Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

[Opossum]

I have a hard time imagining the proposed stance system actually creating a good dynamic.

The only character that sort of did it right that I can think of is Gen from Street Fighter, where his stance changes both passively and actively as he attacks.

I don't like systems where it is basically having two characters in one or one character with minute changes with no dynamic behind them. People just stick to the one they like. Rather have just had another character. :/

The way I see it, the stance idea could offer quite the variety of mix-ups and tricks, essentially switching when the time calls for it. I think it would help with the fact that the switch would require virtually no lag, since it's just grabbing another weapon. I feel it could make Chrom a more strategic character to use, referencing the fact that Fire Emblem requires a bit of strategy. I don't know, I just think it's a cool idea.

 

[Bowserlick]

Chrom Specials:

B Luna: Sword glows silver and extends as he slashes. Goes through shields and other weapons without clashing. But only does damage with no knockback.

Up B Lance (air): Leaps forward in an arch while taking out his lance. Press of A while cause him to thrust the lance downwards and forward for a good amount of damage and stun. Especially if it connects with grounded opponents

Up B Lance (ground): Takes out lance quickly and pole vaults high into the air. Still gets two jumps and is allowed to attack, but can no longer use Up B unless he lands.

Side B Dual Slash: Goes forward quickly covering a short distance and stabs his sword forward. During the animation toward or back B can be pressed again and Chrom will do a second attack. He goes further and does a more powerful slash. But he lags more after the second optional attack.

Down B Aegis: Creates a mystical shield in front of him. Absorbs up to 27 percentage damage. Can be left out. After the last hit, the shield shatters doing splash damage to enemies. Cannot be used again until next stock. However, it can absorb energy projectiles and add to the shields hitpoints.

 

[Opossum]

Chrom Specials:

B Luna: Sword glows silver and extends as he slashes. Goes through shields and other weapons without clashing. But only does damage with no knockback.

Up B Lance (air): Leaps forward in an arch while taking out his lance. Press of A while cause him to thrust the lance downwards and forward for a good amount of damage and stun. Especially if it connects with grounded opponents

Up B Lance (ground): Takes out lance quickly and pole vaults high into the air. Still gets two jumps and is allowed to attack, but can no longer use Up B unless he lands.

Side B Dual Slash: Goes forward quickly covering a short distance and stabs his sword forward. During the animation toward or back B can be pressed again and Chrom will do a second attack. He goes further and does a more powerful slash. But he lags more after the second optional attack.

Down B Aegis: Creates a mystical shield in front of him. Absorbs up to 27 percentage damage. Can be left out. After the last hit, the shield shatters doing splash damage to enemies. Cannot be used again until next stock. However, it can absorb energy projectiles and add to the shields hitpoints.

That's quite an interesting Special set! I actually really like the Aegis special. Mind if I add it to the OP?

 

[Bowserlick]

Thanks. I don't mind at all.

 

[Igneous42]

I have a hard time imagining the proposed stance system actually creating a good dynamic.

The only character that sort of did it right that I can think of is Gen from Street Fighter, where his stance changes both passively and actively as he attacks.

I don't like systems where it is basically having two characters in one or one character with minute changes with no dynamic behind them. People just stick to the one they like. Rather have just had another character. :/

I kinda feel the same why which is why I am still attached to my "skill" equip idea where equipping different fire emblem skills (aether, counter, galeforce etc.) which would change certain properties of Chrom's abilities but the base style would remain the same. Though rumors suggest that might be what the "character customization" in Smash kinda is in which point it'd be sort of redundant though I guess it could still work but the changes would have to be more dramatic.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

As far as a stance changing moveset, I think it should be more of a Down B special to switch, and then a few combos that are able to be done. After being in use for awhile, Chrom would go back to his normal stance.

I got that idea from an old X-Men fighting game for the GCN. Gambit was a fighter with a stance change, and he was able to do a few combos before having to change back.

 

[Opossum]

As far as a stance changing moveset, I think it should be more of a Down B special to switch, and then a few combos that are able to be done. After being in use for awhile, Chrom would go back to his normal stance.

I got that idea from an old X-Men fighting game for the GCN. Gambit was a fighter with a stance change, and he was able to do a few combos before having to change back.

Is this the game you're talking about? If so, could you go into a bit more detail on what you mean?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yes that was it. Basically Gambit has a stance change where he holds his staff differently and does a few different attacks that he can do while in the stance. It isn't an entirely different moveset, but he moves slower while he is in it, but theres some sort of advantage to it. I haven't played it in awhile so I don't remember.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Has anyone considered the idea that Chrom could use blue fure as a projectile maybe? It shows up in the game somewhere right?

 

[ToothiestAura]

Has anyone considered the idea that Chrom could use blue fure as a projectile maybe? It shows up in the game somewhere right?

Ike doesn't have Ragnell's Sword Beam and that's an actually an attack in both game's he's featured in. Chrom uses this fire in a cut scene. But, Sakurai likes to make up moves, so it really doesn't matter.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yes, a Fire Emblem character using fire. That's a completely new concept that hasn't been done before.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Yes, a Fire Emblem character using fire. That's a completely new concept that hasn't been done before.

FIRE IS CLEARLY THE MOST UNIQUE AND CREATIVE THING IMAGINABLE!

 

[Deleted member]

If Ike's projectile move would have made him "overpowered", then I suppose giving it to Chrom for that aura sword thing would be the next best thing.
It's only fair, since Ike took Roy's attack.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm actually thinking up a new moveset for Chrom right now. Once I get it done i'll post it.

Yes, a Fire Emblem character using fire. That's a completely new concept that hasn't been done before.

I just meant in the way it's used. Neither Roy or Ike had a projectile so Chrom could use it that way if it were included. I didn't say that assuming it was a "Chrom only" thing.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

I just meant in the way it's used. Neither Roy or Ike had a projectile so Chrom could use it that way if it were included. I didn't say that assuming it was a "Chrom only" thing.

Does Chrom actually use a fire projectile in Awakening outside of 1 cutscene? Because I know Roy has a fire based projectile in FE6.

 

[Hong]

Does Chrom actually use a fire projectile in Awakening outside of 1 cutscene? Because I know Roy has a fire based projectile in FE6.

He doesn't even use a projectile at all.

The Falchion burns with a blue fire when it strikes down evil. Even in the cutscenes it is not a projectile.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

He doesn't even use a projectile at all.

The Falchion burns with a blue fire when it strikes down evil. Even in the cutscenes it is not a projectile.

So the sword just lights on fire? Then it's the same as Roy, correct?

 

[ChronoBound]

So the sword just lights on fire? Then it's the same as Roy, correct?

No. Not really.

 

[Hong]

Falchion: Burns with a subtle blue fire that can only be seen during long cuts
Sword of Seals: ENGULFS Into ****ing flames (even when not being swung) which can be flung around or explode ****.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

Falchion: Burns with a subtle blue fire that can only be seen during long cuts
Sword of Seals: ENGULFS Into ****ing flames (even when not being swung) which can be flung around or explode ****.

OK, I got it now. Chrom has small blue fire that doesn't do anything, Roy has fire that makes **** explode.

 

[Croph]

But if Chrom's given a fire-based attack that would be kinda like ripping off Roy's ph1r3. And if everyone has teh ph1r3 I'd be disappointed (even if it's different, I'll still be sad). I'd prefer the fire-based attacks to stick with Roy, if he gets in of course.

BUT I think Chrom has enough going for him that he doesn't have to resort to fire attacks. If it's a projectile that's needed, a weapon (like a javelin) would be cool. And what about Chrom's miraculous wind powers?

Exalted Falchion (either part of the normal moveset or not) could potentially help as well. Sakurai could make up some BS allowing the Exalted Falchion to create Holy Strikes (or whatever), having the ability to produce hippy, trippy glowing projectiles.

If this somehow gets implanted and potentially do other effects (with the power of BS), I think that would be a turn on for me. And maybe incorporating the Shield of Seals for more unique gameplay.

 

[Hong]

If a projectile makes sense for Chrom in his final design, for good gameplay, they should give him one. It doesn't have to be from the game, so much as it doesn't distort the image of the character. Like, whether Chrom throws a javelin, creates a Ragnell/Alondite-esque sword beam or throws the Falchion like a boomerang (akin to hand axes pre Awakening), as long as he isn't some kind of keep away character, I am fine with it. Chrom would use projectiles to close the gap or control the battlefield, and whatever occurs should reflect that.

 

[Croph]

The thing is, if Chrom gets a projectile he will have some zoning capabilities, which, in turn, could potentially be used (or abused) for keep away tactics (if he also has other options). Although Chrom could still very well be a rushdown (or whatever archetype) fighter, however, with projectiles, he will have some zoning options. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as having projectiles could make for a more defensive gameplay (compared to Marth and Ike), making him a versatile fighter in the end (especially if the projectile have a unique effect). Plus, incorporating the Shield of Seals as a move or some sort of defence power-up could help emphasize this playstyle, yet he could still be an "in-your-face" fighter. I'm sure he won't be a keep away fighter anyway.

For some reason, I envision Chrom having a good ground game with nice combos. I'd prefer it if he has as few projectiles as possible, though (so he won't be spammy).

Wouldn't it be cool if Chrom gets the Shield of Seals (as a Special or whatever) and Roy also gets in, using the Sword of Seals, of course. Shield of Seals vs Sword of Seals... man that sounds like a sick match! My gosh, it would remind me of something like this lol:

 

[Hong]

I think an ideal Chrom projectile would have a passive charging mechanism, like that of R.O.B.'s laser or Wario's fart. Something that makes him a threat even while he is out of reach, but nothing that he can use to stall an engagement. Perhaps something like 3 sec prep time, 12 second for a fully powered attack?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Reposting this comment here.

Well, the deal with Chrom is that his general design is supposed to borrow characteristics from the other Lords, with most of the inspiration coming from Ike. His daughter meanwhile takes inspiration from Marth. Basically when you put the two together, it's supposed to give off vibes of Marth and Ike respectively, the two most well known and popular Lords in the series. You can tell from a design standpoint alone, and it was probably done so in order to highlight the most well received characteristics of a Lord character. Chrom himself also borrows form skills shared with Ike, such as Aether, and also boasts similarly distributed stats and stat growths. However, believe it or not, the similarities end there. Chrom and Ike have different back stories and motives, and their personalities were different with Ike generally being more rough due to his mercenary ties. It's also worth mentioning that unlike other Lords Chrom is capable of being reclassed into other classes aside from the typical Great Lord or equivalents.

Also, you might be wondering why I dislike Chrom so much if that is the case. Well to simply put into words, Chrom hasn't proven anything notably special. Yes he's a Lord which is all fine and dandy, but there are at least a dozen of them through out the series and they tend to be more colorful. There is of course the very notable problem of the character creating a negative sense of redundancy, which can easily create a sense of disappointment for veterans of the series and create a bad image of the Fire Emblem franchise for newcomers. There is just that lack of excitement for a character that feels like one big beaten horse, and in a franchise that has a very notable sense of diversity in play that is going to be an issue.

 

[Deleted member]

As much as I really don't care about Chrom (would rather see a Karas inspired Lucina instead or Walhart. Especially Walhart. I don't know why....), I have no doubts in my mind that Sakurai can think of a way to make him "special" and stand out.

I mean, Marth and Ike were pretty generic too (as are most Lords, honestly), yet he made them interesting.
I remember before Ike's reveal in Brawl that I saw him as nothing special.

 

[FalKoopa]

Golden has a point. PoR Ike did not stand out that much, really.

 

[DraginHikari]

It's a pretty common for the lords to be pretty generic and have the other characters be more interesting in general, but because the Lords are generally the most recongizable is why they tend to be front and center when it comes to alot of things. Fire Emblem simply has too many characters to go with anyone other then the Lords. Games with multiple Lords tends to make this slightly more complicated which is probably why the whole Chrom/Lucina thing is a bit more debatable then say Marth compared to other characters in his own game.

 

[jaytalks]

I don't agree with the notion that Ike was not unique. It's easy to say that in hindsight. But I remember thinking while playing Path of Radiance that he was quite the unique lord. The only thing he really shares with previous lords is his blue hair and the fact he uses a sword. Everything else was different.

Back to Chrom. As I've said before, it appears Aether has become a Lord exclusive skill, as Lucina has it as well. There were no FE sequels after Radiant Dawn besides Awakening, so that had no means to make it a Lord exclusive skill prior. And I don't get that strong a vibe of Ike from Chrom. Their similar stats really aren't if you include Ike's latest appearance. The thing he really shares with Ike is the mercernary lord archetype. But many other lords in the series, Seliph, Roy, Eliwood, Lucina, have the original lord archetype from Marth. It's more about the series' use of archetypes, which are very prominent, rather than Ike and Chrom sharing a real similarity. The thing is two of a type does not establish an archetype, but it's going in that direction.

 

[DraginHikari]

Ike didn't start out as a traditional lord since he is not royality, that's where most of his difference comes in which is a major difference. His personality though since exactly what I'd call deep, but then again I don't play Fire Emblem for deep invidiual character personality more then the overarching situation anyway.

 

[Hong]

I think being the most recent face of a series with hundreds of characters is a merit being undersold.

Gosh, I didn't like MIcaiah much, but I would have loved to have her in Brawl because she was the most recent lord. I like to have a character like Marth, representing the history of the series, and another character representing where we are now. All the same, I wouldn't have been upset if Micaiah's design was given to another Nintendo character and she was disposed of going into the next entry. Now the merit is gone and she is just another entry in the series.

 

[Deleted member]

The "merit" is non-existant.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think being the most recent face of a series with hundreds of characters is a merit being undersold.

It's being undersold because being recent in itself is not a strong factor.

 

[GmanSir]

So is this was the final FE roster for Smash 4, will people be happy?

Marth
Ike
Chrom (ofc not a clone)

 

[Opossum]

So is this was the final FE roster for Smash 4, will people be happy?

Marth
Ike
Chrom (ofc not a clone)

I would be very happy, personally. The only better scenario, in my opinion, is if we get Roy as well as the aforementioned three.

 

[Hong]

I would be rather baffled. While it is more than possible to have all four of them unique, it is both rather selfish of the series to take up four styles of swordsmanship, and personally I think it would be a lame representation to have four characters of what is essentially two core designs. I am fine with Marth and Chrom (or Ike or Lucina) because the series doesn't have much in the way of variety in lead characters, but if we get a third or even a fourth, I would want something that shows off as much of the series as possible. Marth, Chrom, Robin and Anna perhaps? Honestly in the grand scheme of Nintendo, unless we get over 50 characters (and I sincerely hope not), three is more than enough.

The "merit" is non-existant.

I think that is unreasonable.

If not for it, Ike could have been Sigurd. Ike could have been Alm, or Hector, as they could all be stretched to fill that fighting style. After all; Ike was "fitted" to a character type they didn't have. Sure RD Ike could stastically be argued as a sluggish character, as far as presentation is considered in all of his appearances and his stats in PoR, it betrays him entirely. In way of presentation he is very extremely nimble, but he is also very strong and as such can be tailored to a stronger swordsman. Ike could have been Ganondorf and if they wanted to maintain a quota of two Fire Emblem characters, we could have had someone completely different.

No one is saying recency is the song that brings the cows home, but the developers certainly value it. They also value gameplay potential, aesthetic distinctiveness, contrast to other characters, relation to other characters, etc. Link has appeared in Smash Bros as the most recent Link three times. Now before you retort by saying that is because Link is always Link and fulfills the quota for what the fans want, I am just saying they took recency into consideration. If something like popularity or notoriety was the whole story, we would probably see a repeat of OoT Link or the emergence of LttP Link. Merit is a cumulative set of values. Of course they are subjective, and the director has to decide what is most important, usually in guidance with the creator of said character and sometimes popular opinion.

If Ike never showed up and that style of character never made an appearance, Chrom could have been "Ike". He can more than easily fulfill the exact same gameplay to a tee. But Ike did, and soon enough made his way into people's hearts. Appearing in Smash Bros, like recency, is a merit. I doubt anyone would be asking for Roy as much as they have if he didn't appear in the series, either. In fact if he wasn't the most fresh on the minds of Nintendo, it would have been simple enough for them to use a myriad of other characters. Despite inspirations from Marth and Ike, Chrom can just as easily be the next flavour of the month for people who are completely ignorant of the series prior.

 

[Deleted member]

You're comparing character designs to an actual character.

The two are not the same.

Aside from that, neither Ike nor Roy were included because of being the most recent; in fact, Roy wasn't even going to be in Melee at all.
To say that because Chrom is recent gives him merit is a really big stretch.

 

[Hong]

You're comparing character designs to an actual character.

The two are not the same.

That is the point.

Aside from that, neither Ike nor Roy were included because of being the most recent; in fact, Roy wasn't even going to be in Melee at all.
To say that because Chrom is recent gives him merit is a really big stretch.

Again, no one said that was the entirety of the reason they were chosen over other characters is because they were recent. It was saying it is taken into consideration, along with the other qualities I listed. It doesn't matter how Roy got there or how late he was added; he is there. He wasn't popular and he didn't offer new gameplay possibilities, and even as a late addition they could have had a ton of other characters, but they added him for reasons that are unlikely popularity or gameplay. And when you look at what the possibilities for why it could be, combined with his what was stated in his responses to fan letters, being recent was a strong point in that particular circumstance.

 

[Opossum]

Let's try to remain calm with this discussion, okay guys?

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai has brought up that Roy was chosen as the clone of Marth due to standing out from other options in both appearance and in functionality in regards to having a fire sword.

Recency doesn't hold as much merit as you think it does. All it does is give them a chance to be evaluated; the final test is whether or not Sakurai sees worth in including the character.

Sakurai also didn't look at Ike being the most recent main character (which at the time of his addition to Smash, he was, since RD wasn't out yet).
In fact, Ike was a suggestion by Intelligent Systems when he asked of them for an idea of a post-FE6 character to include.
Sakurai saw an opportunity to make a slow and powerful sword style and leaped at it.


All being recent will do will give Chrom a chance to be evaluated. However, only IF Sakurai sees worth in his inclusion and can envision a style that doesn't resemble Marth or Ike will he be included.
And even then, that's not considering the fact that Intelligent Systems can suggest someone else, such as Lucina, who they market more in promotional material than Chrom despite his stance as the primary protagonist.

So no, being recent isn't a good merit other than "you exist now, you can be judged upon".