Character Competitive Impressions

[Swamp Sensei]

I think a big problem this time around is that people are expecting the balance of Melee and Brawl where the good were amazing and the bad were awful.

The cast is much more balanced this time around. No one seems terribad.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

No. Is there a single character in this game who cannot reliably and safe reflect gordos? Honestly

any one without a ranged move? xd i just dont try it without being semi ranged. like marth or somthing. i dont try it on puff. xd

*edit another few interesting things about sword fighter mii.
neutral b tornado eats potentent projectiles without clang they just lose while it keeps going making yoshi's eggs virtually useless. wana test this more.

mii sword fighter can also jab cancel.

 

[Ffamran]

any one without a ranged move? xd i just dont try it without being semi ranged. like marth or somthing. i dont try it on puff. xd

Can't you counter if with Marth? As for Jigglypuff... yeah, those stubby arms... Now, Falco - I know he has a Reflector - and Ganondorf on the other hand or rather, other leg, can just boot the crap out of that Gordo.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Can't you counter if with Marth? As for Jigglypuff... yeah, those stubby arms... Now, Falco - I know he has a Reflector - and Ganondorf on the other hand or rather, other leg, can just boot the crap out of that Gordo.

no i ment i would go for it on marth

 

[Shaya]

There were two points you weren't getting
Dedede being reactive vs being forced to shield.

Gordo has nothing to do with either of those things. Pit doesn't really force D3 to shield at all, and Pit's kill issues are pretty massive, if Pit didn't have as strong as a grab game as he does or the lopsided nature of the match up if D3 is forced to approach/is at stock deficit I'd almost consider it hard counter, lol. Pit's juggling prowess requires D3 to mess up, otherwise.

 

[Ffamran]

no i ment i would go for it on marth

Whoops, reading is hard.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Just about any well-timed attack that does more than 2% at base will knock the Gordo back to D3.

As for the match with Pit? Shaya pretty much covered it. Pit lets me do whatever I want just outside of his reach and right inside of mine. D3 shines in these kinds of match-ups where he's able to do that.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Lavani]

Jigglypuff can still hit Gordos back no problem. If you're really afraid of them, just throw out nair and even the weak hit will cleanly knock it back every time.

Gordos really only feel like an effective option when the opponent fears them, and honestly no character has to fear them.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

There were two points you weren't getting
Dedede being reactive vs being forced to shield.

Gordo has nothing to do with either of those things. Pit doesn't really force D3 to shield at all, and Pit's kill issues are pretty massive, if Pit didn't have as strong as a grab game as he does I'd almost consider it hard counter, lol. Pit's juggling prowess requires D3 to mess up, otherwise.

oh yeah pit has problems killing xd iv been arrow gimping so hard as of late lol. (my bais was strong with the last post xd)

okay so i learned that the tornado will never be stoped only can be reflected. projectiles more powerfull than it will clang and then they will both continue there buisness meaning clanging tornado is not an option. this is probably one of the best projectiles in the game.

edit* aww everybodys making me feel bad now. >.< perhaps theres just more i need to learn about the mu anyone care to share a bit more?
every dedede that ever gave me an issue i litterally just never gave him time to breath. not as in be all up in there face. (but i do that though) i just always harrased them with arrows so so they cant cover there landing with gordos. so i can get in again.
the f tilt though xd to stronk. xd

* crap uhg i swear shaya you should just put a point on me for this dp. i swear i thought i was editing.

 

[Shaya]

Stop thinking anything you do on wifi as even remotely telling of how a match up goes unless you have a METRIC TONNE of tournament/live experience to allow you the perspective of differentiating what's real vs what's working because of lag (something hard enough that it's not possible for someone to not make the mistake, no matter how good/experienced they are; Wifi is a poison which the only antidote is never touching it ever again [for anything other than seriouslies with people who have offline experience and only for practise, not for understanding/learning]).

 

[Kofu]

Question about Gordos for Dedede mains that I could probably ask on his boards but whatever. If an opponent deflects a Gordo, can he hit the deflected Gordo back with good timing? Also, does his UAir beat like every DAir?

I think you're short selling Wi-Fi a bit, Shaya. It can promote bad habits and it can discourage good ones, but you don't have to fall into that trap. A lot of notable players have gotten their starts online (Ally and HolyNightmare for two, and I believe Dabuz played Wi-Fi primarily at first). Its main benefit is that you're playing actual people as opposed to computers. I'm not an amazing player by any means but I'd be 10x worse without Wi-Fi for experience. I agree, going to tournaments/smashfests and playing offline as much as possible is best, but that can be challenging at times. If you play Wi-Fi a lot it's important to learn what its limitations are (harder to deal with projectiles, precise inputs becoming harder, etc.) but I think it can be a good way to get better, at least at first.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Stop thinking anything you do on wifi as even remotely telling of how a match up goes unless you have a METRIC TONNE of tournament/live experience to allow you the perspective of differentiating what's real vs what's working because of lag (something hard enough that it's not possible for someone to not make the mistake, no matter how good/experienced they are; Wifi is a poison which the only antidote is never touching it ever again [for anything other than seriouslies with people who have offline experience and only for practise, not for understanding/learning]).

ouch lol. sorry xd but i dont think i ever stated it was wifi. iv even had had some competivie matchez at the last tourny up in canada with toronto joe. its the olny reason why i feel i could have information for this thread. >.<
but if wanted so i guess ill stop posting.

 

[Lavani]

Question about Gordos for Dedede mains that I could probably ask on his boards but whatever. If an opponent deflects a Gordo, can he hit the deflected Gordo back with good timing?

Yes, and if Dedede presses A or R at a certain distance from the Gordo, he'll grab it and throw it again.

He can also eat it, but that's a bad idea outside of comedic value.

 

[Psyant]

Gordos are amazing. I really, really enjoy finding creative ways to use them to kill Dedede.

 

[NairWizard]

Stop thinking anything you do on wifi as even remotely telling of how a match up goes unless you have a METRIC TONNE of tournament/live experience to allow you the perspective of differentiating what's real vs what's working because of lag (something hard enough that it's not possible for someone to not make the mistake, no matter how good/experienced they are; Wifi is a poison which the only antidote is never touching it ever again [for anything other than seriouslies with people who have offline experience and only for practise, not for understanding/learning]).

I think you're assuming that he's an online player. Whoops. Bad Shaya, bad.

On the topic of Dedede: top 8, huh? I....don't see it. Usually I love unorthodox claims, but... what? How does a character who gets juggled and pressured as hard as Dedede manage to get into top 8? Also, his recovery isn't *that* amazing. It has distance, but you can edgeguard it if you're careful.

 

[dean.]

I think the character that struggles most with Gordos is probably Dedede himself. He needs to mostly be waiting/expecting them to hit them back consistently since he's definitely not the type to be throwing out hitboxes at neutral. And most of his best options for hitting them back like utilt are really forced.

Gordos main use is to angle them up and have it so it kind of reaches the enemy as it's about to disappear. Kind of guarding space and trying to provoke a reaction from the opponent.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

@ Psyant I dunno why in the blue blazes that D3 thought it was kosher to chuck those things at Link like that from offstage. Better off letting that tunic-wearing a-hole chuck his toys at you all day and then recovering to the edge or something.

And @ dean. pretty much gets it. Use the Gordo to get a rise out of your opponent, to bait a reaction out of them and make good reads, and don't use it as a zoning tool straight from neutral.

Also, D3 is top 20, not top 8.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Z'zgashi]

So as someone who literally never plays as/against Pit/Dark Pit, what exactly are the major differences between the two?

 

[Lavani]

So as someone who literally never plays as/against Pit/Dark Pit, what exactly are the major differences between the two?

• Dark Pit's arrows do slightly more damage (3.2% vs 3.7% uncharged iirc) but can only be aimed 10° vs 180°
• Pit's sideB does 11% and launches vertically, Dark Pit's does 11.5% and launches diagonally
• Dark Pit's ftilt arbitrarily has significantly less knockback

 

[Dabuz]

DDD is pretty bad, discuss.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont think D3 is horrible, but he's most definitely not top half of the game. Ive kinda dropped him at this point for my better characters, but I think D3 has a lot of really hard top tier match ups, but also has a handful of random match ups where he just bodies people.

 

[Shaya]

ouch lol. sorry xd but i dont think i ever stated it was wifi. iv even had had some competivie matchez at the last tourny up in canada with toronto joe. its the olny reason why i feel i could have information for this thread. >.<
but if wanted so i guess ill stop posting.

My apologies, but my point is something I abide by either way I assumed "Gordos used at the same time as Pit being able to arrow" = wifi scenario.

I think you're short selling Wi-Fi a bit, Shaya.

I didn't say anything which refutes or contradicts your points bar playing other 'offline players', but heck, it's a preference based off of many years of wifi and offline play and crossing the two types of players.. Basing match ups off of wifi is pretty silly. Using it for anything other than 'practise' can be very bad for you.

 

[NairWizard]

seems like one of the most untalked-about characters in the game. It's strange, really. Everyone seems to agree that Yoshi is really good, top tier in Japan, probably top 10 here even though there aren't really any big-name Yoshis out there winning tourneys. This character is really, really good. I don't think he's top 5, so in that I'm probably in the minority (or am I?). But whenever I return to him and check out his matchups, even ones in which he supposedly has a hard time, I think, "oh, shoot, you know, Yoshi has some good tools in this MU. Yeah, it's probably even!" A character with all even matchups down the board can't possibly be anything but super good, though.

The theory lines up quite well for our green dinosaur friend. When you think about it he has some radical tools. N-air, jab, and dash attack are all top of the line, pretty much the best you can get, and those are arguably the most important tools besides grab (which is important since Yoshi's grab is eh, even with the command grab) for a character to have. Eggs are really dominant, perhaps too dominant in certain MUs. All of his other moves have uses. There's no move in Yoshi's kit except perhaps his default side-b which makes me think, "meh, I'd rather have something else."

Why do I talk about his kit and stuff? Because while I think that matchups are even right now, when we see a really good Yoshi emerge in the future who makes use of all of the theoretical tools I'm thinking about right now, those theoretically even matchups will probably shift into Yoshi's favor.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think you're assuming that he's an online player. Whoops. Bad Shaya, bad.

On the topic of Dedede: top 8, huh? I....don't see it. Usually I love unorthodox claims, but... what? How does a character who gets juggled and pressured as hard as Dedede manage to get into top 8? Also, his recovery isn't *that* amazing. It has distance, but you can edgeguard it if you're careful.

Ray_Kalm thinks DeDeDe is a really hard matchup for Ganondorf, so that's probably why he also thinks DeDeDe is really strong.

 

[Luco]

@ Road Death Wheel please feel continue to post in here man, I enjoy your posts and your eager, sincere approach to engaging the topics at hand. You're a cool guy.

Yoshi is a character who's probably ever so slightly out of top 5 region... my sense of nostalgia would have me put him and Ness right next to each other, though I suspect Yoshi is probably 6th-8th best character in the current meta. Fantastically strong... strengths... and few weaknesses with very even MUs for many characters gives me the impression that he's almost going to be the Marth of smash 4 haha. His neutral game is very very good and he can break many character's combo games with like... nair, by itself lol. The removal of a poor shield was a massive buff to him and he's a heavy, yet mobile character in both the air and the ground with reasonably good kill power. What's not to like?

Good ol Yoshi, I always believed in you <3

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ah, here we go, Yoshi main here, reporting for duty! Yoshi IS pretty good, but he has clear cut problems with killing and that he heavily relies on either winning neutral or being able to easily reset to it, and anyone who can hinder that pretty much beats him by default. Thankfully, Yoshi's insane mobility, landing mixups, landing coverage, etc allow him to easily play to his strengths in the majority of match ups, but some top tiers who outclass him or have tools that beat out his mobility and mixups *cough*Sheik*cough* give him problems.

He DOES however seem to have a very strong match up spread. He may not beat any (many?) top tiers, but he only loses to a few, at least imo, mostly just going even with most of them. For example, lemme just throw out a rough top 10 characters estimation (in no order, just a general average consensus of characters that seem to be popular top 10 choices) and Ill give you my opinion on Yoshi's match ups with them. So with that, a rough top 10 (not counting Yoshi, and this isnt my personal opinion, just what I tend to see considered top 10 a lot):


And going down the list:
- Even, maybe slightly in Diddy's favor since Yoshi has a hard time killing. Yoshi, especially now that he has a normal shield, has always been a hard character to lock down and/or grab, so Diddy has a hard time getting in on Yoshi due to Yoshi's safety. Yoshi has the mobility to weave around Diddy's approaches and the air speed/mixups/landing options to reset basically whenever, but Yoshi also lacks a good way to get in on Diddy, and therefore the match ups kinda turns into Yoshi jumping around, throwing some eggs, and Diddy trying to get in on Yoshi and using bananas to try and catch Yoshi's landings. Yoshi's egg lay and nair can catch/punish Diddy for mispacing, and Diddy's tilts, aerials, grab, etc can do the same back to Yoshi. Diddy has slightly more damage output, but Yoshi has better frame traps and is heavier. Yoshi has no kill set ups outside of hard reads/bad spacing on Diddy's part, and Diddy can confirm kills out of his BnB. Both reset to neutral quite well, Yoshi probably slightly better. Overall a very defensive, but close match up.

- Id say slight Yoshi advantage. Maybe even, but Yoshi's neutral is just a little too good for Fox imo. Egg lay and eggs pressure Fox to approach and Fox, while he has stuff safe on block, is slightly outranged and cant reset anywhere near as well as Yoshi. Fox can kill a bit better, but Yoshi actually has viable kill set ups and punishes in this match up.

- Lucario's advantage. Big disjoints and anti juggle options are hard for Yoshi to deal with. Add in the fact that its hard for Yoshi to kill Lucario, and this match up can be difficult. Lucario kills SO MUCH better and also has the disjoints to contend with Yoshi's range and mobility.

- Even, maybe slightly Brawler's favor. Brawler is even faster than Yoshi, literally the only character in the game who is, and he has slightly better combo starters and kill options. Thankfully, egg lay is a god send in this match up as it straight up beats out everything Brawler has if spaced right and allows for safe landings, but Brawler is a lot like a slightly better Yoshi all around, just without a long range command grab to instantly swerve back the momentum. Its actually a really hard match up to describe lol.

- Even. Neutral game is slightly in Yoshi's favor since mobility+eggs+egg lay is better, combo/juggling game is pretty even since Ness does way more damage per hit, but Yoshi can keep Ness in the air/offstage really well for a long while to the point where, even though its not guaranteed, you get roughly the same amount of damage per hit, but Ness kills so better, but Yoshi has gimps. Gimps arent super reliable though, so Ness is still a bit better at killing.

- Even, maybe slight Pikachu's advantage. Pretty even neutral, but Pikachu combos are a bit better and has better kill confirms (Although Yoshi does have okay kill confirms in this match up). I feel like it would be a small advantage for Pika if Yoshi didnt live a long time and made it hard for Pikachu to finish him off. Add in that Yoshi is one of the best characters at resetting against Pikachu's relentless pressure, and I dont see this match ups being too bad.

- Yoshi's advantage. Easily one of Rosy's hardest match ups in the game. Air mobility and easy ways to shut out/kill Luma, plus egg lay beats out Rosalina's everything AND Yoshi is more mobile means Yoshi straight up wins the match up. Rosy isnt a pushover though, its not just easy mode for Yoshi, she still has a solid defensive game and forces Yoshi to be safe about his approaches, but the fact that Rosy just cant separate Luma from herself and Yoshi's egg lay can separate the two while still being out of range of them both means in the end, Yoshi just has all the tools he needs to get around her gameplan.

- Sheik advantage. Needles OP. Needles single handedly make resetting with Yoshi difficult, and Yoshi needs his resets. Thankfully, Yoshi's mobility with egg toss allows him to mix up his landings through needles, but Sheik's ground speed makes doing so also a risk since she can punish an egg toss with a dash in. Yoshi has a hard time getting in on Sheik and gets out damaged by her as well. They both have slight problems killing each other, but Sheik has a better neutral and a better combo game.

- Even, maybe slight Sonic advantage since Sonic kills much better. Not much to say other than the fact that they both reset well, both have a great punish game, and both have similar follow ups after hit. Yoshi has an air grab and projectile, Sonic has insane speed and safety plus more kill power.

- Even. Yoshi's mobility and mix ups allow him to contend with ZSS's mid range zone game, and ZSS has a hard time locking Yoshi down. Both juggle each other quite well, both have a hard time resetting, and both have a somewhat difficult time killing each other.

So overall, imo
Wins:
Even:
Even but maybe loses:
Loses:

 

[Freezie KO]

seems like one of the most untalked-about characters in the game. It's strange, really. Everyone seems to agree that Yoshi is really good, top tier in Japan, probably top 10 here even though there aren't really any big-name Yoshis out there winning tourneys. This character is really, really good. I don't think he's top 5, so in that I'm probably in the minority (or am I?). But whenever I return to him and check out his matchups, even ones in which he supposedly has a hard time, I think, "oh, shoot, you know, Yoshi has some good tools in this MU. Yeah, it's probably even!" A character with all even matchups down the board can't possibly be anything but super good, though.

The theory lines up quite well for our green dinosaur friend. When you think about it he has some radical tools. N-air, jab, and dash attack are all top of the line, pretty much the best you can get, and those are arguably the most important tools besides grab (which is important since Yoshi's grab is eh, even with the command grab) for a character to have. Eggs are really dominant, perhaps too dominant in certain MUs. All of his other moves have uses. There's no move in Yoshi's kit except perhaps his default side-b which makes me think, "meh, I'd rather have something else."

Why do I talk about his kit and stuff? Because while I think that matchups are even right now, when we see a really good Yoshi emerge in the future who makes use of all of the theoretical tools I'm thinking about right now, those theoretically even matchups will probably shift into Yoshi's favor.

I strongly believe Yoshi is top 5, and I keep seeing him ranked there. Dash attack, nair, eggs, jab, etc. are all pretty nasty weapons as you said. The problem is that it doesn't seem like many players are taking him up on his potential and winning tournaments with him. (edit: someone just posted a great yoshi post above me)

If he's as good as we think though, we'll see a player make a big run the dinosaur eventually. I think Apex will be very interesting for characters like Yoshi. We need a big offline tournament to get as much data as possible.

 

[Shaya]

Yoshi is probably the closest thing to a character in this game with an entire kit of medium to high reward, lowish risk moves. Every move is almost "spammable" if that makes sense (well his Brawl playstyle was quite literally eggs and egg lay for 95/100 all the while grabbing the ledge averaged out at once every two seconds across a match [p.s. I hate every yoshi main in Brawl, they all played the same and I played A LOT of them; but don't worry, they lived for that hatred - just like Sonic mains], now he has more moves which are good, dammit).

His weird properties make him trying to learn, but efficient Yoshi play is somewhat disgusting. Dash away eggs counters probably more than half the cast [seriously, right now I'd take Falco's SHDL 'spam' over Yoshi's eggs in a heart beat). He's silly, but [un]fortunately he seems to comes out negative against the likes of Diddy Kong and Sheik just because they're good characters while also not having issues with eggs. We rated him pretty highly for a while early when he had comparators like Mac and Bowser, but even with that in mind he's still feasibly 5th in the game (or around abouts).

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yoshi is hilariously OP in this game. He can ceaselessly surround himself with unpunishable, low-risk high-reward hitboxes and has literally no weaknesses whatsoever. He's pretty small but also quite heavy with fantastic mobility, over-average range, insane damage output and powerful KO moves that are easy to link into from safe moves like jab or egg toss.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Only weakness still being his recovery and unable to kill. Otherwise he'd be top tier.

 

[EgeDal]

Only weakness still being his recovery and unable to kill. Otherwise he'd be top tier.

Yoshi is god tier in this game. nuff said

His weird properties make him trying to learn, but efficient Yoshi play is somewhat disgusting. Dash away eggs counters probably more than half the cast [seriously, right now I'd take Falco's SHDL 'spam' over Yoshi's eggs in a heart beat). He's silly, but [un]fortunately he seems to comes out negative against the likes of Diddy Kong and Sheik just because they're good characters while also not having issues with eggs. We rated him pretty highly for a while early when he had comparators like Mac and Bowser, but even with that in mind he's still feasibly 5th in the game (or around abouts).

I feel like Yoshi and Sheik are so brain dead. Diddy is a little better. I think Rosalina and ZSS are the only OP characters who are not brain dead in this game.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

unable to kill

lol

 

[Nobie]

I think the thing that defines Dedede and his matchups is just the fact that he's so danged hard to kill. Not counting gimps, he's the 3rd-heaviest character in the game (and so 3rd hardest to KO outright horizontally) while being THE most difficult character to KO off the top of the screen. Including active edgeguarding he still has multiple jumps and a Super Armor Up B. The Meta Knight vs. Dedede matchup feels awful because of this, even with Meta Knight's 1.0.4 buffs, as chasing him off stage and hitting him with Neutral Airs for example often feels as if the game is saying, "Congratulations! You did some damage. Now it's time for a Rage-induced Dedede to come back on stage with some scary powerful moves."

Being this heavy didn't mean much in previous Smash games, but having that Rage be a factor makes it feel like Dedede can make a comeback at any time. While I don't think Sheik would have nearly as much trouble fighting Dedede as Meta Knight would, for example, the difficult time she has KOing most of the time can lead to a very strong Dedede. I don't have any experience in this matchup so someone should correct my mistaken assumptions, but I feel like fair juggling Dedede into a Bouncing Fish as Sheik should be easy given how large Dedede is, but that it's not able to net the KO as easily due to again how heavy Dedede is.

 

[EgeDal]

I think the thing that defines Dedede and his matchups is just the fact that he's so danged hard to kill. Not counting gimps, he's the 3rd-heaviest character in the game (and so 3rd hardest to KO outright horizontally) while being THE most difficult character to KO off the top of the screen. Including active edgeguarding he still has multiple jumps and a Super Armor Up B. The Meta Knight vs. Dedede matchup feels awful because of this, even with Meta Knight's 1.0.4 buffs, as chasing him off stage and hitting him with Neutral Airs for example often feels as if the game is saying, "Congratulations! You did some damage. Now it's time for a Rage-induced Dedede to come back on stage with some scary powerful moves."

Being this heavy didn't mean much in previous Smash games, but having that Rage be a factor makes it feel like Dedede can make a comeback at any time. While I don't think Sheik would have nearly as much trouble fighting Dedede as Meta Knight would, for example, the difficult time she has KOing most of the time can lead to a very strong Dedede. I don't have any experience in this matchup so someone should correct my mistaken assumptions, but I feel like fair juggling Dedede into a Bouncing Fish as Sheik should be easy given how large Dedede is, but that it's not able to net the KO as easily due to again how heavy Dedede is.

I once killed a Dedede near the edge at 57% with Marth tipped half charged fsmash, i think that was the most satisfying thing i've ever done in Smash...

About Dedede, i do think he has seriously OP recovery. Look, the thing about heavy characters is, they're heavy and can't be launched easily, but they have stupid recoveries so that keeps the balance, but Dedede case is a lot different, he has really OP tilts, smash attacks, specials, and he also can fly, and have a Pit recovery LOL.

If Dedede is not OP, i don't know who is.

Yes, Sheik.

Yoshi...

 

[meleebrawler]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Whoa.

Whoa.

How did I not know this was a thing.

This changes everything.

Wings and tail not having hurtboxes, eh?

Mewtwo confirmed to not have them either.

 

[Nobie]

I once killed a Dedede near the edge at 57% with Marth tipped half charged fsmash, i think that was the most satisfying thing i've ever done in Smash...

I was thinking that Marth probably has a good matchup against Dedede, just because the killing power of the tippers are so overwhelming.

Also, in regards to Charizard hitboxes, one thing I've noticed is that while he has a lot of parts that aren't vulnerable, his hitbox is still pretty wide horizontally. For example, while Mega Man's Metal Blade will often hit characters once or twice, it'll more often hit Charizard three times. That's 9% damage if fired and 15% if thrown as an item, and on a move unaffected by Stale Moves that is some quick and significant spammable damage.

 

[Shaya]

Marth vs Dedede is lame.
But I haven't played it enough to have a solid opinion.

 

[Wtfwasthat]

The luigi bandwagon has commenced

 

[KlefkiHolder]

BTW, kinda late here but...

Puff can pretty much do whatever she wants to reflect gordos. Nair, Fair, Jab, FTilt... maybe even dair if you feel like it lol

I don't think Gordos are all that good because they're so easy to reflect, which at short range, endangers DDD, maybe midrange as well, and at mid/long range it just nullifies the gordos. DDD isn't fast enough to punish the reflect, in my experience.

I have had some fun kills with the Gordo Hammer tho when I've played DDD.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Yoshi is god tier in this game. nuff said



I feel like Yoshi and Sheik are so brain dead.

Funny enough more than half the older Yoshi's think he isn't even top 8.

lol

More accurately, land a killing move. Where as diddy can just get a grab and insta Uair anyone.