Are you happy that Dark Pit made it in?

[grizby2]

Let's be honest, though. There are people who criticise Dark Pit because he's "just a dull clone of Pit" and maintain that he deserves better. There are people who criticise Dark Pit because "Sakurai is just being biased" and maintain that it's alright though because at least he didn't take up too much dev time and effort with a new moveset.

I don't want to target you specifically, I'm just using your post as a good example of the dichotomy here. Sakurai is going to get a hell of a lot of flak either way. He made a judgement call and he went with it. I think the least we can do is just accept his decisions and enjoy the game all the same.

I understand.
im just saying. if you're going to make a character with similar design, at LEAST make that character play differently. im pretty sure dark pit did some cool stuff on his own that was separate from pit.

that's why people are mad. and its a pretty good reason for them to be upset.

 

[Wintropy]

I understand.
im just saying. if you're going to make a character with similar design, at LEAST make that character play differently. im pretty sure dark pit did some cool stuff on his own that was separate from pit.

that's why people are mad. and its a pretty good reason for them to be upset.

Exactly. And that's just the thing: people are mad because it's different than what they wanted. If he was a totally unique character, there would still be a furore because people would claim Sakurai wasted too much dev time and effort when they could have been used for somebody else.

I don't agree with either argument, personally, so take all of this with many grains of salt. All I'm saying is, it's a two-way stream: Sakurai knew he'd upset some fans and please others, so he just took the path of least resistance and tried to offer us the "best of both worlds" approach. Just be thankful he's in the game at all and appreciate the good things about him.

 

[KieRanaRan]

Here's the thing though:

What are Dark Pit's alt colours going to look like? If he's not in black then it makes the whole 'Dark' thing pretty redundant.

There is no way in hell he should have his own slot. Kid Icarus as a series has 3 games, and somehow this warrants 3 characters? Nah man, bad choice all round.

 

[FancySmash]

Well, let me review. I'm a bit upset that Wolf was cut for nothing. I'm a bit upset that Lucas was cut for nothing. Since these are semi-clones, I feel that Dark Pit did keep them from getting in. (I feel bad for Mewtwo, Ridley, Ice Climber, and {insert 3rd DK rep here] fans, but I know Dark Pit has nothing to do with them.)

I am a little irked that Dark Pit made it in. I probably should be with Dr. Mario too, but at least Mario warrants a lot of characters, and we get Melee Mario back. Speaking of melee:

What? Add Dedede and Metaknight? Nah, don't want to over represent Sakurai's franchise.

Over represent KI with items, enemies, assist trophies, and playable characters galore? ALRIGHT!

Fine. Kirby see's who's loved more.

Honestly, it doesn't really bug me how much KI content we have, it's just that it's getting better treatment than Kirby, who was the creators poster child first...

Sorry for the over use of pictures.

 

[Wintropy]

Here's the thing though:

What are Dark Pit's alt colours going to look like? If he's not in black then it makes the whole 'Dark' thing pretty redundant.

Black, indigo, navy, swamp green, burnt umber, strong grey, deep teal, white in response to Pit's black colours...

Honestly, there's a lot of potential there. Take any colour you like and make it a deeper, more intense shade - Dark Pit.

There is no way in hell he should have his own slot. Kid Icarus as a series has 3 games, and somehow this warrants 3 characters? Nah man, bad choice all round.

I still don't get this argument. "Kid Icarus has too few games to have so many characters" - that has nothing to do with it. Pit and Palutena are series mainstays and the iconic protagonists of the entire mythos. They had a successful and incredibly detailed revival in Uprising, giving them plenty of characterisation and moveset potential that Sakurai himself acknowledges was in no small part inspired by his intention to include such elements in Smash 4.

Yet Dark Pit, a clone, is added to pad out the roster and suddenly there's too many characters here?

Each to their own, my friend, each to their own - but I still think the "Kid Icarus isn't big / popular / successful / deserving enough to have their new characters in Smash 4" argument is innately irrational and contextually fallacious.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

@wintrophy is right.Dark pit deserves to be on the roster just as much as anybody.He's a nintendo character from a nintendo franchise if i'm right this is a fighting game about nintendo franchises.Anybody from nintendo can be in.Dark pit is not a bad choose.I think people need to stop complaing and just play the game.If you don't like DP.DONT USE HIM.SIMPLE. I for the other hand is going to be mining dark pit

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Yeah, that's what I've been saying...

So you didn't get the joke about Dark Palutena then.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Absolutely Not

 

[Chauzu]

Having played 10 games with Dark Pit now I must say yes, since he's better than Pit imo he serves a purpose.

 

[Hitzel]

Well, let me review. I'm a bit upset that Wolf was cut for nothing. I'm a bit upset that Lucas was cut for nothing. Since these are semi-clones, I feel that Dark Pit did keep them from getting in.

hahaha wow, people actually think that...

Sakurai explicitly said the clones started out as alternative customes and were given slight tweaks. Where's the hate for wireframe Mac and all of the other alternate costumes?

Anyway... I'm elated that characters like Dark Pit and Jigglypuff are in so I can make it personal when I assassinate people who have sour attitudes about the roster.

 

[Irarius]

i was now seeing dark pits entire skillset. i must say its just marths final smash in form of a shot... it is on my opinion even worse than the final smash from pit and his looks amazing.... what a downgrade

 

[Mariohuge]

Unlike thousands of people in this thread, I'm perfectly fine with Dark Pit in. I'd rather we get Hades, but clones are certainly easier to put in. Plus I was a huge fan of Uprising, so seeing more content from it certainly pleases me. Maybe it has a bit much for smash run enemies, but otherwise I'm completely fine with all its content.

 

[fenyx4]

From what I've been reading, he seems to be an outright Pit clone (with some weapon "variations")... If that's the case, no, I'm definitely not happy that he made it in (regardless of all the promotion that Kid Icarus series seems to get in Super Smash Bros. 4). If he had a unique (or at least one that tries to be unique) moveset, this would be a different story. The only good thing about Dark Pit's inclusion is that regular Pit has 8 new palette swaps to use if/when Dark Pit gets cut for Super Smash Bros. 5. I feel that whatever time and resources (as minimal as they were) that were dedicated to making Dark Pit as a clone character could have been used for something better in game, whether an improved custom-move implementation, more background characters for a given stage, or just more Mii costumes or equipment. >_>

 

[Comet7]

Well here was my reaction.

1. Why the hell is he in?
2. Why the hell does he deserve it?
3. Why not ANY OTHER CLONE?

....Damn, I'm starting to miss the Chrom thread... This is...ugh.

I'm pro-clones, but Dark Pit is absurd.

 

[LancerStaff]

Here's the thing though:

What are Dark Pit's alt colours going to look like? If he's not in black then it makes the whole 'Dark' thing pretty redundant.

There is no way in hell he should have his own slot. Kid Icarus as a series has 3 games, and somehow this warrants 3 characters? Nah man, bad choice all round.

Darker colors mostly, and a white color to complement Pit's black. Both keep the hair and wing colors.

Well here was my reaction.

1. Why the hell is he in?
2. Why the hell does he deserve it?
3. Why not ANY OTHER CLONE?

....Damn, I'm starting to miss the Chrom thread... This is...ugh.

I'm pro-clones, but Dark Pit is absurd.

Like who? Chom? Alph? Really, who'd be better as a straight-up clone like this? Dixie and Dark Samus would likely get stuck in the Ganondorf situation if they were here instead, so why not save it for characters that make sense to be clones like Lucina and Dr. Mario?

 

[3DSplayer]

At first I disliked that Dark Pit was in the roster, but then I read that he is different than regular pit...and so he gets a slot, which isn't "wasted", I guess. I assume Sakurai added Dark Pit similarly to how Lucina got in. He was once an alternate costume, but had differences that showed he can be a separate character.

 

[Comet7]

Like who? Chom? Alph? Really, who'd be better as a straight-up clone like this? Dixie and Dark Samus would likely get stuck in the Ganondorf situation if they were here instead, so why not save it for characters that make sense to be clones like Lucina and Dr. Mario?

anybody not from an already over represented franchise

 

[---]

Am cool with his inclusion, but I am annoyed that he's a direct clone rather than a semi-clone. Why he doesn't use his staff for everything is beyond me, especially since his artwork/trophy have him with it rather than the Silver Bow.

 

[LancerStaff]

anybody not from an already over represented franchise

So Alph, a complicated and difficult to fight character. Suuure.

And it's not about series representation, it's about characters that people want to play as.

Am cool with his inclusion, but I am annoyed that he's a direct clone rather than a semi-clone. Why he doesn't use his staff for everything is beyond me, especially since his artwork/trophy have him with it rather than the Silver Bow.

Gannondorf uses his sword in a custom, so there's still hope.

 

[Aenglaan]

My problem with Dark Pit isn't necessarily that he's a playable character, it's that he had the potential to be completely different from Pit. Seriously, he's from Kid Icarus Uprising, a game with a **** ton of weapons. Why couldn't he have used different weapons from Pit? I get that Sakurai thinks that the series shouldn't exclusively be about playable characters, but its irritating to have newcomers that are pretty much just a copy of another character.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

Absolutely no. I don't loathe Dark Pit because he is a clone. I loathe his addition because KI didn't need three playable characters. Two was more than enough. Palutena's inclusion is great, but Dark Pit, no just no. To add insult to injury, the DK series gets absolutely NOTHING for newcomers. Now that is just pathetic.

 

[LancerStaff]

Absolutely no. I don't loathe Dark Pit because he is a clone. I loathe his addition because KI didn't need three playable characters. Two was more than enough. Palutena's inclusion is great, but Dark Pit, no just no. To add insult to injury, the DK series gets absolutely NOTHING for newcomers. Now that is just pathetic.

Do you really want Dixie to be stuck in a Ganondorf situation? I sure don't.

 

[DarkChronos]

Everybody will hate Dark Pit until he's top tier, h4h4h4h4h4h4

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

From what I've been reading, he seems to be an outright Pit clone (with some weapon "variations")... If that's the case, no, I'm definitely not happy that he made it in (regardless of all the promotion that Kid Icarus series seems to get in Super Smash Bros. 4). If he had a unique (or at least one that tries to be unique) moveset, this would be a different story. The only good thing about Dark Pit's inclusion is that regular Pit has 8 new palette swaps to use if/when Dark Pit gets cut for Super Smash Bros. 5. I feel that whatever time and resources (as minimal as they were) that were dedicated to making Dark Pit as a clone character could have been used for something better in game, whether an improved custom-move implementation, more background characters for a given stage, or just more Mii costumes or equipment. >_>

Except that that is not how it works. Dark Pit's absence wouldn't mean that other content would magically take up his place.
There's a reason games have a planning phase and development stages where they decide what to include and how to implement it. No matter how you want to look at it, No Dark Pit wouldn't equal improved custom moves or whatever, don't know why you are even drawing a connection there.

 

[DownWitDaWaveDash]

The problem I have with Dark Pit as a clone is that we certainly could've had his entire moveset with its slight differences, be custom options for pit.

Did we really need a slightly different arrow? A slightly different Forward b? As a separate character?

Its like them showing off mario's custom move which turns fireball into iceball, and then a character reveal called Ice mario.

I think that even if it took them an hour to make him, that hour couldve gone to better use somewhere else.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I don't really have a reason to dislike his inclusion.

 

[JavaCroc]

I voted "No" initially, although I'm still unsure. I don't mind his individual presence that much - he's a last-minute clone with only his Final Smash as an absolute difference between him and Pit, so I doubt much development time was put into him compared to other characters.

The only reason I still can be annoyed by him is because he is part of the greater representation of Kid Icarus in this game. I understand Sakurai wants to advertise his game, but I don't think he needed three characters, one-two (I can't remember) assist trophies, several Smash Run enemies, multiple items, and new stages on 3DS and Wii U to promote the series. We don't even know if anyone at Nintendo, Sakurai included, has intentions to continue the series anymore. It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for DK being mercilessly shafted for new content on the 3DS game (we'll wait and see for the Wii U).

Probably should have put "yes" since I'm not frustrated with his presence on the CSS anymore. It's more how he is, save Palutena, the ultimate example of Sakurai's bias and willingness to throw as much KI content as possible into the game.

 

[LancerStaff]

The problem I have with Dark Pit as a clone is that we certainly could've had his entire moveset with its slight differences, be custom options for pit.

Did we really need a slightly different arrow? A slightly different Forward b? As a separate character?

Its like them showing off mario's custom move which turns fireball into iceball, and then a character reveal called Ice mario.

I think that even if it took them an hour to make him, that hour couldve gone to better use somewhere else.

It's looking like DP has a bunch of little differences in normal moves like Dr. Mario, but we're having trouble finding them due to the changes to Pit. If Dr. Mario has a reverse Nair, DP could have a reverse Bair.

I voted "No" initially, although I'm still unsure. I don't mind his individual presence that much - he's a last-minute clone with only his Final Smash as an absolute difference between him and Pit, so I doubt much development time was put into him compared to other characters.

The only reason I still can be annoyed by him is because he is part of the greater representation of Kid Icarus in this game. I understand Sakurai wants to advertise his game, but I don't think he needed three characters, one-two (I can't remember) assist trophies, several Smash Run enemies, multiple items, and new stages on 3DS and Wii U to promote the series. We don't even know if anyone at Nintendo, Sakurai included, has intentions to continue the series anymore. It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for DK being mercilessly shafted for new content on the 3DS game (we'll wait and see for the Wii U).

Probably should have put "yes" since I'm not frustrated with his presence on the CSS anymore. It's more how he is, save Palutena, the ultimate example of Sakurai's bias and willingness to throw as much KI content as possible into the game.

Our only other real option was Alph, and Olimar is a nightmare to reprogram in Brawl, if I recall. Alph might of taken too much time, so Sakurai went with the safe option.

 

[Wintropy]

I voted "No" initially, although I'm still unsure. I don't mind his individual presence that much - he's a last-minute clone with only his Final Smash as an absolute difference between him and Pit, so I doubt much development time was put into him compared to other characters.

The only reason I still can be annoyed by him is because he is part of the greater representation of Kid Icarus in this game. I understand Sakurai wants to advertise his game, but I don't think he needed three characters, one-two (I can't remember) assist trophies, several Smash Run enemies, multiple items, and new stages on 3DS and Wii U to promote the series. We don't even know if anyone at Nintendo, Sakurai included, has intentions to continue the series anymore. It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for DK being mercilessly shafted for new content on the 3DS game (we'll wait and see for the Wii U).

Probably should have put "yes" since I'm not frustrated with his presence on the CSS anymore. It's more how he is, save Palutena, the ultimate example of Sakurai's bias and willingness to throw as much KI content as possible into the game.

As was pointed out in another thread entirely, it's Sakurai's way of ensuring that Kid Icarus isn't just abandoned and forgotten in the future. There's a lot of content that he developed with the essence of both games inspiring him back and forth, so it's not surprising that the Kid Icarus content translates well into Smash 4 and vice-versa.

Uprising is a huge game. Absolutely massive. There's an entire mythos there was developed from very, very little canon material. Sakurai wants to make sure that there's plenty to work with in future games, be they new Kid Icarus installments or the next generations of Smash. I'm pretty much biased myself, insofar as I love Kid Icarus, but I think it's a bit unfair to label Dark Pit as exemplifying Sakurai's purported bias just because he happens to be a Kid Icarus character that took about twenty minutes and some under-the-couch-seats change to make.

 

[volbound1700]

How come Donkey Kong and Metroid (two large Nintendo franchises) get two characters while a series with only one game in the last 20 years gets 3 characters?


If you are going to do a straight up clone, then how about Funky Kong clone of DK. DK series doesn't get the respect it deserves. I think I know why, it was originally thought up by Rare and not Nintendo. Nintendo is so arrogant they won't give credit to Rare's creation.

DK Tropical Freeze made more money for Nintendo alone than the entire Kid Icarus series.

 

[JavaCroc]

As was pointed out in another thread entirely, it's Sakurai's way of ensuring that Kid Icarus isn't just abandoned and forgotten in the future. There's a lot of content that he developed with the essence of both games inspiring him back and forth, so it's not surprising that the Kid Icarus content translates well into Smash 4 and vice-versa.

Uprising is a huge game. Absolutely massive. There's an entire mythos there was developed from very, very little canon material. Sakurai wants to make sure that there's plenty to work with in future games, be they new Kid Icarus installments or the next generations of Smash. I'm pretty much biased myself, insofar as I love Kid Icarus, but I think it's a bit unfair to label Dark Pit as exemplifying Sakurai's purported bias just because he happens to be a Kid Icarus character that took about twenty minutes and some under-the-couch-seats change to make.

Admittedly, I have not played KI:Uprising yet, so I'm in much less of a position to comment on him or the series. I would just hope then that people and Nintendo do take notice of KI, and continue expanding the series into the future. I'd hope all of this KI content isn't for naught.

I agree with Lancerstaff as well that Dark Pit was the better option than Alph. At least Dark Pit has great potential for updating his moveset in future SSB games, whenever those may come.

 

[LancerStaff]

How come Donkey Kong and Metroid (two large Nintendo franchises) get two characters while a series with only one game in the last 20 years gets 3 characters?


If you are going to do a straight up clone, then how about Funky Kong clone of DK. DK series doesn't get the respect it deserves. I think I know why, it was originally thought up by Rare and not Nintendo. Nintendo is so arrogant they won't give credit to Rare's creation.

DK Tropical Freeze made more money for Nintendo alone than the entire Kid Icarus series.

Funky wasn't a costume.

 

[volbound1700]

Honestly, I would have rather seen them delay the game and add more content. There is apparently going to be nothing of a single player mode on the Wii U. Characters removed from Wii U version for 3DS verion (Ice Climbers).

I say delay the game and fix it. Put in Dixie Kong, Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Mewtwo. Add a decent single player mode like Melee but have a full level from every series and not just Zelda and Mario.

With Dark Pit, why don't we just add?

Dark Zelda (from Twilight Princess)
Metal Mario
Shadow Mario
Baby Peach
Mr. L
Albino Donkey Kong
Pichu


Yay great roster full of clones.

 

[volbound1700]

Funky wasn't a costume.

No I said I would have rather had him as a clone than Dark Pit. At least we would have a representative from a large and relevent series!

 

[LancerStaff]

Honestly, I would have rather seen them delay the game and add more content. There is apparently going to be nothing of a single player mode on the Wii U. Characters removed from Wii U version for 3DS verion (Ice Climbers).

I say delay the game and fix it. Put in Dixie Kong, Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Mewtwo. Add a decent single player mode like Melee but have a full level from every series and not just Zelda and Mario.

With Dark Pit, why don't we just add?

Dark Zelda (from Twilight Princess)
Metal Mario
Shadow Mario
Baby Peach
Mr. L
Albino Donkey Kong
Pichu


Yay great roster full of clones.

Sakurai is against content bloat, so he sets tight deadlines outside of Brawl.

No I said I would have rather had him as a clone than Dark Pit. At least we would have a representative from a large and relevent series!

Funky wasn't a costume, and couldn't be cloned.

 

[LordVacation]

GOD NO.
There's literally, and I mean literally no way you can make his inclusion make ANY sense.
He was an alt costume... is now unlockable clone... like... come on, Sakurai.

 

[LancerStaff]

GOD NO.
There's literally, and I mean literally no way you can make his inclusion make ANY sense.
He was an alt costume... is now unlockable clone... like... come on, Sakurai.

Empty space or clone that somebody could be happy with.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

I honestly don't care that much that Dark Pit is a clone. The more the merrier I say.

 

[LordVacation]

Empty space or clone that somebody could be happy with.

Empty space/Alt Costume or Clone that somebody could be happy with, somewhere.

 

[Dunk Master]

He is literally just a color change with slightly modified animations and knockback angles. As someone who doesn't like clones, I say no. I mean, if it was going to otherwise be an empty space then fine, he can stay, it makes no difference to me. It still doesn't change the fact that he is a poor excuse for a character. If dark pit is replacing a character that would have been on the roster then give that trash clone the boot.

To be completely honest, the full roster disgusted me. We gained shulk and bowser jr. then a ton of clones nobody wanted.
Want mewtwo? Here have dr. mario.
Want a much deserved DK rep? Have a KI clone.
Want clones that actually play differently like wolf and lucas? lol nope.

This isn't even trolling anymore. This is just flat out bad judgement.