Character Discussion Thread

[JaidynReiman]

I think it's more a matter of, if there were any chance for said character to be DLC, why would they waste development time to make that character anything other than playable in the first place? Takamaru as a DLC character? Why would they make him an assist trophy if he's just going to be DLC later, they wasted time to make the assist trophy. Ridley as DLC? Then they would have just wasted even more time to make him a stage boss when they clearly know how much people wanted him to be playable.

To put it in simpler terms, you wouldn't build a house only to decide that you want it in a completely different location later.

And the new Palutena convo discovered CLEARLY implies that they DID in fact take DLC into consideration when designing the game. Even if they didn't have DLC planned (which honestly I do not believe, I think DLC has been planned since at least the roster was finalized, which is presumably prior to E3 2014).

 

[JamesDNaux]

And the new Palutena convo discovered CLEARLY implies that they DID in fact take DLC into consideration when designing the game. Even if they didn't have DLC planned (which honestly I do not believe, I think DLC has been planned since at least the roster was finalized, which is presumably prior to E3 2014).

This... has nothing to do with what I just said?

Sure it could mean that we may get more than just Mewtwo, but it doesn't help any assist trophies/bosses.

 

[Kalimdori]

Characters don't have dual roles.

Would it make sense to have character X summon himself from an Assist Trophy? No, it wouldn't.

There's a reason why Toon Link is replaced by Alfonzo on the Spirit Train. There's a reason why Charizard and Little Mac stopped being summons when they became playable.

The only exception for multiple characters is multiple players selecting the same character, also being forced to use a different color/alt. This is obviously due to gameplay, as it allows any player to pick any character. Would be unfair otherwise.

An exception does not a rule make.

You lost me the second you tried to tie "Making sense" into Smash Bros. Doesn't make sense that we can have Sheik, ZSS, Samus, and Zelda all in one battle, or 8 of any character for that matter, yet it happens anyway.

Yes, there is a reason why Charizard and Little Mac stopped being summons. They were planned that way from the get go, there is no point in adding in an AT of a playable character. Promoting an assist to a character, however, has a point, it brings further attention to the character, allows the developers to do more things with the character.

You can have a Riki AT on the field and have him summoned in Shulk's Final Smash at the same time. This doesn't cause some sort of Smash Bros apocalypse. If you happen to pick the same character and color in Online mode the game doesn't force one person to switch colors.

An exception does not a rule make, yes, but there isn't an official rule there in the first place!

Sakurai wouldn't just go through all the time and trouble he would need to convert an assist trophy to a playable character.

Instead going through the trouble to build an entirely new character from the ground up?



If somebody can give me a source as to why the development team is incapable of making an AT into a character and removing/altering/doing nothing to the original AT, i will wholeheartedly agree with you that this will never happen and drop the entire discussion. But this is a possible scenario that could happen. Suppose a reboot to Murasame Castle comes along, something that was not planned when Takamaru was decided as an AT. Assuming DLC continues, is it so improbable that Sakurai would hear about this, look at Takamaru's role in Smash Bros, and decide that he could be upgraded? If you can answer that with a no, then please tell me what other characters might be coming as DLC, because you clearly have some sort of inside look into the Smash development team that the rest of us do not.


EDIT: I would also like to point out that dual roles are all over the place in Smash Bros. For example, you can have the Pacman Ghost AT's on PacLand, where the Ghosts are also a stage hazard, and have 4 different Pacman's on the stage also summoning ghosts through his moveset.

 

[JamesDNaux]

If somebody can give me a source as to why the development team is incapable of making an AT into a character and removing/altering/doing nothing to the original AT, i will wholeheartedly agree with you that this will never happen and drop the entire discussion.

They are not incapable of say, upgrading Takamaru to a playable character, it's entirely possible.

But the point is that they already made him what he is in the first place, an assist trophy. I'll try another analogy, imagine someone ordering a big meal at a restaurant, the chef cooks it and it gets served, but at the last minute, the customer decides that they want a completely different meal. Now all of the food that the chef prepared has gone to waste and he has to start from scratch, aka, everything the dev team already did to make Takamaru an assist was now for nothing, it's a waste of time and effort.

Why would Sakurai, if he ever had any thought on adding Takamaru as a playable character, tell his team to do something completely different? If it crossed his mind to make him playable, he would have left Takamaru out completely so as to use him later. If he wanted to make Takamaru playable, the time that went into making the assist could have gone to making him playable.


Basically, there's a reason that Mewtwo isn't a Pokeball summon, boss, or any other sort of thing.

This is also the only thing that gives me any indication towards Isaac having a chance at DLC.

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh this whole dual role thing is all over the place in these games imo (Probably even moreso than in previous titles) You have the whole infamous Link/Toon Link/Conductor Link/Alfonzo shenanigans, and then you have Duck Hunt and the Duck Hunt stage as well as Donkey Kong (Cranky and whatnot aside, it's more or less similar to Wind Waker and Spirit Tracks Link, not to mention Donkey Kong in the Duck Hunt Trailer), then there is the Pac-Man ghosts (I don't know if there are multiple of these guys), that character from Xenoblade who is both an Assist Trophy and part of a Final Smash, Tom Nook and the Nooklings being both a Final Smash and Background Stage Elements and then there are characters like Samus & Zero Suit Samus and probably some other stuff I forgot.

*sigh*

 

[Kalimdori]

Why would Sakurai, if he ever had any thought on adding Takamaru as a playable character, tell his team to do something completely different? If it crossed his mind to make him playable, he would have left Takamaru out completely so as to use him later. If he wanted to make Takamaru playable, the time that went into making the assist could have gone to making him playable.

Purely hypothetically speaking, but perhaps Takamaru had lower priorities of the other cast, and the team wanted to include him in some way? Or he was originally decided as an AT from the get go, but something could happen in the future that would make Sakurai consider upgrading his status? The time to make any character into an assist is miniscule compared to the time it would take to make him playable. If that priority changes, Murasame Castle remake happens, or just choosing to use existing assets (The AT) for DLC, over making an entirely new character, it's a plausible scenario.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Purely hypothetically speaking, but perhaps Takamaru had lower priorities of the other cast, and the team wanted to include him in some way? Or he was originally decided as an AT from the get go, but something could happen in the future that would make Sakurai consider upgrading his status? The time to make any character into an assist is miniscule compared to the time it would take to make him playable. If that priority changes, Murasame Castle remake happens, or just choosing to use existing assets (The AT) for DLC, over making an entirely new character, it's a plausible scenario.

This is exactly what I'm thinking, just like Little Mac.


For the next game.


Mind, Takamaru was in my top five most wanted. I would be arguing for him if I thought it were possible.

 

[Arcadenik]

To put it in simpler terms, you wouldn't build a house only to decide that you want it in a completely different location later.

Ugh.... that is like the first hard lesson you learn in Animal Crossing...

 

[Kalimdori]

This is exactly what I'm thinking, just like Little Mac.


For the next game.


Mind, Takamaru was in my top five most wanted. I would be arguing for him if I thought it were possible.

Why does it have to be next game though? It will be a good 7 years, at the very least until we get another Smash game, maybe even longer, and almost definitely the last one Sakurai works on, if he works on another it might kill him. In addition to that, they have the capabilities of adding DLC into this one. I don't see them automatically cutting themselves off from possible content just because of some Smashboards rules that may or may not actually apply.

 

[JaidynReiman]

This... has nothing to do with what I just said?

Sure it could mean that we may get more than just Mewtwo, but it doesn't help any assist trophies/bosses.

"I think it's more a matter of, if there were any chance for said character to be DLC,"

This is what I was referring to. I'm just emphasizing the fact that the Palutena convo seems to imply that Nintendo did, in fact, take DLC into consideration when finalizing the roster, which also applies to picking Assist Trophies they had no intention of ever being added as a playable character through DLC later.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Does anyone know where the old Smash 4 character support boards are?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Does anyone know where the old Smash 4 character support boards are?

Which one in particular?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Which one in particular?

The old gigantic list of all the threads.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The old gigantic list of all the threads.

Is it not stickied?

Edit: No its not anymore... I'd Google the thread or just sift through the pages.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Is it not stickied?

Edit: No its not anymore... I'd Google the thread or just sift through the pages.

What was the thread called though?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

So... am I the only one that believes Squirtle and Ivysaur will be released with Mewtwo? As much as Pokemon is over-represented (my opinion) I think along with Wolf, and hopefully maybe Snake, they just seem to be shoo-in's. These are just my thoughts though, what do y'all think?

 

[False Sense]

So... am I the only one that believes Squirtle and Ivysaur will be released with Mewtwo? As much as Pokemon is over-represented (my opinion) I think along with Wolf, and hopefully maybe Snake, they just seem to be shoo-in's. These are just my thoughts though, what do y'all think?

Well, for starters, I don't believe anyone is a shoo-in. Secondly... I don't see Squirtle and Ivysaur as likely DLC candidates. Really, the only reason they made it in to begin with was to serve as additional Pokemon to complement the Pokemon Trainer and Charizard. On their own, they don't have much merit for being added, especially now that the Pokemon Trainer concept has been removed entirely. The only thing they have in their favor is their status as veterans, and as far as veterans go... They seem like pretty low priorities when compared to the likes of Wolf or Lucas. There's just not much reason for them to bring them back at this point.

 

[JaidynReiman]

So... am I the only one that believes Squirtle and Ivysaur will be released with Mewtwo? As much as Pokemon is over-represented (my opinion) I think along with Wolf, and hopefully maybe Snake, they just seem to be shoo-in's. These are just my thoughts though, what do y'all think?

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that veterans have a significantly less chance of coming back than people keep suggesting. And really, the only one who will play any sort of major role in the near future anyway is Wolf, and that's only if he comes back in Star Fox (though I'd say he most likely will). Even then, I'm not convinced Wolf is as likely as everyone says.

He's the most likely veteran to return probably, but I'm kinda thinking that they might decide to expand on new characters instead of just bringing back old characters as DLC. Especially due to this notion of "cutting up content to sell later" that people will definitely complain about when it comes to cut veterans.

 

[Sausage Zeldas]

So... am I the only one that believes Squirtle and Ivysaur will be released with Mewtwo? As much as Pokemon is over-represented (my opinion) I think along with Wolf, and hopefully maybe Snake, they just seem to be shoo-ins. These are just my thoughts though, what do y'all think?

If they were to be released at all, they wouldn't be released with Mewtwo. Sakurai has made it clear that character development takes a long time; two entire characters wouldn't be something they could just sorta toss in beside Mewtwo. They would each take at least another few months, and with that sort of scale it would be pretty dumb to wait to release them all at once instead of just one-by-one, especially with how much they want to get Mewtwo out there.
...Unless I'm misinterpreting and you're just using Mewtwo as a reason that Squirtle & Ivysaur could be released, in which case ignore me and refer to the above posts.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Ah, this is where I belong. Went to the social thread by accident, and Christ, that was scary.....so yeah, Palutena convo, not getting my hopes up. It shouldn't be anyone in particular besides Mewtwo, because then Mewtwo's would be there, so my guesses are that it's either Mewtwo's, which makes no sense, or a prior draft of the Mii Fighters/3rd Parties before they got detailed ones. I don't like the idea of a placeholder one, that just seems really, REALLY off, to me.

If I had to choose to place my money on a DLC character, it would be Snake. Mewtwo's not being alongside it really bugs me, but it's possible that this character was planned even before Mewtwo, and Sakurai is once again flipping us the bird. Snake would be the perfect character to do that with.

 

[Deathlightning21]

I heard a theory that the palu convo was to be aimed at the hacker that found the files.

But it's just a theory.

 

[Pazzo.]

I heard a theory that the palu convo was to be aimed at the hacker that found the files.

But it's just a theory.

Greatest joke in the history of ever if that was true.

This is exactly what I'm thinking, just like Little Mac.


For the next game.


Mind, Takamaru was in my top five most wanted. I would be arguing for him if I thought it were possible.

Eh, I see Smash 4 getting improvements over the years, rather than a dedicated sequel.

Maybe we'll see one, but it could be longer than the wait between Brawl -> Now.

 

[Twin Shot]

I wouldn't count Young Link out entirely. Know I am daydreaming a bit, but hey!

Think it would be very cool to get a Zelda DLC corresponding with the Majora Mask remake that would add alt skins (OoT Versions) and Toon Links could potentially be Young Link. Don't really see Young Link coming back as his own character akin to Dr. Mario, though.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Eh, I see Smash 4 getting improvements over the years, rather than a dedicated sequel.

Maybe we'll see one, but it could be longer than the wait between Brawl -> Now.

We've gotten a new Smash with each new console since the N64, I don't see why that would stop.

DLC for this game would be pointless when we get the Super Wii U Advance 64.

 

[Substitution]

In terms of the Palutena conversation. I only see it as a placeholder (or a failsafe if anything goes wrong). It's simply too vague to be meant for a character.

Ah, this is where I belong. Went to the social thread by accident, and Christ, that was scary.....

It's a nice place once you get to know them.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Did I just see someone say that Chrom is possible for DLC? That's as laughable as expecting Geno to be in Smash period.

 

[Kenith]

Did I just see someone say that Chrom is possible for DLC? That's as laughable as expecting Geno to be in Smash period.

Don't be so cocky. There was a time when Robin was where he is now.

 

[False Sense]

Don't be so cocky. There was a time when Robin was where he is now.

We've certainly come a long way, haven't we?

While I do think we shouldn't entirely rule out the possibility... Chrom has so many things against him right now. Even Robin was in a much better position before his/her reveal than Chrom is in now.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

What happened to Chrom was probably one of the most surprising moments during Sm4sh's development. I remember so many people banking on him being the next FE character.

 

[Lilfut]

I hadn't even thought about Robin. I assumed Chrom was a shoo-in.

Still think they could do something with lances, but eh.

 

[Kenith]

I hadn't even thought about Robin. I assumed Chrom was a shoo-in.
Still think they could do something with lances, but eh.

Cordelia or Frederick maybe?

 

[Lilfut]

No I mean, giving Chrom lances.
For purely lance-wielding characters, Ephraim or Sigurd.

 

[YoshiandToad]

The fact that Charizard and Little Mac are no longer assists should mean something if you ask me.
You can be a trophy and a playable character, Mewtwo suggests that is possible. But I highly doubt anybody that, again, effects the gameplay by means of being: an assist trophy, pokeball pokemon, stage hazard (I'm sure background characters are fine), a part of an existing fighter's moveset, an enemy character, and probably even an item in smash tour are out of the running to be dlc.
I mean I want Dillon, dude is like my most wanted first party guy; but he's not getting in if he has a role as an assist trophy. I don't understand why this logic was seen as common knowledge before the game came out, but now that dlc is a possibility, the accepted concept is just thrown out the window for literally no reason.

Hmm. AEM, may I ask your opinion on the chances of Captain Toad as a DLC fighter? All DLC characters are admittedly slim, but with Toad as part of Peach's moveset, do you think it's a dealbreaker?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

My logic says it's not a problem.
Sakurai's logic (Replacing Conductor with Alfonso when Twilight Link is on the field) may say no.

Although 8-Bit seems to be an exception, with Duck Hunt Dog and DK both appearing in 8-Bit Glory as Stage Hazards.

 

[Freduardo]

Eh this whole dual role thing is all over the place in these games imo (Probably even moreso than in previous titles) You have the whole infamous Link/Toon Link/Conductor Link/Alfonzo shenanigans, and then you have Duck Hunt and the Duck Hunt stage as well as Donkey Kong (Cranky and whatnot aside, it's more or less similar to Wind Waker and Spirit Tracks Link, not to mention Donkey Kong in the Duck Hunt Trailer), then there is the Pac-Man ghosts (I don't know if there are multiple of these guys), that character from Xenoblade who is both an Assist Trophy and part of a Final Smash, Tom Nook and the Nooklings being both a Final Smash and Background Stage Elements and then there are characters like Samus & Zero Suit Samus and probably some other stuff I forgot.

*sigh*

.

This, along with kalimdori's earlier post is where he points out it would be easier to turn certain dual roles into playable characters than building a new character is why I really feel assists and stage elements with fairly complete movesets would be really easy to see.

Mainly Flying Man and Magnus.

I'd like a 16 bit Game and watch type character, and flying man would do that as well as give mother representation that makes losing Lucas feel better.

Magnus just seems like a playable character that got made into an assist by how he fights.

 

[Curious Villager]

Like I said, it's all over the place. I'm still not even sure with the whole Alfonzo thing. Apparently it's okay for Link and Toon Link to be together in the same place, but neither (Yes, even Twilight Link) can coexist with Conductor Link without him getting replaced with Alfonzo for whatever reason.....

I'm not even sure really.... I suppose having 5 Link's on the 3DS version is one Link too many..... :/

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that veterans have a significantly less chance of coming back than people keep suggesting. And really, the only one who will play any sort of major role in the near future anyway is Wolf, and that's only if he comes back in Star Fox (though I'd say he most likely will). Even then, I'm not convinced Wolf is as likely as everyone says.

He's the most likely veteran to return probably, but I'm kinda thinking that they might decide to expand on new characters instead of just bringing back old characters as DLC. Especially due to this notion of "cutting up content to sell later" that people will definitely complain about when it comes to cut veterans.

There is a mode in the new Star Fox game called Vs Wolf...
I don't see why Sakurai wouldn't bring back some veterans, especially when people are asking for it, I won't care if I have to pay, I'll be happy just to get one of my mains back. should be the bare minimal of veteran and character DLC. Plus the veterans are easier to bring back than the newcomers.
WOLF FOR DLC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Deathlightning21]

Like I said, it's all over the place. I'm still not even sure with the whole Alfonzo thing. Apparently it's okay for Link and Toon Link to be together in the same place, but neither (Yes, even Twilight Link) can coexist with Conductor Link without him getting replaced with Alfonzo for whatever reason.....

I'm not even sure really.... I suppose having 5 Link's on the 3DS version is one Link too many..... :/

This game is so polarizing, giving hope to so many with this Alfonzo stuff and yet no hope at all...

 

[Kenith]

All I know is I want Mewtwo to come out so that we can see if he gets new trophies, and if they replace the old one.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Ah, this is where I belong. Went to the social thread by accident, and Christ, that was scary.....so yeah, Palutena convo, not getting my hopes up. It shouldn't be anyone in particular besides Mewtwo, because then Mewtwo's would be there, so my guesses are that it's either Mewtwo's, which makes no sense, or a prior draft of the Mii Fighters/3rd Parties before they got detailed ones. I don't like the idea of a placeholder one, that just seems really, REALLY off, to me.

If I had to choose to place my money on a DLC character, it would be Snake. Mewtwo's not being alongside it really bugs me, but it's possible that this character was planned even before Mewtwo, and Sakurai is once again flipping us the bird. Snake would be the perfect character to do that with.

I think its for people who don't own the DLC characters, if you don't own Mewtwo,but your friend does and you trigger the codec, you get that message.