smash or not, especially considering the numerous examples of characters we have already that contradict the notion (Rosalina, Greninja, etc.).

For the record, if we were to get a Zelda newcomer, I would probably bet on Ghirahim.

Sakurai thought about having her be an alt but changed his mind for unclear reasons (I think it was because she was so popular that he found it worth making her her own character and/or he wanted a version of Marth that would be easier to use so that more people could enjoy that playstyle) but he did specify that she was very lucky to make it in as her own character. I don't think a palette swap who is less popular than Lucina is going to be so lucky.

Indeed. Despite Lucina's inclusion opening people up to the possibility of more clones, I don't believe the floodgates were opened yet. Lucina may just be the only exception. I'm not expecting much more.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Guys I seriously cannot find the General Character Discussion thread.

All I ever see discussed here is Dark Pit.

If this is the Dark Pit thread then where is General Discussion?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

At least with Lucina there's a practical reason for having her be her own character, she's there for people that have trouble using Marth. She's meant to be easier to use. I can't think of a practical reason to make Dark Pit his own character instead of an alternate costume.

 

[AEMehr]

Guys I seriously cannot find the General Character Discussion thread.

All I ever see discussed here is Dark Pit.

If this is the Dark Pit thread then where is General Discussion?

We used to discuss Fire Emblem every day here, but now that there is no need to discuss it anymore Dark Pit has taken it's place.

 

[Con0rrrr]

We used to discuss Fire Emblem every day here, but now that there is no need to discuss it anymore Dark Pit has taken it's place.

At least FE has merit. Dark Pit is an obvious alt based on Sakurai's quote

 

[Morbi]

At least with Lucina there's a practical reason for having her be her own character, she's there for people that have trouble using Marth. She's meant to be easier to use. I can't think of a practical reason to make Dark Pit his own character instead of an alternate costume.

Dark Pit could function as an easier way to use Pit or as a version of Pit more reminiscent of his Brawl version for fans of his previous character, such as my sister (albeit, she is enthusiastic about his changes, but she might enjoy clinging to the past as well).

 

[AEMehr]

At least FE has merit. Dark Pit is an obvious alt based on Sakurai's quote

There's enough logical reasoning behind thinking Dark Pit could be a separate character. It isn't like suggesting Shadow or Silver is a feasible option for Sonic or something. This situation isn't nearly as black and white like you're saying it is.

At least with Lucina there's a practical reason for having her be her own character, she's there for people that have trouble using Marth. She's meant to be easier to use. I can't think of a practical reason to make Dark Pit his own character instead of an alternate costume.

Exactly, I see the exact same issue with making him playable. Pit in Brawl wasn't necessarily difficult to use. There was a small learning curve with his Arrows, but he was a pretty simple character in Brawl. From what I can tell, Pit seems to have moved further into that easy-to-use range. So if Dark Pit was playable he'd be more likely to be a Luigi-fied clone, since there is no real purpose to having a Pit clone. Which would suggest he was planned from the start, and I heavily doubt that would be the case.

 

[Zynux]

At least with Lucina there's a practical reason for having her be her own character, she's there for people that have trouble using Marth. She's meant to be easier to use. I can't think of a practical reason to make Dark Pit his own character instead of an alternate costume.

I would argue against the practical implications of adding Lucina (I don't believe an "easier version" of Marth was at all necessary), but I get your point. Even if Dark Pit becomes a full-fledged character (instead of an alt.), there would need to be a justification (no matter how dubious) for his existence as a clone.

I can see the logic, but at the same time I can see Sakurai using anything to justify Dark Pit's inclusion to the roster.

 

[Deleted member]

Watch as Sakurai freaks with everyone's minds and reveals Dark Pit as a Luigi-level semi-clone.

Similarities where it makes sense due to who they are, but differences in multiple aspects to establish their own identities (which, coincidentally, both characters had to go through in canon).

 

[epicgordan]

What if....

On Friday, Shulk uses the power of the Monado to save Ness from Meta Knight's fury and change their destinies. It seems much more realistic given recent events than seeing Bandana Dee getting a reveal trailer at SDCC.

 

[Sebz]

All this talk about Dark Pit just reminds me of how much I'd rather have Hades. Four player Hades free for all = 4th wall obliteration.

 

[Morbi]

All this talk about Dark Pit just reminds me of how much I'd rather have Hades. Four player Hades free for all = 4th wall obliteration.

Hades is most certainly one of my most wanted newcomers in general, always has been, but Dark Pit is not a bad alternative for someone like me; someone who only wants another Kid Icarus character as I adore them all.

What if....

On Friday, Shulk uses the power of the Monado to save Ness from Meta Knight's fury and change their destinies. It seems much more realistic given recent events than seeing Bandana Dee getting a reveal trailer at SDCC.

I would be okay with this if Shulk uses the power of the Monado to have Dark Pit revealed instead.

 

[Rockaphin]

Eh, I'm all for Medusa. Hades would be neat as well. But that's for the next Smash, if that. If Kid Icarus continues to grow then sure why not, but I personally think two characters are enough for now.

 

[Cobalsh]

My reaction to this whole Dark Pit thing.

It's ruining our conversations. Talk about something else for a change. Like... if Konami cut Snake and added another newcomer, who would it be?

My money's on Belmont.

 

[Kenith]

Like... if Konami cut Snake and added another newcomer, who would it be?

My money's on Belmont.

Bomberman.

Got to have more Mans, man.
Also, people liek Bomberman.

 

[Diddy Kong]

By this criteria wouldn't Lucina be just a Marth Alt?

guess we all guessed wrong and she's the most unoriginal clone ever in fighting game history.

I expect the same from dark pit.
"He is slightly slower and slightly stronger than pit, only marginally. But when there are differences, even if they are minor, they deserve a spot on the roster!"

ugh...Sakurai...get lost

I actually like clones. As long as they are not out of place (Ganondorf), a worse version of the original character (Pichu, Roy) or just plain uninspired (Dr.Mario).

Toon Link, Falco, Wolf, Lucas and Lucina are all fine to me.

And yes, I think I'd be okay with Dark Pit to.

 

[YoshiandToad]

It's ruining our conversations. Talk about something else for a change. Like... if Konami cut Snake and added another newcomer, who would it be?

My money's on Belmont.

This individual.

We got Megaman, Pac-Man, Jump Man, Rayman rumour suggests he's been considered, let's complete the man set with the only other video game man worth a damn.

Plus you know....Explosive moveset to replace explosive moveset.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It would still cause slow down because they game has to pull out another character.

BTW, the polar bear is in so this suggest the Climbers are back.

The quality of the model may play a factor too. The Pikmin likely weren't high quality material, as they only used one solid color, and their textures are small. The Luma is probably the same way in that it may only have eye textures, and its body only uses one solid color as well.

 

[~Krystal~]

It's ruining our conversations. Talk about something else for a change. Like... if Konami cut Snake and added another newcomer, who would it be?

My money's on Belmont.

My top choice outside of Snake is Bomberman, however, I am willing to entertain the idea of Dracula if for no other reason than to say, "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!"

 

[ElPanandero]

This individual.

We got Megaman, Pac-Man, Jump Man, Rayman rumour suggests he's been considered, let's complete the man set with the only other video game man worth a damn.

Plus you know....Explosive moveset to replace explosive moveset.

Bomberman could be the stage control character, the one Snake is supposed to be, and it to an extent, in Project M. He would be a chaotic, pace controlling character like a 4 player match in bomberman 64...at least I could hope right?

But for real Bomberman > Snake for me

 

[Bowserlick]

At least with Lucina there's a practical reason for having her be her own character, she's there for people that have trouble using Marth. She's meant to be easier to use. I can't think of a practical reason to make Dark Pit his own character instead of an alternate costume.

Give Dark Pit the gliding mechanic and old Up Special to make him the harder to use Pit.

 

[SmashChu]

The quality of the model may play a factor too. The Pikmin likely weren't high quality material, as they only used one solid color, and their textures are small. The Luma is probably the same way in that it may only have eye textures, and its body only uses one solid color as well.

The textures wont matter because the characters should be roughly the same. The issue would more so be that the game is loading two files. I suspect Luma has it's own file similar to the IC and the Diddy Dixie thing. If they can do that character, than IC should be possible.

 

[Twin Shot]

This individual.

We got Megaman, Pac-Man, Jump Man, Rayman rumour suggests he's been considered, let's complete the man set with the only other video game man worth a damn.

Plus you know....Explosive moveset to replace explosive moveset.

I would think Simon would be the most likely individual for Konami.

Honestly, would love to see Bomberman but I wouldn't count him in unless he starts getting newer full fledged games. Smash could be a great way to jump start that, though.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The textures wont matter because the characters should be roughly the same. The issue would more so be that the game is loading two files. I suspect Luma has it's own file similar to the IC and the Diddy Dixie thing. If they can do that character, than IC should be possible.

To be fair, the models for Popo and Nana are in a single file. This also applies to Olimar's Pikmin, so perhaps Rosalina's model and the Luma's model are in a single file as well.

 

[KageJuin]

The problem has to do with having many detailed models on screen, running their scripts at the same time.
Many complex objects need a ton of RAM and a good CPU/GPU to be able to process it all to avoid framerate drops or game slowdown or whatnot( even freezes or crashing).

Textures play a small role, but vertexes and complex animations are much more important.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Bomberman is nice and all, but I figure we already have 2 bomb users in the game. I rather see SiMAN Belmont sporting his good old whip/chain/flamingchain to battle, and the use of stuff like Holy Water (Down B), Axe (Side B), Cross Boomerang (B), and for recovery he could use the giant vampire-bat Boss from the 1st Castelvania level! His Final Smash could be that time stopping clock he gets in his games.

I'd really like to see another "Middle-ranger" in the game. And of course, seeing him next to Megaman, and Pit, (and Samus, and Link) for a get together of Captain N's old allies.

Hmm.. wonder what the level of "Star Power" Simon has when compared to the rest of the 3rd party characters we got so far.
My guess is that he's not as popular as Snake on any country, but IF Snake is a 100% out of the way because Kojima wants it so, could Simon take his place for Konami?

 

[NickerBocker]

if Konami cut Snake and added another newcomer, who would it be?

Ya probably not gonna happen, but a man can dream...

 

[Rockaphin]

Alucard > Bomberman > Simon Belmont > Raiden > Snake
I loved me some Bomberman Generations, but Alucard can shape-shift into different animals and that would be very neat to see. His Up-Special has to be him transforming into a bat.

 

[Weeman]

Snake, i don't care for the others, just put Snake back in and we're good. And Hawlucha while we're at it...