Infinite Second Jump Recovery List and Discussion [SEPT 7] - 19 videos!

ph00tbag · Jun 2, 2008

Makkun said:
Hahaha how dumb of me. XDDD

I thought it was weird when Ekaru didn't list it.
I think Zamus is the only character I don't really know all the moves for. I think I've played as her once or twice...

But thank you. :D

It's totally understandable. It would certainly make more sense if she did have a zair.

On another note: I've tried doing this with auto-canceled aerials, but I can't seem to get it to work. Does it have to be after the full animation has ended, or can it be done with auto-canceled aerials? If it can, does the timing for the jump have to be more precise or something?

Makkun · Jun 2, 2008

SamuraiPanda said:
Makkun... I've said since I figured out how this worked that fast falling the SJR would make it easier to time as you're controlling when it hits the ground ^_^''

Not only that, but it speeds the ISJR up, which helps juggling more. All-in-all FFISJR > ISJR.

Oh wow I hadn't realized that. O: I feel kinda dumb now. XDD Well it seems you were one of the only ones who knew then! XD Nobody else in the thread had really mentioned it..

@phoot: This is what I really want to know myself... I want to know for sure if it is after the full animation or if it is sometime during the autocancel frame window. I can't really answer that.

We need frame data. )':

??????? · Jun 2, 2008

Makkun said:
But wouldn't that mean after it's been SJR'd, the recovery cape is recovered as well? Or would you use the recovery cape on the way up from the SJR and then the normal cape on the way down and ISJR that?

Yes, but to be honest, I think it could work for the “recovery cape” as well (I haven't had any success yet but there's a strong possibility that the "recovery cape" works if the cape in general already does).

*I’m about 75% sure the cape is a true ISJR but I’ll get back to you once I’ve done more testing with it*

CKaiser · Jun 2, 2008

Well someone should try if you can shield pressure reliably and determine how difficult it is to counter out of shield. Gotta give brawl an approach. Figure out how U-airs out of shield hurt specifically and if you can DI in for a hit and then DI away after the jump.

Makkun · Jun 2, 2008

??????? said:
Yes, but to be honest, I think it could work for the “recovery cape” as well (I haven't had any success yet but there's a strong possibility that the "recovery cape" works if the cape in general already does).

*I’m about 75% sure the cape is a true ISJR but I’ll get back to you once I’ve done more testing with it*

Yeah, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, I was just making sure.

@CKaiser: I can't really test how the technique works in a real match since very few of my friends play and none of them are really that advanced (with Brawl anyway).

Btw I'm out for the night, gotta get some rest for my exams.

Good night everyone. :D

DRaGZ · Jun 2, 2008

Okay, I've gotten it to work with R.O.B. somewhat...and I've concluded that it's nigh-near useless for R.O.B. simply because you can't bust out his aerials as quickly as you would like, which is what his WoP is based on.

Tyr_03 · Jun 2, 2008

Umm this technique can be freaking epic with platforms. Mess around with it on Battlefield. Jump up and through a platform doing your aerial on the way up and space it so you get another jump. It's pretty sweet and if you mess around with where you're landing you can get a lot of control over this.

VersatileBJN · Jun 2, 2008

Hey guys. Ike main here. Just wondering, has any of Ike's aerial been tested yet? I see none of them say "Yes" but only "maybe" and "most likely".

Thanks

Ekaru · Jun 2, 2008

VersatileBJN said:
Hey guys. Ike main here. Just wondering, has any of Ike's aerial been tested yet? I see none of them say "Yes" but only "maybe" and "most likely".

Thanks

My tests has only the bair as a YES. Sorry. XP

EDIT: AND I was using a more accurate version of the OP's test, so... =P

adumbrodeus · Jun 2, 2008

Important potential issue for this tech

Gah, found out about a rather nasty landing glitch, basically for a number of characters if you sweet-spot the ledge from a technique that causes landing lag, the next time you touch the ground after you get in the air, you get the landing lag applied.

Details are here.

So, my question for testing is, how does this effect SJR? Hopefully using the tech cancels the lag, which automatically makes this tech vital to all chars with this glitch.

If the lag is maintained , it's something to know but not particularly worrisome, using the technique will allow you to stall until taking the lag is safe which is definitely gonna be useful if it is the case, but not as useful as canceling the lag.

Worst case scenario, it prevents the AT until the lag is resolved (aka, you attempt to perform the technique and just get grounded and have lag), that would definitely mess with the usefulness of the technique, and it's something we need to know.

Definitely needs testing.

Ekaru · Jun 2, 2008

You can do the AT, but it seems to maintain the lag from the glitch. xP I'll check some more.

EDIT: DEFINATELY keeps the lag from the glitch, BUT you can still do the technique. When you land, you suffer the lag. BUT, it's a lot better than having the lag right in your opponent's face who was edgeguarding and spotdodged your airdodge, resulting in your death.

EDIT2: For those who want to see for themselves, use Fox on FD. Ledgehug, drop down, up B with the right timing. Then do the fastest ledgehop possible (double jump ASAP after dropping down, basically), fair ASAP, and mash the jump button. o.O Weird, actually. But it works. Then do an air dodge buffer near the end of it, and you'll see that instead of shielding immediately like you'd usually do, you suffer the land lag... after going across a huge chunk of FD. >.>

EDIT3: I say Fox because his is the easiest to do by just button mashing after the ledgehop. XD

storm92 · Jun 3, 2008

So could this possibly be a new pseudo-SHFFL?
If it takes away the lag from landing and jumping, couldn't that mean easier comboing?

adumbrodeus · Jun 3, 2008

Ekaru said:
You can do the AT, but it seems to maintain the lag from the glitch. xP I'll check some more.

EDIT: DEFINATELY keeps the lag from the glitch, BUT you can still do the technique. When you land, you suffer the lag. BUT, it's a lot better than having the lag right in your opponent's face who was edgeguarding and spotdodged your airdodge, resulting in your death.

EDIT2: For those who want to see for themselves, use Fox on FD. Ledgehug, drop down, up B with the right timing. Then do the fastest ledgehop possible (double jump ASAP after dropping down, basically), fair ASAP, and mash the jump button. o.O Weird, actually. But it works. Then do an air dodge buffer near the end of it, and you'll see that instead of shielding immediately like you'd usually do, you suffer the land lag... after going across a huge chunk of FD. >.>

EDIT3: I say Fox because his is the easiest to do by just button mashing after the ledgehop. XD

Ok, not as good as I hoped, but better then nothing.

Not as essential as I hoped, but this is definitely gonna be very important to all those characters' metagames.

??????? · Jun 3, 2008

This seems like it would be useful for approaching with Mario's Bair and Dair, and I suppose the cape as well.

Kirio · Jun 3, 2008

Neat findings, hopefully not discovered yet.

I was on BF and screwing around with Dedede. You could deplete all jumps, uair, then fastfall , ISJRing it. This gives Dedede all his jumps back.

Dedede is a wonderful example of practicality. You knock opponent up, juggle with appropriately ISJR'd uair using fastfalling, now if it hits you can follow all the way up for a killing blow, if it misses you now are in the air ready to bair. Sweet stuff.

This seems to have potential but the timing is a little too strict imo

Makkun · Jun 3, 2008

Well it wouldn't interfere with SJR, since with SJR you are never actually touching the ground... or at least I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

I have no idea if it would cancel the glitch or not... but it would at least stall the glitch until you're safe.

Makkun · Jun 3, 2008

Kirio said:
Neat findings, hopefully not discovered yet.

I was on BF and screwing around with Dedede. You could deplete all jumps, uair, then fastfall , ISJRing it. This gives Dedede all his jumps back.

Dedede is a wonderful example of practicality. You knock opponent up, juggle with appropriately ISJR'd uair using fastfalling, now if it hits you can follow all the way up for a killing blow, if it misses you now are in the air ready to bair. Sweet stuff.

This seems to have potential but the timing is a little too strict imo

Yeah, this was known, but I tried it with Dedede for the first time last night, and I REALLY saw how effective it is. Especially since his aerials seem to have larger windows of time to input your jump. OX

old king coal · Jun 3, 2008

sorry this probably sounds noobish, but.... what are the practical uses for this? im confused [/wtf]

Edit: i didnt read the other posts... so it cancels landing lag after an aerial? sounds like l-cancelling. can sum1 explain?

Makkun · Jun 3, 2008

It doesn't cancel the landing lag in the sense of L-cancelling, it cancels lag in the sense that you never touch the ground AFTER the move is finished, and you instantly second-jump again and again without ever touching the ground.

Sliq · Jun 3, 2008

1) Jump (full or short)
2) Second jump (at any time)
3) Perform an aerial
4) Time the aerial so that you land on the ground as the move finishes (similar to autocanceling?)
5) Buffer a jump just before you land on the ground.
6) You should jump up into the air.

So what you are telling me, in order to do this, I need to auto cancel my aerial, which makes theis considerably less useful then canceling the lag on your aerial with a buggy 2nd double jump.

So when you said Ganon could do it, you meant doing the useless fair auto cancel where you have to start on the rise of your double jump AFTER doing a full hop so the move ends before you lag.

I'm displeased with this.

Brahma · Jun 3, 2008

This also apprears quite useful for characters like Snake, whose 2nd jump is higher than his SH or FJ. It can allow him to stay aerial with Dair and Nair.

Falco, who has a short SH, a high FJ, and a 2nd jump somewhere in the middle. It basically allows him another angle of approach.

Penguyen · Jun 3, 2008

Fantastic list! I'm glad to know Peach is able to perform the ISJ with such a small double jump.

Ekaru · Jun 3, 2008

Sliq said:
1) Jump (full or short)
2) Second jump (at any time)
3) Perform an aerial
4) Time the aerial so that you land on the ground as the move finishes (similar to autocanceling?)
5) Buffer a jump just before you land on the ground.
6) You should jump up into the air.

So what you are telling me, in order to do this, I need to auto cancel my aerial, which makes theis considerably less useful then canceling the lag on your aerial with a buggy 2nd double jump.

So when you said Ganon could do it, you meant doing the useless fair auto cancel where you have to start on the rise of your double jump AFTER doing a full hop so the move ends before you lag.

I'm displeased with this.

Huh? He described it wrong, but the move ends BEFORE you land... RIGHT before. >.>. You don't auto cancel your aerial AT ALL. =P Ganon can do it with at least his uair and dair (yes his dair), not sure about the rest. =P It's good for Ganon though, because you don't land, thus you don't have to go through his jump animation again, and his jump animation is... yeah.

tl;dr: Gannon can do it with his dair and uair, the ISJR, at least, AND his bair. If only his fair didn't have that start up and end lag. XP

EDIT: I'd be displeased too if my main had difficulties with this while other characters run around like a cheeta and could potentially spam this all over you. XP *glares at Pikachu*

Inferno_blaze · Jun 3, 2008

This is quite odd, I'll have to look at it more but it doesn't seem to be the same oas bowser's infinijump since that's not just waiting for an aerial to finish, you can just cancel the claw at any point of starting it into a jump. I'll give it a try, sounds like it could be tough. Oh and from what someone said just above me, if you tried to autocancel it, you'd just land right? You have to finish the move BEFORE you land to perform this?

Magus420 · Jun 3, 2008

If it were actually possible for Ganon to somehow ISJR his f-air he'd be able to pressure and break people's shields so easily between that able to hit as you land and d-air on the way up. You could likely d-air them immediately after while they were still stunned from the f-air since you'd be jumping right out of it just after that hit. Then reverse warlock punch them to KO at like 20-30 everytime, lol.

Jeepy Sol · Jun 3, 2008

Here is a video of me ISJR'ing all of Lucario's aerials:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cb8nhIEvCqU

CKaiser · Jun 3, 2008

what happens if you get hit out of it? Sounds like you'd lose your second jump on the way back to the stage. Also the characters that benefit most from this are probably the ones with low second jumps.

3xSwords · Jun 3, 2008

Inferno_blaze said:
This is quite odd, I'll have to look at it more but it doesn't seem to be the same oas bowser's infinijump since that's not just waiting for an aerial to finish, you can just cancel the claw at any point of starting it into a jump. I'll give it a try, sounds like it could be tough. Oh and from what someone said just above me, if you tried to autocancel it, you'd just land right? You have to finish the move BEFORE you land to perform this?

Yeah its definetely different from bowser's. Its like ISJR is one tech and Bowser's is a totally different tech. They both work b/c of the same principle but Bowser's is a glitch that you can cancel the klaw at any point. Really bowser's main don't need to practice ISJR for their aerials b/c the klaw method is so much easier. Of course you can if you want to be stressed

.

@CKaiser: You bring up a good point. You probably would lose your second jump b/c you technically don't have any jumps left any way. This flaw probably only effects characters w/ only 2 jumps b/c multi-jumpers get all their jumps back except the first one.

:034: · Jun 3, 2008

Can somebody enlighten me on how useful this is? Because, I honestly don't see it. We already have aerials that end before hitting the ground in a short hop, meaning you can just as easily jump again. I can only see this as being situationally used for combo's, but even so it doesn't seem very useful to me.

3xSwords · Jun 3, 2008

^Ok no offense to you but too many ppl have been asking this and its starting to get annoying. First off this possible AT has been discovered and thoroughly researched for only like, what, 3-4 days now. So before ppl keep asking for usefulness just be patient b/c we haven't even finished testing this yet and getting the timing down. Once we do, we might be able to see the usefulness. It took wavedashing a long time to be applied effectively so just wait plz.

Bud · Jun 3, 2008

Can DI be used the whole time?/ Has anyone successfully hit a bot with this thing?

3xSwords · Jun 3, 2008

Yes DI does influence where you can go w/ the ISJR. Probably in an actual match. Idk, but I can just throw away a match against a bot just so I can do it once. I mean really please read my previous post. This has been out for only 4 days so don't expect a lot at this point in time, besides testing results.

Sliq · Jun 3, 2008

Ekaru said:
Huh? He described it wrong, but the move ends BEFORE you land... RIGHT before. >.>. You don't auto cancel your aerial AT ALL. =P Ganon can do it with at least his uair and dair (yes his dair), not sure about the rest. =P It's good for Ganon though, because you don't land, thus you don't have to go through his jump animation again, and his jump animation is... yeah.

So if the move has to complete, this makes this even more useless with Ganon, as with AC you can drop some frames on the moves.

It's only uses for Ganon is reverse up air and dair, and you can already full hop dar, double jump dair, aerial down b.

Magus420 said:
If it were actually possible for Ganon to somehow ISJR his f-air he'd be able to pressure and break people's shields so easily between that able to hit as you land and d-air on the way up. You could likely d-air them immediately after while they were still stunned from the f-air since you'd be jumping right out of it just after that hit. Then reverse warlock punch them to KO at like 20-30 everytime, lol.

All I wanted was the fair to be remotely useable, seeing as how it is really laggy, and not really that strong. It's only saving grace is range.

adumbrodeus · Jun 3, 2008

Sliq said:
So if the move has to complete, this makes this even more useless with Ganon, as with AC you can drop some frames on the moves.

It's only uses for Ganon is reverse up air and dair, and you can already full hop dar, double jump dair, aerial down b.

Hey, as I pointed out in the gannondorf forum it definitely helps with the landing lag glitch.

ph00tbag · Jun 3, 2008

To everyone saying that you might as well just use auto-canceled aerials, this is actually better in a way. First of all, even auto-canceled aerials have landing lag. And even normal landing has lag. In Melee, this lag was about four frames. I don't know what it is in Brawl, but it's there, otherwise Zamus' dsmash chain wouldn't work.

What this does, is give aerials zero landing lag, because you never technically land. You can finish one move, and in the next two or three frames, do another one. This is particularly useful for heavyweights, who generally have more standard landing lag than other characters.

Vegeta214 · Jun 3, 2008

you can underline Snake's bair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY6XdYpZkUM

yeah the video was originally made for entertainment purposes, but I thought you could also use this for your thread.

you can fast-fall it and still ISJR by the way.

FS Fantom · Jun 3, 2008

Zamus dmash chain?

What is this?

3xSwords · Jun 3, 2008

^you can keep doing d-smash (infinetely although I think some characters can get out of it) timing it right so that you hit them when they are jumping out from the stun on the previous d-smash. I think that's how it works although I don't play zamus so srry if its wrong explanation.

Monshou_no_Nazo · Jun 3, 2008

Lucario Dair ISJR actually looks quite useful. It actually cancels towards the ground, so it'll actually be useful compared to most ISJR attacks that people would likely just roll under due to how high they are.

Makkun · Jun 3, 2008

Too people who think landing/jumping lag is minimal and that this is useless: Fox and Sheik had very little lag on most aerials in Melee, and yet L-cancelling still helped them IMMENSELY.

And it looks like I need to fix the "Simple Steps" method, taking out the autocancelling part... and yet I'm still not sure. It seems like for some moves, you SJR before the animation ends, but still at the end where the autocancel frames WOULD be. I'll try to clarify in the edit...

Also Lucario aerial and Snake Bair videos added to the main post and credited respectively.

Edit: @Jeepysol: Very impressive video! (: Could you test to see if these are fast fall'able? Also I would REALLY like to know if it is possible to cancel the momentum while going upwards during an ISJR with Lucario's Dair. This could make for some very rapid Dairing!

Infinite Second Jump Recovery List and Discussion [SEPT 7] - 19 videos!

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Smash Legend

Smash Apprentice

Smash Ace

Smash Legend

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Master

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Legend

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ

Smash Apprentice

Free Saltines

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Information

Network