Challenger Approaching!!! ROY!! .PAC UP!!!! 12/7/09 at 3:36 AM EST

[leafgreen386]

Leafgreen, the up smash is extremely annoying.

I think the first hitbox is on frame 12 (the feet), the feet hitbox lasts for 2+ frames.
Then the sword hitbox IIRC lasts for 3? or so frames (from frame 12).
Hit Frame ?1 has it at 21% damage, I -am pretty sure- it's not possible to combo the feet hitbox into the most damaging hitbox.
Hit Frame ?2 has it at 17% (also the tipper is always 17%) damage. You can also combo this from the feet, doing the 21% through two hits (feet + blade).
Hit Frame ?3 has it at 14%, You will most likely get the 3rd hit, doing a total 17% (feet + blade).

Ah, ok. Hm... though if that were true, there would need to be 4 hitboxes... When giza collected the marth data, only three hitboxes came up.

U-smash
hb1
11114628 0205A032
11462802 005A0000
FFFFFFFF

hb2
110E502D 0205A032
0E502D02 005A0000
FFFFFFFF

hb3
11046400 0007D032
04640000 00070000
FFFFFFFF

Those are the 17, 14, and 4 damage hitboxes, but there's no 21 damage hitbox.

But you're saying the hitbox is over by frame 16?

 

[Shaya]

I can assure you there's a singular hitbox that does 21%, unless training mode decided that it would count two consecutive hits as one, and still show me 21%.

It may be on frame 10/11.
As I also am pretty sure it's get "weaker" as time goes by.

 

[camelot]

I tried making a Rarth texture. So far it's just Marth with Roy's clothing:

Features (different from other Rarths):
- Brown sleeves
- Edited gloves
- Gold-trimmed boots with silver buckles
- Silver belt buckle
- Symbol on cape removed
- Blue clasp on cape

Haven't done:
- Sword
- Sheathe
- Hair
- Tiara
- Belt (might not need to change)

Looking at the pics, I think I might need to saturate the textures more (give a little more color), but the pics were saved as jpegs twice, so they did lose some color there. It does look nice in-game.

Opinions, please

edit: thumbnails

 

[MrsSaturnandWatch]

That texture is beautiful o.o

 

[Steelia]

I tried making a Rarth texture. So far it's just Marth with Roy's clothing:

- Symbol on cape removed

What? No symbol yet? :<

Think you can do something with this?

Roy's textures from Melee... Figured they might come in handy.
:>

 

[camelot]

Marth's cape textures are a bit different. The bottom row of pixels on his cape texture stretches all the way down to the end of the cape, so I can't put anything more than about halfway down (meaning I can't put the symbol in the right place, or use those corner parts).

Also, I've done a bit more work on the texture, I'll post pics in a while

 

[Steelia]

Marth's cape textures are a bit different. The bottom row of pixels on his cape texture stretches all the way down to the end of the cape, so I can't put anything more than about halfway down (meaning I can't put the symbol in the right place, or use those corner parts).

Also, I've done a bit more work on the texture, I'll post pics in a while

The corner parts are understandable.
However, you CAN still place his symbol via use of Marth's "Mar07" texture (or, if you extract with ASH, "07Mar07"). Just be sure to apply correct transparency so the symbol shows up.

 

[Deleted member]

wow that texture is awesome. wish I could use textures here.

 

[DarkDragoon]

I tried making a Rarth texture. So far it's just Marth with Roy's clothing:

Features (different from other Rarths):
- Brown sleeves
- Edited gloves
- Gold-trimmed boots with silver buckles
- Silver belt buckle
- Symbol on cape removed
- Blue clasp on cape

Haven't done:
- Sword
- Sheathe
- Hair
- Tiara
- Belt (might not need to change)

Are you going to keep the Tiara as a tiara or are you going to try to make it blend in with the hair?

I kinda started on making a texture to replace the one in use already, but yours looks better than mine xD.
-DD

 

[camelot]

DarkDragoon: I updated it to make it a "hair tiara"

Updated stuff:
- Very slightly darker armor
- Hair changed (note that it's somewhat brighter in the actual game)
- "Hair tiara"
- Angrier eyebrows
- Less "mascara" around the eyes
- Deeper blue eyes

Still need to do sword/sheathe, might need help

 

[camelot]

Now on the subject of actual buffs/nerfs...

I'm finding that b-air is too strong, in kill power and gimping. The damage, too, I think is just a tiny bit too high.

The backward hit of u-tilt has too much knockback. It can kill Mario on FD from 100-110%.

Edit: 1 more thing. D-air sweetspot I think is too easy to hit with. I tried making the sweetspot hitboxes 60% of normal size, and it feels a lot more balanced.

 

[timothyung]

Just a few suggestions for you to make Rarth more perfect:
Can you shorten Marth's hair by making parts of it transparent? That will make him look more like Roy.
And maybe you can add Roy's "Head Gear" to the face of Marth.
Also add the gold patterns to the armour.
Finally add a bit textures to the trousers, and he is perfect.
I checked the texture files and believed that they can be edited. Good luck on editing the texture!

 

[camelot]

I can only shorten the hair in front, but I won't. Mullet = NO.

Head gear? You mean his head band? I was thinking about it

Same with the patterns.

Edit: Pants are fixed to have more detail

 

[VietGeek]

Ah camelot, would see if you could make an alternate version that is more accurate of Roy's real design (Brawl does use current iterations of everyone except for Marth at the time). Roy's Melee design looks to be from FE6 WiP art, since in all official Melee depictions of him outside the game (website, Orchestra CD) he sports the blue cape.

He's a high-res image of FE6 Roy. It seems he has a much simpler plate design than his "WiP self" too, so perhaps you could work on that once you get everything else all sexed up:

Roy Image, rather large

Feel free to keep his Elibe emblem on the back, I think that would look good regardless.

Just a suggestion. Perhaps release two versions. xD

 

[Steelia]

@camelot, would you mind sharing your Marth-Roy's textures? I'd love to test out some modifications to try and make it a more "perfect" Roy-Marth (editing cape, possibly sword, etc.).

 

[camelot]

VietGeek, I am basing him off of his Melee design. I don't know if I want to make 2 versions. Maybe when this one is finished.

Steelia, I might upload it later today

 

[VietGeek]

I'm wondering.

What's Marth's character ID?

I want to try some of leafgreen's ideas...like right now lol.

Especially uair with attack id 0F.

EDIT: Nvm, it's 11 <___<

 

[shanus]

@VietGeek:

11

 

[VietGeek]

@VietGeek:

11

Thanks, just noticed LeafGreen posted it with his usmash hitbox post.

 

[LuigiKing]

Soooo.... goodoldganon... I hope this isn't too front, but would you have my babies please?

 

[VietGeek]

kk, so...is this the 'tipper' uair hitbox, looks like it, orig. dmg 13, new one 6...

110D5028 0005A033
061E0F02 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

At the bold I would then change it to 0F, yes?

Soooo.... goodoldganon... I hope this isn't too front, but would you have my babies please?

He didn't do it alone. You're gonna have to spread the love.

lolpuns

 

[shanus]

yes vietgeek

 

[LuigiKing]

OK serious question though. How do I run this is regular brawl? I use a lot of hacks, but want to play Roy with my untouched characters. Is there an easy way to do this or is it all or nothing? I understand this is meant for Brawl+, but I don't always want to play brawl+, but I always want to play Roy.

Please don't try and convert me to Brawl+ or flame me for <3ing vBrawl, just tell me how to set up roy in vBrawl please ^_^

 

[GHNeko]

OK serious question though. How do I run this is regular brawl? I use a lot of hacks, but want to play Roy with my untouched characters. Is there an easy way to do this or is it all or nothing? I understand this is meant for Brawl+, but I don't always want to play brawl+, but I always want to play Roy.

Please don't try and convert me to Brawl+ or flame me for <3ing vBrawl, just tell me how to set up roy in vBrawl please ^_^

You cant. <_>

 

[LuigiKing]

You cant. <_>

Why? *pouty face*

 

[bleyva]

OK serious question though. How do I run this is regular brawl? I use a lot of hacks, but want to play Roy with my untouched characters. Is there an easy way to do this or is it all or nothing? I understand this is meant for Brawl+, but I don't always want to play brawl+, but I always want to play Roy.

Please don't try and convert me to Brawl+ or flame me for <3ing vBrawl, just tell me how to set up roy in vBrawl please ^_^

roy would be one of the worst characters in vbrawl, no point.

 

[VietGeek]

Also vBrawl stops being vBrawl once it has been modified in some way or form. One could argue about what happens when you add no trip, replay hacks, music hacks, and textures, but the closest thing to that would be EX Brawl.

Moving on, I added 0F for hitstun on the uair tip. It feels better and I noticed I'm getting less punished for landing it, but I can only really land a grab and maybe dtilt. However neither is a legitimate combo in Training Mode, even when SHFF'd, therefore autocanceling.

However, it's likely to have enough frame advantage that there would be no options to get out of that set-up at low percents anyway.

 

[GHNeko]

Why? *pouty face*

Because this Roy is created for Brawl+, his attributes in Brawl would be horrible and he might not even work right. :/

 

[goodoldganon]

I might release a floatier Roy gct that doesn't do anything except add roy to vBrawl. He'll suck but w/e he was designed for Brawl+, just like Falcon and Ganondorf were. Also, though I did most of the prelim work, almost the entire back room has helped me tweak him to get him to his state now.

That texture is great camelot, I'm really liking it and can't wait for it to be finished.

VietGeek, feel free to edit if you want, but I should have a new gct up late tonight or tomorrow afternoon. I plan to:

• Fix U-smash. I don't know how, but I will
• Fine tune F-air
• Fix U-air tip
• Tweak the F-smash frames...AGAIN!
• Give B-air tip some growth

Things people want, but I'm probably not gonna do:

• D-tilt tip. Not every move has to hit in and D-tilt is one of his best moves. Space it right and you won't see the tip as much.
• Nerf B-air. It doesn't combo into anything if the opponent has good DI, and if you can combo into it, it's not at kill percentage.

 

[LuigiKing]

I might release a floatier Roy gct that doesn't do anything except add roy to vBrawl. He'll suck but w/e he was designed for Brawl+, just like Falcon and Ganondorf were.

I'm curious why he would be so horrible in vBrawl? I'm sorry I keep hammering the subject, but why exactly is he unviable unless you're running brawl+? I don't think anyone cares that we adding Roy to vBrawl would make it a build of Brawl+, the people who would care won't be playing Roy anyway.

The point is, a lot of us don't like the character balances and such because we go to tournaments and like to play the game as is 99% of the time. If I'm going to play for lulz it won't be B+, it will be Roy, sword ganon, or wild squirtle.

And I'm not sure I understand why the Roy mods couldn't be run on top of EX brawl or the like. I don't know much about hacking, but how would he not work in vBrawl on his own? Obviously you started out modding only one character, why can't that one be Marth and leave the rest of the cast untouched? I think I'm missing a fundamental point here...

 

[cAm8ooo]

I'm curious why he would be so horrible in vBrawl? I'm sorry I keep hammering the subject, but why exactly is he unviable unless you're running brawl+? I don't think anyone cares that we adding Roy to vBrawl would make it a build of Brawl+, the people who would care won't be playing Roy anyway.

The point is, a lot of us don't like the character balances and such because we go to tournaments and like to play the game as is 99% of the time. If I'm going to play for lulz it won't be B+, it will be Roy, sword ganon, or wild squirtle.

And I'm not sure I understand why the Roy mods couldn't be run on top of EX brawl or the like. I don't know much about hacking, but how would he not work in vBrawl on his own? Obviously you started out modding only one character, why can't that one be Marth and leave the rest of the cast untouched? I think I'm missing a fundamental point here...

First off, his moves wont have hitstun, so all the cool spikes your doin, yea, your going to get punished for them. He was tailored to be a good character in brawl+ not brawl. Look at Captain Falcon, he is good in brawl+ because his character is designed around combos, where as there is no hitstun and basically no combos in vbrawl therefore severely hampering him. Roy would be much the same way, he a character designed around combos and will only be a CF with a worse recovery in vbrawl whose own attacks will get him punished. There really is NO point in playing Roy in vbrawl because you could just play marth who would be a hundred times better in vbrawl.

Think about it, up-air spike, yuuuupp, punished. Dtilt popping you up, yeaa, thats not so good for you either. Some character just dont transition well between games, Roy will follow along the same lines that CF did. He becomes someone who is no longer beast on stage and just as bad off it.

Edit: Face it Neko, i ninja your *** all the time. LOL I love our post tho, we say EXACTLY the same examples and even use some of the same words haha, great minds think alike

 

[GHNeko]

Roy would be horrible in Brawl because his general moveset is taylored to aggression, offense, and in your face tactics where are ******** as hell in Brawl. His moveset would be shut down worse than Marths, and his recovery would be really bad.

The lack of hitstun would render majority of his moveset ineffective and all those spikes he has would be near-pointless.

And his main COMBO starter, Dtilt, would have no real home in Brawl, as it would be a stupid move to use as they would just AD or DJAD or something due to the lack of hitstun.

Characters have movesets that excel with hitstun, but without hitstun, they're trash. See Falcon and Sonic.




EDIT: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF NINJA'D

 

[Dajayman]

Lmao at ninja Kirby...

 

[Steelia]

Steelia, I might upload [Roy-Marth textures] later today

...Any luck with that yet, by chance?
Really don't want to sound like I'm nagging... Just anxious, is all. :embarrass

 

[VietGeek]

Huh I thought this thread would move quicker. o_O

Anyway I was busy for most of the day but wanted to say that while Uair with 0F ID allows him to chain grabs and stuff near the ground, preferably from a shorthop, it still doesn't afford enough hitstun for any true uair chains and is still unsafe to land outside the realm of a shorthop.

This is probably already known but I might as well elaborate on my previous post.

I'll patiently wait for the next official release lol.

 

[Shadic]

I hope it comes with a changelist.

 

[goodoldganon]

I hope it comes with a changelist.

I hope you stop your whining

 

[Shadic]

Psh. I only whine about Link. I could care less about the girly boys with their skinny swords.

Tunic/Dress or GTFO.

 

[goodoldganon]

Such a pain, not sure you guys even really wanted this...can't you just be happy living in mystery?

HITBOX ADJUSTMENTS

Jabs (Non tipped): Down to 12 base from 20. Angle from special 20 to 55.
Jabs (Tipped): Up to 45 base from 30

F-tilt (blade): Up to 12 damage from 9. 75 growth from 70.
F-tilt (tip): Damage down to 10 from 12. Down to 75 growth from 80 and 50 growth from 40. Angle from special 20 to 110.

D-tilt (blade hits) Angle changed from 30 to 85 KBG from 40 to 58 BKB from 40 to 59
D-tilt (tip): Damage dropped from 10 to 7.

F-smash (blade): Damage from 14 to 17. KBG from 70 to 76 and BKB from 60 to 65. Angle from special 20 to 35
F-smash (tip): Damage from 19 to 11. KBG from 70 to 40. BKB from 80 to 55. Angle from special 20 to 110.

D-smash (blade): Damage from 14 to 17. BKB from 70 to 63.
D-smash (At Roy’s feet): Damage from 14 to 20. Angle from special 20 to 110.
D-smash (tip): From 19 damage to 8. Added hitstun ID. Angle from 70 to 160.
That was all the first swing. The second swing is the same junk, just slightly lower damage added or subtracted.

U-smash (tip): Damage changed from 14 to 5 Angle changed from 90 to 270 KBG from 70 to 60 BKB from 40 to 45 Changed hitbox type to flame
U-smash (blade and sides of Roy) Changed hitbox type to flame.

N-air (initial swing): Unchanged
N-air (second swing, on Roy): Unchanged
N-air (second swing, blade hit): KBG from 90 to 65.
N-air (second swing, tip): Damage from 13 to 7. Angle from Special 20 to 115.

F-air (blade): Damage from 10 to 9. KBG from 70 to 10. BKB from 50 to 90. Angle from special 20 to 45.
F-air (tip): Damage from 13 to 5. KBG from 80 to 75 and BKB from 40 to 35. Angle from special 20 to 123.

B-air (blade) Damage from 11 to 14. BKB from 30 to 35. Angle from special 20 to 33.
B-air (tip) Damage from 14 to 12. KBG from 90 to 20. BKB from 30 to 60. Angle from special 20 to 260.

D-air (hilt): 12 damage from 13. BKB from 30 to 35. Angle from special 20 to 270. 
D-air (blade): 12 damage from 13. KBG from 70 to 55. BKB from 40 to 15.
D-air (tip): Switched Marth’s blade d-air hit to the tip.
D-air (VERY tip): Slightly higher values reduced to the values above.

U-air (blade): Damage from 10 to 7. KBG from 70 to 72 BKB from 40 to 35. Added hitstun ID. Angle from 8p to 90.
U-air (tip): Damage from 13 to 6. KBG from 80 to 30. BKG from 40 to 15. Added hitstun ID. Angle from 80 to 270.

Neutral B: There were a few differences between the tip and blade hits, but I just homogenized the move all across. All shield breaks not fully charged do 1% more damage with the fire ID. The fully charged hit does 50 damage from 18 and has the fire ID as well.

Down-B: 12 damage from 8. Added Fire ID.

Side-B: Who cares? It’s getting redone.

Up-B: Up-B has 3 different types of hit. The initial strong hit, any time you connect for about the first half of the move, and any time you connect during the second half. In order their original values were:
-13 Damage, KBG 68, BKB 70. Angle special 20. Slash ID
-7 Damage, KBG 90, BKB 20. Angle special 20. Slash ID
-6 Damage, KBG 90, BKB 20. Angle 74. Slash ID.
The ENTIRE move was given one set value which is as follows:
9 damage, KBG 0, BKB 150. Angle 100. Fire ID.

Dash attack (blade): Angle 45 to 130. BKB from 70 to 75.
Dash attack (tip): unchanged

Get up attack and Grab attack: added fire

FRAME ADJUSTMENTS:
All of Roy’s ALR is set to 40%...
Except U-air, which is 20%
N-air is 25% quicker after frame 19.
Up-b frames 1-3 at 2 times normal speed in order to bypass some invincibility frames
Up-b travels 20% slower after frame 3.
F-tilt twice as fast after frame 11.
F-smash at half speed from frame 8 to frame 11. Then it goes back to normal till frame 19 where is at half speed.
D-tilt 25% faster after frame 21. This does not interfere with the IASA frames (which start on 21) but instead allows faster actions after a d-tilt.
D-air is 20% faster after frame 10. Drops the move from 50 frames to 40.
U-smash is 35% slower after frame 2 till 21 where it is sped up by 4x the normal amount.

All of the moves have 3-4 hitboxes, some as many as 8. Sorry, I'm not detailing EVERY single one cause frankly the difference were so minuscule. Set up tomorrow afternoon. I'm tired and don't feel like it tonight.

 

[Wolfric]

Tunic/Dress or GTFO.

Lol, what freak would love to have that? *Zelda main*