Adi
Smash Lord
I bet if they reduced the damage ratio to .5 we could get some pretty sick combos.
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An interesting discovery about High Gravity mode
- Thread starter SGX
- Start date
S2
Smash Lord
The best thing Gimpy said was that we should start with everything on and then see what's broken.
I disliked items in Melee, but yeah, Brawl needs a fair chance to see what's balanced and what's not.
I disliked items in Melee, but yeah, Brawl needs a fair chance to see what's balanced and what's not.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
No, I haven't played Brawl. Thing is..neither have most of you. So everyone is fussing because of what some people say while a lot of great players from Melee are saying it is very fun and will be competitive.
Toadster5
Smash Journeyman
I think the main point of this thread is to let people know that this mode is an option, and it wouldn't hurt to consider it. I don't think the thread creator was making judgments about the competitiveness of standard Brawl.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
I fully understand that it is an option, and I appreciate the creator's efforts to inform us about it. However, it is plain to see that the creator also wants Brawl to be like Melee by his description. He enjoys it because a lot of the things that were effective in Melee work in similar fashion with this mode.
This isn't a bad thing arguably, but Brawl is a new game. I recall when I first played Melee that I did not like it very much because it was so different from 64. It grew on me, and I think Brawl will do the same if people just give it a chance. People like gimpy have logged in tons and tons of matches. I'd bet money they were skeptical at first but adjusted to the new game and began enjoying themselves.
This isn't a bad thing arguably, but Brawl is a new game. I recall when I first played Melee that I did not like it very much because it was so different from 64. It grew on me, and I think Brawl will do the same if people just give it a chance. People like gimpy have logged in tons and tons of matches. I'd bet money they were skeptical at first but adjusted to the new game and began enjoying themselves.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
I feel if when Melee came out there was a mode to make it like Smash 64 and the majority of the community signed on to it that Melee never would of became the game it was to people who now love it so dearly.
"Forget Melee it's too fast and they fall so quick"
I'm sure many of you see where I am coming from with my view.
"Forget Melee it's too fast and they fall so quick"
I'm sure many of you see where I am coming from with my view.
Lightning Ice
Smash Journeyman
Some people might like Brawl to be more like melee with faster gameplay and some people might want it slower and more like N64 smash. Just because something is similar doesn't mean it is bad and if you don't like it play against people who like the way you play. With online you have no excuse for not being able to find people who can play with the same rules you do.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
^ This is true Lightning Ice, but I am talking about the tourney scene as well. I believe traditional Brawl should be the standard for tournaments unless Brawl is proven to be truly unplayable at a competitive level, which from the looks of it will never happen.
****it people this is a game! Certain people wanna play however they wanna play. Some people like the playstyle of Melee, so why the heck shouldn't they be allowed to play it their way if they can?
The point of this thread was to try to show something a person thought would make the game more fun to others. If you don't like the way others play then play your own way. If you hate the competitive scene so much play at home with your friends who enjoy the same type of play you enjoy.
The features put in the game weren't put in just for the hell of it, they were put in to make the game more flexible to EVERYONE. Now stop the naysaying and go wait for Brawl so that you can have fun instead of putting others down for them trying to have their own fun.
The point of this thread was to try to show something a person thought would make the game more fun to others. If you don't like the way others play then play your own way. If you hate the competitive scene so much play at home with your friends who enjoy the same type of play you enjoy.
The features put in the game weren't put in just for the hell of it, they were put in to make the game more flexible to EVERYONE. Now stop the naysaying and go wait for Brawl so that you can have fun instead of putting others down for them trying to have their own fun.
Toadster5
Smash Journeyman
What if high gravity brawl is more balanced than standard brawl for 1v1 no items? Sure standard brawl would still be playable and competitive, but would it be worth it to stick with it just because it works? Standard brawl was developed with a focus on four players with items enabled. (This is pure speculation. I am not making an conclusions about character balance.)
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
I think the biggest problem with using this mode would be the MASSIVE gap that would be placed in between casual and competitive players.
In Melee, the gap between casual and competitive was skill and proper use of advanced techniques. All the "changes" that were made in the comeptitive scene were only implemented to reduce the element of randomness. Nothing fundamental about the way the physics and mechanics of the game were changed at all. And, the most important thing of all, if casual players wanted to turn competitive, all they had to do was learn the ATs and practice with the fundamentals they've been working with all along.
However, this "gravity" thing fundamentally at its core changes the way the game works. Everything becomes more combo heavy. Horizontal KOs are much more dangerous and common. Heavy-falling characters with lag on landing, like Snake and Donkey, will suffer greatly without L-cancelling in this game. But most of all, and what I fear most, will be the massive canyon casual players would have to cross in order to even get used to being competitive at all. They'd have to switch to what is fundamentally at its core a new fighting system. It'd be like picking up another edition of Smash with different physics, and I think that'll just create a greater isolation between the casuals and the competitives.
I'm a casual player that sometimes plays somewhat competitively (I've no ground with which to brag about my competitive skills at all >_<), and I've always really admired the skills of competitive players. The great thing about Melee for me was that I could easily play casually with my friends while at the same time switch into a competitive mode whenever I felt like it as I'm playing the same game! There's no difficulty in switching modes simply because it's matter of working with the same fundamental physics.
However, switching physics like with the high gravity thing going to be a big change that'll make it hard to adapt back and forth. I mean, look at the way Isai plays Melee after a few days of SSB64; he can barely play better than me! I'm not saying Isai is bad, because he's not (he's obviously phenomenal), but it DOES demonstrate how a completely different physics engine completely affects the way a game can be played.
Aside from that, overall, it just feels very wrong. I mean, if this kind of tweaking is such a big issue, then why didn't we do it for Melee by modifying damage ratios and such? (or was I just not there when that was happening?) I remember when I first picked up Melee, it, too, felt very strange to me. Whenever I went back to SSB64 during that time, it felt so much better, and I'm sure it's something very similar that all these pro-high-gravity people are saying right now. But the game hasn't even been out for a week, and already people are trying to find ways to make it feel like Melee again. I say give it time before trying out some other way to make it competitive.
Please don't interpret this as being antagonistic in any way. I'm just...trying to make a point here.
P.S. Also, does high-gravity mode even work online? I know tournaments won't be played online, but if this high-gravity mode becomes the tournament standard, I can only see even more isolation of the competitive scene from the casual scene.
Overall...*sigh*. I really wish people would just give the regular game a chance before yearning for ways to change what is essentially its *last time* fundamental core, the physics engine.
In Melee, the gap between casual and competitive was skill and proper use of advanced techniques. All the "changes" that were made in the comeptitive scene were only implemented to reduce the element of randomness. Nothing fundamental about the way the physics and mechanics of the game were changed at all. And, the most important thing of all, if casual players wanted to turn competitive, all they had to do was learn the ATs and practice with the fundamentals they've been working with all along.
However, this "gravity" thing fundamentally at its core changes the way the game works. Everything becomes more combo heavy. Horizontal KOs are much more dangerous and common. Heavy-falling characters with lag on landing, like Snake and Donkey, will suffer greatly without L-cancelling in this game. But most of all, and what I fear most, will be the massive canyon casual players would have to cross in order to even get used to being competitive at all. They'd have to switch to what is fundamentally at its core a new fighting system. It'd be like picking up another edition of Smash with different physics, and I think that'll just create a greater isolation between the casuals and the competitives.
I'm a casual player that sometimes plays somewhat competitively (I've no ground with which to brag about my competitive skills at all >_<), and I've always really admired the skills of competitive players. The great thing about Melee for me was that I could easily play casually with my friends while at the same time switch into a competitive mode whenever I felt like it as I'm playing the same game! There's no difficulty in switching modes simply because it's matter of working with the same fundamental physics.
However, switching physics like with the high gravity thing going to be a big change that'll make it hard to adapt back and forth. I mean, look at the way Isai plays Melee after a few days of SSB64; he can barely play better than me! I'm not saying Isai is bad, because he's not (he's obviously phenomenal), but it DOES demonstrate how a completely different physics engine completely affects the way a game can be played.
Aside from that, overall, it just feels very wrong. I mean, if this kind of tweaking is such a big issue, then why didn't we do it for Melee by modifying damage ratios and such? (or was I just not there when that was happening?) I remember when I first picked up Melee, it, too, felt very strange to me. Whenever I went back to SSB64 during that time, it felt so much better, and I'm sure it's something very similar that all these pro-high-gravity people are saying right now. But the game hasn't even been out for a week, and already people are trying to find ways to make it feel like Melee again. I say give it time before trying out some other way to make it competitive.
Please don't interpret this as being antagonistic in any way. I'm just...trying to make a point here.
P.S. Also, does high-gravity mode even work online? I know tournaments won't be played online, but if this high-gravity mode becomes the tournament standard, I can only see even more isolation of the competitive scene from the casual scene.
Overall...*sigh*. I really wish people would just give the regular game a chance before yearning for ways to change what is essentially its *last time* fundamental core, the physics engine.
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
Not trying to put anyone down, and I don't think the mode is a bad idea. People just aren't giving Brawl a fair chance and majority haven't even touched it yet. You already got people talking about this mode being the tourney standard, and no matter how you slice it that just shouldn't be the mentality right now when it's so new and people haven't been given a chance to adjust to really adjust to it(refer to Smash 64 to Melee reference).
Darkpaladin of Chaos
Smash Lord
Or you could stop trying to make this game be Melee. You could try viewing this game as a separate one from its predecessor. This is a new game. Live with it.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
Honestly, I think the only way to settle this would be for the dudes from the Back Room to swoop in and tell us what they think, since everyone, at least everyone competitive, seems to trust their opinions.
hunger!
Smash Champion
i dont trust most mods since most of them are NOT competitive players
VersatileBJN
Smash Ace
I can see what you are saying, but there was probably ways to manipulate Melee to make it more balanced as well, but people still played it without altering(besides items of course).
Besides, Brawl is looking so balanced right now.
Rose Monkey
Smash Apprentice
lol hay gais lets make the game melee and give all the advantage again to fox and falco and make it standard for tourneys.
Kio Iranez
Smash Ace
True, though I think you mean the Smash Back Room. That's where the competitive players decide this stuff. The Back Room is for SWF in general.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
Yes, I meant the Smash Back Room. I didn't even know there was more than one Smash Back Room. But then again, this is the only forum I pretty much look at.
S0crat3s
Smash Apprentice
And for those who think Brawl is too slow, it's called "Lightning Mode"...
Norm
Smash Lord
it will take getting used to once everyone is down with the flow of the game there will be amazing matches taking place.
pirkid
Smash Lord
Do you guys NOT remember Special Brawl?
How can you forget the Stamina Mega Flower Curry Heavy Slow Angled Brawl!
Heavy = High Grav
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/various04.html
How can you forget the Stamina Mega Flower Curry Heavy Slow Angled Brawl!
Heavy = High Grav
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/various/various04.html
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
We remember...that's why we're discussing it.
While I do like the fact that people are looking at ways to make this game better or a lot more fun. Throwing in the word competitiveness to try and make everything seem alright when your trying to turn brawl into melee 2.0 is a little bit messed up.
Personally I think the competitive scene is better when it itself is evolving, it evolved from original ssb64 to end 64... same thing when it made the jump to melee... and it evolved once again with all that extra time in melee... but now that its trying to evolve once again into something that might possibly be even more competitive once more is learned about it than melee was.
Some people freak out, its ok though you know why, same thing happened for the jump to melee from 64, some people will stay behind and some will try to adapt the new game to the last game as close as possible. Its expected because some people fear change and try to grab on to something they are use to... Others they want brawl to be melee so much it sometimes feels like they want it to me exactly like melee 2.0 cause they put in all that time to learn the ADV Techs and shouldn't have to figure out new ones.
When people do that it just makes it seem like they don't want to evolve anymore, or they are to lazy or unwilling to accept change. Even before giving brawl any actual regular playing time, it makes you seem so close minded and simple its just plain stupid... Is there a deeper reason why you guys want it to be melee 2.0 besides that you feel brawl doesn't have a chance to be the game that melee was... or its something childish that you for some reason feel that with this new way of play you deep down feel that you might be on the same level as the casuals again to start... which just seems plain silly to me.
In the end this is probably just some useless rant that will be picked apart by those people who just don't want to adopt the thought of a new competitive scene (picked apart even more when you consider this was spur of moment response, should be fun I guess). I guess it doesn't matter but geeze I just had to get this out there, have fun. I do hope you all find the best way to play. =)
And to the Topic Creator... Nice find obviously, but I think there might be other ways to make brawl a better game than melee instead of cloning it into melee its just those ways are going to take a little more time than cloning.
Final regardless of everything I just said the next year should be an interesting year for smash, I am indeed looking forward to it. =)
Personally I think the competitive scene is better when it itself is evolving, it evolved from original ssb64 to end 64... same thing when it made the jump to melee... and it evolved once again with all that extra time in melee... but now that its trying to evolve once again into something that might possibly be even more competitive once more is learned about it than melee was.
Some people freak out, its ok though you know why, same thing happened for the jump to melee from 64, some people will stay behind and some will try to adapt the new game to the last game as close as possible. Its expected because some people fear change and try to grab on to something they are use to... Others they want brawl to be melee so much it sometimes feels like they want it to me exactly like melee 2.0 cause they put in all that time to learn the ADV Techs and shouldn't have to figure out new ones.
When people do that it just makes it seem like they don't want to evolve anymore, or they are to lazy or unwilling to accept change. Even before giving brawl any actual regular playing time, it makes you seem so close minded and simple its just plain stupid... Is there a deeper reason why you guys want it to be melee 2.0 besides that you feel brawl doesn't have a chance to be the game that melee was... or its something childish that you for some reason feel that with this new way of play you deep down feel that you might be on the same level as the casuals again to start... which just seems plain silly to me.
In the end this is probably just some useless rant that will be picked apart by those people who just don't want to adopt the thought of a new competitive scene (picked apart even more when you consider this was spur of moment response, should be fun I guess). I guess it doesn't matter but geeze I just had to get this out there, have fun. I do hope you all find the best way to play. =)
And to the Topic Creator... Nice find obviously, but I think there might be other ways to make brawl a better game than melee instead of cloning it into melee its just those ways are going to take a little more time than cloning.
Final regardless of everything I just said the next year should be an interesting year for smash, I am indeed looking forward to it. =)
as much as i wanted to come in here and proclaim how stupid of an idea this is, the Falcon/DK video made me a believer. Well not a true believer per se, but it certainly piqued my interest. It's undeniable that the game LOOKS 100 times better with the high gravity on. But what effect this would have on the currently-balanced-around-floaty-characters game that we have is undetermined but probably not a good thing. If this were to make it where virtually only speedy/low lag characters could compete at high level like in Melee (key word: virtually) then i'm totally against it, regardless of any strong points it might have.
But at this point, who knows.....
i'll definitely be following developments on this
But at this point, who knows.....
i'll definitely be following developments on this
K1T3
Smash Lord
This looks really cool and should be looked into further. Also add the vids to the first post and try to get more up so we can make a better analysis.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
From what I can gather from a lot of the competitive vids for Brawl (I've been looking at a bunch), a lot of cool stuff comes down to air battles which culminate to edge-fighting, which I think is really cool since it makes you struggle for the kill/survival.
Just to point out a few particulars, Luigi seems to have really amazing and unpredictable recovery, so it turns into mindgames for the opponent to figure out how to seal the kill off-stage. Marth's Up+B seems to be a better kill move than in Melee (I'm not completely sure on this), and a lot of it seems to be forcing the opponent of the stage at a 30-degree angle combined with a bit of chasing or edge-guarding while the opponent tries to find a crafty way to come back. As for Pit, a LOT of his potential seems to be in his ability to just jump of the stage, let loose a few arrows, exchange a few hits if the opponent decides to follow, and then recover from MAGNIFIED BELOW THE STAGE with his Up+B. I think that's very exciting.
I can't garner very much from the few vids of Heavy Brawl being shown here, but all I'm seeing is combo combo combo then kill move. I'm not finding that very appealing.
Just to point out a few particulars, Luigi seems to have really amazing and unpredictable recovery, so it turns into mindgames for the opponent to figure out how to seal the kill off-stage. Marth's Up+B seems to be a better kill move than in Melee (I'm not completely sure on this), and a lot of it seems to be forcing the opponent of the stage at a 30-degree angle combined with a bit of chasing or edge-guarding while the opponent tries to find a crafty way to come back. As for Pit, a LOT of his potential seems to be in his ability to just jump of the stage, let loose a few arrows, exchange a few hits if the opponent decides to follow, and then recover from MAGNIFIED BELOW THE STAGE with his Up+B. I think that's very exciting.
I can't garner very much from the few vids of Heavy Brawl being shown here, but all I'm seeing is combo combo combo then kill move. I'm not finding that very appealing.
SSB64 wasn't competitive. nope. still isn't. never will be. melee was because it added a whole bunch of things. brawl took them out without adding much back to the mix. outlook isn't good on brawl being competitive but who knows. we'll just have to wait.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
How could SSB64 not have been competitive? Where would we have gotten the name "Isai" without SSB64?
At the same time, how do you know Brawl "added" nothing to the mix? Wavedashing wasn't even intentionally added, yet it was still there. There is quite a high possibility that there are similar exploits to be discovered in Brawl's engine if people would give it a chance instead of just jumping on the first boat to Melee 2.0-land.
Maybe, y'know, we could do something crazy like...try playing Brawl for more than a week to wait and see if Brawl can't be competitive. And already, from videos I'm seeing, Brawl is turning out to be quite competitive: there are clear front-runners in the videos I've seen.
At the same time, how do you know Brawl "added" nothing to the mix? Wavedashing wasn't even intentionally added, yet it was still there. There is quite a high possibility that there are similar exploits to be discovered in Brawl's engine if people would give it a chance instead of just jumping on the first boat to Melee 2.0-land.
Maybe, y'know, we could do something crazy like...try playing Brawl for more than a week to wait and see if Brawl can't be competitive. And already, from videos I'm seeing, Brawl is turning out to be quite competitive: there are clear front-runners in the videos I've seen.
Kio Iranez
Smash Ace
Lol, seriously now? That's just silly.
It was competitive, but smash wasn't as big back then. Now, the community has grown substantially, so no matter what we go with, it will be competitive.
Also, DRaGZ makes a good point. We can discover great new things, yet most would rather be impatient. :\
spindash
Smash Ace
Ahem... Attention, fellow Smash Bros. players, please stay tuned for a very important announcement.
...
**** high gravity. Play Brawl, not Melee 2.0.
Again, **** high gravity. That is all.
...
**** high gravity. Play Brawl, not Melee 2.0.
Again, **** high gravity. That is all.
tbh don't know much about SSB64 except that you can get close to the peak of the metagame with just a few instructional tips.
I think it had something to do with how broken some of the characters were and an over abundance of inescapable zero to death combos. Almost zero tech skill when compared to melee and such made for a shallow game.
Did Isai make his name in melee or 64? I know he's famous in both. I didn't hear about him till he broke that Sheik BTT WR oh so many years ago.
Edit - I promise you it wasn't competitive. Not because of the following it had but because of the gameplay. M2K made a good post concerning this how he was competing with the best after about an hour of practice in 64.
When I say Brawl probably won't be competitive I mean in the sense like MLG competitive. Doesn't matter how large a following it has if the game doesn't have the depth.
Edit2 - Not trying to say it won't be competitive. Just saying all evidence we have is pointing in a bad way.
64 --> Melee = spot dodge, aerial dodge, DI (to name just a FEW of those that were apparent after playing the game for like half an hour)
Nothing was taken out
Melee --> Brawl = footstool, multiple air dodges... (I honestly cannot think of anymore someone help me out here)
Lcanceling, directional air dodges, crouch cancelling... to name just a FEW of the things that were removed.
I'll say it again. we're gonna have to wait to see but outlook is not good.
I think it had something to do with how broken some of the characters were and an over abundance of inescapable zero to death combos. Almost zero tech skill when compared to melee and such made for a shallow game.
Did Isai make his name in melee or 64? I know he's famous in both. I didn't hear about him till he broke that Sheik BTT WR oh so many years ago.
Edit - I promise you it wasn't competitive. Not because of the following it had but because of the gameplay. M2K made a good post concerning this how he was competing with the best after about an hour of practice in 64.
When I say Brawl probably won't be competitive I mean in the sense like MLG competitive. Doesn't matter how large a following it has if the game doesn't have the depth.
Edit2 - Not trying to say it won't be competitive. Just saying all evidence we have is pointing in a bad way.
64 --> Melee = spot dodge, aerial dodge, DI (to name just a FEW of those that were apparent after playing the game for like half an hour)
Nothing was taken out
Melee --> Brawl = footstool, multiple air dodges... (I honestly cannot think of anymore someone help me out here)
Lcanceling, directional air dodges, crouch cancelling... to name just a FEW of the things that were removed.
I'll say it again. we're gonna have to wait to see but outlook is not good.
Lightning Ice
Smash Journeyman
Sure it might look like it isn't competitive now but it took melee plenty of time to get wavedashing and a lot of the other advance techs. Besides new stuff is getting found every day for Brawl so I don't think we need to worry about Brawl not being competitive.
Also what is up with making characters fall faster and instantly this game is Melee 2.0? I think we should give every possible option in Brawl a try and if standard Brawl just isn't working out we have something that might.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
But Lightning Ice, from what I can gather, standard Brawl seems to be working out great!
Look, I know a lot of people miss fast gameplay. People went through the same thing when they switched to Melee: people missed the floatiness and were taken aback by the speed. It's just a matter of getting used to it and then realizing that it's actually pretty awesome.
Honestly people, doesn't it make more sense to give the standard Brawl a chance, that is at least half a year so a metagame can be set up at all, before jumping right onto the Melee 2.0 bandwagon?
Look, I know a lot of people miss fast gameplay. People went through the same thing when they switched to Melee: people missed the floatiness and were taken aback by the speed. It's just a matter of getting used to it and then realizing that it's actually pretty awesome.
Honestly people, doesn't it make more sense to give the standard Brawl a chance, that is at least half a year so a metagame can be set up at all, before jumping right onto the Melee 2.0 bandwagon?
Lightning Ice
Smash Journeyman
If it is truly working out great no one would want to make any changes to it. We are still finding out things about Brawl and so we obviously shouldn't be making a decision right away but that doesn't mean we shouldn't consider it an option if we can't get standard Brawl to a competitive point after multiple years whiles High gravity mode wins the hearts of the competitive player. I personally don't think that we will need to use High gravity mode but it is a good alternative.
do you know whyBrawl doesnt seem competitive. Its cus its so much slower paced, chars are so floaty compared to melee its like watching Melee in slow motion. You do a neutral air and you spend half a second watching it happen and float to the ground even if you fast fall. I mean and like what other people have said, Brawl is so babied, give me a break auto sweet spotting.
If your releaseing a new and better game under the same series. You expect it to be somewhat similar. You can totally change the characters, the move sets, stages, options. Dont make the game SLOWER pace. Its like driving a Lambo and then having to inch away at with farming tractor.
Also I think the lack of L-canceling definately makes the game more unbalanced. You have so much time in brawl because of aerial lag and floatiness you have time to laugh and point at the noob and then run to him and grab him. It makes doing any aerial that has lag infeasible.
You see in melee L-canceled made characters like Ganandorf who had a laggy as balls down aerial and side aerial practical in the meta-game.
If anything lack of L-cancel hurts slow chars even more because there is nothing they can do about being slow.
P.S. Since everyone has given me crap about it, I actually do have the game. And this is my opinion based on playing it. Its not like im pulling things out of thin air or from videos
If your releaseing a new and better game under the same series. You expect it to be somewhat similar. You can totally change the characters, the move sets, stages, options. Dont make the game SLOWER pace. Its like driving a Lambo and then having to inch away at with farming tractor.
Also I think the lack of L-canceling definately makes the game more unbalanced. You have so much time in brawl because of aerial lag and floatiness you have time to laugh and point at the noob and then run to him and grab him. It makes doing any aerial that has lag infeasible.
You see in melee L-canceled made characters like Ganandorf who had a laggy as balls down aerial and side aerial practical in the meta-game.
If anything lack of L-cancel hurts slow chars even more because there is nothing they can do about being slow.
P.S. Since everyone has given me crap about it, I actually do have the game. And this is my opinion based on playing it. Its not like im pulling things out of thin air or from videos
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
^Ice Lightning
Okay. I agree. ^_^
SWU:
Auto-sweetspotting, from what I can gather, is forcing people to use ledge-based tactics, so I'm seeing a lot more emphasis on higher-risk ledge-guarding and more mindgames on how a player should recover after grabbing the ledge. It's actually really interesting to watch, especially with a lot of videos on how Marth recovers and re-approaches an aggressive defender.
Also, I think the lack of l-cancelling is a bad thing as well, but it seems to not be much of an issue from the videos I'm seeing. A lot of specific aerials seem to have no landing lag and those that do aren't punishable if they hit correctly, so it comes down to a matter of hitting your opponent correctly, which is a direct correlation with skill.
I think we're starting to see the baby roots of what Brawl's gonna look like.
Okay. I agree. ^_^
SWU:
Auto-sweetspotting, from what I can gather, is forcing people to use ledge-based tactics, so I'm seeing a lot more emphasis on higher-risk ledge-guarding and more mindgames on how a player should recover after grabbing the ledge. It's actually really interesting to watch, especially with a lot of videos on how Marth recovers and re-approaches an aggressive defender.
Also, I think the lack of l-cancelling is a bad thing as well, but it seems to not be much of an issue from the videos I'm seeing. A lot of specific aerials seem to have no landing lag and those that do aren't punishable if they hit correctly, so it comes down to a matter of hitting your opponent correctly, which is a direct correlation with skill.
I think we're starting to see the baby roots of what Brawl's gonna look like.
lol...my bad
To DraGZ:
Actually i kinda agree auto-sweet spotting forces people to learn to edge hog better. I was playing with marth and was kinda getting used to jumping off all the way into the no camera zone to bair and do crazy ****. Its interesting but still, the game is getting way too babied, marth's b-side used to require some bit of timing now you can just spam b-side and you get the full combo, you get auto sweet spot like i said, and the slow down pace.
To DraGZ:
Actually i kinda agree auto-sweet spotting forces people to learn to edge hog better. I was playing with marth and was kinda getting used to jumping off all the way into the no camera zone to bair and do crazy ****. Its interesting but still, the game is getting way too babied, marth's b-side used to require some bit of timing now you can just spam b-side and you get the full combo, you get auto sweet spot like i said, and the slow down pace.