Bidoof Academy - Pokémon Trainer Q+A Thread

[Miles.]

When someone is shielding just jump INTO them and land bulletseeding inside them = ****.

Ledge hop bulltetseed = ****.

Shield on the edge and when they jump or attack your shield bulletseed = ****.

 

[Miles.]

When someone is shielding just jump INTO them and land bulletseeding inside them = ****.

Ledge hop bulltetseed = ****.

Shield on the edge and when they jump or attack your shield bulletseed = ****.

 

[Bomber7]

ledge hop bullet seed? hmm I'll try that. I never thought of that with IVy, I always did ledge hop attacking with charizard.

 

[Toby.]

It can be pretty awesome. I have a bad habit of doing it in grand finals and getting owned for it

 

[Miles.]

ledge hopped bulletseed. they are never reaady.

also bs invinceability frames and the edgeinvinceabilty = raaape

 

[Tesh]

Thanks I should try landing it on people in their shields. Also wondering, does the "pop-up" hit always hit them left or right? Or does it bring them towards ivysaur? What I want to know is, if someone is just above me, will the pop up but them under me and if I can just above, will the pop up put them right above me.

 

[shinyspoon42]

With BS, it pulls in from the side depending on how close your opponent is. Its stronger if they're right next to you, and often will pull them past the stream of seeds. If they are above it won't pull or push them. Its really just the best option out of a fast-falled nair, as it racks up lots of damage and is a safe and chainable option. Ledge jumping it is great, but only very rarely, use it repeatedly and you will get punished. If you u-throw it's better to punish with uair, as you have a kill chance and with u-throw they will be too high to take much damage from BS anyways. Still, BS is so so sexy.

 

[shinyspoon42]

What is each pokemons best options out of a grab? Right now I am doing D-throw with squirtle as a kill move, or just to knock them into the air. With Ivy I use D-throw and chase with a jump and vinewhip, delaying for mindgames when they try to airdodge it. With Charizard I use D-throw to get them off the edge at a low height so I can try to gimp with fair or get a spike with dair. Whats a good idea from grabs? Do any of them have grab release shenanigans?

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

 

[Steeler]

squirtle has guaranteed jab out of ground breaks on almost all characters. some exceptions are luigi and ike. this is EXCELLENT and often better than a throw at mid to "before dthrow kill" percents because the pummels + three jabs will refresh your stale moves very well. squirtle can hydrograb to the edge and then fall off the stage as the opponent is released to put you in a good position to gimp. lots of different applications with this, try your own. it's pretty promising, but you can get gimped yourself if you aren't careful. at low percents, you probably want to stick to uthrow -> utilts. uthrow is the most damaging and it's very easy to get those utilts up. bait their air dodge/attack and punish. fthrow is kind of cool when you are fatigued because it can pseudo chaingrab some opponents at 0%. never ever use dthrow unless you plan on killing/switching with it. otherwise use common sense. fthrow and bthrow when it would put them off stage and set up a gimp. stuff like that.

ivysaur dthrow and uthrow are the best for setups. at 0, i think bullet seed is inescapable if they don't horizontally di the uthrow. particulary against fatass characters. baited uair/usmash work well out of both, and vine whip can work out of dthrow...if you are lucky. fthrow i dislike, i don't find anything special about it. i doubt it can "chaingrab" like squirtle's when fatigued but its possible. the setups from dthrow/uthrow are going to almost always be better anyway. at killing percents, uthrow and bthrow both kill at similar ranges (150+ fresh), it's just a matter of which way you think is going to expect and di, and then use the other one so the di works against them. ideally. also ivysaur can release grab squirtle to the end of the stage, lol. maybe meta knight but it's doubtful. not like you could follow up with anything anyway...

charizard is pretty similar to squirtle in his usage of throws. at 0, he can link a bthrow into an fthrow against all or almost all of the cast. good for getting them offstage right away. uthrow sets up into beautiful uair juggle traps, and utilt/usmash help in that regard as well. dthrow really does not kill well at all if they di up, but it's probably your best shot. that upward di can help you and get a uthrow kill, but its unlikely.

hope i helped.

 

[Toby.]

I agree with Steeler. I always agree with Steeler.

Although from 0 you can link a forward throw into a grab with ivysaur. My ideal grab setup from 0 would probably be fthrow -> dthrow -> uair. You could also substitute the uair for a nair if you aren't sure when they'll airdodge, or a pivot grab if you're cheeky and want to let them land again.

In conclusion, Steeler is a cool cat.

 

[Tesh]

I was playing a 2v2 yesterday and got knocked off stage as ivysaur. Of course immediately I was followed off stage. I got knocked under smashville and when i double jumped and tethered, ivysaur swung all the way around the ledge and landed on the stage. I never actually got to the ledge with ivy's body. She went in a near circle and landed on the stage with no lag. Any explanations would be welcome, I don't remember who what character I was fighting though but I don't expect it was a windbox.

 

[shinyspoon42]

Thanks Steeler, that helps a lot. Any suggestions on how to avoid getting spiked? It gets me alot...

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Squirtle, try to use Waterfall only in a pinch or when you can hit ypur oppenent away who is trying to gimp/spike you. They have to be in front, but waterfall has great range.

Ivysaur: Lol, just tether back to the stage, they should really be edgehogging you.

Charizard: Try to avoid the spike. If you cannot, then try and time the SA frames of Charizard's fly if you can.

 

[T-block]

I was playing a 2v2 yesterday and got knocked off stage as ivysaur. Of course immediately I was followed off stage. I got knocked under smashville and when i double jumped and tethered, ivysaur swung all the way around the ledge and landed on the stage. I never actually got to the ledge with ivy's body. She went in a near circle and landed on the stage with no lag. Any explanations would be welcome, I don't remember who what character I was fighting though but I don't expect it was a windbox.

I read about something like that on the ZSS boards. Maybe check them out?

 

[Steeler]

yeah waterfalling early is nice if they are being aggressive. just make sure you won't kill yourself. waterfall has very surprising range.

as charizard, against characters that you do not want to recover high against (like mk) i like to put myself in the best position to recover from fly. so almost directly under the ledge. then if they try to spike or whatever, activate fly when they are near you so you pre empt their attack and grab the ledge anyway. if they do attack, you have super armor. if they are just going to hang off the ledge, then burn your second air jump (if you hopefully still have it, you should save it as long as possible) so their invincibility won't protect them from fly. in general you want to di high so you can save that jump. it gives you options.

now if they are spiking you where fly would suicide you, that extra jump is probably your best tool against aggressive edgeguards because you can have a more variable recovery path than most characters. just jump + air dodge works. fast fall low then use your jumps + fly to recover if you can tell you'd be in a bad spot. if you are at even level with the opponent, try b reversal rock smash (use it earlier than their attack) or fair.

you are big and kinda average speed in the air, but as long as you have at least one jump left, you should be able to avoid it.

tesh i don't really understand what happened lol

toby makes me warm inside >w<

 

[Tesh]

You don't understand my explanation of what I saw or you don't know how it happened?
Basically Ivy was under the stage and I swung around onto the stage without having to snap to the ledge.
Also I got a question about Squirtle's amazing crouch/crawl. I was playing against an Ike and when he used quick draw, all I had to do was duck and it whiffed with the little red spark. Is there anything else I can dodg simply by ducking. Aside from the obvious straight path projectiles.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Hey guys, I tried doing some insta hydroplanes. I messed up and did a turn around fair, it looked like he warped to one side.

Also, how do you fell about Ivysaur's Bair possibly gimping someone?

How abou Charizard Juggling with anything Umove?

 

[T-block]

Can you explain the Squirtle thing more? Sometimes when you miss the smash command and just hit jump instead after the pivot, Squirtle sorta slings forward in a jump instead of sliding. It's actually pretty useful to get behind shields. I use Ivy's b-air to gimp quite a bit, but only on chars with bad recoveries. Ganondorf, Falco and Luigi come to mind.

 

[Tesh]

Does Charizard's fire breath unstale attacks more than just 1/9 spots? Does it trigger fatigue more than once the longer you hold it? If it doesn't under normal circumstances, does it trigger multiple times if someone escapes and for some absurd reason jumps back in?

 

[Steeler]

tesh the whole flamethrower counts as just one move as long as you continue to hold it. you have to end it and start again to take up another spot in the stale moves queue

 

[shinyspoon42]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtWdDuRHoJ4&feature=related Wth happened in that video?


Also, after spot dodging what is each pokemons best option?
after a roll?
out of a shield?

tyvm in advance.

 

[9Kplus1]

Is there any practical use Charizard's DSmash? It's laggy, the hitbox isn't that huge and has a pretty low potential to kill anything.

 

[T-block]

Not really... it can punish rolls if you're sure they're gonna roll, but he has better and safer options. I've been messing around with something similar to the Buuman trap that D3's use. Doesn't work very well though, and you'd have to have them miss a tech near the edge too... xP

 

[Steeler]

actually, the "buuman trap" was the first thing that came to mind (although i wasn't aware that ddds use it as a technique). i saw ad do it in a vid once and was impressed, even though its a simple idea

it works better with zard imo, his dsmash actually has great range (extends past the earthquake) but only hits grounded opps. not a problem if it's a techchase situation.

 

[T-block]

I can see two issues though =\

D3's d-throw is perfect for setting something like this. I can't think of any moves that Zard can use to set up a techchase as easily. Also, Buuman says the leanback on D3's d-smash charge is important for avoiding their get-up attack option. Charizard doesn't have a leanback, but maybe his d-smash has more range to compensate?

I really didn't spend enough time testing lol

 

[Steeler]

well yeah you aren't going to run into this situation in every match but when you do, for a moment, you are very happy with charizard's dsmash.

and then you get sad again.

yeah charizard has more range on his than ddd does so it does compensate somewhat.

 

[Magik0722]

can someone tell me what the buuman trap is?

 

[Toby.]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224054



The problem with zards dsmash is that its much harder to time than d3's. Still, it can be a useful attack given that it has better range than most of his stuff.

 

[T-block]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o4v7-r10C8

is the video he has up. Watch at 1:05, 1:37. It's basically a d-smash that punishes a failed tech, and hits if they do normal get-up, attack get-up, and roll in either direction.

 

[Magik0722]

Hmm pretty sure they can roll the instant the dmash is released to avoid the hit

 

[Toby.]

Its inescapable.

Check out the thread. The idea is that d3 only starts charging the dsmash when the opponent begins to move. As long as he waits for you to move he will always hit.

 

[T-block]

Yeah they've tested it a lot...it's a guaranteed hit. I was thinking f-throw into a wall might set this up for Zard. It'd be more practical than trying to get it near an edge if it works.

 

[shinyspoon42]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtWdDuRHoJ4&feature=related Wth happened in that video?


Also, after spot dodging what is each pokemons best option?
after a roll?
out of a shield?

tyvm in advance.

skipped.

 

[Ryusuta]

Shiny, that's an impossible question to answer with ANY character without context.

 

[M.K]

I know how to Hydroplane when turning around. I can do it almost every time, however, when I watch some videos, I see that Squirtle can perform a Hydroplaned USmash while running continuously in one direction. Instead of shellshifting backwards and doing it, they use start sliding very fast in the direction they were originally moving.
How do you perform this trick?

 

[T-block]

You have to input the u-smash immediately after you shellshift so that you don't actually turn around. Go to training mode and set the speed to 1/4. Run in one direction, then hit back on the control stick and immediately hit up+A.

 

[Steeler]

i do it by tapping the control stick back at a 45 degree angle so the game reads it as both a pivot and the up part of up smash. it's easier imo.

 

[T-block]

...

i will definitely try that out

you could have told me earlier -_-

xP

 

[Steeler]

i've been telling people to do it this way for like half a year lol

 

[Toby.]

I did it steelers way for a while. That was ages ago. It was pretty good.