Sora: A new perspective on why he might make it

I've seen some people throwing around Sora as a character suggestion, and while that is fine by me, I don't really care if he really makes it. But I started thinking about what Sakurai might do, and Sora definitely looks likely. Here is my analysis of what Sakurai has been doing, and the general Japanese perspective that leads to my conclusion:

When Sakurai redesigned Pit, he said that he kept in mind what is "popular" today but he meant popular in the Japanese perspective. Pit looks like he could be out of a Final Fantasy game (kinda), because the whole "young teen" look is the rage in Japan. So this establishes that Sakurai DOES keep in mind what is popular, but mostly in a Japanese perspective.

Kingdom Hearts includes Final Fantasy characters, which are loved worldwide and ESPECIALLY in Japan. Famitsu took a poll and found out that, among the top 10 things that were announced at E3, the Final Fantasy announcements took all the top slots (Snake in Brawl being the only non-Sony announcement in the top 10 was somewhere around 5-6), and FFXII recently recieved a PERFECT score from Famitsu, something only 6 games have ever done before, and is definitely an achievement.

Kingdom Hearts also includes Disney characters, whom are also known worldwide, and appeal to the younger kids as well. We know that Sakurai keeps in mind the wide audience that plays Smash, an example being that Snake doesn't use guns in the game.

Square-Enix and Nintendo have had a rough relationship, which they have been recently trying very hard to refresh. Square-Enix is incredibly popular all around the world, and Nintendo knows that. So from a buisness perspective it also makes sense. And don't forget that Kingdom Hearts is crazy popular, too.

Sora FITS Smash Bros, and he provides a character younger than Marth or Roy that is realistic. A possible replacement for Young Link if they decide to put in the cell-shaded version instead.

I'm sure that there are more points (and I think I had more when I decided to type this up) but this should be good for now.

As a recap:

-Sora's style is popular in Japan, and Sakurai knows that.
-Final Fantasy characters are crazy popular
-Disney characters are also popular, and provide a larger fanbase outside of Japan
-Square and Nintendo are trying to patch up their relationship anyways
-Kingdom Hearts is ALSO very popular
-Sora fits Smash Bros, and can provide a niche that other characters can't fill (or perhaps replace that niche lost if the realistic Young Link is taken out)


What do you guys think?

I never once thought Sora was a bad idea. In fact, I supported it.

My answer is two words: No.

Well, Sora conviently bypasses the "Must have appeared on a Nintendo-console"-rule by having appeared in "Chain of Memories". But, no.

Yuna said:

My answer is two words: No.

Well, Sora conviently bypasses the "Must have appeared on a Nintendo-console"-rule by having appeared in "Chain of Memories". But, no.

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a) That was one word.

b) Care to elaborate on why?

It would mean good buisness for both companies, but no. Maybe if Square Enix and Nintendo patch things up, FF characters could be in the next Smash after Brawl. Wohoo! First post of summer vacation.

C'mon guys, lets have some constructive conversations here! I still don't see why he won't make it as nobody points out why

You said it yourself, they have had a bad relationship. Putting FF characters in Brawl is like getting married right after getting over a big fight (example: cheating) or something like that.

Sora and Riku for Brawl! I don't see why they can't add them to Brawl.

I didn't say FF characters, I said Sora ^_^

I'll admit that I dont really know who Sora is. I do know that he/she is property of Square Enix. The companies haven't had good relationships over the years so my arguement still stands.
Edit: Now I remember who Sora is.

Well, I don't think he should be in because he hasn't made a huge impact on any nintendo system. Now I know he has been on the advance game "Chain of Memories", but that game did not make a huge impact on the gameboy advance and did not bring as many players to nintendo consols as other games.

I think most of the people who say no just don't want him in there. I can relate to that, since I don't really want him in there either. I for one don't think Sora fits first of all. Snake is even more out of place though, so that argument is moot. I guess it's just that I can think of a lot of better characters than Sora that could fit in the game, especially third-party characters; Sora basically takes away the "one or two more" third party slot from some other, more deserving character.
Now,as for why I think other third-party characters are better choices, it's the history with Nintendo. I don't like the idea of choosing a character simply because he's popular and one with just some side-story GBA game. The main game isn't even on a Nintendo system (The same could be said for Snake which is why I'm not thrilled about him being in the game either. That's a special case though). Sora would be chosen over Sonic, Megaman, Bomberman, Geno, the Chrono Trigger characters, etc. who I feel should be picked over him. This is all IMO by the way...so it doesn't matter much.

Well, it's definatly not as bad a character selection as say, Master Chief. And it would be kinda cool to fight as Sora, I suppose. I quess we will just have to wait and see

I'm not against the character. I'm against Square Enix as the company behind the character. They have a lot of exclusive RPGs that they have to make for the Wii to get back on my good side.

Hm... Perhaps I worded it wrong.

I'm not really talking about who "deserves" to be in the game, or who I "want" to be in the game. I'm taking a very arbitrary and buisness-like viewpoint when I say that I believe Sora is a likely choice for Sakurai and Nintendo to choose as another 3rd party character.

Especially since Megaman, everyone's favorite 3rd party char other than Sonic, has actually lost popularity with the masses. In fact, Capcom has already decided not to make a Megaman game for the Wii because of this. Megaman's creator has come out and said he would love to make another game for the Wii, and he has ideas, but Capcom doesn't want to put too much into Megaman anymore because people are bored.

So does anybody have any similar arguments as mine as to why Sora is or is not a likely candidate?

Well, Sora has a Chance only IF this secret company Sakurai's working with is SquareEnix. Which may be why he's keeping it so secret.

And naming his entourage Sora...is sort of suspicious. As you've said, Pit looks like he could be from a Final Fantasy game. What if Square designed him? :o

I think theres a chance possibly 50/50 percent he could make it, he is a popular character and I think nintendo and Disney have a good enough relationship for him to appear in Brawl after all they both focus on the younger crowd although SSBB is for the older crowd, Square might come through for them the appearance of sora alone would increase sell rates by alot and then because of that they would proabaly make a Nintedo exclusive KH's game ( possibly), the amount of people who sent request's via that website thing possibly helped abit.
Also i think sakurai said he's not just takeing ideas from what is popular in Japan but whats popular all around the world.

First I dont hate Sora just the rest of Kingdom Hearts
In his defense he does fit that popular world over as his is popular in the US from what I can tell. The only problom with using him is you cant include the Disney characters. Since the originated in cartoons there not eligable in any way shape or form. Also dont get your hopes up.

When he said maybe he ment that there might not be another 3rd party c haracter, just Snake. The chances of any one 3rd party character getting in is severly cut by this. Its obvious he wants to focus on Nintendo. Although not imposible, dont be dissapointed if he dosn't make it.

Also Square dosn't hate Nintendo. We cant have a true FF on the console since Sony owns the rights to those. The reason Crystal Chronical isn't stoped is because there made another ddevelopment team and they publish it(whicch Sony cant prevent). Squaree dose like Nintendo. Were getting a DQ on the Wii and the DS is getting a load of Square titles(FF 3 and Dragon quest heos to name a few)

Wow...I never thought about it that way. I wouldn't mind Sora all that much... In fact, I think it would be a good idea. It would introduce him a bit to the people who haven't played KH (including me.)

I am, however, completly opposed to Disney characters in the game. For starters, Disney characters did NOT originate in games. This alone is enough to keep them out... I'm sure someone else could get some more reasons posted up.

Well, if we're just going by popularity and business I'm going to suggest Cloud. While I don't want him in the game, I have to say I'd rather have Cloud than Sora. Cloud's a really popular Square character, probably even more than Sora especially in the US, and he was in KH: CoM too.

I doubt it. There are characters that are much more popular with Nintendo fans that he would probably put in first. Also, Kingdom hearts is really a Sony game. I know that the majority of Metal Gear games were on Playstation, but his creator begged him to be in the game. I think that the only other 3rd party characters are going to be included by Nintendo approaching the other company.

The only reason that Pit looks like he could be from a Final Fantasy game is because he is anime style. I'm sure he just wanted to capture that style because it's very popular in Japan, but I'm sure that he wasn't trying to replicate Square-Enix.

The whole pit looking like an anime or final fantasy character was probably just a coincedence , he does look a lot different from his trophy in melee though, i wouldnt gaurentee some one from square-enix designed his new look.
he only had an update because he is more than 10yrs old from his very first game and only appeared in a cartoon after which only lasted less than 2yrs (im guessing).

Sora has never made an impact on GBA. His biggest impact was on PS2. Chain of Memories was a sidestory that not everyone enjoyed.

Even if SqueEnix's making games for Nintendo, you can still totally tell they're still in bed with PlayStation. They're slaves to Sony and they love being dominated. Smash Brothers is the only popular way to get Sora into a fighting game... But c'mon, Final Fantasy is more popular on the other consoles. That pretty much axes Sora for me, as much as I love Sora.

SamuraiPanda said:

a) That was one word.

b) Care to elaborate on why?

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You fail for you have never seen Disney's Hercules.

In fact now im starting to think micky mouse would have a bigger chance to get on SSBB rather than Sora.
Why? Because Disney has probably had much more games on nintendo consoles than than squaresoft/enix.
but they didnt do very well compared to final fantasy
there was one good game where you had control of donald and micky.
Imagine that Micky versus Mario.

I do believe Sakurai said that the characters had to have been on a Nintendo system beforehand; this would automatically exclude Sora. Also, he said only 1-2 more 3rd party characters; if we assume that Sonic is in (which he most likely will be), that could right there fill up the 3rd party roster. If there was going to be one more 3rd party character, I'd venture that a cahracter like Banjo-Kazooie, someone more Nintendo-like (like Sonic) would be viable, not Sora. Sora would seem too out of place. We know that Snake's been in other stuff before (skateboarding, that other fighting game, etc.), so it's not that big of a surprise, but it doesn't seem like Sora's character at all to be in a game like Smash. I think Sony sees this, and would be wise to preserve their character how he is.

I don't think Sora will be included. Some points that other people on this thread have said are true.

1. Didn't make a big impact on the GBA
2. More worthy 3rd party characters. Geno, Sonic, Banjo-Kazooie
3. Just because he looks like an FF character doesn't mean anything. A lot of anime characters look like they could be from FF.
4. I thought Sora meant something in Japanese, which is probably what Sakurai named it after. Not a character from Kingdom Hearts.
5. Crono, who is from Chrono Trigger, had a MUCH bigger impact on Nintendo history. It's possibly one of the greatest RPGs ever.

What do you guys think?

(btw Kokichi, he was on the GBA in Chain of Memories)

Acutally, you're forgetting the GBA game that came betweek KH and KH2 called KH: Chain of Memories. Thats also the game where Cloud made a cameo, and is why the Cloud-wanters still scream his name.

And Sakurai has also stated that he wants to change the "feel" (he probably means that aesthetically) of the game. Now we have an ultra-realistic Link, a more gritty, down-to-earth Mario, the soldier Snake, and a Samus in a tight leather suit. I'd think a character who looks similar to Pit and originated from a game based in crossovers like Sora would fit better than some of the aformentioned examples. He would also provide a nice alternative to the sword users too because while he has a weapon, he uses a Keyblade.

From a buisness standpoint, I can only see this as an advantage for both Nintendo and Square-Enix. And as Miyamoto said that they may be in conferences with other companies about their characters, it means that the inclusion of the final non-Nintendo characters will most likely be a buisness decision moreso than a decision by just one person.


"You fail for you have never seen Disney's Hercules."

I have...but I guess I didn't get the connection >_<

EDIT: Sorry about the double post ^_^''

Marshigio said:

I don't think Sora will be included. Some points that other people on this thread have said are true.

1. Didn't make a big impact on the GBA
2. More worthy 3rd party characters. Geno, Sonic, Banjo-Kazooie
3. Just because he looks like an FF character doesn't mean anything. A lot of anime characters look like they could be from FF.
4. I thought Sora meant something in Japanese, which is probably what Sakurai named it after. Not a character from Kingdom Hearts.
5. Crono, who is from Chrono Trigger, had a MUCH bigger impact on Nintendo history. It's possibly one of the greatest RPGs ever.

What do you guys think?

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Points 1, 2, and 5 don't really work because you're forgetting one big factor. The last few character inclusions are BUISNESS decisions. So while yes, there are more "deserving" characters, Sora is a currently popular character, so they can milk the KH license for more money via his inclusion.

The other points:

3. I used the connection to FF because it was just easy. You're right when you say that alot of anime characters look like they can be from an FF, but thats because they are based on the style that is currently popular in Japan. This style that is currently popular is best exemplified through the protagonists of Final Fantasy X and XII (Squall to an extent as well), and Sakurai has stated that this currently popular style of character is what he kept in mind when he recreated Pit. And it shows. Thus, another character that has this style is Sora, which was the connection I was making.

4. Sora means sky.



"The whole pit looking like an anime or final fantasy character was probably just a coincedence"

Nope, Sakurai said he did that on purpose because he wanted Pit to look like characters that are popular nowadays.

Another reason pit was changed
''he only had an update because he is more than 10yrs old ''
look at ice climbers

Ok, well I doubt Nintendo would put Sora in when they personally would rather have other 3rd party characters. Nintendo will also be looking to please the fans, and the target audience(people who haven't played Smash)

For example, Sonic. People who haven't played video games, recognize this character the 3rd most(next to Mario and Pac-Man) AND would please the fans.

btw, I'd like Sora to be in this but only as he is in KH2. He just annoyed me in KH1.

Ah yes, but Disney hates Nintendo. xP

It's very true though. We'd need to get SquareEnix's rights for the ever popular Geno. I can see how Sora has a descent shot at it. It's just his shoes make him so big of a target. =P

I'm gonna be honost here, and I'm not a fan of KH at all, but I'd much rather have Sora than Geno.

Marshigio said:

Ok, well I doubt Nintendo would put Sora in when they personally would rather have other 3rd party characters.

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You...know what Nintendo wants?

Marshigio said:

Nintendo will also be looking to please the fans, and the target audience(people who haven't played Smash)

For example, Sonic. People who haven't played video games, recognize this character the 3rd most(next to Mario and Pac-Man) AND would please the fans.

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Technically you're correct in thinking that, but there is a reason why it isn't true. Why do you think they didn't show SSBB during the E3 conference? Well, Satoru Iwata (the president) decided against it, because he wanted to keep the game's announcement seperate from the other games, because SSBB is for more "hardcore gamers." Those are his own words.

Because SSBB does not keep in mind the Wii philosophy, and doesn't even use the controller, so their target audience is NOT people who haven't played games.

This is gonna be my last response for now... I gotta go study.

Wow Disney hate Nintendo ? I didnt know that.

Yeah i think nintendo would rather have much more popular characters
hence sakuria says hes looking for characters who are popular all over the world, so Sonic would have a much bigger chance than Sora who i dont think would be extremly popular every where and hes only appeared in 3 games i think they look for people who have had many more.
Snake has stared in and appeared in many games for almost 20 yrs his first appearance M.G. gear 1987 on MSX later ported to NES which is why he was quickly added sakurai would have probably denied if it wasnt for metal gear 1 and 2.

SamuraiPanda said:

You...know what Nintendo wants?




Technically you're correct in thinking that, but there is a reason why it isn't true. Why do you think they didn't show SSBB during the E3 conference? Well, Satoru Iwata (the president) decided against it, because he wanted to keep the game's announcement seperate from the other games, because SSBB is for more "hardcore gamers." Those are his own words.

Because SSBB does not keep in mind the Wii philosophy, and doesn't even use the controller, so their target audience is NOT people who haven't played games.

This is gonna be my last response for now... I gotta go study.

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You have a good point on how they aren't going for everyone here, I think you pretty much convinced me about that. Not on how Sora would be in this though.

I think this game would sell better if Geno and Sonic were in this over Sora. They're more wanted by SSB players(which is the target audience for this game so I guess that does mean I know what they want doesn't it?), MOST seem to rather play with them over Sora anyway...

Yes but remember he sayed "asking for only popular characters dosn't get me excited.

Although Sorea could work, theres just so many better options, ones that Nintendo will probobly take. Also I doubt he's real keen on more 3rd party. As I said the 3rd party characters have a low chance so Sora's chances arn't soring.

From a buisness standpoint, I can only see this as an advantage for both Nintendo and Square-Enix. And as Miyamoto said that they may be in conferences with other companies about their characters, it means that the inclusion of the final non-Nintendo characters will most likely be a buisness decision moreso than a decision by just one person.

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Right, I don't really think it would be a good business decision. He isn't really very popular with Nintendo fans as some other characters, such as Sonic. Also, it would be marketting a playstation game, which is definitely not something they want to do, too much.

Sakurai obviously wants the characters to have some relation with Nintedo that's why he said there would be no anime characters in it. Why doesn't he just throw in Naruto? I'm sure that would make them lots of money.

Additionally adding Sora would be a pain in the ***. If they wanted to retain the personality of his game, they would probably have to add a whole bunch of Disney stuff and they would have to make deals with Disney for that.

Personally I have a vendetta against anything to do with FF7 and that whole development staff (who also worked on Kingdom Hearts), so I've never been a huge fan of Sora (though I will admit I love the Disney references). Regardless: Sora belongs to Disney, not Squeenix.

Since when does Sora belong to Disney. All Disney essentially did was lend Square Enix the rights to their characters and a horde of their voice actors. Sora is a Square Enix character because Square Enix created Sora.