Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

[Opossum]

I suppose the issue is that Robin also fits that criteria, and more. Robin is overtly more unique than Chrom, both in abilities and aesthetically, and that uniqueness could make people more interested in playing the game.

Going by that criteria alone, Robin is the superior choice, and it would seem that Sakurai agrees.

Except once again, it's entirely subjective. There's no definitive way to say Robin "fits it better."

All that matters is Sakurai picked Robin solely for jumping out at him more. In a way, I see where he came from. Why put in the extra work when something else is arguably more apparent?

I personally think they both fit it well. In the end though, well, you know.

 

[guedes the brawler]

if you look at everything it's was quite obvious that he would go with Robin, because Chrom fit pretty much none of "Sakurai's character inclusion criteria" where Robin fit every one of them, and on top of that the only thing Chrom had going for him was popularity, and we had already seen previously, that uniqueness beats popularity with characters like Rosalina, or Greninja.

except both of these guys are popular, chrom being more than Robin.

And we saw what he did with Mac. "if he can do a moveset for Mac, he can do one for Chrom too" is a fair bit of logic, since Chrom HAS quite a bit going for him (even if his maximum potential [as well as Robin's] can't be reached thanks to the lack of transformation characters), not to mention Palutena's reveal said "look, we can think outside the box" and plenty of characters such as MGW and the newcomer Megaman and Pacman show "look, we can make incredible movesets with tons of stuff from the original games"

it was not a stretch to think Sakurai would do the logical thing and add the protagonist of the most recent game, and spcie it up as necessary.

- The character's inclusion must make people want to buy the game.
Sure a lot of people expected Chrom, but not a lot of people wanted him, so most people wouldn't but the game JUST to see him
- The character must be unique
This one's a little too obvious, yes he could be unique gameplay wise, but now matter what you do he looks like a Marth Ike hybrid.
- The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.
Yes he would fit just as well as any other character I'll give you that
- They must contribute to the game balance.
Again he looks like a Marth Ike hybrid, it would be like having Pikachu, Pichu, and Plusle & Minun be the only Pokemon reps.

1- can't be proven, especially since most people, wanting or not, expected Chrom , so we don't have a base for "want Chrom" and "want other people". What we do have, is Chrom beating Robin on the popularity polls of FEA. Not to mention this one is ridiculously silly of Sakurai. Do we really have people that's buy the game for a single character, and not for the gameplay and fanservice above all else?

2- Are you saying Chrom couldn't be faster and weaker than Marth? because he very well could. in fact, it would be the best way to go at his design since for a Longsword user, that was a new archtype. They could literally make Chrom behave like Roy and that'd be a a new thing for smash 4 that's not a hybrid of Marth and Ike.

4- Valid, even if this is a completely stupid thing to be concerned with. it's not like you can bring 4 people from the same general archtypes into smash without running into issues, and it's not like we don't have trios of repetitive characters already (we had the Mario trio in Melee, Triple Princess in this game, 3 SF reps in Brawl...); none of that hurts the game in any shape or form.

 

[Deviddo]

I'd like to note, real quick, a good chuck of characters in Smash use their fists or feet for a majority of attacks, yet, it's somehow a bad thing (to some) that we have as many sword users as we do.

 

[IronFish]

except both of these guys are popular, chrom being more than Robin.

And we saw what he did with Mac. "if he can do a moveset for Mac, he can do one for Chrom too" is a fair bit of logic, since Chrom HAS quite a bit going for him (even if his maximum potential [as well as Robin's] can't be reached thanks to the lack of transformation characters), not to mention Palutena's reveal said "look, we can think outside the box" and plenty of characters such as MGW and the newcomer Megaman and Pacman show "look, we can make incredible movesets with tons of stuff from the original games"

it was not a stretch to think Sakurai would do the logical thing and add the protagonist of the most recent game, and spcie it up as necessary.

He did do the logical thing and add the protagonist from the latest FE game, weren't you paying attention?

 

[guedes the brawler]

He did do the logical thing and add the protagonist from the latest FE game, weren't you paying attention?

again this?

i'll keep it briefer this time: If you have a character that becomes no better than an extra during extended periods of the on-screen story, this character cannot ever be considered a protagonist.

which is exactly what happened with Robin on the Gangrel arc after the introductions were over, and in the Valm arc after they actually boarded Valm. Heck.. why is my font small?!?! ... er, where was i? Ah yes. Robin even was demoted to extra Again during
chapter of the grima arc (the chapter where Chrom undergoes the awakening. Also, i'm not sure he was relevant during the first aversa chapter)


Chrom didn't have any of this, and more, the game itself treated Chrom almost-exactly like the other FEs treated their protagonist, which for a series of 13 games, is quite telling of who is who. Between being the leader of the group, getting exclusive weapons, being forced and seen on every battle, even being the unit you control on the word map; there is simply no denying it. The only thing Robin has going for itself in-game, is a multitude of character themes and being the most important guy on the main chapter (not like Chrom isn't important to that one teither)
People here... Ah, seriously? now my font's back to normal, what sorcery is this?!... ugh, anyways. People now are bring more foreful and that's just because "wow, Robin got in smash and Chrom didn't!"

i've seriously seen people claim Lucina was more of a protagonist than Chrom, that's just ridiculous.

 

[Deviddo]

He did do the logical thing and add the protagonist from the latest FE game, weren't you paying attention?

He meant the main protagonist, at least as considered by Nintendo.

 

[guedes the brawler]

He meant the main protagonist, at least as considered by Nintendo.

Yes.

A pity that, as shown by Roslaina, Sakurai just plainly decides to ignore those things nowadays.

 

[Deviddo]

Wait, what do you mean?

 

[TP8bitPyro]

You know guys they can always pull a Scott pilgrim vs the world and replace Crom for a different character when it comes to DLC but it does not seem that likely

 

[False Sense]

Wait, what do you mean?

It's clear that guedes has a very specific idea about what characters should or shouldn't be in Smash. Although keep in mind that such ideas are very subjective and not necessarily fact.

 

[Hong]

Spoiler

 

[guedes the brawler]

It's clear that guedes has a very specific idea about what characters should or shouldn't be in Smash. Although keep in mind that such ideas are very subjective and not necessarily fact.

It is an undeniable Fact that both Toad and Bowser Jr are mor eimportant to the Mario series than Rosalina is

toad was playable in More games than Rosalina, and was in a crapload of other main games and spin-offs.
bowser Jr was a strong presence in Galaxy 1 and 2 (Where Rosalina was basically just an extra) not to mention his relevant appearance as one of bowser's Top dogs (turtles? dragons?), in particular, he was the main villain of Super Mario Sunshine and the actual leader of the Koopa Troop during about 90% of New super Mario Bros Wii

both characters were prominent in New Super mario bros Wii which was one of the Wii's best sellers, and in fact,sold almost twice as much as the Original Galaxy, and still outsells both SMGs together by around 3 million. Not to mention it's a safe bet that the NSMBW game reached more people than Galaxy due to it's 4-player focus.

 

[Opossum]

Spoiler

 

[Agualitos]

Huh, you know, I paid 0 attention to the Miis because I could really care less about them, but that anon does have a good point. Not sure why we had to have three different variations on Miis when we could have had one kind of Mii and two other actual, meaningful characters. That really IS kind of disheartening...sure, we'll do a generic Mii swordsman, but we can't think of anything for Chrom!

Nicely done, team.

But yeah, I really can't blame Robin either. Nor can I get terribly upset, because I like Robin and will be playing him/her. Just coulda done without a whole trailer of Chrom lying in the dirt and Sakurai making us think for a second he might actually be playable. It put a damper on what was otherwise the single most hype-generating trailer for me, huge FE fan that I am.

Never EVER Have I agreed with a post more than I do with yours right now! *Claps* Thank you for this. It's like you tok the words right out of my mouth.

Now don't get me wrong I Don't dislike the mii's, actually it's kind of a cool idea that Sakurai implemented into the game tbh, but after hearing Sakurai did not want another generic swordsman kinda bummed me out. Chrom could have been so unique if Sakurai and his team really took the time to think of a good potential moveset! Don't get me wrong Sakurai is doing amazing, and always does, but Idk. . . I just feel that Chrom was kinda tossed to the side . . . LITERALLY! I love Robin and am so happy he is in this game, but Chrom would have just been icing on the cake for me if he was also included!

I truly will miss Chrom when playing this new smash. I even had it planned all out where I was gonna main him :/ I'm very happy with everything Sakurai has done with this game! From the stages to characters it's all been great, but not seeing Chrom playable always makes me shed a tear.

The people her on Smashboards seriously have great potential movesets for Chrom in the likely event he becomes DLC. Hopefully Sakurai has a change of heart and includes him. It would not only make mine, but a lot of others day! :D
Btw. . . how is the DLC Chrom support doing?

 

[guedes the brawler]

i've heard someone was going to give us news in this weekened...

 

[Opossum]

I'm SORRY. D:

The news is going to need to be bumped at least till tomorrow. I was out pretty much all yesterday, which I didn't account for when I said that.

 

[Deviddo]

It is an undeniable Fact that both Toad and Bowser Jr are mor eimportant to the Mario series than Rosalina is

Perhaps Rosalina was picked because she had gotten immensely popular in more recent years?
And well, I guess it's the same boat as Robin and Chrom.

Perhaps, to Sakurai, Rosalina was a clear unique addition rather than Toad or Bowser Jr.?
...Not that I think her moveset was...clear to begin with, all they really had for Rosalina was a Star Spin, in my opinion, other than that she just has made-up things. They probably reflect the Galaxy games or something, but it LOOKS made-up to me, nonetheless.

View attachment 20372

Now don't get me wrong I Don't dislike the mii's, actually it's kind of a cool idea that Sakurai implemented into the game tbh, but after hearing Sakurai did not want another generic swordsman kinda bummed me out. Chrom could have been so unique if Sakurai and his team really took the time to think of a good potential moveset! Don't get me wrong Sakurai is doing amazing, and always does, but Idk. . . I just feel that Chrom was kinda tossed to the side . . . LITERALLY! I love Robin and am so happy he is in this game, but Chrom would have just been icing on the cake for me if he was also included!

Yeah I've always had an issue with the whole "Swordsmen can't be unique" argument myself. But Mii Swordfighter is an excellent point that further strengthens the whole idea that Chrom can be unique.

 

[IronFish]

again this?

i'll keep it briefer this time: If you have a character that becomes no better than an extra during extended periods of the on-screen story, this character cannot ever be considered a protagonist.

which is exactly what happened with Robin on the Gangrel arc after the introductions were over, and in the Valm arc after they actually boarded Valm. Heck.. why is my font small?!?! ... er, where was i? Ah yes. Robin even was demoted to extra Again during
chapter of the grima arc (the chapter where Chrom undergoes the awakening. Also, i'm not sure he was relevant during the first aversa chapter)


Chrom didn't have any of this, and more, the game itself treated Chrom almost-exactly like the other FEs treated their protagonist, which for a series of 13 games, is quite telling of who is who. Between being the leader of the group, getting exclusive weapons, being forced and seen on every battle, even being the unit you control on the word map; there is simply no denying it. The only thing Robin has going for itself in-game, is a multitude of character themes and being the most important guy on the main chapter (not like Chrom isn't important to that one teither)
People here... Ah, seriously? now my font's back to normal, what sorcery is this?!... ugh, anyways. People now are bring more foreful and that's just because "wow, Robin got in smash and Chrom didn't!"

i've seriously seen people claim Lucina was more of a protagonist than Chrom, that's just ridiculous.

I find your hypocrisy, and straw grasping very disturbing, Chrom could of not been in the game after Valm and there would be no charge, Robin is the one who becomes the fell dragon, Robin is the one who pulls all the strategies out of his butt, Robin is the one who (attempts to) keep Chrom in line, Robin in the end is the one who saves the day the permanently. Chrom... is the required unit guy?

 

[Opossum]

First half of the story is mainly Chrom's. Second half is mainly Robin's. It's not difficult, guys.

 

[IronFish]

You guys might appreciate this

 

[Deviddo]

IronFish, might I kindly ask:
What exactly is your goal here in the Chrom for SSB4 topic?

 

[Morian]

IronFish, might I kindly ask:
What exactly is your goal here in the Chrom for SSB4 topic?

I guess the Robin threads are now too peaceful and boring after they stop trash talking Chrom.

For that images they are legit arguments...but why feed him? is a waste of time.

 

[False Sense]

IronFish, might I kindly ask:
What exactly is your goal here in the Chrom for SSB4 topic?

Arguing against Chrom's inclusion, I presume (and posting Chrom related memes, but I'm not sure if that really goes against the idea of a Chrom support thread). I will admit though, the way he does it could be a bit more polite...

I guess the Robin threads are now too peaceful and boring after they stop trash talking Chrom.

Eh, I don't think it's that. We have a place for that sort of discussion now. I think he just dislikes Chrom, is all.

 

[Oblivion129]

Guys, we shouldn't hate on Sakurai or anyone. If it weren't for Sakurai we might have not of even gotten Awakening, because thanks to Marth and Roy in Melee the franchise became more popular and is now international.
I really like Robin and I'm sure most Chrom supporters do, there's no need for fighting. It's not like "Robin supporters won" or anything like that, because we all win for getting an awesome character and having FE be represented with 4 characters.

 

[Remigrated]

So we have another question!
(Albeit it's a bit of an unhappy question.)

"It's sure funny how Sakurai ignored Chrom due to him being a bland and boring swordsman (AKA sakurai is incapable of stop looking at robin for 2 seconds to think up a cool and unique moveset)... and was completely fine with the even blander and boring mii Swordsman; right?" - Anonymous

it is in this instance that I'm a bit unsure as to whether or not SSB4 is being made for balance. it's obvious that relevancy and balance seems to have zero importance because, while Chrom may just be another blue-haired swordsman, Lucina is a last minute addition blue-haired swordswoman Marth clone (or at more just an EZ-Marth) and did just fine.

also Palutena seems incredibly overpowered, at least from what I've seen from the trailers as she has so many specials. she is simply OP.

 

[Turokman5896]

You guys might appreciate thisView attachment 20377

Majority of the plans are robins ideas... GTFO bruh

Also: haven't dropped by in a while, I come to see what's up and everyone is arguing over who is the protagonist... Just shut the hell up. I don't understand why people who oppose a character so vehemently continue to come here after their personal choice was confirmed...

 

[Deviddo]

And the ask has been posted!

http://chromforsmash.tumblr.com/post/93756932411/its-sure-funny-how-sakurai-ignored-chrom-due-to-him

 

[IronFish]

Majority of the plans are robins ideas... GTFO bruh

Also: haven't dropped by in a while, I come to see what's up and everyone is arguing over who is the protagonist... Just shut the hell up. I don't understand why people who oppose a character so vehemently continue to come here after their personal choice was confirmed...

Chrom's the one who listens to them, and how do we know if Robin has any better idea's, and Chrom just listens to the crazy ones?

 

[Turokman5896]

Chrom's the one who listens to them, a how do we know if Robin has any better idea's, and Chrom just listens to the crazy ones?

Booooooooooo... That was lame...you just failed your meme spam...

 

[ZeldaMaster]

So Chrom would appear as both a fighter and in Robin's final Smash? What if Robin uses his final smash on a hypothetically playable Chrom? What then? Does the universe explode, or would Chrom help kill Chrom? I used to be a diehard Chrom supporter, but I realize that his fate is sealed and am glad to see him atleast make an appearance in the game in an epic final smash.

 

[Turokman5896]

So Chrom would appear as both a fighter and in Robin's final Smash? What if Robin uses his final smash on a hypothetically playable Chrom? What then? Does the universe explode, or would Chrom help kill Chrom? I used to be a diehard Chrom supporter, but I realize that his fate is sealed and am glad to see him atleast make an appearance in the game in an epic final smash.

Chrom helps kill chrom. Why not?we can have 4 ganons or 4 Mario's....

 

[Morian]

Chrom helps kill Lucina.
Robin's a n00b for let Chrom be defeated in that trailer.
Lucina is a Marth clone.

Nothing matters in Smash. Also, a playable Chrom could summon Robin as his FS, they are 3 Landmasters in Brawl anyway.

 

[Johnknight1]

I still don't get why you guys are adamant for Chrom as his own playable character. Judging by the straight burial Chrom received, it's not happening.

I say this not because I want to bury you guys or upset anyone, but to more give my opinion that you should fix your expectations and focus on something simpler. I got an alternative idea you guys could vouch for.

Instead of asking for Chrom being playable as his own character, ask for him as an alternate skin for Marth or Lucina. I think it has a more realistic chance of happening. All they'd have to do is maybe re-size Chrom, make a few alternate colors, do some voice work, and they're done. Heck, regardless, with smash hacking these days you could easily do it yourself, given that there's already a great model of Chrom in smash 4.

(why do I get a feeling Roy is in the same boat=???)

I know it may not be what you all originally wanted, but honestly, that's not such a bad fate for a one-off character like Chrom. It's the nature of the Fire Emblem structure.

First half of the story is mainly Chrom's. Second half is mainly Robin's. It's not difficult, guys.

So like Michiah and Ike in Radiant Dawn again=??? (why didn't I notice this before=???)

 

[guedes the brawler]

I find your hypocrisy, and straw grasping very disturbing, Chrom could of not been in the game after Valm and there would be no charge, Robin is the one who becomes the fell dragon, Robin is the one who pulls all the strategies out of his butt, Robin is the one who (attempts to) keep Chrom in line, Robin in the end is the one who saves the day the permanently. Chrom... is the required unit guy?

there are only a few actual strategies Robin pulls off:

1- the division of the feroxi army and the shephereds and their overall plan of attack (iirc it was a diversion tactic)
1,5: Sending Flavia to kill Emmrtyn's would-be killer; nothing special here and a bad plan anyways (sending Basialio wiht a Bow would've been better, and sending pegasus knight would be evne MORE better [having they circle the castle from behind and appear from below the area where emmeryn would fall off: the army wouldn't be able to spot them til the last minute)
2- Valm boat thing
3- Deciding to bring the fight Yen'fay on the volcano to limit the space of his army (this was pure brilliance, even if it felt a bit forced since there HAd to be a volcano chapter...)
4- "Securing an escape Route" when visiting plegia to speak with Validar for the second time (yeah, i don't get how this all came to be)

That's all the strategies Robin pulls off in-game, which are those that matter. You could even try the "but the player's strategies are Robin's!" argument, which is flawed because there is no way to know what Robin did do in that part, it's just the player.... in other words, Your actions =/= robin's actions in-battle (the proof is Noire, who becomes playable out of nowhere. she wouldn't even KNOW who robin is during most timelines, and in a normal play there is no way to reach her in time to "talk to her" before she flips out)

And yes, Chrom was needed because he was in charge. What is the problem with this part? why does this invalidate my claims? He was in charge is part of my argument, even.

And if i was an hypocrite, please tell me. The thought displeases me, and i'd like to correct it if there is such a thing.

it is in this instance that I'm a bit unsure as to whether or not SSB4 is being made for balance. it's obvious that relevancy and balance seems to have zero importance because, while Chrom may just be another blue-haired swordsman, Lucina is a last minute addition blue-haired swordswoman Marth clone (or at more just an EZ-Marth) and did just fine.

also Palutena seems incredibly overpowered, at least from what I've seen from the trailers as she has so many specials. she is simply OP.

Do not worry. From the trailers i conclude that:

a) Palutena has slow speed and outside of Warp, her mobility is very bad. Depending on how it is Warp might even be worse, tho...
b) She is tall, and msot likely Light and Floaty, which is a VERY dangerous combination of physics. Just for perspecitve: Mewtwo having this set of Physics was his major problem, and he'd be easily floating around Mario's tier if he had something different.

She might be a great character, but at least she won't be a "no weakness" character like Meta Knight

 

[Deviddo]

Instead of asking for Chrom being playable as his own character, ask for him as an alternate skin for Marth or Lucina. I think it has a more realistic chance of happening. All they'd have to do is maybe re-size Chrom, make a few alternate colors, do some voice work, and they're done. Heck, regardless, with smash hacking these days you could easily do it yourself, given that there's already a great model of Chrom in smash 4.

Personally, if he was playable is some fashion, yes, I'd be happy. However, we can push for him to be his own separate character. Lucina (a straight clone) got a character slot, why not Chrom. DLC could do a lot of things, and Sakurai has changed his mind about characters before.

So like Michiah and Ike in Radiant Dawn again=??? (why didn't I notice this before=???)

No...not quite like that. Chrom and Robin are both main characters for the entirety of the game (no matter who you think is more important than the other).

 

[ihskeyp]

Personally, if he was playable is some fashion, yes, I'd be happy. However, we can push for him to be his own separate character. Lucina (a straight clone) got a character slot, why not Chrom. DLC could do a lot of things, and Sakurai has changed his mind about characters before.


No...not quite like that. Chrom and Robin are both main characters for the entirety of the game (no matter who you think is more important than the other).

Lucina got a 'slot' BECAUSE she is a clone. She got in solely because she had a model, and could be made slightly different. She didn't take his spot or anything, she wasn't even originally planned for the roster, she was an alt, and was easily made a character. She didn't take anything away from Chrom, Robin was the character who was going to rep awakening, Chrom was probably planned as a final smash before Lucina was even an actual character.

 

[Deviddo]

I never said Lucina took Chrom's slot, I'm saying if Lucina can be a clone, Chrom can get in one way or another.
I know full well Lucina's backstory concerning SSB4.

 

[guedes the brawler]

You know, i've already said about how a Chrom + Robin pair-up would be the best thing for an awakening rep... but with both robin and Lucina taken, and Frederick being a horseman, a pair-up for Chrom would be unviable, right?



but then i though... what about Lissa? Between Heal, ward and Rescue, there is plenty that can be done with her.

She could cast Heal once or twice if you do one taunt near her (10 to 15%), and cast Ward on Chrom once he reaches the 120% mark (could decrease damage/knockback taken by 20% for 10 seconds or so), and if Chrom is put on a situation where he can't recover with aether, lissa could cast rescue (Once per match, could be automatic but take a slight while to cast, so if Chrom is sent flying too fast...)

 

[Johnknight1]

Personally, if he was playable is some fashion, yes, I'd be happy. However, we can push for him to be his own separate character. Lucina (a straight clone) got a character slot, why not Chrom.

Because clones are easy to add, and Lucina could more easily be designed as a clone of Marth (since Marth is completely different). After all, Lucina did pretend to be Marth.

Because Lucina generally speaking had a more positive reception by both the Fire Emblem fanbase and Smash fanbase.

DLC could do a lot of things, and Sakurai has changed his mind about characters before.

Not after a trailer was made of straight up burying a character and deconfirming them in every way possible.

No...not quite like that. Chrom and Robin are both main characters for the entirety of the game (no matter who you think is more important than the other).

Yeah, but people back in the pre-Brawl days before that August update (wow it's been 7 years, lol! I feel old!) that confirmed Ike thought Michiah could get in over him.

===

Overall what I'm getting at is this movement should be more realistic about things. Asking for Chrom as an alternate character for Marth or Lucina would garner IMO a bigger audience and would be easier to do. Literally they have a great model ready. All they would need to do is make multiple colors for Chrom, and then, y'all can finally get your wish to OFFICIALLY play as Chrom.

Sure it might not be how you originally wanted it, but hey, it's a lot better than the way the Starfy fans keep getting shafted (on Christmas day no less).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

- The character's inclusion must make people want to buy the game.
Sure a lot of people expected Chrom, but not a lot of people wanted him, so most people wouldn't but the game JUST to see him
.

Actually, the criteria was that the characters's inclusion must make people want to play the game. He said nothing about having to make people buy it.