Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I still think that the top 5 may be out of Cloud's reach when you take into account his poor recovery.

 

[(M)]

I still think that the top 5 may be out of Cloud's reach when you take into account his poor recovery.

I expected this comment before entering. How bad is the nerf men? and women

 

[7NATOR]

Just in case you guys don't know you can do sour dair to sweet dair at really low percents. It doesn't kill or anything but it can set them up for a nair stage spike or another dair.

Could you always do this or is it because of the patch

because if it is, Then that means Cloud getting Buffed from getting Nerfed

Like Meta Knight got buffs because he got nerfed.

I don't know

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I expected this comment before entering. How bad is the nerf men? and women

Some of Cloud's attacks have been weakened, but it's not very big when compared to the nerfs that a few other characters have received.

 

[Chalice]

I still think that the top 5 may be out of Cloud's reach when you take into account his poor recovery.

Can't say it feels good to kill a comrade, even if it is for the meta to evolve

https://youtu.be/RQI1JwaNVH8

 

[Skyfox2000]

I think Cloud is maybe in the Top 15. I still don't think he's Top 5 or the best character in Smash. His recovery is just way to predictable and exploitable.

 

[(M)]

Some of Cloud's attacks have been weakened, but it's not very big when compared to the nerfs that a few other characters have received.

I heard Shiek was nerfed. Soooo.. I kinda wanna see that >> << >>

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think Cloud is maybe in the Top 15. I still don't think he's Top 5 or the best character in Smash. His recovery is just way to predictable and exploitable.

The video that Chalice posted pretty much points that out quite well. Cloud didn't even get a single KO against Captain Falcon in that match.

 

[-m0]

Could you always do this or is it because of the patch

because if it is, Then that means Cloud getting Buffed from getting Nerfed

Like Meta Knight got buffs because he got nerfed.

I don't know

Dair didn't get changed so yeah
(M) the nerf isn't bd tbh

The video that Chalice posted pretty much points that out quite well. Cloud didn't even get a single KO against Captain Falcon in that match.

wat

 

[Chalice]

The video that Chalice posted pretty much points that out quite well. Cloud didn't even get a single KO against Captain Falcon in that match.

It wasn't so much as him not getting a KO

The point was that is one of several characters who can **** all over just because of his recovery and lack of ledge snap. Hell, I'd even argue that Falcon has a better recovery.

Since Limit takes longer to charge, despite the charge time being increased only marginally, that leaves more windows of opportunity to get Cloud offstage and bring the Heel of Shame down

 

[-m0]

I heard Shiek was nerfed. Soooo.. I kinda wanna see that >> << >>

Shiek got all the necessary nerfs: nerfed needle and fair range. She's fine now

 

[Chalice]

Following up my earlier post, don't forget that other high tiers exist in this game that were kept from rising only because and was so oppressive and is one of them.

And unfortunately has some bad matchups with these high/mid tiers. We haven't even gotten to who has gotten great buffs and can Hydro Pump gimp us and who is pretty damn scary and even moreso because he has better mobility, enabling him to keep up with Cloud and prevent us from spacing well and camping. His Fair is ridiculous and his Bair is so damn long. Remember Mew2King vs Mew^2? Yeah, not fun

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

At least Captain Falcon's recovery doesn't require specific conditions to be met. Cloud needs Limit Break, or else his recovery is just plain bad. Of course, as bad as Cloud's recovery is, at least it's not as awful as Little Mac's recovery, as Little Mac has absolutely nothing that can improve his recovery (unless you give him certain bonus effects, such as Glider, Double-Jump Boost, and Thistle Jump).

 

[GHNeko]

Just in case you guys don't know you can do sour dair to sweet dair at really low percents. It doesn't kill or anything but it can set them up for a nair stage spike or another dair.

Post a video!

I still think that the top 5 may be out of Cloud's reach when you take into account his poor recovery.

His recovery is not poor. It's too flexible to be poor.

I expected this comment before entering. How bad is the nerf men? and women

Not bad at all.

Walk it off man.

 

[7NATOR]

Yeah, he did not get nerfed bad.

But his Limit charge Time should have been nerfed to 7 seconds because.......



HE's From Final Fantasy 7!

 

[Chalice]

His recovery is not poor. It's too flexible to be poor.

Yes, it's very flexible. I even made a list of ways to mix up our recovery a while back

And it's still super exploitable by some characters

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

His recovery is not poor. It's too flexible to be poor.

Without Limit Break, Cloud's recovery pretty much is poor. And like Chalice said, it is also quite exploitable by certain fighters.

 

[7NATOR]

Without Limit Break, Cloud's recovery pretty much is poor. And like Chalice said, it is also quite exploitable by certain fighters.

But in exchange, he gets a Kamakize attack, which makes his recovery slightly more dangerous

 

[~Skelly~]

I wouldn't count Cloud out of top 5 just yet. It might be hard to reach, but it's not out of our league. Keep in mind that a character's spot on a tier isn't measured solely on a their strengths and weaknesses alone. They play a major part, but they don't necessarily mean a make or break deal. There's also tourney results and vice versa to consider as well.

And Cloud's recovery isn't THAT bad. Exploitable? Yes. Bad? Far from it.

 

[-m0]

At least Captain Falcon's recovery doesn't require specific conditions to be met. Cloud needs Limit Break, or else his recovery is just plain bad. Of course, as bad as Cloud's recovery is, at least it's not as awful as Little Mac's recovery, as Little Mac has absolutely nothing that can improve his recovery (unless you give him certain bonus effects, such as Glider, Double-Jump Boost, and Thistle Jump).

Pretty sure we all know that and saying it over and over wont help

Post a video!



His recovery is not poor. It's too flexible to be poor.



Not bad at all.

Walk it off man.

It's just your standard sour dair combo but I'll post a video tomorrow if you like

 

[Skyfox2000]

Following up my earlier post, don't forget that other high tiers exist in this game that were kept from rising only because and was so oppressive and is one of them.

And unfortunately has some bad matchups with these high/mid tiers. We haven't even gotten to who has gotten great buffs and can Hydro Pump gimp us and who is pretty damn scary and even moreso because he has better mobility, enabling him to keep up with Cloud and prevent us from spacing well and camping. His Fair is ridiculous and his Bair is so damn long. Remember Mew2King vs Mew^2? Yeah, not fun

I've been thinking of the Mewtwo vs Cloud matchup! I don't think it looks too good for us!

What other characters (besides top tiers) do you guys think Cloud struggles with?

 

[GHNeko]

HE's From Final Fantasy 7!

Get out.

Yes, it's very flexible. I even made a list of ways to mix up our recovery a while back

And it's still super exploitable by some characters

it's super exploitable by a handful of characters, but overall because of his flexibility, his recovery is still not poor. It's only poor in select MUs. If you're trying to judge it by lowest common denominator then sure. But I dont think that's the way to go about doing it.

Without Limit Break, Cloud's recovery pretty much is poor. And like Chalice said, it is also quite exploitable by certain fighters.

Even without limit break his recovery is not poor. Admitting to a character's recovery being exploitable by a certain amount of characters only says just that. That it's super exploitable by a certain amount of characters. That doesnt make his recovery in the general sense bad because the exploitation remains match up dependent. And if you want to take those various into consideration, you also have to count stages that allow Cloud a more versatile recovery e.g. walled stages or stages with long ledges.

Pretty sure we all know that and saying it over and over wont help

It's just your standard sour fair combo but I'll post a video tomorrow if you like

Might as well!

 

[Chalice]

I wouldn't count Cloud out of top 5 just yet. It might be hard to reach, but it's not out of our league. Keep in mind that a character's spot on a tier isn't measured solely on a their strengths and weaknesses alone. They play a major part, but they don't necessarily mean a make or break deal. There's also tourney results and vice versa to consider as well.

And Cloud's recovery isn't THAT bad. Exploitable? Yes. Bad? Far from it.

Never did I say that Cloud was bad, his tier list spot is compromised (My video was just in response to Mario and Sonic Guy because he/she? was talking about Cloud's recovery), or that his viability will go down due to other match ups.

Recap on what I've said:

- Don't forget that other characters benefit from the top tier nerfs and they can fight Cloud well due to aformentioned reasons.
- Cloud's recovery is exploitable

That's it lol

 

[7NATOR]

Get out.



it's super exploitable by a handful of characters, but overall because of his flexibility, his recovery is still not poor. It's only poor in select MUs. If you're trying to judge it by lowest common denominator then sure. But I dont think that's the way to go about doing it.



Even without limit break his recovery is not poor. Admitting to a character's recovery being exploitable by a certain amount of characters only says just that. That it's super exploitable by a certain amount of characters. That doesnt make his recovery in the general sense bad because the exploitation remains match up dependent. And if you want to take those various into consideration, you also have to count stages that allow Cloud a more versatile recovery e.g. walled stages or stages with long ledges.



Might as well!

My joke wasn't that bad

Why do people think his recovery is bad
/

 

[Kuraudo]

I am sorry, but that For Glory video was absolutely terrible. That Cloud was not playing optimally. No snapping the ledge with Climhazzard? No DAir pressure? NAir to keep Falcon out?

Cloud's recovery outside of Limit mode is pretty subpar, yes. But it's very diverse all the same. Cloud got nerfed but his mechanics are still amazing. He kept his range and his frame data, aerial Finishing Touch still kills off combos but only a little later and in doubles he is still going to be SSS tier. Tbh? I can still see Cloud being Top 5/10. Half a second longer to charge a Limit Break is an adjustment, not a nerf to be honest.

I will say this, Falcon does great against Cloud if he can put the player on tilt. As long as Cloud doesn't needlessly airdodge around Falcon and remain on the defensive before getting him offstage, it's good.

--

tl;dr, that video of Falcon vs. Cloud wasn't a great example of Cloud's recovery being bad.

 

[Chalice]

I am sorry, but that For Glory video was absolutely terrible. That Cloud was not playing optimally. No snapping the ledge with Climhazzard? No DAir pressure? NAir to keep Falcon out?

Cloud's recovery outside of Limit mode is pretty subpar, yes. But it's very diverse all the same. Cloud got nerfed but his mechanics are still amazing. He kept his range and his frame data, aerial Finishing Touch still kills off combos but only a little later and in doubles he is still going to be SSS tier. Tbh? I can still see Cloud being Top 5/10. Half a second longer to charge a Limit Break is an adjustment, not a nerf to be honest.

I will say this, Falcon does great against Cloud if he can put the player on tilt. As long as Cloud doesn't needlessly airdodge around Falcon and remain on the defensive before getting him offstage, it's good.

--

tl;dr, that video of Falcon vs. Cloud wasn't a great example of Cloud's recovery being bad.

Oh boi explanation time

Look back at my other posts. Did I ever say that the video was a good example? It was originally for fun and then a response to this:

I still think that the top 5 may be out of Cloud's reach when you take into account his poor recovery.

Then all I've been doing is just theorycrafting based on facts lol

High/Mid tiers got buffed, making them more threatening and Cloud does indeed have bad match ups with some of these characters like ROB and Link

Camp with Limit? They'll be shooting stuff at you all day and they want you to approach anyway. Bam, we lost one of the best things about our neutral. Do we still get demolished? No. Is it still hard to win? Hell yeah if the other player is playing optimally too

 

[GHNeko]

Why do people think his recovery is bad

Because people still have week one cloud gimps fresh in their mind and havnt noticed how little players like M2K, Komo, and Tweek get gimped in comparison to how frequently they actually recover.

 

[~Skelly~]

Never did I say that Cloud was bad, his tier list spot is compromised (My video was just in response to Mario and Sonic Guy because he/she? was talking about Cloud's recovery), or that his viability will go down due to other match ups.

Recap on what I've said:

- Don't forget that other characters benefit from the top tier nerfs and they can fight Cloud well due to aformentioned reasons.
- Cloud's recovery is exploitable

That's it lol

I never accused you or anyone else of saying he was bad, haha. I was simply saying that top 5 shouldn't be out of consideration solely because of his recovery.

 

[Chalice]

I never accused you or anyone else of saying he was bad, haha. I was simply saying that top 5 shouldn't be out of consideration solely because of his recovery.

I do in fact believe he has top 5 potential as well. Never did I say he didn't

At the end of the day, playing as Cloud sucks sometimes because our room for error is a lot smaller than others and it costs us more. AKA stocks and our tournament life spans

 

[GHNeko]

Couldnt that sentiment be extended to every character tho?


Dont sweat the small stuff guys.

Let's just keep playing and keep building this dude's meta.

 

[~Skelly~]

At the end of the day, playing as Cloud sucks sometimes because our room for error is a lot smaller than others and it costs us more. AKA stocks and our tournament life spans

And that is why we have these discussions, to help us get around all of the bumps and improve.

Adapt and overcome.

Couldnt that sentiment be extended to every character tho?


Dont sweat the small stuff guys.

Let's just keep playing and keep building this dude's meta.

Amen to that.

 

[Skyfox2000]

Climhazzard isn't a bad recovery and it certainly isn't a good one. It's alright. It's certainly is one of Cloud's greatest weaknesses. If Cloud doesn't Auto-Snap and goes above the ledge and it could certainly lead into a punish. It's also can get pretty predictable on how Cloud is trying to recover even if you do mix it up a bit. This is all without the Limit Break of course. LB Climhazzard is a different story. I think as time goes on and people get use to the Cloud match up more they'll start edgeguarding him more and exploiting his recovery more.

 

[Tino]

Looks like everyone here has been busy, with all this discussion about Cloud's nerfs and ****.

 

[GHNeko]

I want the pain to end Tino.

 

[Tino]

I want the pain to end Tino.

It's painful enough having to see a wall of text here, it's annoying.

Pretty sure we all know that and saying it over and over wont help

Not the first time Mario & Sonic Guy has been repeating the same bull**** over and over again.

 

[GHNeko]

Not the first time Mario & Sonic Guy has been repeating the same bull**** over and over again.

Tino! Stop right there!


That being said; in interest of a topic change.

Have there been any up and coming Cloud players recently?

Also, how many of you guys would be interested in a Cloud Boards online tourney/round robin?

 

[Kuraudo]

Also, how many of you guys would be interested in a Cloud Boards online tourney/round robin?

As long as the #1 rule is that every match must begin with charging your Limit Break. Anime shonen fight scene 101.

 

[Chalice]

Don't forget Up Taunt afterwards

 

[Tino]

Tino! Stop right there!

Whaaat!?! What did I do?

 

[GHNeko]

Don't forget Up Taunt afterwards

Side Taunt best taunt tho.