Character Discussion Thread

[Frostwraith]

You can't summon an Assist Trophy at will, though. It's entirely random. You can spend an hour trying to summon one specific Assist Trophy and it will not appear (I know, I have done it). Other times, it might take two tries. It's already really inconsistent, and if that Assist Trophy only appears when that character is not around, it would probably go unnoticed for a long time.
And if you're trying to say it can't happen because it wouldn't be "right", well that is entirely arbitrary and applies to trophies as well.

It's a matter of GAME DESIGN. You missed my point completely.

RNG is RNG, which means it may happen twice in a row or take hours to do. It's random. (Not really random as software uses pseudo-random number generators, so it's not always that consistent.)

It's also a fact that ANY character can summon ANY Assist Trophy, which means ANY Assist Trophy can aid ANY character.

By putting an Assist Trophy not appearing when certain characters are in play, you're destroying the GAME DESIGN itself.

And all of this is implying the game is even designed to do that (hence my emphasis on GAME DESIGN). The game might not even be designed to handle such a situation.

 

[Kalimdori]

Why is it necessary to force the AT/Pokeball/whatever to not show up? You can fight with 8 of the same characters at once, what is so horrible about 9? Not to mention that the Dark Samus Palette Swap and the Dark Samus alt are near identical.

DLC characters will only be characters that don't have a role in this game. Mewtwo fits that. Wolf, Lucas and other cut veterans fit that. Possible newcomers like Dixie Kong or Inkling fit that. Assist Trophies, Poké Balls and other such roles don't.

That criteria is entirely made up.

 

[Kenith]

That criteria is entirely made up.

This guy.

By putting an Assist Trophy not appearing when certain characters are in play, you're destroying the GAME DESIGN itself.
And all of this is implying the game is even designed to do that (hence my emphasis on GAME DESIGN). The game might not even be designed to handle such a situation.

I'm sorry, I'm destroying GAME DESIGN for trying to find a workaround for an arbitrary issue?
As Kalim pointed out, Dark Samus and Samus's DS palette look nearly identical. If that is completely okay, then I'm sure having two Dillon's that are exactly the same color will be okay.
And even if, by chance, it still is too confusing, they could simply change the marker above the Assist Trophy's head to "AT" instead of "P1" or something similar. They already do this with "FP" for amiibos.

 

[AEMehr]

This guy.

I'm sorry, I'm destroying GAME DESIGN for trying to find a workaround for an arbitrary issue?
As Kalim pointed out, Dark Samus and Samus's DS palette look nearly identical. If that is completely okay, then I'm sure having two Dillon's that are exactly the same color will be okay.
And even if, by chance, it still is too confusing, they could simply change the marker above the Assist Trophy's head to "AT" instead of "P1" or something similar. They already do this with "FP" for amiibos.

Dark Samus isn't Samus though.

Dillon and Dillon would look overly confusing and make no sense at all.

 

[Kalimdori]

Dark Samus isn't Samus though.

Dillon and Dillon would look overly confusing and make no sense at all.

These are all Pacman, and you can have all 8 of them on the battlefield at the same time! I find this to be overly confusing, it doesn't make any sense at all!

 

[Substitution]

So the topic is Assists as DLC?
Well before we get whoever on Earth you're proposing, I think we should get Color TV-Game 15. I mean, what could be a better retro rep than the original video game?

 

[Kalimdori]

So the topic is Assists as DLC?
Well before we get whoever on Earth you're proposing, I think we should get Color TV-Game 15. I mean, what could be a better retro rep than the original video game?

If we were to make Color TV-Game 15 a fighter, it wouldn't be Color TV-Game 15 anymore! It would have to be shrunk down, or its paddle range reduced, or be unable to fly around freely!

 

[Kenith]

If we were to make Color TV-Game 15 a fighter, it wouldn't be Color TV-Game 15 anymore! It would have to be shrunk down, or its paddle range reduced, or be unable to fly around freely!

It's been so long, I forgot you were one of the biggest Ridley supporters.
I mean, Color-TV Game 15.

 

[Substitution]

If we were to make Color TV-Game 15 a fighter, it wouldn't be Color TV-Game 15 anymore! It would have to be shrunk down, or its paddle range reduced, or be unable to fly around freely!

Sure. But on the bright side, you get to play as Pong! I think that's more than worth it.

 

[Strofirko]

If we were to make Color TV-Game 15 a fighter, it wouldn't be Color TV-Game 15 anymore! It would have to be shrunk down, or its paddle range reduced, or be unable to fly around freely!

Actually they don't fly around freely and just go up and down.

 

[Substitution]

Actually they don't fly around freely and just go up and down.

And I blame Sakurai bias for that.

 

[Strofirko]

And I blame Sakurai bias for that.

You can't actually,this a limit implemented by the 3DS version.

 

[AEMehr]

These are all Pacman, and you can have all 8 of them on the battlefield at the same time! I find this to be overly confusing, it doesn't make any sense at all!

Pac-Man isn't an assist trophy, he's a playable character.

If Dillon spawns randomly during a fight when you're playing as Dillon, it's going to confuse you moreso than it would with Pac-Man because you could look exactly the same. Pac-Man wears gear to differentiate himself from other Pac-Men.

Besides, we're talking about an assist trophy here. Remember Charizard? Who was a Pokeball Pokemon before he was playable in Brawl? Why isn't he a Pokeball Pokemon anymore? Hmm???
Remember Little Mac? Who was an Assist Trophy in the last game before he was playable in Smash 3DS / Wii U? Why isn't he an assist trophy anymore??
If you're seriously expecting anybody the currently alters gameplay in these games in some form to be DLC, you're blinding yourself with hope. Because it's not gonna happen.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

This is how Ridley could look compared to Bowser if made playable.

 

[Substitution]

Eh, I prefer Kraid.

 

[Kalimdori]

Pac-Man isn't an assist trophy, he's a playable character.

If Dillon spawns randomly during a fight when you're playing as Dillon, it's going to confuse you moreso than it would with Pac-Man because you could look exactly the same. Pac-Man wears gear to differentiate himself from other Pac-Men.

Besides, we're talking about an assist trophy here. Remember Charizard? Who was a Pokeball Pokemon before he was playable in Brawl? Why isn't he a Pokeball Pokemon anymore? Hmm???
Remember Little Mac? Who was an Assist Trophy in the last game before he was playable in Smash 3DS / Wii U? Why isn't he an assist trophy anymore??
If you're seriously expecting anybody the currently alters gameplay in these games in some form to be DLC, you're blinding yourself with hope. Because it's not gonna happen.

I don't expect any of the assist trophies to become playable characters, I'm simply saying that it's not impossible.

There is no "rule" saying that a fighter can't be an Assist trophy and a fighter. It's never happened before, but that doesn't mean it can't.

Perhaps if a playable Dillon was on the field, the AT Dylan would be slightly off color? Or have some sort of aura around it to help differentiate it? (A throwback to the "fake" subspace characters from Brawl perhaps?) There are easy ways to work around this, unless you have some sort of inside look on the Smash development team it's illogical and naive to claim that a dual role cannot happen.

 

[AEMehr]

I don't expect any of the assist trophies to become playable characters, I'm simply saying that it's not impossible.

There is no "rule" saying that a fighter can't be an Assist trophy and a fighter. It's never happened before, but that doesn't mean it can't.

The fact that Charizard and Little Mac are no longer assists should mean something if you ask me.

Perhaps if a playable Dillon was on the field, the AT Dylan would be slightly off color? Or have some sort of aura around it to help differentiate it? There are easy ways to work around this, unless you have some sort of inside look on the Smash development team it's illogical and naive to claim that a dual role cannot happen.

You can be a trophy and a playable character, Mewtwo suggests that is possible. But I highly doubt anybody that, again, effects the gameplay by means of being: an assist trophy, pokeball pokemon, stage hazard (I'm sure background characters are fine), a part of an existing fighter's moveset, an enemy character, and probably even an item in smash tour are out of the running to be dlc.
I mean I want Dillon, dude is like my most wanted first party guy; but he's not getting in if he has a role as an assist trophy. I don't understand why this logic was seen as common knowledge before the game came out, but now that dlc is a possibility, the accepted concept is just thrown out the window for literally no reason.

 

[Chandeelure]

Eh, I prefer Kraid.

Who needs Ridley and Kraid when you can have Crocomire?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Pac-Man isn't an assist trophy, he's a playable character.

If Dillon spawns randomly during a fight when you're playing as Dillon, it's going to confuse you moreso than it would with Pac-Man because you could look exactly the same. Pac-Man wears gear to differentiate himself from other Pac-Men.

Besides, we're talking about an assist trophy here. Remember Charizard? Who was a Pokeball Pokemon before he was playable in Brawl? Why isn't he a Pokeball Pokemon anymore? Hmm???
Remember Little Mac? Who was an Assist Trophy in the last game before he was playable in Smash 3DS / Wii U? Why isn't he an assist trophy anymore??
If you're seriously expecting anybody the currently alters gameplay in these games in some form to be DLC, you're blinding yourself with hope. Because it's not gonna happen.

People are going to say anything is possible unless Sakurai says otherwise, and even then there are going to be people that still say it's possible.

 

[Substitution]

Who needs Ridley and Kraid when you can have Crocomire?

Who'd want to play as a skeleton?

 

[Chandeelure]

Who'd want to play as a skeleton?

Chandelure.

 

[Substitution]

Chandelure.

Smash exists in the Pokemon world? I did not know that.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I wouldn't say there's absolutely no reason the AT concept is thrown out there.
But AEM does have a point with Charizard.

 

[Substitution]

Well, if I had to say something, it could be Charizard's popularity.
And to be fair, this is the first time DLC has come into play.

 

[Kenith]

Well, if I had to say something, it could be Charizard's popularity.
And to be fair, this is the first time DLC has come into play.

Exactly. The reason Little Mac and Charizard aren't helper characters anymore is because there was no reason at the time.

 

[Kalimdori]

The fact that Charizard and Little Mac are no longer assists should mean something if you ask me.
You can be a trophy and a playable character, Mewtwo suggests that is possible. But I highly doubt anybody that, again, effects the gameplay by means of being: an assist trophy, pokeball pokemon, stage hazard (I'm sure background characters are fine), a part of an existing fighter's moveset, an enemy character, and probably even an item in smash tour are out of the running to be dlc.
I mean I want Dillon, dude is like my most wanted first party guy; but he's not getting in if he has a role as an assist trophy. I don't understand why this logic was seen as common knowledge before the game came out, but now that dlc is a possibility, the accepted concept is just thrown out the window for literally no reason.

I'm not saying they will happen, I personally have the same thought process as you, I don't think a character can be playable and an AT/Pokeball/whatever. However that's just what I think, I can't prove it to be true, hence why I'm arguing that it's impossible to claim that it can't happen. Unless Sakurai states any sort of rules about DLC characters (And I doubt he will), pretty much anything is fair game.

Charizard and Little Mac were planned as characters from the get go, so obviously they would be kept in those roles and removed from the AT/Pokeball roster. But with DLC, things might change. Perhaps a reboot of Murasame Castle comes around, Sakurai and his team take a second look at Takamaru and decide to upgrade him to a playable character to advertise the reboot. Maybe they make it so his AT can't show up, maybe they make the AT look different, maybe they remove the AT altogether, I dunno.

This is all just speculation, and again I don't think it will happen, but it could happen.

 

[Kenith]

It amazes me, after everything we've all seen from this game, that people can still speak in absolutes about anything.

 

[Argos]

The first rule of speculation is, of course, "nobody knows nothin'." That being said, I do think Assist Trophies being made playable is fairly unlikely, though obviously not impossible. I'm certainly going to continue to act as if assist trophies/stage bosses/pokeballs and such are off the table for now until one of them is by some chance confirmed.

 

[Kenith]

The first rule of speculation is, of course, "nobody knows nothin'." That being said, I do think Assist Trophies being made playable is fairly unlikely, though obviously not impossible. I'm certainly going to continue to act as if assist trophies/stage bosses/pokeballs and such are off the table for now until one of them is by some chance confirmed.

See? This I can let go, even if I disagree. But stuff "it's not going to happen, get over it, keep dreaming" is unnecessary.

 

[AEMehr]

I admit, I probably am acting a little closed minded in saying what I'm saying.
But this the way things worked in previous game, I doubt DLC will end up changing anything. There's more than one way to advertise a new game in a crossover if they're already an AT or something. If ATs can become playable I've got no issue with that, I'd love to see several of the existing ATs become playable someday. I just see no reason to believe that it is a plausible scenario.

 

[Arcadenik]

Why is it necessary to force the AT/Pokeball/whatever to not show up? You can fight with 8 of the same characters at once, what is so horrible about 9? Not to mention that the Dark Samus Palette Swap and the Dark Samus alt are near identical.



That criteria is entirely made up.

If you are making a game... and you decided that Character X should be playable, why would you make that Character X an Assist Trophy too?

We are never going to see Mario show up as an Assist Trophy... what's the point of that if Mario is already playable?

 

[Kalimdori]

If you are making a game... and you decided that Character X should be playable, why would you make that Character X an Assist Trophy too?

We are never going to see Mario show up as an Assist Trophy... what's the point of that if Mario is already playable?

Very true. However you are talking about making a playable character an Assist Trophy. We were not

 

[Frostwraith]

In order for an Assist be promoted, it would be necessary for said character to stop appearing at all from an Assist Trophy item.

Which would mean removing content worked on for the base game.

DLC is supposed to be an ADD-ON, not an add-on-and-subtract-some.

 

[Kalimdori]

In order for an Assist be promoted, it would be necessary for said character to stop appearing at all from an Assist Trophy item.

Why?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Honestly, the way things are going, further assist trophy promotions will have to wait until next smash, and even IF that happens, I think Takamaru is the only possible option for now.

 

[Frostwraith]

Why?

Characters don't have dual roles.

Would it make sense to have character X summon himself from an Assist Trophy? No, it wouldn't.

There's a reason why Toon Link is replaced by Alfonzo on the Spirit Train. There's a reason why Charizard and Little Mac stopped being summons when they became playable.

The only exception for multiple characters is multiple players selecting the same character, also being forced to use a different color/alt. This is obviously due to gameplay, as it allows any player to pick any character. Would be unfair otherwise.

An exception does not a rule make.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I think it's more a matter of, if there were any chance for said character to be DLC, why would they waste development time to make that character anything other than playable in the first place? Takamaru as a DLC character? Why would they make him an assist trophy if he's just going to be DLC later, they wasted time to make the assist trophy. Ridley as DLC? Then they would have just wasted even more time to make him a stage boss when they clearly know how much people wanted him to be playable.

To put it in simpler terms, you wouldn't build a house only to decide that you want it in a completely different location later.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Why?

Sakurai wouldn't just go through all the time and trouble he would need to convert an assist trophy to a playable character.

 

[Frostwraith]

I think it's more a matter of, if there were any chance for said character to be DLC, why would they waste development time to make that character anything other than playable in the first place? Takamaru as a DLC character? Why would they make him an assist trophy if he's just going to be DLC later, they wasted time to make the assist trophy. Ridley as DLC? Then they would have just wasted even more time to make him a stage boss when they clearly know how much people wanted him to be playable.

To put it in simpler terms, you wouldn't build a house only to decide that you want it in a completely different location later.

This. It's what I was saying, yet fell on deaf ears.

Why would they waste time and resources to implement stuff into the game, only to remove it through DLC? It doesn't make sense at all. It's a practice so nonsensical, it's baffling how people think it could happen.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I don't see anyone getting promoted from assist trophy to playable character in the same game. That should be expected for the next game like what they did with Little Mac. If anything, I see a character with a trophy already in the game as more likely to become playable.