• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
You mean the whole 20 seconds of "hilarity" in the cutscenes at the start of a new game?

@SmashDaddy + Wiseguy's clone debate:

I'd actually go so far as to say that a roster with 39 original movesets has more "characters" than 36 with 9 clones, despite obviously the latter having a larger number of people included in the game.
Yeah, it was the cutscenes I was refering to. But beyond that, I think they are still pretty funny characters - from their appearance and voices to their special moves in certain games (like Mario Tennis). But that's just my opinion.


As for your other comment, I don't quite understand what you're saying. There would be more unique movesets if they went with 39 unique characters, but sacrificing three unique movesets in order to include 9 clones would allow more, not less, characters in the game.

That's not too good a reason. They're pretty much identical, even if it is nice to have a choice between two characters. Clones probably don't take up any spots, at least, of new characters, but broaden the roster with characters that had no time to have their own moveset. Their usefulness is so minuscule in comparison to totally different characters it's ridiculous.
I don't think you're taking into account the popularity of the cloned characters in Melee, Smash Daddy. Sure, it was disapointing initially when it became clear that most of the unlockable characters had movesets based off of other characters, but over time that has ceased to matter. Ganondorf, Luigi, Dr. Mario, Roy and Falco are all popular and widely used characters - and Young Link is even more popular than his original, older incarnation. So, while people will be initially distraught that characters like Wolf, Dark Samus and the Black Knight were included as clones - eventually this will cease to matter as people get used it.

Bottom line: including clones provides a greater slection of characters to choose from - and since characters like Fox and Wolf will control similarly, a player can specialize as one and use the other as a backup character without having to learn a whole new character.

Plus, look at it this way... Since Waluigi has nothing except fillers and sports titles, he's an empty canvas for a moveset to be built. Take into account his stretchy arms and legs, his Bob-bomb antics, and deceptive attitude, and it would be one fun moveset.
Capt. Falcon is living proof that the Smash team can devise a unique and fun moveset when they have the freedom to do wht they want, so if Waluigi gets in (which I still think is pretty unlikely given the stiff competion in the Mario-verse) he could definitely have a great moveset.

That's more of a fault at the Metroid creators more than anyone else. Metroid has very few characters to choose from, while Star Fox has at least a good dozen (only four are worthy of being added, but the point remains.)
In addition to Ridley and Dark Samus, there are also plenty of characters from Metroid Prime: Hunters - that's not my point. What I'm trying to get at is that not all series are created equal, so not all series deserve to have the same number of characters.

Here's the way I see it:
Mario and Zelda are Nintendo'd biggest franchises, so they deserve arounf 5 each. Metroid and Pokemo are also important series, so they each deserve 4. Kirby, Starfox and Donkey all deserve about three because they aren't quite as influential. Finally, Fire Emblem, F-Zero and Earthbound are more niche and deserve two each.

With good reason too. I personally would take Nephenee over any other character in the FE universe, but that's just me.
PoR was filled with great characters and Nephenee is no exception. I neglected her on my first file, by took the time to level her up on my second play through and deiscovered her to be a surprisingly robust and powerful character.

Presonally, I would love to see one of the Laguz as a character in Brawl. They would have two forms: a human and a beast. The beast would be the more powerful, but it staying in that form would demish their beast guage - so the player would have to time their transformations wisely.

Seriously, I predicted Delfino Plaza, and it looks almost exactly as I thought it would work. The only thing missing are the boats with on boat battles, and that statue in the middle is missing. Honestly, when I was 11 I got bored in my math class and drew pics of how that stage would work, and it would involve moving from land, on a platform, to land, to boats, and all over again. Strange, and yet somewhat wierd...:grin:
I've been tossing around the idea of a Stage Predictions thread, but I havn't gotten around to it yet. One of the ones one my list was Delfino Plaza, though I didn't expect it to include a moving platform. Clearly, alot of creative thought has gone into designing these stages, and I couldn't be more excited.


Lugified clones=good for the soul, almost as much as originals. But not Doc-like clones, that wasn' too good, and I bet he was one of the last characters to be complete in Melee, but he's a darn good character. Still, I'd like to see Falco (assuming in the very likely chance he will return, IMO) have a few more original moves, and that gun, and a semi-original B moveset is the wat to start. Now all he needs are a few new A attacks.
Hey, there's nothing wrong with Doc. He is what he is: a carbon copy of Mario - which allows Mario players to choose whether they want their character with Fire Balls or Pills.

Sure, Luigified clones are preferable on the whole, but if Sakurai and team have time to slap together a few Doc-like clones what's the harm?

If falco does return, a few original moves would be great. Maybe a rocket launcher attack?

I suck at it, and I haven't played Tetris DS, though I have played Tetris for gagillions of hours. Poor Russian guy who thought of it, could be a billionaire, but he got screwed over by communism! Seriously the GB Tetris game outsold every GB game, even Pokemon. Now that is a feat worth mentioning=AMAZING!
I'd never played Tetris before in my life, but last summer I was renting Shadow of the Collosus and I decided to rent Tetris DS as well for my sister. To my surprise, I winded up getting hopelessly addicted to Tetris and I actually had to pry myself away from lining up Tetris blocks to beat Shaddow of the Collosus. I did beat it, and the next week I returned both games - but those dang Tetris blocks haunted my thoughts and dreams (a sure sign of Tetris withdrawl) and I wound up buying the game. I have hardly put it down since.

Only someone living in a Communist Dictatorship could have devised a way for making rotating blocks so much fun!


Why remove Marth, there is no reason other than he's Japan only. Also it won't change the game from other games in there series, did SSBM change from SSB64 by removing characters=??? No, it added new modes, features, battle options, stages, and most importantly new characters and advanced tech.

Also, I saw something strange on coolroms. Apparently ALL Fire Emblem games are EBA protected, or in other words are illegal to give out ROMs of them, for free or for money on the internet, without their permission. Maybe that means we'll get the earlier Fire Emblem games for the VC=??? Just thought was intresting, and thought I should metion that=very intresting! ;)
In addition to the fact that Marth is Japanese only, it is also worth noting that he and Ike are extremly similar - in that they are both male swordweilding Fire Embelm lords with blue hair and capes. In my view, only one of them should get in (to make a more diverse roster) and since Ike's game is the more recent, he should be the one.

While its true that no characers were cut from SSB 64, that was because there were only twelve characters in that game. Conversly, there are 26 characters in Melee - and many of them (including Marth) are replacable.

Never thought of it that way. Get SSB64 on the wii's VC, and play it with the GC controller only, then Melee, and lat but not least Brawl, all using the GC controller=uber ownage! That would be intresting, as well as awsome! ;):) Seriously, too bad Melee isn't a ROM with Kaillera online, or has a online version, because you could do this all online. O well, we can still play SSB64 on Kaillera, and WiFi online multiplayer on Brawl is almost guarenteed. *goes back to playing SSB64 on Kaillera*
I'm glad you liked the idea. But don't you see how that kind of makes it unnecessary to keep most of the old characters from Melee in Brawl? By making the Brawl roster as unique as possible, we can have three dramatically different Smash Bros. games - each with their own unique attributes. Characters like G&W don't have to be forgotten, since we can always continue to play them in Melee.

Check out FFVI first. It's my fav FF game yet, and rivals VII and VIII in story and addicting gameplay. Now that is impressive! SNES N64 were the best systems of all time IMO, but soon it will be the Wii. Seriously, the VC with NES, SNES, N64, Genisis, Turbo Graphix, and other console games on it+Wii and GCN disk conpatiblity, is there any doubt=???
I was going to check out FF IV first, but apparantly they are releasing a DS version this year. Seriously, would it kill them to release a new FF in the same vien of the classic games? They could call it Final Fantasy 6.5 or something...


Has there ever been a bad FF game=???
I honestly don't know (this is my first) but I hear FF II wasn't too great.


Because of that icon, my friend told me the Wimote, probably with the Numchuck is confirmed for to be the controls for Brawl. Since he has no idea what he's talkling about, I took a $20 bet against him tha Brawl can use the GCN controller (other than possibly mini-games, of course!). If it uses the Wiimote, with or without the Numchuck (not going to happen), he wins, GCN controller, I win, both=tie. Luckily the CC controller doesn't count, so I think he owns me $20.
Oh yeah, we already had that discussion. You told me about the Wiimote icon last week. Silly me.:dizzy:


Yoshi's Main Games (not including Smash): SMW (as a rideable character), SMW2: Yoshi's Island (with Mario, Bowser Jr., and Luigi), Yoshi's Story (purely Yoshi's game), Super Mario Sunshine (as a rideable character) Yoshi's Island DS (with Mario, Luigi, Bowser Jr., DK, and Wario=totally a Mario game). There's a few other, but they are primaraly Japan only games, or didn't sell to well, or simply weren't very popular.

In other words, Yoshi's Story is the only game not featuring Mario that he stared in alone that sold well and went worldwide. Wario is a diffrent case, but remeber Wario's roots=SML2. ;)
You forgot Yoshi Topsy Turvey, the GBA game where you rotated the game to roll a giant egg on which Yosi rides - another Mario-less Yoshi game. I think we can declare Yoshi the rep of his own series now.


The handheld Zelda's aren't nearly as good as the console ones IMO. So what if the console Pokemon suck (except for Stadium 1+2 IMO), the handhelds have been the #1 selling handheld games for 10 years. Zeldas been around for over 21 years, and it doens't even have 1/4 the sales of Pokemon. Pokemon started a gaming revolution, and a craze we'll probably never see again, or for a long time. That is unless the Pokemon craze is back again, which it could very well could be. Seriously I see like 1/4 the people at my school playing any Pokemon games, every gen=njk. Dja vu, maybe=???

Zelda just was the first game that you could save (outside of Japan at least), and raised the standards for video games several levels up, in which Pokemon did the same thing, but to a lesser extent. In other words, Pokemon revolutinized handhelds systems more than any series, and the Zelda games were amonst the leaders of series that revolutionized console games, as well as a lot with the handhelds (especially Link's Awakening=I love that game!)

Seriously, if you where to do a exam to see who is more reconizable, Mewtwo or Pickachu, or Link, a lot more people would reconize Pickachu, possibly even Mewtwo (because of the blockbuster hit movie) than Link. Point: Pokemon is far bigger, far more reconizable, far more played, and could very well be more popular. If you don't appreciate all that Pokemon has done for video gaming, you are crazy!
But has the Pokemon series really changed all that much since the first game? The Zelda series has set the standard for 8-bit, 16-bit and 3-D adventures and set numerous game conventions (like OoT's revolutionary lock-on system) wheras Pokemon took the tried and true RPG format and perfected it on the handheld - and then replicated the same exact format for the next game. Face it, Pokemon may be cool beans, but hasn't been particularily revolutionary since the first game.


No real current series character has been added as the only rep to smash, at least not since SSB64, unless you include Roy (and Marth, though his last game was like 5 or 6 years old or something like). Just thought I'd mention that. Anyways, Nintendo's, the Wii's, and AC's rep=Mii's=done.
Maybe it hasn't been done in the past, but it seems like the logical way to preceed in the future.

An until the next AC game features Miis (which may not happen until 2008-9) they can't be considered a proper rep for the series.


I've looked at the Mii's a lot, and I can conclude that they are upgraded AC humans, but with Virtual Reality gaming potential. The only villian in AC is that giraff lady who makes you clean her car, and if done right she gives you a present. Other than that all she does is scream and be annoying. Nook's just a guy (or racoon) out to make profits and lincrease living standards, from a trash shop to basically a mall sized store. Now don't we all want to make bank=???? $$$$$ :chuckle:
Nook is the closest thing to a final boss in AC. The whole point is to work your butt off so you can pay Nook, so you can buy a bigger house, which creates an even bigger debt, and so the vicious cycle continues until you've made a house as big as possible.


Falco has a mysterious shrowd surrounding him, plus his past and what he spends his time outside of Star Fox is unknown. I smell a future plot twist coming ahead. I think I explained the Mii's thing well enough above.
What about ROBB? We know even less about his past. Does that make him a mysterious character as well?


But he did kill Tuscan Raiders ruthlessly! ;)

He kills several Jedi Masters and Knights, much of which was cut in the film, but in the game. He kills the Jedi Temple training master and his favorite apprentice in a two on one, and owns them like no other! Plus he destroys thee Trade Federation and their thousands of droids, a sith (forgot her name), and of course he kills Count Dooku. Now how is that not awsome=???
He may have killed Tuscan Radiders, but his bawling afterward made him seem pretty wimpy.

While Anakin did his share of killing, none of his enemies seemed particularily threatening (even Dooku seemed like a pushover, in my view) but the main probelm is his lack of humor. Whatever happened to the dude who who made dry jokes as he force-chocked his minions? ("Apology accepted, Admiral...")


I (*hopefully* along with everyone on the SWF) hope so. If you don't hope we get one by or at E3, you are crazy, or hate smash. Sure they can keep us waiting with showing off Final Smash attack pics, new stages, and awsome songs by those awsome musicians (plus the guy who did that Wii Channel thing=Mii's, maybe=???), but they'll need to give us a trailer pretty soon. Let us hope we get a trailer by or at E3 (fingers crossed so tightly that theyjust fell off! :laugh:)
Here here!


This thread is already too long, but I just have one thing to add: It's the age-old discussion about the dreaded clones...

The debate of their existance has been around since Melee first came out. But I think it's just downright STUPID to say you want no clones. I wouldn't mind if every character had a clone (just like McFox said a long time ago) if it meant we got to have 50-60 playable characters. Just think about Melee and ask yourself if you don't know anyone who played a clone as one of their mains. I play Doc and Falco a lot, one of my friends' mains is Ganondorf, and the main of two other friends are Falco and Y. Link.

Granted, Pichu is lame and must go, but...are you really saying you would rather have only 19 characters in SSBM just for the sake of no clones?? Or, isn't it nice to have a "free" extra character like Doc or someone? They could spend the same amount of time coming up with 5 or 6 clones as they could one original moveset; so, why not please the fans and inclue more characters? I'm all for original movesets, but face it: if they put clones in, we are going to play them...
I couldn't have said it better myself. Well put.


Yeah, whatever ever happened to that? Falco was SUPPOSED to get some sort of game of his own (read stuff about Falco not being in Starfox Adventures, it alludes to Falco getting his own game). I seriously think Falco SHOULD get his own game...He's WAY more popular than the character Fox. They seriously should let him be something more than a Fox McCloud lackey...
Falco is actually my favorite SF character (one of the reasons he was originally on my list...) so I hope we eventually see a Falco spin off.
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
18,966
Location
Livermore, the Bay repping NorCal Smash!
NNID
Johnknight1
3DS FC
3540-0575-1486
.Bottom line: including clones provides a greater slection of characters to choose from - and since characters like Fox and Wolf will control similarly, a player can specialize as one and use the other as a backup character without having to learn a whole new character.
Luigifed clones at least, or clones with the same attacks very unlike th character they are based off (ie: Falco and Fox's bdown hit you the diffrent ways, diffrent b attacks, etc.).

Capt. Falcon is living proof that the Smash team can devise a unique and fun moveset when they have the freedom to do wht they want, so if Waluigi gets in (which I still think is pretty unlikely given the stiff competion in the Mario-verse) he could definitely have a great moveset.
W00t Waluigi is awsome, but I'm not sure he's fit for Brawl. Maybe he'll be a lot bigger, maybe half as big as Wario is now, then he'll be in SSB4. Then he'll totally pwn all!

In addition to Ridley and Dark Samus, there are also plenty of characters from Metroid Prime: Hunters - that's not my point. What I'm trying to get at is that not all series are created equal, so not all series deserve to have the same number of characters.
The Hunters are awsome, though they are all just heavily altered version of Samus, each with their own kick *** twist. Tough Ridley is one of the top 5 most likely characters IMO (and everyone should believe the same), plus Dark Samus is extrmely likely.

Here's the way I see it:
Mario and Zelda are Nintendo'd biggest franchises, so they deserve arounf 5 each. Metroid and Pokemo are also important series, so they each deserve 4. Kirby, Starfox and Donkey all deserve about three because they aren't quite as influential. Finally, Fire Emblem, F-Zero and Earthbound are more niche and deserve two each.
Donkey Kong, not as influential. Seriously, DKC (only the first one) sold 20 million units, 2/5's of the entire LOZ series, and the DKC series totally revolutionized the 2d sidescrolling plattform 3 times, but mainly the first two times. Star Fox has generally help lead the way in the development of ship to ship combat simulators, though Zelda is more important than that. Still DKC was the #2 selling SNES game, only to SMW, which was bundled with the system, exactly like Wii Sports and the Wii.

i've been tossing around the idea of a Stage Predictions thread, but I havn't gotten around to it yet. One of the ones one my list was Delfino Plaza, though I didn't expect it to include a moving platform. Clearly, alot of creative thought has gone into designing these stages, and I couldn't be more excited.
Sounds intresting, there is a lot of character discussion, but stage discussion isn't talked about enough. Seriously, the SWF should have a "stage discussion" under Brawl once Brawl is released, and the Brawl section is redone, sorta like character discussion. Just thought I'd throw that out there, it seems intresting.

Anyways, I did predict Delfino Plaza, and I thought it would use platforms, where you could view the city (hell, when bored in Math class I drew pics, then again that class bored me a lot :grin:) in it's beauty, plus the moving fight is also what I predicted. However, I think it will use the platform more than I predicted, I thought it would use a moving screen more.

Still, we know minimal about it, and we only know it uses platforms, you fight in at least 2 areas of Delfino Plaza, and where are the boats, and more importantly the statue in the center=??? This is probably the best stage I've seen yet IMO, maybe that Castle (probably from FE III, V, or VI) looks pretty good too, along with that other FE course. Also it will be intresting to see how that Kid Icarus stage, Angeland turns out, it looks like it has great potential. Plus it looks beatiful, and translates the Kid Icarus Angeland beatifully!

Hey, there's nothing wrong with Doc. He is what he is: a carbon copy of Mario - which allows Mario players to choose whether they want their character with Fire Balls or Pills.
Plus most players prefer the Pills, but being a bit slower, and weighing a bit more, well it has it's advantages/disadantages.

Sure, Luigified clones are preferable on the whole, but if Sakurai and team have time to slap together a few Doc-like clones what's the harm?
Well unless we see characters with the same name (YLink or WW Link doesn't count) I don't think this will happen. Original movesets create more invigorating and intresting gameplay.

If falco does return, a few original moves would be great. Maybe a rocket launcher attack?
In the posiblity of us having 4 Star Fox reps (or we get Fox, Falco, and Wolf), I think Fox's gun will stay the same, Wolf will get Falco's gun, or something like it, and Falco will get somewhere inbetween that rocket launcher in that pick you have and his old gun. I think that with Falco because Snake already has a rocket or gernade launcher, plus we have the cracker launcher (no racist statement intended to my own race! :laugh:), so it could be like a giant laser or something. If Falco does return, it will be intresting what his gun will be.

I think Fox will be like his Melee self, Wolf will be a combination of Falco's moveset in Melee and Fox's and SSB64, and Falco will be a odd combination of the three, plus a personal twist of course. I do love those personal twists, and at the least we call them luigified!

I'd never played Tetris before in my life, but last summer I was renting Shadow of the Collosus and I decided to rent Tetris DS as well for my sister. To my surprise, I winded up getting hopelessly addicted to Tetris and I actually had to pry myself away from lining up Tetris blocks to beat Shaddow of the Collosus. I did beat it, and the next week I returned both games - but those dang Tetris blocks haunted my thoughts and dreams (a sure sign of Tetris withdrawl) and I wound up buying the game. I have hardly put it down since.
Shadow of the Collosus, I was thinking of getting that plus the GTA and DMC special editions (both with 3 AWSOME games for $20), God Of War, and Shadow of the Collosus. Heck, one of my friends' favorite game is Shadow of the Collosus.

For Tetris, might I recommend therapy of some sort. I need the same thing for my SSB withdrawl! NO YOU'LL NEVER GET ME OFF IT :chuckle:

Anyways, Tetris is friggen awsome, still the most advanced and addictive puzzle game series to date. The one time where commies were smart! :laugh:

Only someone living in a Communist Dictatorship could have devised a way for making rotating blocks so much fun!
One time communism is good. Seriously, you have to be pretty depressed from communism, as well as beat down to come up with this genius idea we know as Tetris!!! For all the other times, yae capitolism=superior in EVERY WAY! (minus Tetris!) :laugh:

In addition to the fact that Marth is Japanese only, it is also worth noting that he and Ike are extremly similar - in that they are both male swordweilding Fire Embelm lords with blue hair and capes. In my view, only one of them should get in (to make a more diverse roster) and since Ike's game is the more recent, he should be the one.
Looks don't mean anything at all, plus I could say the same for Mario, Luigi, and Wario. Ike could have his own original style like Marth did, thus he could be the next top tier. Ike has a bigger sword, probably heavier swinging, and probably a diffrent sword fighting style. Plus all we know about Marth is his Melee moveset, and I know he is virtually more important than almost all other characters in the games he starred in combined.

I played a Rom of FE 1, 2, 3, and 4 at a friend's house, but sadly they were Japanese, and I can't read it, plus all the ROMs stoped working after few hours, except for 2. Anyways, I think we'll ge FE on the VC, and would that change your mind=???

Look at it, Nintendo's biggest franchises ( all Mario, Donkey Kong, LOZ, Metroid, Star Fox, Kirby, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem ) are ESA protected, and all of them bu Kirby, Pokemon, and FE have a VC game of their series released, or planned to be released. Pokemon probably won't get one since it's on handhelds primaraly, and Kirby will get one soon, if it doesn't already.

So I see the Japan only Fire Emblem games, and even somewat possibly Mother 1 could come out on the VC, that is if Nintendo wants to leave a mark this gen by using past gen games we normally wouldn't get or play. That would be smart bussiness, and those game would be amongst the most purchased.

While its true that no characers were cut from SSB 64, that was because there were only twelve characters in that game. Conversly, there are 26 characters in Melee - and many of them (including Marth) are replacable.
Ness was suppose to be replaced by Lucas. I don't think Ness will get cut, he has a strong and loyal fanbase (myself included). I'd like to see Lucas, he is suppose to be like neo-Ness, with some cool moves that Paula had, along with his own moves. But still Ness isn't going to leave the series, probably ever=us members of the cult following will keep loving Earthbound.

I don't see Nintendo trying to be retarted and replacing a character, but I do see them removing clones, and clones only. Maybe a original, but I don't see a character getting removed, then a character with the same moveset being added. Nintendo can be smarter than that, and there is no logic behind it.

I'm glad you liked the idea. But don't you see how that kind of makes it unnecessary to keep most of the old characters from Melee in Brawl? By making the Brawl roster as unique as possible, we can have three dramatically different Smash Bros. games - each with their own unique attributes. Characters like G&W don't have to be forgotten, since we can always continue to play them in Melee.
Let's say you want to have G&W face Wario. This won't be possible, unless you have major game hacking skills, or downloadable content returns G&W. Personally I think seeing characters return to face the new characters is part of wat SSB is all about. C'mon, if let's say you mained G&W, he got cut, and you wanted to cae your friend's main Wario, it wouldn't be possible, and you would wonder about that matchup for a long time.

Besides, people want to play as their fav Nintendo characters (and a few 3rd party characters), along with fight with advanced tech with several characters, and lots of cuts could severly damage the second one. Plus cutting characters like Falco, IC, G&W, Marth, and Ness could screw Brawl over. If all of those characters were to be removed, Melee's tourney circuit would stay strong, as big, or even bigger than Brawl.

Overall Sakurai needs to balance adding new characters that n00bs and diehard SSB players both like, along with cutting carefully and minimally, otherwise the Melee tourney circuit Melee section would be that many people more than Brawl could have had. I think only clones could leave, otherwise what justice does he have than more spots are open. He shouldn't just be worried about people who play a character at most 5 hours, he should also be worried about he people who play a character 200 hours!

I was going to check out FF IV first, but apparantly they are releasing a DS version this year. Seriously, would it kill them to release a new FF in the same vien of the classic games? They could call it Final Fantasy 6.5 or something...
FF IV is awsome, it surprisingly has a great story, very similar to the lines of Link's Awakening. Random, both the 4th of their series. I've yet to play the DS versions of them, but the GBA ones (in which FF I-VI are out) that I have played (I, II, I+II, and IV) are very similar to the originals, but with added stuff. I heard the GBA FF VI had lots of summon name changes, plus they added a few summons.

I honestly don't know (this is my first) but I hear FF II wasn't too great.
FF II can either be FF II or FF IV (FF II or III were Japan only games=evil JAPAN! :mad:), but I've played both, and they are both awsome games. I can just about guarentee you that a lot of fans will have any of the 13 or their remakes as their fav or the series, or fav game of all time.

They are all awsome and amazing games, probably one of the few series that can rival Zelda in exellence and innovation. Seriously, both series have constantly pushed the limits of their genre (for Zelda action-RPG's, and action adventure genre, and FF the RPG and action-RPG genre). Without either of them, video gaming wouldn't be half as good=not exaggerating. And that is just Twilight Princess! :laugh:

Oh yeah, we already had that discussion. You told me about the Wiimote icon last week. Silly me.:dizzy:
Yeah, but I like mentioning that I basically won $20 for free. There is no chance of losing in my case, but there is a small and unlikely chance it's a draw, but more than likely I win=happy me! Who doesn't like free money=yae capitolism! God, now I sound like Tom Nook! :grin:

You forgot Yoshi Topsy Turvey, the GBA game where you rotated the game to roll a giant egg on which Yosi rides - another Mario-less Yoshi game. I think we can declare Yoshi the rep of his own series now.
But it wasn't that big of a hit, and had minimal, if any success at all. Yoshi's Story sold quite well, but nothing compaired to the Mario games. Plus Topsy Turvey hasn't come anywhere near even Yoshi's Story. Wario however, has starred in games that sold extremely well.

But has the Pokemon series really changed all that much since the first game? The Zelda series has set the standard for 8-bit, 16-bit and 3-D adventures and set numerous game conventions (like OoT's revolutionary lock-on system) wheras Pokemon took the tried and true RPG format and perfected it on the handheld - and then replicated the same exact format for the next game. Face it, Pokemon may be cool beans, but hasn't been particularily revolutionary since the first game.
Hmm...online and new sick Pokemon are all I can think of. Pokemon has built upon perfection several times, adding new layers. I could say TP did the same thing, bulit upon perfection that OOT, MM, and WW+it's own personal twist (virtual reality, a new world, a few new weapons). Pokemon D/P add new Pokemon, a new world, online play and trade, and a whole lot of other stuff.

Maybe it hasn't been done in the past, but it seems like the logical way to preceed in the future.
I don't disagree, but I thought that was intresting enough to throw that out there.

An until the next AC game features Miis (which may not happen until 2008-9) they can't be considered a proper rep for the series.
There is a officially announced AC Wii , but all we know is it will be on the Wii, and will work similar to the past two AC games, but on the Wii, maybe with virtual reality and all that cool stuff. I think that the Wii AC game could come out late 08, but there are no guarentees, plus it's just a random guess. There is that Wii Sims game, that will function similar to AC, but it will be some sort of a AC and Sim mix, but with Mii's.

Nook is the closest thing to a final boss in AC. The whole point is to work your butt off so you can pay Nook, so you can buy a bigger house, which creates an even bigger debt, and so the vicious cycle continues until you've made a house as big as possible.
We all want bigger and badder stuff, and the AC humans and Nook are no exception.

What about ROBB? We know even less about his past. Does that make him a mysterious character as well?
Falco refuses to talk about his past, he never mentions what he does outside of Star Fox, though he could be a bounty hunter. Heck, he could be alligned with some sinister villian for all we know, and ROBB is just as robot built for Star Fox's repairs and to overlook the Great Fox while Fox and the rest of the SF team are in combat.

Falco could be even badder than Andross for all we know with him being silent about his non-Star Fox related. Falco is quikc to avoid the subject, it even says something along these lines on his melee trophy. Slippy, Peppy, Krystal, and Fox aren't afraid what they do outside of Star Fox, which they are a open book about. Falco is a completly opposite case in this matter.

Plus as far as we know with Command's ending, Krystal could be with Star Wolf, having a relationship with Panther, Falco could have quit Star Fox permantely. Wolf could just be semi-evil like he's been, or continue bening uber evil, and Slippy and Peppy well in all alternate endings they stay with Star Fox.

He may have killed Tuscan Radiders, but his bawling afterward made him seem pretty wimpy.
What do you mean, Anakin fought Geonosians in a machine factory and got his lightsaber destroyed, fought in that giant areana against those two beasts, fought in that Jedi vs. Battle Droids epic battle, fought in the star or the clone wars, and was in that awsome battle with Count Dooku.

While Anakin did his share of killing, none of his enemies seemed particularily threatening (even Dooku seemed like a pushover, in my view) but the main probelm is his lack of humor. Whatever happened to the dude who who made dry jokes as he force-chocked his minions? ("Apology accepted, Admiral...")
Dooku a pushover=did you see him fight Yoda, or did you not know he was played by the legendary Christopher Lee=??? He used his anger=Vader skillz to pwn Dooku like a n00b. We all love it when Darth Vader is p*****, because we are guarenteed at least 2 deaths within the next 10 minutes. Now that is excitement, and entertainment.

His lack of humor was taken up by Obi Wan Kenobi. "Another Happy Landing" after fightign through endless droids, getting beat the **** out of by a sith, getting captured, fighting body guards, more droids, and the ultimate cyborg in Greivious, then having to help steer a breaking and burning flag ship to safety, then barely and safely landed. Now that's funny!

Here here!
All I could say is all who oppose us "Don't know the true power of the DARK SIDE!!!"

^^^^ At least Anakin didn't whine like that! And when he did, he killed hundreds of people!

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well put.
But Pichu can be very useful. Plus again, ChuDat has a crazy good Pichu (I saw several vids of ChuDat's IC+Pichu=insane!) Seriously though, one of my frined's secondary characters is Pichu, and he pwns my Link with him (and Link is my 2nd best, and I beat my friends 98% of the time with him). In the extremely unlikely chance that Pichu does return, it shouldn't hurt itself.

Other than that, it is the least clooney clone, unless you include Luigi of course. This is coming from a Falco and Roy user=funny! :laugh: Seriously though, Pichu like any character can be extremely good, but the fact that it hurts itself if the main reason we won't be seeing a world champion who mains Pichu, because ever little tiny bit of damage could mean a win or lose. Seriously, it needs to go, assuming Pichu does return.

I think Sakurai added that "feature" or disadvantage to Pichu to prevent Pichu from being the Pickachu of SSBM. Apparently, he killed any chance of the world's best maining Pichu. But outside of the bet of the best matches (Isai, Ken, Neo), Pichu can still be good and very useful. But we won't see a Pichu craze at MLG anyime soon. ;)

Then again, there is nothing wrong with clones, but they need some originality. Doc clones are just a waste of a space, compaired to original characters, or luigified clones.

Falco is actually my favorite SF character (one of the reasons he was originally on my list...) so I hope we eventually see a Falco spin off.
You confuse me, I never saw that one coming, especially with you cutting him! :laugh: He's my fav too, well tied with Fox of course, then of course Wolf shortly behind, followed by Krystal and *unexpected* Peppy (do a barell *insert here* roll! back flip!!! summersault!!!)

It's like "IT'S OVER NINE-THOUUSSSSSANNNNNNDDDDDD", or "I wonder what Ganon's doing", or even "Spaghetti!" Those last two=stupid CD-i Nintendo games (3 CD-i Zelda games plus Hotel Mario). Ahh well, they are fun to laugh at, but they will forever SUCK! This is not worthy of debate, this is worthy of a execution if you enjoy these games. All 4 are perfect for communists, hopefully the ones who get inspired by this crap to make Tetris! ;)
 

gamerpie

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
10
probably my favorite thread
but i think midna in her imp form is more likely than her twili form. but still, great list
 

Kereokacola

Disco Romance
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
2,681
Location
Denver, CO
I'm quite impresssed with the time and effort you put into this, but I only have one problem.

I'm all for original characters, not alternate egos or different forms of characters. We already have Link, why make another Link? If you guys want Wind Waker Link so bad, I think the option of an alternate costume for the Link we already have is suitable. Many people prefer different versions of Link, it's only suitable to wrap them all into one because Link is Link.

I am for costume changes.
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
Luigifed clones at least, or clones with the same attacks very unlike th character they are based off (ie: Falco and Fox's bdown hit you the diffrent ways, diffrent b attacks, etc.).

...

Then again, there is nothing wrong with clones, but they need some originality. Doc clones are just a waste of a space, compaired to original characters, or luigified clones.
*A "luigified" clone is scarcely a clone at all*...

Seriously, I don't even know why they call it that. Luigi's moves are only similar in any way to Mario because they're brothers, and they've been in (almost) all the same games together. (Please don't correct me, I'm familiar with every Mario game there is.)

Look at their movesets and show me the similarity: They have similar up-B, down-B and n-B moves, granted. All A-moves were virtually entirely different. They may have some sort of similar feel (Luigi does a karate chop with his hand, Mario does a fist punch down with his hand), but they are no where near being the same to be called "clones." Is a "luigified clone" just a clone who had the same B-moves but different A-moves? I got news for you: It would take just as long to make a "luigifed clone" as it would to make a character with an entirely new moveset...

Oh, and on the Doc thing...at least he could KO a guy; Mario had the hardest time in the world doing so. (Doc is awesome!)


On another note, I think any character who was in the original smash (64) should have at least two members of their franchise present in Brawl. (This means Ness, Falcon, and anyone else who isn't dually represented yet should get someone...Get over it, Yoshi is a Mario character, and DK is sketchy...)
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
18,966
Location
Livermore, the Bay repping NorCal Smash!
NNID
Johnknight1
3DS FC
3540-0575-1486
@ the grim lizard
I was refering to Luigi in SSB64, not SSBM. AS the first clone in the series, he wasn' really ever real clone, he was in his own class. Then in Melee he was a pure original, other than his grab throws.
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
needs more little mac
Mac is certainly a contender for a spot in Brawl, so he's most leikely grace my
runnersup list before too long.

Luigifed clones at least, or clones with the same attacks
very unlike th character they are based off (ie: Falco and Fox's bdown hit you the
diffrent ways, diffrent b attacks, etc.).
I don't disagree, I was just trying to point out that even pure clones like Dr. Mario
have their fans. But yeah, Luigi is what all clones should aspire to be.

W00t Waluigi is awsome, but I'm not sure he's fit for Brawl. Maybe he'll be a lot
bigger, maybe half as big as Wario is now, then he'll be in SSB4. Then he'll totally
pwn all!
The wonderful thing about Mii is that it could allow characters like Waluigi to get in
Brawl:




Donkey Kong, not as influential. Seriously, DKC (only the first one) sold 20 million
units, 2/5's of the entire LOZ series, and the DKC series totally revolutionized the 2d
sidescrolling plattform 3 times, but mainly the first two times. Star Fox has generally
help lead the way in the development of ship to ship combat simulators, though Zelda is
more important than that. Still DKC was the #2 selling SNES game, only to SMW, which was
bundled with the system, exactly like Wii Sports and the Wii.
Selling a ton of games is a definite plus, but it doesn't make the series revolutionary
or influential.

How exactly did DKC "revolutionize" side scrollers? The series may have perfected the
formulae and it was visually impressive for its time, but it wasn't the first game in
which you
ran from left to right, jumped on baddies and collected crap.

Sounds intresting, there is a lot of character discussion, but stage discussion isn't
talked about enough. Seriously, the SWF should have a "stage discussion" under Brawl
once Brawl is released, and the Brawl section is redone, sorta like character
discussion. Just thought I'd throw that out there, it seems intresting.

Anyways, I did predict Delfino Plaza, and I thought it would use platforms, where you
could view the city (hell, when bored in Math class I drew pics, then again that class
bored me a lot :grin:) in it's beauty, plus the moving fight is also what I predicted.
However, I think it will use the platform more than I predicted, I thought it would use
a moving screen more.

Still, we know minimal about it, and we only know it uses platforms, you fight in at
least 2 areas of Delfino Plaza, and where are the boats, and more importantly the
statue in the center=??? This is probably the best stage I've seen yet IMO, maybe that
Castle (probably from FE III, V, or VI) looks pretty good too, along with that other FE
course. Also it will be intresting to see how that Kid Icarus stage, Angeland turns out,
it looks like it has great potential. Plus it looks beatiful, and translates the Kid
Icarus Angeland beatifully!
What did you do with those sketches of Delfino Plaza? Maybe Sakurai stole your ideas!

But yeah, the stage is definitely one of favorites so far - though the incredible Fire
Emblem Stage looks too incredible for it NOT be be my favorite.

Plus most players prefer the Pills, but being a bit slower, and weighing a bit more,
well it has it's advantages/disadantages.
Exactly. A perfect example of how a clone can be a great addition, without necessarily
being Luigied. I'm not saying I want every character to have a straight Doc-esque
clone, but one or two of them would be great.


In the posiblity of us having 4 Star Fox reps (or we get Fox, Falco, and Wolf), I think
Fox's gun will stay the same, Wolf will get Falco's gun, or something like it, and
Falco will get somewhere inbetween that rocket launcher in that pick you have and his
old gun. I think that with Falco because Snake already has a rocket or gernade
launcher, plus we have the cracker launcher (no racist statement intended to my own
race! :laugh:), so it could be like a giant laser or something. If Falco does return,
it will be intresting what his gun will be.

I think Fox will be like his Melee self, Wolf will be a combination of Falco's moveset
in Melee and Fox's and SSB64, and Falco will be a odd combination of the three, plus a
personal twist of course. I do love those personal twists, and at the least we call
them luigified!
Those are all fine ideas, and as a Starfox fan I would be happy to see four SF
sharacters, but given the vast number characters worthy of a character slot I think
three is fair.

Shadow of the Collosus, I was thinking of getting that plus the GTA and DMC special
editions (both with 3 AWSOME games for $20), God Of War, and Shadow of the Collosus.
Heck, one of my friends' favorite game is Shadow of the Collosus.

For Tetris, might I recommend therapy of some sort. I need the same thing for my SSB
withdrawl! NO YOU'LL NEVER GET ME OFF IT :chuckle:

Anyways, Tetris is friggen awsome, still the most advanced and addictive puzzle game
series to date. The one time where commies were smart! :laugh:

One time communism is good. Seriously, you have to be pretty depressed from communism,
as well as beat down to come up with this genius idea we know as Tetris!!! For all the
other times, yae capitolism=superior in EVERY WAY! (minus Tetris!) :laugh:
Yeah, you should definitely check out Shaddow of the Collosus. Easily one of the most
beutiful and unforgettable games ever.

The ultimate showdown between Captialism and Communism: Nook vs. a Tetris block!



Looks don't mean anything at all, plus I could say the same for Mario, Luigi, and Wario.
Ike could have his own original style like Marth did, thus he could be the next top
tier. Ike has a bigger sword, probably heavier swinging, and probably a diffrent sword
fighting style. Plus all we know about Marth is his Melee moveset, and I know he is
virtually more important than almost all other characters in the games he starred in
combined.
True, Marth and Ike have plat styles just dissimilar enough that having one as a clone
of the other would be out of place - but having two characters who look so similar
representing a diverse francise like Fire Emblem would be hugely disapppointing.

Marth is not nearly as important as you think as he and Ike are tied in terms of number of
games they have starred in. Plus, the majority of Fire Emblem fans today have neverplayed Marth's games (more FE games are sold outside Japan than within currently).

Sure, Marth's place in the series was an important one - I just think he has been adequetly been payed tribute to after starring in one Smash Bros game. Now its time for Ike to take his rightful spot as the new FE rep.


I played a Rom of FE 1, 2, 3, and 4 at a friend's house, but sadly they were Japanese,
and I can't read it, plus all the ROMs stoped working after few hours, except for 2.
Anyways, I think we'll ge FE on the VC, and would that change your mind=???
Actually, yes it would. But FE games have been on the Japanese VC since Christmas and Nintendo has yet to indicate that they will be brought to North America or anywhere else.

Look at it, Nintendo's biggest franchises ( all Mario, Donkey Kong, LOZ, Metroid, Star
Fox, Kirby, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem ) are ESA protected, and all of them bu Kirby,
Pokemon, and FE have a VC game of their series released, or planned to be released.
Pokemon probably won't get one since it's on handhelds primaraly, and Kirby will get
one soon, if it doesn't already.

So I see the Japan only Fire Emblem games, and even somewat possibly Mother 1 could come
out on the VC, that is if Nintendo wants to leave a mark this gen by using past gen
games we normally wouldn't get or play. That would be smart bussiness, and those game
would be amongst the most purchased.
Kirby's adventure is on VC, but no Metroid yet. I would love to play the Japanese FEgames on VC, but until Marth shows his ugly mug outside Japan I will continue to consider him unworthy of representing his series.

Ness was suppose to be replaced by Lucas. I don't think Ness will get cut, he has a
strong and loyal fanbase (myself included). I'd like to see Lucas, he is suppose to be
like neo-Ness, with some cool moves that Paula had, along with his own moves. But still
Ness isn't going to leave the series, probably ever=us members of the cult following
will keep loving Earthbound.

I don't see Nintendo trying to be retarted and replacing a character, but I do see them
removing clones, and clones only. Maybe a original, but I don't see a character getting
removed, then a character with the same moveset being added. Nintendo can be smarter
than that, and there is no logic behind it.
There's nothing ******** about replacing the minor characters in Melee with new ones. Smah Bros will still be Smash Bros if G&W or Marth are cut - and the characters who get in instead of them may wind up being even more popular. Would you really prefer to see all the non-clone Melee characters stay if it meant one of your favorite potential newcomers didn't make the cut?


Let's say you want to have G&W face Wario. This won't be possible, unless you have major
game hacking skills, or downloadable content returns G&W. Personally I think seeing
characters return to face the new characters is part of wat SSB is all about. C'mon, if
let's say you mained G&W, he got cut, and you wanted to cae your friend's main Wario, it
wouldn't be possible, and you would wonder about that matchup for a long time.
No matter who gets cut, there will be people who are upset. I'm be sad to see Doc go. Others will be mad when Sheik is cut. Even Pichu has his fans. But this change will ultimately be for the better, as each character cut will mean that a new character will make the cut.

Being in the Brawl roster is not a right given to any Nintendo owned character - but a privilage affored to the greatest characters from the greatest series. Aside from the original 12 veteran characters - no one is safe. Only characters who have constributed to a currently relevant and thriving franchise should return, in my view. Smash isn't a retirement home for outdated and irrelivant characters, its an elite group that Nintendo (and now 3rd party) allstars.


Besides, people want to play as their fav Nintendo characters (and a few 3rd party
characters), along with fight with advanced tech with several characters, and lots of
cuts could severly damage the second one. Plus cutting characters like Falco, IC, G&W,
Marth, and Ness could screw Brawl over. If all of those characters were to be removed,
Melee's tourney circuit would stay strong, as big, or even bigger than Brawl.
Seriously man, who cares? If everyone who goes to tournaments bought Brawl and decided that they don'y like ANY of the characters, they can continue playing Melee. The important thing is that Brawl will be a brand new Smash Bros and not just a Melee expansion pack.

Overall Sakurai needs to balance adding new characters that n00bs and diehard SSB
players both like, along with cutting carefully and minimally, otherwise the Melee
tourney circuit Melee section would be that many people more than Brawl could have had.
I think only clones could leave, otherwise what justice does he have than more spots are
open. He shouldn't just be worried about people who play a character at most 5 hours, he
should also be worried about he people who play a character 200 hours!
Clones like Doc and Young Link are just as popular as original characters, so that criteria is useless. Rather than choose who will return based on how popular characters are (which is subject to change as characters are tweaked with each new game) a character's worthiness should be judged on the games in which they have appeared in recent years. If they havn't made an appearance in a game since Melee, then they shouldn't return. And even if they have (in the case of Falco) they still might be replaced if other characters in their series have overshadowed them in recent games.


FF IV is awsome, it surprisingly has a great story, very similar to the lines of Link's
Awakening. Random, both the 4th of their series. I've yet to play the DS versions of
them, but the GBA ones (in which FF I-VI are out) that I have played (I, II, I+II, and
IV) are very similar to the originals, but with added stuff. I heard the GBA FF VI had
lots of summon name changes, plus they added a few summons.
THanks for the recomendation. I'll ahve to check those games out when I have a chance.


FF II can either be FF II or FF IV (FF II or III were Japan only games=evil JAPAN!
:mad:), but I've played both, and they are both awsome games. I can just about
guarentee you that a lot of fans will have any of the 13 or their remakes as their fav
or the series, or fav game of all time.

They are all awsome and amazing games, probably one of the few series that can rival
Zelda in exellence and innovation. Seriously, both series have constantly pushed the
limits of their genre (for Zelda action-RPG's, and action adventure genre, and FF the
RPG and action-RPG genre). Without either of them, video gaming wouldn't be half as
good=not exaggerating. And that is just Twilight Princess! :laugh:
Don't shoot the messanger, but a reviewer on 1up.com, Shane Betanhousan, has been blasting the Japanese FFII as the worst game in the series lately on the 1up Yours Podcast. I've never played the game though, so it might still be great.

But it wasn't that big of a hit, and had minimal, if any success at all. Yoshi's Story
sold quite well, but nothing compaired to the Mario games. Plus Topsy Turvey hasn't
come anywhere near even Yoshi's Story. Wario however, has starred in games that sold
extremely well.
A game doesn't have to be good to count as a game. Face it, Yoshi is now the star of his own mini franchise.


Hmm...online and new sick Pokemon are all I can think of. Pokemon has built upon
perfection several times, adding new layers. I could say TP did the same thing, bulit
upon perfection that OOT, MM, and WW+it's own personal twist (virtual reality, a new
world, a few new weapons). Pokemon D/P add new Pokemon, a new world, online play and
trade, and a whole lot of other stuff.
Yeah, but TP introduced Wii controls, which made the whole experiance feel fresh.

Regardless, when you look at games like LoZ, ALttP and OoT its clear that the Zelda series has been far more ground breaking than Pokemon - which has just improved on the same formulae from game to game.

There is a officially announced AC Wii , but all we know is it will be on the Wii, and
will work similar to the past two AC games, but on the Wii, maybe with virtual reality
and all that cool stuff. I think that the Wii AC game could come out late 08, but there
are no guarentees, plus it's just a random guess. There is that Wii Sims game, that will
function similar to AC, but it will be some sort of a AC and Sim mix, but with
Mii's.
Miis haven't been officually confirmed for the game, so they aren't a proper rep for the series yet. Animal Crossing on GC and DS are two of the finest Nintendo games in recent memory and they deserve representation in Brawl. Miis didn't appear in either game, but Nook has.

We all want bigger and badder stuff, and the AC humans and Nook are no
exception.
Yeah, that's why Jiggs and Pichu were put in Melee. Thet're about as Big and Bad as you can get. Same goes for Ness, Kirby, Yoshi, Peach...


Falco refuses to talk about his past, he never mentions what he does outside of Star
Fox, though he could be a bounty hunter. Heck, he could be alligned with some sinister
villian for all we know, and ROBB is just as robot built for Star Fox's repairs and to
overlook the Great Fox while Fox and the rest of the SF team are in combat.

Falco could be even badder than Andross for all we know with him being silent about his
non-Star Fox related. Falco is quikc to avoid the subject, it even says something along
these lines on his melee trophy. Slippy, Peppy, Krystal, and Fox aren't afraid what they
do outside of Star Fox, which they are a open book about. Falco is a completly opposite
case in this matter.

Plus as far as we know with Command's ending, Krystal could be with Star Wolf, having a
relationship with Panther, Falco could have quit Star Fox permantely. Wolf could just
be semi-evil like he's been, or continue bening uber evil, and Slippy and Peppy well in
all alternate endings they stay with Star Fox.
Lack of information about his past may make Falco mysterious, but there is no denying that his importance in the stories of Adventures and Assault was less than Krystal and Wolf, respectively. Again, I havn't played Command yet (no more spoilers, please) but my undersatnding is that Falco's role in the game is about equal to Krystal, Wolf, Peppy, Slippy. etc. not more.


What do you mean, Anakin fought Geonosians in a machine factory and got his lightsaber
destroyed, fought in that giant areana against those two beasts, fought in that Jedi
vs. Battle Droids epic battle, fought in the star or the clone wars, and was in that
awsome battle with Count Dooku.
Oooooooo. Battle Droids and Geonosians. How impressive. The Dark Vader from the original series wouldn't have broken a sweat on those pitiful enemies.


Dooku a pushover=did you see him fight Yoda, or did you not know he was played by the
legendary Christopher Lee=??? He used his anger=Vader skillz to pwn Dooku like a n00b.
We all love it when Darth Vader is p*****, because we are guarenteed at least 2 deaths
within the next 10 minutes. Now that is excitement, and entertainment.

His lack of humor was taken up by Obi Wan Kenobi. "Another Happy Landing" after fightign
through endless droids, getting beat the **** out of by a sith, getting captured,
fighting body guards, more droids, and the ultimate cyborg in Greivious, then having to
help steer a breaking and burning flag ship to safety, then barely and safely landed.
Now that's funny!
Dooku was set up as this important villian in part two, only to be killed off faster than you can say "plot hole".

I guess my probelm with the prequels is that the writing didn't live up to the emense potential. The original Trilogy was so great because it is all one story. Episode I,II and III don't fit together quite so neatly - and ultimately III hold up better on its own without the other two prequels unnecessarily dragging out the plot.

If you want to see a truly great contemporary Sci-Fi Saga, you should check out the new Battlesat Galactica series. It makes the Star Wars movies look like Sesame Street.




But Pichu can be very useful. Plus again, ChuDat has a crazy good Pichu (I saw several
vids of ChuDat's IC+Pichu=insane!) Seriously though, one of my frined's secondary
characters is Pichu, and he pwns my Link with him (and Link is my 2nd best, and I beat
my friends 98% of the time with him). In the extremely unlikely chance that Pichu does
return, it shouldn't hurt itself.

Other than that, it is the least clooney clone, unless you include Luigi of course. This
is coming from a Falco and Roy user=funny! :laugh: Seriously though, Pichu like any
character can be extremely good, but the fact that it hurts itself if the main reason
we won't be seeing a world champion who mains Pichu, because ever little tiny bit of
damage could mean a win or lose. Seriously, it needs to go, assuming Pichu does return.


I think Sakurai added that "feature" or disadvantage to Pichu to prevent Pichu from
being the Pickachu of SSBM. Apparently, he killed any chance of the world's best
maining Pichu. But outside of the bet of the best matches (Isai, Ken, Neo), Pichu can
still be good and very useful. But we won't see a Pichu craze at MLG anyime soon. ;)

Then again, there is nothing wrong with clones, but they need some originality. Doc
clones are just a waste of a space, compaired to original characters, or luigified
clones.
Pichu was intended as a handycap character - it says so on his trophy. He was made poorly on purpose so that truly great players could humiliate their oponents by beating them with Pichu. If ChuDat can own with Pichu, it proves that he is a great player - not that Pichu is a good character.


Since Doc clones take very little time to program and are quite popular, I don't see them as a waiste of space at all.


You confuse me, I never saw that one coming, especially with you cutting him! :laugh:
He's my fav too, well tied with Fox of course, then of course Wolf shortly behind,
followed by Krystal and *unexpected* Peppy (do a barell *insert here* roll! back
flip!!! summersault!!!)

It's like "IT'S OVER NINE-THOUUSSSSSANNNNNNDDDDDD", or "I wonder what Ganon's doing", or
even "Spaghetti!" Those last two=stupid CD-i Nintendo games (3 CD-i Zelda games plus
Hotel Mario). Ahh well, they are fun to laugh at, but they will forever SUCK! This is
not worthy of debate, this is worthy of a execution if you enjoy these games. All 4 are
perfect for communists, hopefully the ones who get inspired by this crap to make Tetris!
;)
Yeah, I would really like Falco to return - but with a likely max of 3 SF reps, I just don't see him as that likly. It really wouldn't be fair of me to replace characters I don't like (Mewtwo and Marth) and not be willing to sacrifice characters I like as well.

Yeah, the CD-i games make for great comedy, but I wouldn't wish them on anyone - even communists. That would be just cruel.:laugh:

Awesome list Wiseguy :)

But six 3rd party characters? :/
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it.

Six 3rd party characters is optimistic, but I tried to predict what characters akurai would inlcude if he could - based on his poll and which ones are popular worldwide. Its perfectly possible that no more 3rd parties will be included - bu that would make for a pretty boring list.

probably my favorite thread
but i think midna in her imp form is more likely than her twili form. but still, great
list
Wow, high praise! I appreciate the compliment.

Your not alone in your opinion on Imp Midna, and if they do design a unique moveset for her then you are correct. But if, as I suspect, there will be plenty of clones added to make a larger roster - we may see Twili Midna as a Zelda clone. Still, Midna is such a great character that either of her forms would be fine with me.

I'm quite impresssed with the time and effort you put into
this, but I only have one problem.

I'm all for original characters, not alternate egos or different forms of characters. We
already have Link, why make another Link? If you guys want Wind Waker Link so bad, I
think the option of an alternate costume for the Link we already have is suitable. Many
people prefer different versions of Link, it's only suitable to wrap them all into one
because Link is Link.

I am for costume changes.
Thanks for taking the time to post on my thread. Differing points of view are what keep the discussion interesting.

WW Link and TP Link aren't alternate forms of the same character (like Old and Young Link were in Melee) rather, they are completely unique individuals from separate times who happen to share a love for swords and green tunics. Making one an alternate costume for the other would be like making Luigi an alternate costume of Mario's.

*A "luigified" clone is scarcely a clone at all*...

Seriously, I don't even know why they call it that. Luigi's moves are only similar in any way to Mario because they're brothers, and they've been in (almost) all the same games together. (Please don't correct me, I'm familiar with every Mario game there is.)

Look at their movesets and show me the similarity: They have similar up-B, down-B and n-B moves, granted. All A-moves were virtually entirely different. They may have some sort of similar feel (Luigi does a karate chop with his hand, Mario does a fist punch down with his hand), but they are no where near being the same to be called "clones." Is a "luigified clone" just a clone who had the same B-moves but different A-moves? I got news for you: It would take just as long to make a "luigifed clone" as it would to make a character with an entirely new moveset...

Oh, and on the Doc thing...at least he could KO a guy; Mario had the hardest time in the world doing so. (Doc is awesome!)
The way I see it, Luigi's moveset was originally based on Mario's (you can see the similarities in most of their A and B moves) but most of his attacks were tweaked and modified, his stats are radically different and he has a unique B>. So, since the brothers share similar abilites, the Smash team elected to save time by cloning Mario's moveset as a time saver. By "Luigified Clone" I mean a clone that is unique enough that plays alomst like a whole new character.

On another note, I think any character who was in the original smash (64) should have at least two members of their franchise present in Brawl. (This means Ness, Falcon, and anyone else who isn't dually represented yet should get someone...Get over it, Yoshi is a Mario character, and DK is sketchy...)
I agree with Ness and Falcon getting another character each - but DK and Yoshi have their own franchises. They have both starred in games without Mario and they have unique icons (Yoshi has an egg instead of a mushroom) and maps in Smash Bros. That's how I see it, anyway.

But yeah, Doc rules!
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
good thread, i especially liked the captions for each characters, i laughed hard. good work!
Thanks, I'm glad you like them.

Hey Wise, was it you that wanted to see a reasonable Midna/Wolf Link moveset...

Or am I thinking of someone else?
I think your thinking of when I asked for an Andy moveset. But I'd like to see a resonable Midna/Wolf moveset if you know of one.
 

bijoukaiba

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
306
Location
Gainesville, FL
Heheh, good captions! My favorite was Ganondorf's comment about being a clone.

But your list continued to influence the fear I keep trying to forget- the chance that Marth might be removed. WHY?! TT_TT I don't care about Roy, I just want Marthie back... :(

...However, placing Samurai Goroh and Captain Olimar on your roster makes me feel better. :) You might, however, want to cut a few of your third parties. You had about... 6? (including Snake). I'd guess Sakurai would keep 2-3... and maybe 4 if he feels generous towards the 3rd-P characters.
 

Ferro De Lupe

Smash Lord
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
1,047
Location
Shawnee, OK
Know one? I built one...

Warning: Spoilers for Twilight Princess. Don't read if you don't want them. This is your only warning.

Midna
(It is a Wolf Link/Midna team, but they will be referred to as Midna by the announcer.)

Stats:

Attack: ***
Average

Attack Speed: ****
Wolves (like foxes) are naturally agile and quick.

Reach: *****
Because of Midna’s hair-extensions (no joke intended), she will have good reach.

Jump: ***
Both of Wolf Link’s jumps combined would equal one of Fox’s second jump (because wolves are not built to jump.) However, Midna brings this up with her teleport abilities. All-in-all, it would be average.

Gravity: ***
Average

Height: ** (and a half.)
Wolf Link is about as tall as Ness, but add in Midna and he’s taller.

Weight: **
Because Midna is so small and light, Wolf Link has all of the weight here.

Wall-Jump: No

Playing Style: You would control Wolf Link for about half of the “A” attacks, all the movement (walking, running, etc.), the first two jumps, and very few air and “B” attacks. Midna would handle some “A” attacks, all/most of the “B” attacks, all/most of the aerial attacks, control the “third jump”, and control the “Super“ attack. Midna uses all handheld and equip items, while Wolf Link uses all throwing items.

Fighter Stance: Wolf Link would stand on all fours (duh) in a “ready to fight”-like pose. While Midna would hold onto Wolf Link with both hands and lower her head. Stand still for a little bit and Midna will look around.

Movement Speed: One notch lower than Fox.

Taunt: Wolf Link sits and looks back at Midna while she yawns in classic Twilight Princess style.

Victory Music: The music from Twilight Princess anytime you defeated a boss/learned a hidden skill.

Victory Poses:
1) Wolf Link jumps around in circles trying to get Midna off of his back (like when she first mounted him.) The picture freezes with Wolf Link’s front paws on the ground, back paws in the air, and Midna hanging on for dear life.
2) Wolf Link howls and then spins (like in TP.)
3) A Moblin is seen on the screen. Suddenly, Wolf Link comes from the side and (easily) vanquishes the Moblin. As the Moblin “poofs”, Wolf Link and Midna turn to face you.
(Open to suggestions)

Icon (face): Triforce (Midna)

Levels:

Stage: Kakariko Village - Unlocked once Midna becomes playable. This level is very similar to Onett. There is no falling on this level. KO is only possible on the left, right, and up. Start with the shrine on one side, put Barnes’ Bomb shop on the other, and add every building against the western cliff side between the two.
You fight on the roofs of the buildings with two gaps. The first gap in between the shrine and the first house, while the second gap is between Barnes’ shop and the last house. These gaps will let you fight on the ground between them. You can also fight on the other side of Barnes’ shop and the shire, but it’s dangerously close to the level edge.
Level Hazard: Every now and then, a Goron will roll by and harm anyone caught in the path (down in the gaps.)

Adventure Mode Level: Twilight Palace - You start at the bottom of the palace and have to fight several Twilight-themed monsters while making it to the top. You can not advance to the next floor of the level until all the monsters in the area are defeated. After about 5-6 floors, you arrive at the top for a 300 stamina battle against Zant. Note: Zant does NOT become playable if defeated. Also, Zant’s life decreases to 150 on Easy, 75 on Very Easy, and increases to 450 on Hard, 600 on Very Hard.

How to Unlock: Defeat Zant in Very Hard difficulty Adventure mode with Link.

Items:
Gale Boomerang - Throwing item. Once thrown, the boomerang releases a small tornado around it. If the boomerang hits anyone, they are engulfed in the tornado, spun around, and thrown into the air [think Hyrule Castle from SSB] (the boomerang then returns to the thrower.) If it doesn’t hit anyone, the boomerang returns. The boomerang can be thrown three times. Can also be used to grab items from a distance and put them at your feet. Unlike Link’s boomerang, it will not return if you don’t catch it.

Oocca - Throwing item. Basically, they are the new Mr. Saturn item.

Shadow Stone - Equip item. Gives the user wolf-like characteristics (tails, ears, fur, etc.) and temporarily increases attack speed (gives them wolf-like agility.) Works in the same way that the Bunnyhood, Super Mushroom, and Metal Box do.
(In retrospect, this item would be tricky to see on Wolf, Krystal, or Fox.)

Alternate Colors:

Inverted - Midna’s white areas become black, and her grey areas become white. Her hair also becomes blue. Wolf Link also becomes white.
Tupic Green - Wolf Link become the same green as his tunic. Midna stays normal.
(Open to suggestions) (Needing someone willing to make images)

Kirby Hat: Kirby equips Midna’s hat and hair, while the remaining exposed area becomes covered in fur. This symbolizes the Midna/Wolf Link team.

Moveset:
Because of Midna’s great reach, all of her hair-hand attacks have extended hit-boxes (like a sword.)

NOTE: * = Taken/Modified from Twilight Princess.

A: Chomps forward once.* No knock back. 2%

A twice: Second chomp.* No knock back. 3%

A three: Quickly turns and tail swipes.* Low knock back. 5%

Dash A: Midna’s places her hair-hand in front of Wolf Link and makes a fist; acting as a battering ram. Decent knock back. 6-7%

Forward Tilt: Wolf Link swipes with his claws. Low knock back. 5-8%

Up Tilt: Wolf Link swipes upward with his claws. No knock back. 6-7%

Down Tilt: Wolf Link tilts his head to a diagonal angle and aims for the ankles (or hands if they’re hanging from the edge) with his teeth/fangs. Low knock back, good for edge-guarding. 6-7%

Forward Smash: Wolf Link leans back and puts all of his weight and strength into his back legs. When released, Wolf Link pounces forward ready to bite anything in his path. Decent knock back. 10-14%

Down Smash: Wolf Link quickly spins around with claws, teeth, and fangs attacking anything in the way.* Decent knock back. 10-12%

Up Smash: Midna moves her hand in an arc above her. As her hand makes the arc, a trail of Twili magic is left behind in the form of an offensive barrier. The barrier does not protect against projectiles, but will harm anyone it comes into contact with. It fades about a second after it’s made. No knock back, stuns opponent and opens for attacking. 10-12%

Aerial A: Wolf Link spins around using his tail as a weapon. Minor knock back. 3-5%

Aerial Forward A: Wolf Link rolls forward while Midna’s hair-hand slaps in a downward arc-path (think DK‘s F-air with Midna‘s hair-hand acting as his fist and Wolf Link acting as his body.) This is a spike. Great (downward) knock back. 10%

Aerial Back A: Midna’s hair-hand swings around and hits behind her. Decent knock back. 6-9%

Aerial Down A: Wolf Link rolls forward slightly and chomps underneath of himself. No knock back. 5-7%

Aerial Up A: Midna swipes both her hands across each other above her head and shoots a small sphere straight up. Little knock back.* 5-7%

Forward Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, rears back, and then smashes the target into the ground in front of Wolf Link. Low knock back. 7-10%

Back Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, smashes them against the ground behind her, then smashes them against the ground in front of Wolf Link, and then finally throws them behind her. Decent (backwards) knock back. 4%, then 4%, then 2%

Up Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, and throws them backwards… catapult style. Good knock back. 2%

Down Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand and smashes them against the ground. Then Wolf Link attacks using his “finish the poe” maneuver.* No knock back. 13%

B: Dark Energy - A 360 degree sphere of Midna‘s magic surrounds Wolf Link. It is a chargeable attack, but cannot be saved. You will also have restricted movement while charging. While it is charging, any enemies that enter the sphere become highlighted to show that they are targeted. Once “B“ is released (or the attack has been held too long) Wolf Link will perform a near-impossible to dodge chain of quick attacks. The only real way to avoid being hit is to get out of Wolf Link‘s jump range. All highlighted targets will be auto-targeted and attacked (unless they avoid it) with increasing damage per target (I.e. target one takes the least damage while target three takes the most.) If there are no targets highlighted, then Wolf Link does his “Down Smash” with increased lag. In the air (and if used correctly,) this attack can become a nice recovery, but it’s very risky because Wolf Link is stunned until he hit’s the ground if no targets are highlighted. Great knock back regardless of damage, best used in close-quarter combat.* 5%, then 10%, then 15%

Up B: Twili Teleport - This is the only move that keeps Wolf Link’s jumping stat from getting a one star. It works identical to Zelda’s, with some slight modifications. Midna turns herself and Wolf Link into the “twilight squares” and teleports in the direction selected. The big difference between the two is the damage. Zelda‘s causes damage while she is casting the spell. Midna‘s would cause damage after the spell is cast and she is moving. Minor damage is given for each “square” that the target is hit with. No knock back.* 1% per square

Down B: Hair Fist - Midna turns her hair into a giant fist. Then both she and Wolf Link rear back to get some extra momentum. They both then come forward and she pounds the ground in front of her. Getting hit with the fist before it hit’s the ground causes some decent knock back and damage. Getting hit with the fist into the ground causes you to take the full damage, but has no knock back (because you’re being flattened into the ground.) The pounding also creates a small shockwave. The closer you are to the center of the shockwave (without being under the fist) the more damage and knock back you take. Of all of their attacks, this one has the worst lag. Very dangerous attack at upper percentages (60+.) Should only be used when you can guarantee a hit. 20%

Forward B: Hair Spear - Remember how Midna…dispatched of Zant? Pretty much all I need to do to sum it up. She launches a spear made out of her hair at the target causing a nice bit of damage. Good knock back.* 10-15%

Super Smash: Fused Shadow Creature - Midna equips the Fused Shadows and uses the giant spear to “impale” one target for massive damage.* 75%
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
Heheh, good captions! My favorite was Ganondorf's comment about being a clone.

But your list continued to influence the fear I keep trying to forget- the chance that Marth might be removed. WHY?! TT_TT I don't care about Roy, I just want Marthie back... :(

...However, placing Samurai Goroh and Captain Olimar on your roster makes me feel better. :) You might, however, want to cut a few of your third parties. You had about... 6? (including Snake). I'd guess Sakurai would keep 2-3... and maybe 4 if he feels generous towards the 3rd-P characters.
I understand your attachment to Marth, but I strongly suspect that if he is replaced with Ike his moveset with will control similarly to Marth so fans like you won't be alienated. Besides, Ike is basicaly identical to Marth - except that he has a bigger sword and doesn't wear a tiarra.

Yeah, people have been giving me grief lately for havind so mant 3rd parties, so I may follow you advice and cut some of them...

I'm glad you enjoyed my thread. Thanks for the kind words.

Know one? I built one...

Warning: Spoilers for Twilight Princess. Don't read if you don't want them. This is your only warning.

Midna
(It is a Wolf Link/Midna team, but they will be referred to as Midna by the announcer.)

Stats:

Attack: ***
Average

Attack Speed: ****
Wolves (like foxes) are naturally agile and quick.

Reach: *****
Because of Midna’s hair-extensions (no joke intended), she will have good reach.

Jump: ***
Both of Wolf Link’s jumps combined would equal one of Fox’s second jump (because wolves are not built to jump.) However, Midna brings this up with her teleport abilities. All-in-all, it would be average.

Gravity: ***
Average

Height: ** (and a half.)
Wolf Link is about as tall as Ness, but add in Midna and he’s taller.

Weight: **
Because Midna is so small and light, Wolf Link has all of the weight here.

Wall-Jump: No

Playing Style: You would control Wolf Link for about half of the “A” attacks, all the movement (walking, running, etc.), the first two jumps, and very few air and “B” attacks. Midna would handle some “A” attacks, all/most of the “B” attacks, all/most of the aerial attacks, control the “third jump”, and control the “Super“ attack. Midna uses all handheld and equip items, while Wolf Link uses all throwing items.

Fighter Stance: Wolf Link would stand on all fours (duh) in a “ready to fight”-like pose. While Midna would hold onto Wolf Link with both hands and lower her head. Stand still for a little bit and Midna will look around.

Movement Speed: One notch lower than Fox.

Taunt: Wolf Link sits and looks back at Midna while she yawns in classic Twilight Princess style.

Victory Music: The music from Twilight Princess anytime you defeated a boss/learned a hidden skill.

Victory Poses:
1) Wolf Link jumps around in circles trying to get Midna off of his back (like when she first mounted him.) The picture freezes with Wolf Link’s front paws on the ground, back paws in the air, and Midna hanging on for dear life.
2) Wolf Link howls and then spins (like in TP.)
3) A Moblin is seen on the screen. Suddenly, Wolf Link comes from the side and (easily) vanquishes the Moblin. As the Moblin “poofs”, Wolf Link and Midna turn to face you.
(Open to suggestions)

Icon (face): Triforce (Midna)

Levels:

Stage: Kakariko Village - Unlocked once Midna becomes playable. This level is very similar to Onett. There is no falling on this level. KO is only possible on the left, right, and up. Start with the shrine on one side, put Barnes’ Bomb shop on the other, and add every building against the western cliff side between the two.
You fight on the roofs of the buildings with two gaps. The first gap in between the shrine and the first house, while the second gap is between Barnes’ shop and the last house. These gaps will let you fight on the ground between them. You can also fight on the other side of Barnes’ shop and the shire, but it’s dangerously close to the level edge.
Level Hazard: Every now and then, a Goron will roll by and harm anyone caught in the path (down in the gaps.)

Adventure Mode Level: Twilight Palace - You start at the bottom of the palace and have to fight several Twilight-themed monsters while making it to the top. You can not advance to the next floor of the level until all the monsters in the area are defeated. After about 5-6 floors, you arrive at the top for a 300 stamina battle against Zant. Note: Zant does NOT become playable if defeated. Also, Zant’s life decreases to 150 on Easy, 75 on Very Easy, and increases to 450 on Hard, 600 on Very Hard.

How to Unlock: Defeat Zant in Very Hard difficulty Adventure mode with Link.

Items:
Gale Boomerang - Throwing item. Once thrown, the boomerang releases a small tornado around it. If the boomerang hits anyone, they are engulfed in the tornado, spun around, and thrown into the air [think Hyrule Castle from SSB] (the boomerang then returns to the thrower.) If it doesn’t hit anyone, the boomerang returns. The boomerang can be thrown three times. Can also be used to grab items from a distance and put them at your feet. Unlike Link’s boomerang, it will not return if you don’t catch it.

Oocca - Throwing item. Basically, they are the new Mr. Saturn item.

Shadow Stone - Equip item. Gives the user wolf-like characteristics (tails, ears, fur, etc.) and temporarily increases attack speed (gives them wolf-like agility.) Works in the same way that the Bunnyhood, Super Mushroom, and Metal Box do.
(In retrospect, this item would be tricky to see on Wolf, Krystal, or Fox.)

Alternate Colors:

Inverted - Midna’s white areas become black, and her grey areas become white. Her hair also becomes blue. Wolf Link also becomes white.
Tupic Green - Wolf Link become the same green as his tunic. Midna stays normal.
(Open to suggestions) (Needing someone willing to make images)

Kirby Hat: Kirby equips Midna’s hat and hair, while the remaining exposed area becomes covered in fur. This symbolizes the Midna/Wolf Link team.

Moveset:
Because of Midna’s great reach, all of her hair-hand attacks have extended hit-boxes (like a sword.)

NOTE: * = Taken/Modified from Twilight Princess.

A: Chomps forward once.* No knock back. 2%

A twice: Second chomp.* No knock back. 3%

A three: Quickly turns and tail swipes.* Low knock back. 5%

Dash A: Midna’s places her hair-hand in front of Wolf Link and makes a fist; acting as a battering ram. Decent knock back. 6-7%

Forward Tilt: Wolf Link swipes with his claws. Low knock back. 5-8%

Up Tilt: Wolf Link swipes upward with his claws. No knock back. 6-7%

Down Tilt: Wolf Link tilts his head to a diagonal angle and aims for the ankles (or hands if they’re hanging from the edge) with his teeth/fangs. Low knock back, good for edge-guarding. 6-7%

Forward Smash: Wolf Link leans back and puts all of his weight and strength into his back legs. When released, Wolf Link pounces forward ready to bite anything in his path. Decent knock back. 10-14%

Down Smash: Wolf Link quickly spins around with claws, teeth, and fangs attacking anything in the way.* Decent knock back. 10-12%

Up Smash: Midna moves her hand in an arc above her. As her hand makes the arc, a trail of Twili magic is left behind in the form of an offensive barrier. The barrier does not protect against projectiles, but will harm anyone it comes into contact with. It fades about a second after it’s made. No knock back, stuns opponent and opens for attacking. 10-12%

Aerial A: Wolf Link spins around using his tail as a weapon. Minor knock back. 3-5%

Aerial Forward A: Wolf Link rolls forward while Midna’s hair-hand slaps in a downward arc-path (think DK‘s F-air with Midna‘s hair-hand acting as his fist and Wolf Link acting as his body.) This is a spike. Great (downward) knock back. 10%

Aerial Back A: Midna’s hair-hand swings around and hits behind her. Decent knock back. 6-9%

Aerial Down A: Wolf Link rolls forward slightly and chomps underneath of himself. No knock back. 5-7%

Aerial Up A: Midna swipes both her hands across each other above her head and shoots a small sphere straight up. Little knock back.* 5-7%

Forward Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, rears back, and then smashes the target into the ground in front of Wolf Link. Low knock back. 7-10%

Back Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, smashes them against the ground behind her, then smashes them against the ground in front of Wolf Link, and then finally throws them behind her. Decent (backwards) knock back. 4%, then 4%, then 2%

Up Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, and throws them backwards… catapult style. Good knock back. 2%

Down Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand and smashes them against the ground. Then Wolf Link attacks using his “finish the poe” maneuver.* No knock back. 13%

B: Dark Energy - A 360 degree sphere of Midna‘s magic surrounds Wolf Link. It is a chargeable attack, but cannot be saved. You will also have restricted movement while charging. While it is charging, any enemies that enter the sphere become highlighted to show that they are targeted. Once “B“ is released (or the attack has been held too long) Wolf Link will perform a near-impossible to dodge chain of quick attacks. The only real way to avoid being hit is to get out of Wolf Link‘s jump range. All highlighted targets will be auto-targeted and attacked (unless they avoid it) with increasing damage per target (I.e. target one takes the least damage while target three takes the most.) If there are no targets highlighted, then Wolf Link does his “Down Smash” with increased lag. In the air (and if used correctly,) this attack can become a nice recovery, but it’s very risky because Wolf Link is stunned until he hit’s the ground if no targets are highlighted. Great knock back regardless of damage, best used in close-quarter combat.* 5%, then 10%, then 15%

Up B: Twili Teleport - This is the only move that keeps Wolf Link’s jumping stat from getting a one star. It works identical to Zelda’s, with some slight modifications. Midna turns herself and Wolf Link into the “twilight squares” and teleports in the direction selected. The big difference between the two is the damage. Zelda‘s causes damage while she is casting the spell. Midna‘s would cause damage after the spell is cast and she is moving. Minor damage is given for each “square” that the target is hit with. No knock back.* 1% per square

Down B: Hair Fist - Midna turns her hair into a giant fist. Then both she and Wolf Link rear back to get some extra momentum. They both then come forward and she pounds the ground in front of her. Getting hit with the fist before it hit’s the ground causes some decent knock back and damage. Getting hit with the fist into the ground causes you to take the full damage, but has no knock back (because you’re being flattened into the ground.) The pounding also creates a small shockwave. The closer you are to the center of the shockwave (without being under the fist) the more damage and knock back you take. Of all of their attacks, this one has the worst lag. Very dangerous attack at upper percentages (60+.) Should only be used when you can guarantee a hit. 20%

Forward B: Hair Spear - Remember how Midna…dispatched of Zant? Pretty much all I need to do to sum it up. She launches a spear made out of her hair at the target causing a nice bit of damage. Good knock back.* 10-15%

Super Smash: Fused Shadow Creature - Midna equips the Fused Shadows and uses the giant spear to “impale” one target for massive damage.* 75%
I have to admit, Ferro De Lupe, I've been against Midna/Wolf since the beggining. But after reading your moveset, I realize what an awesome character they would be! Wolf Link is easily my favorite part of Twilight Princess and Midna is practically guaranteed to make it into Brawl in some form - so why not have the best of both worlds?

In terms of attention to detail, this moveset rival's Vali's incredible Olimar moveset posted a few pages back. All your ideas seem perfected reasonable and well suited for Smash Bros - even your adventure mode stage sounds great. I've got to find someway of sneaking this character on my list....

My suggesion for a fourth victory pose: Wolf Link scratches the ground, wimpers and looks up and ***** his head to one side the way dogs sometimes do. Just a thought. :)
 

Kereokacola

Disco Romance
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
2,681
Location
Denver, CO
Thanks for taking the time to post on my thread. Differing points of view are what keep the discussion interesting.

WW Link and TP Link aren't alternate forms of the same character (like Old and Young Link were in Melee) rather, they are completely unique individuals from separate times who happen to share a love for swords and green tunics. Making one an alternate costume for the other would be like making Luigi an alternate costume of Mario's.
Yes, I understand that, but why take up more character space when Link can easily just have alternate costumes? We all know they are different Link's, but I still think they should be categorized together (say if you want to change into the Wind Waker Link costume, it should say Wind Waker Link, or something along those lines to separate them.)
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
18,966
Location
Livermore, the Bay repping NorCal Smash!
NNID
Johnknight1
3DS FC
3540-0575-1486
Mac is certainly a contender for a spot in Brawl, so he's most leikely grace my runnersup list before too long.
I don't see him happening, but he'd be a neat addition to the runner-up list! ;)

I don't disagree, I was just trying to point out that even pure clones like Dr. Mario have their fans. But yeah, Luigi is what all clones should aspire to be.
Yes, but I don't expect all clones to reach Luigi's level of originality in Melee (maybe a bit below his SSB64 self is where I put him at). Also, I think there well could be one Docs in Brawl, maybe even two. I'm also pretty sure at most we'll see 6 clones, Luigified, Docs, and everything inbetween. But I'm guessing we'll see anywhere from 2-5 primaraly, however.

The wonderful thing about Mii is that it could allow characters like Waluigi to get in Brawl:

Stop tempting me=I love Waluigi. I think Mii's are very likely, but I generall give them a bit less than 50/50 chance. I could be wrong, but I assume that is accurate.

Selling a ton of games is a definite plus, but it doesn't make the series revolutionary or influential.

How exactly did DKC "revolutionize" side scrollers? The series may have perfected the
formulae and it was visually impressive for its time, but it wasn't the first game in
which you ran from left to right, jumped on baddies and collected crap.
It pushed the limits of sidescrolling gmaes, by having unique and challenging enemies (towards the end at least), having a amazing rope swinging feature, the ability to switch characters, and use their special abilities, strategies behind using items, plus it had a perfect balance of bonus content and collectables. Not to mention each character had their own special powers, abilities, and strengths and weaknesses that you would have to exploit/cover-up. Well, at least the first two DKC games did that (the 3rd did, but to a much lesser extent). :chuckle:

What did you do with those sketches of Delfino Plaza? Maybe Sakurai stole your ideas!
Funny thing, I drew Link, King Dedede, Diddy Kong (at the time he was my fav video game charcter, PERIOD!), Kirby, Mario, and Fox fighting throughout them. Maybe Sakurai is trying to tell me something, like King Dedede and Diddy Kong will be in Brawl, even if they are basically guarenteed newcomers! :chuckle: Maybe it means we'll get up to 6 or 8 players online=??? Okay, that one I could be a little hopeful with, but it would be intresting to try out.

But yeah, the stage is definitely one of favorites so far - though the incredible Fire Emblem Stage looks too incredible for it NOT be be my favorite.
That is the stage I definitely want to see more of, or at least more than any other stage. I'm not sure which I like more, the FE castle, or Delfnio Plaza (the level I made! :chuckle: ;) :laugh:). The FE castle looks awsome, and so does that other FE stage (the one with the statues holding up those platforms).

Exactly. A perfect example of how a clone can be a great addition, without necessarily being Luigied. I'm not saying I want every character to have a straight Doc-esque clone, but one or two of them would be great.
The stat changes for clones is something really neat to ad to them, plus look at Fox and Falco, and msot of their attacks effect you in very diffrent ways. Stuff like varying stats and effects, knockback, and damage by attacks definitely give clones, well a taste of originality.

Those are all fine ideas, and as a Starfox fan I would be happy to see four SF sharacters, but given the vast number characters worthy of a character slot I think three is fair.
I could go either way. However, I think the wisest idea Sakurai could follow to include a SF character last minute would be to leave Fox generally the same, add Krystal with a original moveset, give Falco his old moveset, but sorta decloned (semi-Luigified), and add Wolf as sorta a Doc like character, but sorta like Falco in Melee.

Yeah, you should definitely check out Shaddow of the Collosus. Easily one of the most
beutiful and unforgettable games ever.

Ya, it looks pretty amazing. If I find one (I haven't see one for like 3 months), I'll probably get it, or at least if i's a Greatest Hits title (which I"m pretty sure it is).

The ultimate showdown between Captialism and Communism: Nook vs. a Tetris block!
Man, I don't know who to root for, Capitolism or Socialism (Communism). Ya, Tetris is that awsome. A more fair representation is Ganondorf (Capitolism, if you can imagine that) vs. Tingle (Socialism). That is how much Capitolism owns, and Socialism doesn't!

True, Marth and Ike have plat styles just dissimilar enough that having one as a clone of the other would be out of place - but having two characters who look so similar representing a diverse francise like Fire Emblem would be hugely disapppointing.
Then have three. I could see three happening, it is very likely after all.

Marth is not nearly as important as you think as he and Ike are tied in terms of number of games they have starred in. Plus, the majority of Fire Emblem fans today have neverplayed Marth's games (more FE games are sold outside Japan than within currently).
True, but Marth is still much more important than most of the desired FE characters.

Sure, Marth's place in the series was an important one - I just think he has been adequetly been payed tribute to after starring in one Smash Bros game. Now its time for Ike to take his rightful spot as the new FE rep.
How about we get both, and *insert another FE character here*.

Actually, yes it would. But FE games have been on the Japanese VC since Christmas and Nintendo has yet to indicate that they will be brought to North America or anywhere else.
Thought it would, though I forgot that FE was already on the VC in Japan. Seriously, I should change my Wii location to Japan just to get it. Then again, it would be in Japanese, much like that ROM I played of it, and I wish I understood what they were saying! :mad: Something tells me that story was good, and I was definitely missing out on not being able to understand it.

If Nintendo was to release the Japan only FE on the VC, they could make good profits. Seriously, that would be a briliant bussiness move, along with Mother 1 (Earthbound Zero). If Nintendo released their best selling Japan only classic titles worldwide on the VC, they could make good profits, as well as a huge stand, and that would be a huge step forward and up for the Wii.

Kirby's adventure is on VC, but no Metroid yet. I would love to play the Japanese FEgames on VC, but until Marth shows his ugly mug outside Japan I will continue to consider him unworthy of representing his series.
Kirby's Adventure is friggen awsome, but no Metroid, wat??? The original Metroid is awsome, the VC NEEDS it, along with a bunch of other games. Hopefully the VC eventually gets Earthbound, Super Metroid, SMB2&3, SMW2: Yoshi's Island, Super Mario RPG, Chrono Trigger, Paper Mario, and SSB64. Ya, all those games are awsome!

There's nothing ******** about replacing the minor characters in Melee with new ones. Smah Bros will still be Smash Bros if G&W or Marth are cut - and the characters who get in instead of them may wind up being even more popular. Would you really prefer to see all the non-clone Melee characters stay if it meant one of your favorite potential newcomers didn't make the cut?
What I'm trying to say is replacing a character we know, with someone we hardly know is retarted. Like what was atempted to be done in Melee, where Ness was suppose to be replaced by Lucas. In fact, that is exactly what I am trying to say.

Depends who we are talking about, and the situtation. If it comes down to anyone vs. WW Link, then idc about them, I want my #1 man=WW Link. But if it's some stupid character noone likes (like Link's Uncle in ALTTP) vs. anyone in Melee, I'd keep the Melee character. It really depends on the situation, characters, and why a character is cut.

No matter who gets cut, there will be people who are upset. I'm be sad to see Doc go. Others will be mad when Sheik is cut. Even Pichu has his fans. But this change will ultimately be for the better, as each character cut will mean that a new character will make the cut.
Hopefully not wastes of spot characters. Depends on the characters that makes it.

Being in the Brawl roster is not a right given to any Nintendo owned character - but a privilage affored to the greatest characters from the greatest series. Aside from the original 12 veteran characters - no one is safe. Only characters who have constributed to a currently relevant and thriving franchise should return, in my view. Smash isn't a retirement home for outdated and irrelivant characters, its an elite group that Nintendo (and now 3rd party) allstars.
Not even all the original 12 is safe, and I'm not sure if you believe that rumor that all the original 12 are returning or not, but even some of them aren't guarenteed. Just look what was attempted to be done on Ness in Melee, Sakurai tried to replace him with Lucas (one of the few dumb things this genius tried to do), but overall the original 12 are pretty safe, 10 of them are for sure, and 2 of them (I'm assuming Ness and Jiggs) well, have at most a 2% chance of being cut, if even that! They're about as safe as you can get, but not confirmed.

But none of the characters are unimportant, are they (other than Pichu and Doc)? Still, I don't see IC going, they have too much uniqueness, and are very useful. Marth I don't see going, give or take the lowest chances he have are probably around and about 60% (though I think his chances are much higher). Roy IMO is on the fence, neither in or out, but generally that is where he stands. G&W I have no clue, and noone can be sure he's in or out.

Also it isn't aretirement home if it keeps retro characters, and without retro characters we'd be missing a good portion of the roster. However, the series needs to maintain that perfect balance it has had between retro charcters (*cough* keep IC!), classic and still thriving characters (the dominate category), and newer modern characters (the smallest group *cough* Olimar and Miis).

Clones like Doc and Young Link are just as popular as original characters, so that criteria is useless. Rather than choose who will return based on how popular characters are (which is subject to change as characters are tweaked with each new game) a character's worthiness should be judged on the games in which they have appeared in recent years. If they havn't made an appearance in a game since Melee, then they shouldn't return. And even if they have (in the case of Falco) they still might be replaced if other characters in their series have overshadowed them in recent games.
Ya, YLink had a fairly small fanbase (though once he becomes WW Link, things could very well change=WW Link for god tier!!!), but Doc had a overall good reception, with a good sized fanbase. Despite Doc having a good fanbase, most Mario users don't want him to return, or prefer he'd just be a alternate costume. Personally I liek the idea of a Doc character now, it sneaks another character into the game, without removing anyone.

So most of the retro characters, includuing popular ones should be replaced by newer characters to video gaming, that aren't nearly as important in video gaming as they are=??? Falco isn't going anywhere, just look at my ideas above, and you'll get how 4 SF reps is easy.

THanks for the recomendation. I'll ahve to check those games out when I have a chance.
*cough* FF VI pwns!

Don't shoot the messanger, but a reviewer on 1up.com, Shane Betanhousan, has been blasting the Japanese FFII as the worst game in the series lately on the 1up Yours Podcast. I've never played the game though, so it might still be great.
Well, from what I've played of the FF 1, 2, and 3, I gottta say I is the best. II and III are about equal, but there has never been a bad FF game. Despite I being the best of the 3, IV pwns them, and VI, VII, and VIII, well let's just say a cult following is considered small compared to their fanbase, and those games are considered some of the greatest games ever (including myself). O, and the 2nd game in a series usually isn't reviewed too well, I have plenty of backup to prove this.

A game doesn't have to be good to count as a game. Face it, Yoshi is now the star of his own mini franchise.
I'm not denying he has his own franchise (or is developing it), but he hasn't strayed too far away from Mario.

Yeah, but TP introduced Wii controls, which made the whole experiance feel fresh.

Regardless, when you look at games like LoZ, ALttP and OoT its clear that the Zelda series has been far more ground breaking than Pokemon - which has just improved on the same formulae from game to game.
The first two gens of Pokemon were completely revolutionary. The 3rd, well, let's just say it had only a few improvements (but had awsome Pokemon like Deoxys and Blazekein, and had a neat new 2 on 2 system), and the 4th gen added online (play, trade, and communication), a few new neat battle system things, etc. Overall the 3rd adn 4th gen of Pokemon aren't as innovative as OOT or TP, but they definitely are pretty neat and still pretty inovative to say the least.

Miis haven't been officually confirmed for the game, so they aren't a proper rep for the series yet. Animal Crossing on GC and DS are two of the finest Nintendo games in recent memory and they deserve representation in Brawl. Miis didn't appear in either game, but Nook has.
Well I want to play as my AC human in Brawl! O wait AC humans were upgraded into Miis=that works. I can just about 100% guarentee you AC Wii will use the Miis, or some form or altered Miis. It's just a matter of when Nintendo confirms them basically, and we want to play as our customizable character, not tha racoon.

Yeah, that's why Jiggs and Pichu were put in Melee. Thet're about as Big and Bad as you can get. Same goes for Ness, Kirby, Yoshi, Peach...
Ness=I'm not all that was cut from Earthbound in Japan to everywhere else. Let us say a lot of it is obviously and unobviously innapropriate! :chuckle: If I told you half the stuff that was removed from the worldwide release of Earthbound, you'd be cracking up, and would be like "WTF???" for the next ten hours! :chuckle: Peach has beaten the life out of several people before, just look at SPM, and SMB2.

Lack of information about his past may make Falco mysterious, but there is no denying that his importance in the stories of Adventures and Assault was less than Krystal and Wolf, respectively. Again, I havn't played Command yet (no more spoilers, please) but my undersatnding is that Falco's role in the game is about equal to Krystal, Wolf, Peppy, Slippy. etc. not more.
I would tell you all he does in Command (much of it is funny), but you dn't want to hear spoilers so I won't say. Same goes for why Peppy, Slippy, and Peppers aren't as important as Wolf, Falco, and Krystal.

Oooooooo. Battle Droids and Geonosians. How impressive. The Dark Vader from the original series wouldn't have broken a sweat on those pitiful enemies.
The best stuff takes place inbetween the trilogies=Vader pwning all the remaning Jedi. Hopefully the Star Wars games go there, much like the 08 Star Wars game, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is going (which will be written partially by George Lucas, and you get to be Vader's Secret Apprentice=o ya!). That is where Vader pwns the most ***!

Dooku was set up as this important villian in part two, only to be killed off faster than you can say "plot hole".
Actually, the funny thing is all the gaps between Episode II and III make sense after watching (get this!) a Cartoon Network Clone Wars mini-series! Seriously, most of the stuff you don't get, including characters like Count Dooku, Anakin Skywalker, and especially General Greivious actually makes sense. Plus the whole opening 15-20 minutes make complete sense, along with some Episode I and II content. Ya I konw, random=I didn't believe it when I first heard it, but it's true. :grin:

I guess my probelm with the prequels is that the writing didn't live up to the emense potential. The original Trilogy was so great because it is all one story. Episode I,II and III don't fit together quite so neatly - and ultimately III hold up better on its own without the other two prequels unnecessarily dragging out the plot.
III pwns all, and read my post above and you'll get what I mean by them actually fiting together nicely. I'm njk either, it actually does plot it together!

If you want to see a truly great contemporary Sci-Fi Saga, you should check out the new Battlesat Galactica series. It makes the Star Wars movies look like Sesame Street.
I saw the first 3 seasons of it with my friend, as a sort of deal where I watch his fav series, he plays my fav game. Fortunately I brought him to the Dark Side, so now he likes Smash=even if it sucked (it was actually pretty good), anything is worth having another Smash player, unless they are a scrub! :chuckle:

Pichu was intended as a handycap character - it says so on his trophy. He was made poorly on purpose so that truly great players could humiliate their oponents by beating them with Pichu. If ChuDat can own with Pichu, it proves that he is a great player - not that Pichu is a good character.
Pichu was a experimental type of character I suppose, but generally Pichu failed. Sure it has some advantages over Pikachu (I barely know either in Melee, so don't ask me what), but generally it was a experiment, a experiment that showed what Sakurai shouldn't make a character do=damage itself.

And ya, ChuDat is one of the best players out there, and is up there in the power ranks. Plus, add his mad Pichu skillz with IC=ownage! Seriously, someone made a 8 minute vid of his IC combos at just one tourney, and they were all amazing combos!

Since Doc clones take very little time to program and are quite popular, I don't see them as a waiste of space at all.
Not much work, doesn't require anyone to leave or not be included over them=why not!

Yeah, the CD-i games make for great comedy, but I wouldn't wish them on anyone - even communists. That would be just cruel.:laugh:
It says (or should say) in the CD-i maual that you must go to a padded room for 2 years for each minute of playing that awful system. I'm sorry commies for being too harsh, even you don't deserve it! *sob* Well, maybe the people who put you in communism do...

Side Note: Sorta off topic, but I just had a thought for WW Link's outfits. He obviously gets the ordinary green tunic, plus the red, light purple, blue, and black one, but also he should have his Island clothes (the blue shirt+orange pants).

I had the same thought with TP Link, but a bit diffrent. Obviously, he should keep his 5 Melee outfits, andenhance them graphically (even if graphics aren't that important to me), and give him his starting clothing, zora outfit, and two magic armor ones (purple and the regular ones, minus the invincibility), and of course the gold outfit! (that outfit is sick, obviously no strength bonus)

Sure I'm not expceting Link to have 10 outfits (though that would be sick), but it would be awsome and sick, nonetheless. Hopefully he at least gets his starting ranch clothing, because that would be a prett awsome outfit, definitely a original=much more diverse than usual in terms of Smash alternate costumes.
 

Devastlian

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2001
Messages
1,618
Location
Rodeo, California.
Yes, I understand that, but why take up more character space when Link can easily just have alternate costumes? We all know they are different Link's, but I still think they should be categorized together (say if you want to change into the Wind Waker Link costume, it should say Wind Waker Link, or something along those lines to separate them.)
Because having a seperate character sharing a spot with another character outside of a transformation is kind of a stretch. Shaving off about a foot and half off of him and giving him different stats and moves as an alternate skin would be kind of awkward just to keep the character select screen pretty.
 

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
3,161
Location
Somewhere
Yet Another Wall of Text

This is what I get for leaving for two weeks. On the other hand, I can blame every other poster here for posting so much stuff. Ceriously...go play a videogame or something.

*While reading this, keep in mind that I quote stuff in the order I read it, so if I answered something that'd already been answered, just ignore it. I tried to avoid doing that, but I think I might've missed one or two instances.

Johnknight1 said:
A ton more people would rather have Wolf, Krystal, and/or Falco over Nook, who's a taturaru (or watever)
I'm pretty sure he's a raccoon. You're thinking of a Tanooki/Tanuki, which is basically a Japanese raccoon. What species Nook is supposed to be...I have no clue.

And I'd rather play as him than any other Nintendo character...well, maybe Tingle...other than that, it's Nook or bust.

Wiseguy said:
Klonoa was essentially the PS1 equivalent of Viewtiful Joe.
Except that Klonoa wasn't as amazingly good as VJ. And Klonoa's games are consistently good, whereas Capcom saw fit to give us rubbish like Red Hot Rumble and Double Trouble...

Wiseguy said:
No, I don't. As soon as characters who havn't appeared in video games like "Professor" Andorss, it opens to door to others - like *shudders* Shigeru Miamoto as a playable character.
Technicaly, Miyamoto is in Wii Sports. Very technically.

Anyway, I still disagree: Andross has been in lots of games. You might never see his body, but it can't be too different from Oikonny's. He's a really nebulous character in this scenario...there's no other character argument quite like it. I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't think he should be excluded on such a technicality.

Wiseguy said:
Luckily, I have nothing to worry about. Jumpman has been in Smash Bros since the SSB 64 (you might know him as "Mario") and I'm still here.
I guess Doc doesn't count then.

Wiseguy said:
FE is a very niche franchise - and I think one character and one clone is pretty fair.
Wait, aren't you for three characters? Or have I confused you with someone else?

Wiseguy said:
Pokemon games might sell well, but they haven't set the standard for what a videogame can be.
They rule the roost of "collection games", portable RPGs, and pioneered the "social genre" way before EverQuest came along. Digimon, Spectrobes and Monster Rancher try to match what Pokemon has acheived, but have never succeeded. The Pokemon games are the most versatile RPGs out there. Does that count for nothing?

Wiseguy said:
No, Belmont doesn't star in the DS games to my knowlege (haven't played them either) but I unserdtand he is the most prominent character in the series so he probably stands the best shot.
Well, there's more than one Belmont. But Simon, being not only the original, but the star of more Castlevanias than any other, as well as the star of the best one (Super IV), makes him the go-to-guy when you need a vampire killed.

Julius Belmont's in Dawn of Sorrow, and if I remember correctly, Richter is mentioned (not to mention playable in the extra modes) in Portrait of Ruin. Simon still wins, though.

Vali said:
...the only notable Toad of late has been Toadsworth, who as I'm sure we can all agree, sucks.
Indeed.

Johnknight1 said:
Earthbound>FE
No. Just...no.

Johnknight1" said:
Again, ALL the DBZ games suck IMO!
Clearly this man/woman/potato has yet to play DragonBall Z: Budokia Tenkaichi 2 on Wii.

Johnknight1 said:
If I find a website asking for signatures to have Mother 3 go worldwide, I'll sign it a million times!
Uh, I think starmen.net did that a while ago. Of course, it failed, and now they're just trying to localize it unofficially. I think that got canned too, after Ninty caught wind of what was going on.

Johnknight1 said:
while Sora does those crazy air combos he whole game through. Crono is overpowered, but Sora is far more overpowered, seriously, I could do 1,00 hit combos, triple finishing attacks, mad elemental and gravity and time stopping attacks by the end of Kingdom Heats II, plus I can fly=awsome, but not for Brawl.
When you first control Sora, he can do but one aerial attack: a vertical swing. Now THAT'S what I call crazy, right?

Nerdisms:
1. You can only do a maximum of 2 finishing blows in KH2.
2. Magic stinks in both 3D KHs.
3. It takes a heck of alot of Nobodies to glide outside of Final. And then, it's only useful when fighting Sephiroth.

Vali said:
I've just realised im going on holiday at the start of E3 and that means that i'll now be getting the Smash Bros. news about a week later than everyone else.


Ferro De Lupe said:
In exchange for Kahn, I offer Andy of the Advance Wars series. Advance Wars is rapidly growing to Fire Emblem popularity and Andy, being the protagonist of the first two games and making a playable cameo in the third, is the face of the franchise.
Yay, someone besides me who wants some AW love. Jake'll always be cooler, but Andy's the OG, so it all works out.

Ferro De Lupe said:
Personally speaking, I find Rayman to be more likely than Megaman.
Rest assured, we'll not be seeing any Western creations in Brawl. Japanese developers are never very recpetive to them, and besides that, Rayman's gone astray from where he should be: platforming it up in the only game as good as Mario 64, Rayman 2.

Ferro De Lupe said:
Never mind the fact that you're completely disregarding the rule Sakurai made about "only 1-2 more after Snake"
That's not a rule, just a loose and general term laid out a year ago.

Ferro De Lupe said:
I refuse to call Shiek female until the body figure matches that of a female. Screw the trophy in Melee! It's easy to see that Nintendo did that to cover their butts so the soccer moms didn't hit them up with "You have a transsexual in your game! I don‘t want my kids exposed to that!" lawsuits. Offer me viable proof and I might reconsider.
Totally with you on that. It's "he" in Ocarina, but "she" in Melee? What gives?

Wiseguy said:
Yeah, Hunters just might be my favorite DS game as well. If only I didn't suck so badly at the online multiplayer...
Protip: Sylux always wins.

Wiseguy said:
I beg to differ. Earthbound might be all that, but as far as most gamers are concerned, it was only one game - not a franchise (since only one game was released outside Japan). I've never played Earthbound, but I can't imagine how it could top Path of Radiance - that was the best RPG ever, as far as I'm concenred.
I agree with the first part: EB is just that...Earthbound. Unless you researched it, you'd never know it's actually called "Mother".

However...to say Path of Radiance is the best RPG ever means you've never played Vagrant Story on the PSX.

Wiseguy said:
As for Resetti, he could be Nook's Final Smash Attack. Nook presses reset on a Gamecube and a Huge Ressetti pops out of the ground and begins wrecking havock. Either that or he calls in the Racoon Goons...
Hot dang, that's the best idea I've heard all day!

Wiseguy said:
though I now find the other two prequels painful to watch
How did Jango die so easily? Wasn't he like, the total beez-kneez?

Dylan Tnga said:
...popularity of character should not be taken into mind when creating a new smash game. Purely gameplay is all that matters.
If that's how you feel, then go play any of the countless 3D fighting games with ridiculous or nonexistent storylines with cliche characters (I highly reccomend Virtua Fighter 5). But Smash Bros. has never, and will never be, anything but a character game made to please fans of said characters by giving them direct (and often largely expanded) control of them. Gameplay is important, but if Brawl had a cast of 50 wire frames...I wouldn't buy it.

Wiseguy said:
Interesting point. Advance wars is a great series, but what would his moveset entail? I imagine his guns are off the table (real world weapons, after all) so that leaves us with a character who can wack people with a wrench. Not that exciting, if you ask me.
Andy doesn't use guns, just a wrench. And if a wrench doesn't beat a wodden mallet or a sword, then I must've picked my nose a little too hard last time.

Ferro De Lupe said:
(to my knowledge, B.J. only has Mario Kart DD.)
I think he's in Mario Power Tennis (GCN). But I could be wrong. Oh, and then there's that really, really quirky jumping simulator...Super Sunshine or something.

Ferro De Lupe said:
I do believe that he is still quite popular in the games. ( I could be wrong though.)
Not really. He's hard to get in everything after GS, and by the 4th gen, there are better psychic Pokemon to choose from. That coupled with his absence in the story makes him even more unlikely.

Wiseguy said:
Tingle more likely than WW Link? I have to disagree. The fact that Tingle's games are a no show outside Japan suggests that Nintendo has concluded (rightly or wrongly) that Tingle is a liability to their Western market. Conversly, WW link will very likely be a peace offering to all the Young link players who are prepared to burn effigies of Sakurai when their favorite character is cut from the roster.
If Tingle's such a liability, then so is WW Link. Remember, TP was originally going to be WW2 (Phantom Hourglass, basically), but Aonuma learned of how unpopular WW was in the West, and in a pinch, decided to make a game soley to appeal to our (completely wrong) sensibilities.

For the record, I would've liked to have WW2 more than TP.

Wiseguy said:
Has anyone esle here played it? If you could reassure me that my money was well spent, I would appreciate it.
Yeah, I played the game. I think it stank. You really should go pick up VI on GBA, or wait for the IV remake on DS.

My biggest problem with it is that despite it being a "remake", it still clings to the dead (and I mean DEAD) trappings of early 90s RPGs.

"What do you mean I can't buy Phoenix Downs!?"

Wiseguy said:
Alright, I'm laying down the gauntlet. I want all you clone haters who share Smash Daddy's opinion to explain why you hate clones. Were characters like Luigi, Falco and Young link really so horrible in Melee? Don't they allow Sakurai's team to include far more characters than they otherwise would be able to? Give me your reasons why clones shouldn't be included and let's settle this once and for all!
The problem is that we'd rather have seen Falco, Luigi, and Y. Link with original movesets. Some of us really like those characters, and it's a bit of a letdown to see that they're basically the same as another character (and in some cases, worse).

I don't want to see Midna play like Zelda: I want to play as Midna. I don't want to play as Ike twice: I want to play as the Black Knight. Get it?

Wiseguy said:
I suspect I may have missed out on some of the greatest RPGs by failing to purchase a SNES. I'll have to check out FF V and VI on GBA after I complete FFIII.
Yeah, sorta'.

Skip V and play VI (then IV). V has no story or value, and the only thing good about it is a bigger job system...not worth the price of admission, if you ask me.

Wiseguy said:
Incidentily, FFIII has possibily the most laughibly shallow plot in RPG history - and I can't get enough of it!
Then you've never played Legend of Heroes.

Wiseguy said:
As for why Zelda should get more representaion thatn Pokemon, I still think that Zelda has been a more important series, overall. Sure, the original Pokemon may have been groundbreaking initially, but every game since has been pretty much the same. Also, the console games have been somewhat lacking in depth. Zelda games have consistently set the standard for what a game should be - from the NES to the Wii and everywhere in between. With Pokemon, you either love the series or you hate it. With Zelda, you either love or you're insane.
Pokemon isn't a console series though, just like Tetris. So don't count them.

And as far as Zelda goes, the first game was innovative...Ocarina was innovative...but everything in between (Zelda II notwithstanding) has basically copied off of either LOZ or Ocarina. Sure, there've been changes, but there are changes to Pokemon too.

For the record, I like Zelda more than Pokemon...but only by a little.

Ferro De Lupe said:
Toad has more significance than you might think.
Yeah, he hid in an outhouse during Luigi's Mansion.

"Yippy Skip-Yahoo" indeed.

Wiseguy said:
Oh, its certainly possible. But should Star Fox get more than three reps when Metroid (a far greater and more important franchise) could only get two (three, if you count Zamus)? I don't think so.
Oh snap. Never thought of it that way. But then, there really aren't too many options for Metroid characters, are there? Don't say the Hunters, because half of them are completely uninspired.

Ferro De Lupe said:
I personally would take Nephenee over any other character in the FE universe, but that's just me.
And me!

Wiseguy said:
I've been tossing around the idea of a Stage Predictions thread, but I havn't gotten around to it yet. One of the ones one my list was Delfino Plaza, though I didn't expect it to include a moving platform. Clearly, alot of creative thought has gone into designing these stages, and I couldn't be more excited.
Just integrate it into this thread. Streamline the character section (i.e. either shrink, link to, or remove the pictures), then add a stage category for us to whine about.

Also, are you sure that alot of thought went into Isle Delfino? Sure they didn't just slap Mute City on an island and call it a day? ;)

Johnknight1 said:
Has there ever been a bad FF game=???
Let's see...

Mystic Quest
FF2
FFXI
FFX-2
Dirge of Cerberus

And that's just the clearly bad ones. There are some big issues in V, VII, VIII, IX, X and XII that turn me off. I'm also not counting "sort of" games like the Chocobo games or cameos like in Ehrgeiz.

In comparison, the only bad Zelda games are the non-Nintendo developed CD-i ones.

Johnknight1 said:
Shadow of the Collossus, I was thinking of getting that plus the GTA and DMC special editions (both with 3 AWSOME games for $20), God Of War, and Shadow of the Collosus. Heck, one of my friends' favorite game is Shadow of the Collossus.
Rightly so. The game has basically the best story of anything last generation, hands-down. Not to mention having stuff that Twilight Princess lacked (a big, open and non-loading world, an emotionally involving plot, and horse physics). In fact, if you crossed Collossus with Okami...you'd basically get the perfect Zelda game!

Maybe the PS2 ain't so bad after all...

Johnknight1 said:
They are all awesome and amazing games, probably one of the few series that can rival Zelda in exellence and innovation. Seriously, both series have constantly pushed the limits of their genre (for Zelda action-RPG's, and action adventure genre, and FF the RPG and action-RPG genre). Without either of them, video gaming wouldn't be half as good=not exaggerating. And that is just Twilight Princess!
Not quite. FF, in it's genre of storytelling, has always lacked that element (Square relies on two plot devices: planet vs. people and empire vs. rogues, sometimes even using both in the same game, and a handful of character archetypes), and where gameplay is concerned...outside of the ATB gauge, FF has nothing on other games like Grandia or Shadow Hearts. The games always look great, but that alone isn't enough.

Johnknight1 said:
Hmm...online and new sick Pokemon are all I can think of. Pokemon has built upon perfection several times, adding new layers. I could say TP did the same thing, bulit upon perfection that OOT, MM, and WW+it's own personal twist (virtual reality, a new world, a few new weapons). Pokemon D/P add new Pokemon, a new world, online play and trade, and a whole lot of other stuff.
Exactly. Zelda doesn't innovate with every entry (no serialized game does), and neither does Pokemon. They both set a bar in their respective genres, and continue to raise it with every entry...but Zelda's not exaclty blowing Collossus or Okami out of the water here, is it?

Johnknight1 said:
Regardless, when you look at games like LoZ, ALttP and OoT its clear that the Zelda series has been far more ground breaking than Pokemon - which has just improved on the same formulae from game to game.
ALttP just improved on the formula of LOZ. Ocarina is the only other major paradigm shift Zelda's come out with in it's history. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for Pokemon (2 big revolutions)...but 1 out of 2 isn't that bad.

Finally. Only one and a half hours of reading and writing...curse you all to heck. Anyway, I leave you with some awesome Collossus artwork, done by none other than yours truly (bonus points if you can tell me where "Earthen Roar" derives from!). I think I'll go throw Agro off a cliff now. :lick:

 

Drascin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
320
Nice Midna moveset there, Ferro. As Wiseguy said, I have always been an advocate of solo Midna, but after reading that, if that's how the team is I wouldn't mind playing a Wolf Link/Midna team. Makes a lot of sense, and would be extremely different and original. Yeah. Wolf Link for Brawl!

Oh, Mendez is back! Let's see what he has to...

*ChiefMendez casts Wall of Text!*
*Critical hit!*
*Drascin suffers 732 damage!*

...Ow. Mendez, man, you don't need to answer to every single post in the thread :p. But I did read everything.

Anyway, I still disagree on your view of Mewtwo, I think he's still much more recognizable than most other legendaries. I'm pretty certain if I asked a few kids around here about pokemon, if I mentioned the likes of Lucario I'd get an absolute "Huh?" look. Also for a lot f others: "You remeber Kyogre?" "Whuzzat?" "You know, the big whale thingy on Sapphire's box" "Oh, yeah, now I remember. That thing kicked ***". But mention Mewtwo, and a spark of recognition will be there, however small, even if they really never played R/B. So he's still very recognizable. Of course this could be a con for him, as Nintendo might feel it's better to promotion some other cool but less known legendary from the last generations (please, let it be Deoxys, if it has to be someone, 'cause if Lucario's there I might have to bite someone). So yeah, I agree Mewtwo has a big chance of not returning. I simply disagree with saying he is not important or recognizable anymore.

As an aside, that pic of SotC is extremely cool. Looks like a promo poster for an hipotethic SotC movie. Very nice work, and saved to HD ^^.

P.D: I hadn't noticed before, but nice sig ;). It would be cheating but it would be oh so cool :chuckle:. Fighting as Nagato FTW!
 

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
3,161
Location
Somewhere
^^^
I actually wound up skimming heavily through alot of text when making that wall. This thread has some abnormally long posts...

I don't necessarily mean Mewtwo's not iconic enough, but he hasn't been featured at all outside of RB and FRLG. I think the question was "is he still popular in the games", and the answer is no. The other factor when considering Pokemon is their presence in the anime, and outside of one (theatrical) movie and two straight-to-home-video movies, we've not seen much of the purple kitty.

"Hypothetic" being the key word here. I'd really hate for Hollywood to ruin the game's amazing story, but the subject matter really makes for a good movie poster.

And I get the feeling that you're not aware of the most recent Dojo update. Dude, S.O.S is totally confirmed for Brawl. No lie.
 

T-major

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,167
Location
Windsor, Ontario, Canada


3) King Dedede



I don't know about you, but I've always felt that Super Smash Bros was lacking in the hammer-wielding-penguin department.

Status: Very likely

On Sakurai’s list: yes

Comments: King Dedede is practically a confirmed character. He was the top ranked character on Sakurai’s poll and seems to extremely popular. As the main villain of the Kirby series and created by Sakurai himself, his chances couldn’t be more high.

Since King Dedede shares many of the same moves as Kirby, he will most likely be a Kirby clone. Just make his Down-B more like Bowser’s, replace Kirby's copying power with the ability to spit out his opponents at high velocities after he eats them and make him more heavy and powerful.
WHAT!!?? your joking right!? King DeDeDe is completely different from Kirby! I can't stress this enough. Dedede's A moves would obviously be different from Kirby's because he has a hammer, and... ugh! just read this!

this list sucks... you also said Mewtwo shouldn't come back, which is just stupid... I really didn't read much of it after that... oh yeah, you said Marth is out, also stupid. he was in the first ever FE game, he's too important.

you fail! good day sir!
 

Ferro De Lupe

Smash Lord
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
1,047
Location
Shawnee, OK
WHAT!!?? your joking right!? King DeDeDe is completely different from Kirby! I can't stress this enough. Dedede's A moves would obviously be different from Kirby's because he has a hammer, and... ugh! just read this!

this list sucks... you also said Mewtwo shouldn't come back, which is just stupid... I really didn't read much of it after that... oh yeah, you said Marth is out, also stupid. he was in the first ever FE game, he's too important.

you fail! good day sir!
Aren't opinions fun?
[/sarcasm]


DeDeDe is very similar to Kirby. They both puff up and float, they both injest enemies, they both use rather large hammers to make a point, they are both spherical in shape...

DeDeDe would make a fine clone of Kirby.


Nice Midna moveset there, Ferro. As Wiseguy said, I have always been an advocate of solo Midna, but after reading that, if that's how the team is I wouldn't mind playing a Wolf Link/Midna team. Makes a lot of sense, and would be extremely different and original. Yeah. Wolf Link for Brawl!
Thank ya kindly, sir! d ( '-' ) b
 

rm88

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
830
NNID
Rm88Go
3DS FC
5241-1973-5614
Yeah, DeDeDe would be a good Kirby clone... if he could copy the enemy's abilities.
 

Ferro De Lupe

Smash Lord
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
1,047
Location
Shawnee, OK
Yeah, DeDeDe would be a good Kirby clone... if he could copy the enemy's abilities.
Does Dr. Mario shoot fireballs? Nope, because the move was altered. The same could be done for DeDeDe. Instead of copying their abilities, he simply chews them up and spits them back out.
 

PRoachND

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
4
Little Mac

No one seems to be mentioning him, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that Little Mac will appear as a playable fighter in Brawl. The Mii (as a boxer) will be his clone.

Mark it down.
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
:laugh:And so begins the largest post I've ever written - but written it shall be!

Some of you might be wondering why I haven't been updating my runners up list lately. The simple answer is that with work and sleep taking up most of my time, I haven't had a chance. Hopefully I'll get some free time later thins week at which point I'll write four or five character profiles to make up for my earlier laziness. I'm still open to suggestions if you guys have any thoughts of which luccky videogame character is worthy of this honour.

Thank ya. And, like I tell everyone, this is only a fan-made moveset. Think what the designers can do...
Very true. Midna/Wolf has more potrntial than most people realize. You should post that moveset on Mendez's Zelda character disscussion thread.

Yes, I understand that, but why take up more character space when Link can easily just have alternate costumes? We all know they are different Link's, but I still think they should be categorized together (say if you want to change into the Wind Waker Link costume, it should say Wind Waker Link, or something along those lines to separate them.)
Should they do that? Its arguable. Will they do that? Judging by the fact that Dr. Mario and Young Link were given their own spots on the Melee roster, I doubt it. Any way, WW Link would require desiging a whole new wire frame (though they could still clone his moveset for TP Link) so he would be as much of a separate character as you can get.


Yes, but I don't expect all clones to reach Luigi's level of originality in Melee (maybe a bit below his SSB64 self is where I put him at). Also, I think there well could be one Docs in Brawl, maybe even two. I'm also pretty sure at most we'll see 6 clones, Luigified, Docs, and everything inbetween. But I'm guessing we'll see anywhere from 2-5 primaraly, however.
That's a pretty reasonable prediction. I could definitely live with that, though I'm one of the few who is actually hoping for quite a few clones as it would increase the total number of characters dramatically. Making them as unique as Luigi would be great, but like you said its probably not realistic.

Stop tempting me=I love Waluigi. I think Mii's are very likely, but I generall give them a bit less than 50/50 chance. I could be wrong, but I assume that is accurate.
A one in two chance is probably fair - maing Mii one of the more likely candidates but nowhere near the level of Diddy or Dedede (funny how those two sound alike) which isn't too shaby considering that none of use would have even considered the character a year ago.

It pushed the limits of sidescrolling gmaes, by having unique and challenging enemies (towards the end at least), having a amazing rope swinging feature, the ability to switch characters, and use their special abilities, strategies behind using items, plus it had a perfect balance of bonus content and collectables. Not to mention each character had their own special powers, abilities, and strengths and weaknesses that you would have to exploit/cover-up. Well, at least the first two DKC games did that (the 3rd did, but to a much lesser extent). :chuckle:
It may have polished the forulae introduced by Mario's earlier games - but I wouldn't call DKC as revolutionary as the original Zelda (which basically invented the adventure game and was the first to use a save feature) or OoT which set a new standard for what a videogame could be at the time. That legacy of breaking the mold multiple times is why I consider Zelda to be a more important franchise than Pokemon of DKC.

Funny thing, I drew Link, King Dedede, Diddy Kong (at the time he was my fav video game charcter, PERIOD!), Kirby, Mario, and Fox fighting throughout them. Maybe Sakurai is trying to tell me something, like King Dedede and Diddy Kong will be in Brawl, even if they are basically guarenteed newcomers! :chuckle: Maybe it means we'll get up to 6 or 8 players online=??? Okay, that one I could be a little hopeful with, but it would be intresting to try out.
Say JohnKight1, could you draw a pic of Commander Kahn in Brawl and leave the paper unattended for an hour or two?


That is the stage I definitely want to see more of, or at least more than any other stage. I'm not sure which I like more, the FE castle, or Delfnio Plaza (the level I made! :chuckle: ;) :laugh:). The FE castle looks awsome, and so does that other FE stage (the one with the statues holding up those platforms).
I'm little confused in that regard. Are there two FE stages (one inside the castle and one on top of it) or is one massive Hyrule Temple style stage? Time will tell...

The stat changes for clones is something really neat to ad to them, plus look at Fox and Falco, and msot of their attacks effect you in very diffrent ways. Stuff like varying stats and effects, knockback, and damage by attacks definitely give clones, well a taste of originality.
I completely agree.


I could go either way. However, I think the wisest idea Sakurai could follow to include a SF character last minute would be to leave Fox generally the same, add Krystal with a original moveset, give Falco his old moveset, but sorta decloned (semi-Luigified), and add Wolf as sorta a Doc like character, but sorta like Falco in Melee.
That could work, but not before many of the other characters get a clone. Fox already has one clone, he doesn't need tow - in my humble opinion.


Ya, it looks pretty amazing. If I find one (I haven't see one for like 3 months), I'll probably get it, or at least if i's a Greatest Hits title (which I"m pretty sure it is).
Good call. Since I don't own a PS2, I'm limited to GC, Wii and DS games at the moment. Of the few PS2 games I've played, I also recomend Dragon Quest VIII and Metal Gear Solid 3. If only I could play 24 the Game....

Then have three. I could see three happening, it is very likely after all.
I hope we see three, but I somehow doubt it. If we do see three FE characters in Brawl, Marth's chances increase - though I'd personally prefer to see both the Black Knight and Miciaiah ahead of him.

True, but Marth is still much more important than most of the desired FE characters.
Most of them, but not all. Ike is arguably ahead of him (since non-Japanese people can actually but his games...) but Miciaiah is pretty close since her inclusion would help her game sell this fall.

Thought it would, though I forgot that FE was already on the VC in Japan. Seriously, I should change my Wii location to Japan just to get it. Then again, it would be in Japanese, much like that ROM I played of it, and I wish I understood what they were saying! :mad: Something tells me that story was good, and I was definitely missing out on not being able to understand it.

If Nintendo was to release the Japan only FE on the VC, they could make good profits. Seriously, that would be a briliant bussiness move, along with Mother 1 (Earthbound Zero). If Nintendo released their best selling Japan only classic titles worldwide on the VC, they could make good profits, as well as a huge stand, and that would be a huge step forward and up for the Wii.
No arguments here. Nintendo's decision to neglect the non-Japanese FE and Earthboud fans by failing to localize these game on VC is just a poor bussiness decision - plain and simple.

Kirby's Adventure is friggen awsome, but no Metroid, wat??? The original Metroid is awsome, the VC NEEDS it, along with a bunch of other games. Hopefully the VC eventually gets Earthbound, Super Metroid, SMB2&3, SMW2: Yoshi's Island, Super Mario RPG, Chrono Trigger, Paper Mario, and SSB64. Ya, all those games are awsome!
All those are great ideas, though my heart is still set on Perfect Dark, Golden Eye and SSB64. If you REALLY want to dream, how about Starcraft - not the N64 version but the REAL game. With motion controls for a precise RTS interface and online play. Now THAT would print money.


What I'm trying to say is replacing a character we know, with someone we hardly know is retarted. Like what was atempted to be done in Melee, where Ness was suppose to be replaced by Lucas. In fact, that is exactly what I am trying to say.

Depends who we are talking about, and the situtation. If it comes down to anyone vs. WW Link, then idc about them, I want my #1 man=WW Link. But if it's some stupid character noone likes (like Link's Uncle in ALTTP) vs. anyone in Melee, I'd keep the Melee character. It really depends on the situation, characters, and why a character is cut.
Cahnge is good. Embrace it. Hardly anyone had heard of Marth or G&W before their Smash debut. If they are cut, their replacemnts would soon become just as well known as beloved. Chances are, noone will like ALL the characters who make it - but everyone chould be able to find at least one character they love.

Not even all the original 12 is safe, and I'm not sure if you believe that rumor that all the original 12 are returning or not, but even some of them aren't guarenteed. Just look what was attempted to be done on Ness in Melee, Sakurai tried to replace him with Lucas (one of the few dumb things this genius tried to do), but overall the original 12 are pretty safe, 10 of them are for sure, and 2 of them (I'm assuming Ness and Jiggs) well, have at most a 2% chance of being cut, if even that! They're about as safe as you can get, but not confirmed.

But none of the characters are unimportant, are they (other than Pichu and Doc)? Still, I don't see IC going, they have too much uniqueness, and are very useful. Marth I don't see going, give or take the lowest chances he have are probably around and about 60% (though I think his chances are much higher). Roy IMO is on the fence, neither in or out, but generally that is where he stands. G&W I have no clue, and noone can be sure he's in or out.

Also it isn't aretirement home if it keeps retro characters, and without retro characters we'd be missing a good portion of the roster. However, the series needs to maintain that perfect balance it has had between retro charcters (*cough* keep IC!), classic and still thriving characters (the dominate category), and newer modern characters (the smallest group *cough* Olimar and Miis).
Nothing is for certain, and I doubt the validity of the rumor you metioned, but I still think Ness' status as one of the original 12 makes him safe. He, Captain Falcon and Jiggs have been with the series since the beggining, so I suspect that Sakurai will keep them for the sake of continuity. Its the same reason why Goldeen is making his third appearance - some things have been with Smash so long that they take on a life of their own.

I'm all for retro characters appearing - as a guest appearance. Intead of keeping the same retro chaacters game afater game, each instalment of Smash should include a new batch of cool but forgotten characters. Melee had ICs and G%W. Brawl can have Pit and one or two others (Geno and Balloon Fighter come to mind). Only characters from a currently thriving series deserve to hang with legends like Mario, Link and Snake permanently.

Ya, YLink had a fairly small fanbase (though once he becomes WW Link, things could very well change=WW Link for god tier!!!), but Doc had a overall good reception, with a good sized fanbase. Despite Doc having a good fanbase, most Mario users don't want him to return, or prefer he'd just be a alternate costume. Personally I liek the idea of a Doc character now, it sneaks another character into the game, without removing anyone.

So most of the retro characters, includuing popular ones should be replaced by newer characters to video gaming, that aren't nearly as important in video gaming as they are=??? Falco isn't going anywhere, just look at my ideas above, and you'll get how 4 SF reps is easy.
No, retros should be replaces by other retros. Supporting characters like Falco (if they are replaced) will be replaced by other supporting characters like Krytal and Wolf. Four SF reps is certainly possible, but given the huge list of worthy characters I think it's going a bit overboard.

I'm not denying he has his own franchise (or is developing it), but he hasn't strayed too far away from Mario.
There's no arguing with that. All I'm saying is that he shouldn't be counted as Mario series rep in Smash Bros, but rather a represantaive of his own series.

The first two gens of Pokemon were completely revolutionary. The 3rd, well, let's just say it had only a few improvements (but had awsome Pokemon like Deoxys and Blazekein, and had a neat new 2 on 2 system), and the 4th gen added online (play, trade, and communication), a few new neat battle system things, etc. Overall the 3rd adn 4th gen of Pokemon aren't as innovative as OOT or TP, but they definitely are pretty neat and still pretty inovative to say the least.
I'll give you that Pokeom has had its inovations, just not to same extent as Zelda - which is constantly pushing barriers. For the record, a game doesn't have to be revolutionary to be great. Some of my favorite games (Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, Tetris DS) didn't reinvent a genre but perfected what was already great.

Well I want to play as my AC human in Brawl! O wait AC humans were upgraded into Miis=that works. I can just about 100% guarentee you AC Wii will use the Miis, or some form or altered Miis. It's just a matter of when Nintendo confirms them basically, and we want to play as our customizable character, not tha racoon.
Or we can have our cake and eat it too. Nook can represnt past AC games while Mii represents any future games. Everyone wins. And I, for one, totally want to play as that Racoon.

Ness=I'm not all that was cut from Earthbound in Japan to everywhere else. Let us say a lot of it is obviously and unobviously innapropriate! :chuckle: If I told you half the stuff that was removed from the worldwide release of Earthbound, you'd be cracking up, and would be like "WTF???" for the next ten hours! :chuckle: Peach has beaten the life out of several people before, just look at SPM, and SMB2.
Point taken, but I think you'll admit that not all Smash characters have to be like Ridley and Ganondorf. Smash is about including a wide variety of character styles - so Brawl can have characters like Solid Snake for people who like that kind of character and it can also have characters like WW Link and Tom Nook who appeal to a different crowd. Fortunatly for me, I like both realistic and cartoony characters.

I would tell you all he does in Command (much of it is funny), but you dn't want to hear spoilers so I won't say. Same goes for why Peppy, Slippy, and Peppers aren't as important as Wolf, Falco, and Krystal.
Fair enough. I'll rent it ASAP and we'll discuss this afterwards.

The best stuff takes place inbetween the trilogies=Vader pwning all the remaning Jedi. Hopefully the Star Wars games go there, much like the 08 Star Wars game, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is going (which will be written partially by George Lucas, and you get to be Vader's Secret Apprentice=o ya!). That is where Vader pwns the most ***!
Message to George Lucas: Light Saber game on Wii. NOW!

Actually, the funny thing is all the gaps between Episode II and III make sense after watching (get this!) a Cartoon Network Clone Wars mini-series! Seriously, most of the stuff you don't get, including characters like Count Dooku, Anakin Skywalker, and especially General Greivious actually makes sense. Plus the whole opening 15-20 minutes make complete sense, along with some Episode I and II content. Ya I konw, random=I didn't believe it when I first heard it, but it's true. :grin:
I've heard about the Clone Wars from my brother - who caught the whole series on the Cartoon Network. Since it was made by Gendi Tartakofski (the genius behind the beyond awesome Saumerai Jack) I've been searching for the series on DVD. Know anywhere on the interweb where I could view it?

I saw the first 3 seasons of it with my friend, as a sort of deal where I watch his fav series, he plays my fav game. Fortunately I brought him to the Dark Side, so now he likes Smash=even if it sucked (it was actually pretty good), anything is worth having another Smash player, unless they are a scrub! :chuckle:
Like you should have to be forced to watch the BSG series! :laugh: It's the pinacle of what a Sci-Fi drama can deliver. Anyways, you got to see a great series and there's one more Smash fan out there. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Side Note: Sorta off topic, but I just had a thought for WW Link's outfits. He obviously gets the ordinary green tunic, plus the red, light purple, blue, and black one, but also he should have his Island clothes (the blue shirt+orange pants).

I had the same thought with TP Link, but a bit diffrent. Obviously, he should keep his 5 Melee outfits, andenhance them graphically (even if graphics aren't that important to me), and give him his starting clothing, zora outfit, and two magic armor ones (purple and the regular ones, minus the invincibility), and of course the gold outfit! (that outfit is sick, obviously no strength bonus)

Sure I'm not expceting Link to have 10 outfits (though that would be sick), but it would be awsome and sick, nonetheless. Hopefully he at least gets his starting ranch clothing, because that would be a prett awsome outfit, definitely a original=much more diverse than usual in terms of Smash alternate costumes.
Don't worry about getting off topic. This is the Wiseguy thread, and the topic is whatever I say it is, dang it!

I love the idea of including a greater range of alternate costumes for Link and others as long as it isn't too time consuming. How about a Big Boss alternate costume with an eye patch for Snake?



Because having a seperate character sharing a spot with another character outside of a transformation is kind of a stretch. Shaving off about a foot and half off of him and giving him different stats and moves as an alternate skin would be kind of awkward just to keep the character select screen pretty.
Hark, thou speakest truthfully.

I 100% want Mii to be in.

I want to see Snake fight Osama.
I'll second that. Nothing relives stress like destroying Mr. Taliban with a good dose of C4.

This is what I get for leaving for two weeks. On the other hand, I can blame every other poster here for posting so much stuff. Ceriously...go play a videogame or something.

*While reading this, keep in mind that I quote stuff in the order I read it, so if I answered something that'd already been answered, just ignore it. I tried to avoid doing that, but I think I might've missed one or two instances.
Welcome back Mendez. We were getting worried about your absence and were beggining to organize search parties. Incidentilly, don't belive anyone on the Zelda Discussion Thread who tells you that I spread rumors that you and I are the same person.

I'm pretty sure he's a raccoon. You're thinking of a Tanooki/Tanuki, which is basically a Japanese raccoon. What species Nook is supposed to be...I have no clue.

And I'd rather play as him than any other Nintendo character...well, maybe Tingle...other than that, it's Nook or bust.
See JohnKnight1? Nook is more popular than you realize. Nook for Brawl!

Except that Klonoa wasn't as amazingly good as VJ. And Klonoa's games are consistently good, whereas Capcom saw fit to give us rubbish like Red Hot Rumble and Double Trouble...
Poor Joe. Did Capcom really have to ruin his reputation before they killed him?:( Maybe we'll see the read wonder revived one day...

Technicaly, Miyamoto is in Wii Sports. Very technically.
If you're referring to the fact that you can make a Miamoto Mii, then yeah. But by that logic, we'll also see Abraham Lincoln, Simon Cowell and Paris Hilton in Brawl.

Anyway, I still disagree: Andross has been in lots of games. You might never see his body, but it can't be too different from Oikonny's. He's a really nebulous character in this scenario...there's no other character argument quite like it. I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't think he should be excluded on such a technicality.
It's more than a technicallity. Andross with a body has never appeared in a videogame, and Smash is a collection of videogame characters. If Andross is going to be considered for Brawl, it has to be the Andross that appears in the games, not the one created by fans.

I guess Doc doesn't count then.
Doc appeared as a Mario clone because he brought something new to the table: pills. What does the tiny, poorly rendered Jumpman version of Mario have that Mario doesn't? Maybe we'll see a game mode that turns all the Smash characters into pixelated, retro forms - but otherwise, Papaer Mario is a far better choice if another Mario were to be included.

Wait, aren't you for three characters? Or have I confused you with someone else?
I'm in favor of having three characters, I just don't think it will happen. If it were up to me, we'd see more FE characters than Pokemon, but I'm just trying to be realistic. Given FE's relatively small fanbase, I'd say two is what we can expect.

They rule the roost of "collection games", portable RPGs, and pioneered the "social genre" way before EverQuest came along. Digimon, Spectrobes and Monster Rancher try to match what Pokemon has acheived, but have never succeeded. The Pokemon games are the most versatile RPGs out there. Does that count for nothing?
No, it counts - but it doesn't deem the series worthy of the same level of representaion as the Mario and Zelda franchises in my view. I did put Pokemon on the same level as Metroid, so I do repsect the series - even if it's not my cup of tea.

Well, there's more than one Belmont. But Simon, being not only the original, but the star of more Castlevanias than any other, as well as the star of the best one (Super IV), makes him the go-to-guy when you need a vampire killed.

Julius Belmont's in Dawn of Sorrow, and if I remember correctly, Richter is mentioned (not to mention playable in the extra modes) in Portrait of Ruin. Simon still wins, though.
Interesting. I've really got to get aquainted with this series. It sounds like I'm missing out on something special.

:laugh:



Totally with you on that. It's "he" in Ocarina, but "she" in Melee? What gives?
Potatoe. Nuff said.


Protip: Sylux always wins.
Really? It seems to be Spire's one-shot-kill sniper lazer that gets me every time. Regardless, I'm going to stubornly stick to playing as Samus - like the true Metroid fan I am.

I agree with the first part: EB is just that...Earthbound. Unless you researched it, you'd never know it's actually called "Mother".

However...to say Path of Radiance is the best RPG ever means you've never played Vagrant Story on the PSX.
You are correct. Never even heard of that one. I'm somewhat uncultured in the RPG department as my knowlege is limited to Gamecube RPGs - which were not in abundant supply. Hopefully my shiny new DS will have a steady supply of RPGs so I can make up for my waisted childhood.

Hot dang, that's the best idea I've heard all day!
Thanks. To be honest, I think I heard someone else mention it, which is where I got the idea. I just want to see Ressetti in the Brawl in some form.

How did Jango die so easily? Wasn't he like, the total beez-kneez?
Not for very long he wasn't. He met te bussiness end of Samuel L. Jackson's lightsaber before you could could say : waisted oppurtunity". One of many in those movies.

If that's how you feel, then go play any of the countless 3D fighting games with ridiculous or nonexistent storylines with cliche characters (I highly reccomend Virtua Fighter 5). But Smash Bros. has never, and will never be, anything but a character game made to please fans of said characters by giving them direct (and often largely expanded) control of them. Gameplay is important, but if Brawl had a cast of 50 wire frames...I wouldn't buy it.
Here here!

Andy doesn't use guns, just a wrench. And if a wrench doesn't beat a wodden mallet or a sword, then I must've picked my nose a little too hard last time.
I'm guessing the later. In a fight between a guy with a sword and a guy with a wrench, my money's on the sword.

I think he's in Mario Power Tennis (GCN). But I could be wrong. Oh, and then there's that really, really quirky jumping simulator...Super Sunshine or something.
Yep. Bowser Jr. has been in many games, from Mario Tennis, Kart, Baseball, Golf and of course Sunshine.

If Tingle's such a liability, then so is WW Link. Remember, TP was originally going to be WW2 (Phantom Hourglass, basically), but Aonuma learned of how unpopular WW was in the West, and in a pinch, decided to make a game soley to appeal to our (completely wrong) sensibilities.

For the record, I would've liked to have WW2 more than TP.
I'm not saying Tingle is a liability, just that Nintendo seems to treat him like one since all his games stayed in Japan.

I too loved WW, but Twilight Princess is a much better game overall. More dungeons, more fun items, more mini games and side quests, more memorable characters mean that there is simply more of TP to love. I also consider TP's Wii controls to be a vast improvement over all Zelda control schemes. I will give you that WW's graphics are more visually appealing that TP's.

Regardless, we're finally getting a WW sequel with LoZ: Phantom Hourglass on the DS so now everyone can be happy.

Yeah, I played the game. I think it stank. You really should go pick up VI on GBA, or wait for the IV remake on DS.
Dude, I asked for reassurance not reason to second guess my decision. Regardless, I'm far enough into it now that I can say it rocks! So there.

My biggest problem with it is that despite it being a "remake", it still clings to the dead (and I mean DEAD) trappings of early 90s RPGs.
"What do you mean I can't buy Phoenix Downs!?"
I actually prefer more challenging, old school RPGs like Dragon Quest VIII and FF III over the easier, sissifed new school Final Fantasies and Pokemons . But hey, I guess some people need RPGs that hold their hand the whole way through...

"You say your friend was horrebly manged to death in battle? Don't worry dearie, here are a dozen death-revival itmes for a pennie."

The problem is that we'd rather have seen Falco, Luigi, and Y. Link with original movesets. Some of us really like those characters, and it's a bit of a letdown to see that they're basically the same as another character (and in some cases, worse).
maybe, but its now a question of either including a character as a clone or a unique moveset. It's at a point in the game's devlopment where they can either include a couple originals or a half dozen clones. And since clones are just as popular as originals after the initial let down, I say bring on the clones!

I don't want to see Midna play like Zelda: I want to play as Midna. I don't want to play as Ike twice: I want to play as the Black Knight. Get it?
I get it, but would you rather see Midna with an original moveset and no Black Knight or Midna, Black Knight and one other character as clones?

Yeah, sorta'. Skip V and play VI (then IV). V has no story or value, and the only thing good about it is a bigger job system...not worth the price of admission, if you ask me.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll definitely rent V before I put down some serious bucks.


Then you've never played Legend of Heroes.
Seriously Mendez, is there any game you HAVEN'T played?!?!


Pokemon isn't a console series though, just like Tetris. So don't count them.

And as far as Zelda goes, the first game was innovative...Ocarina was innovative...but everything in between (Zelda II notwithstanding) has basically copied off of either LOZ or Ocarina. Sure, there've been changes, but there are changes to Pokemon too.

For the record, I like Zelda more than Pokemon...but only by a little.
The inovations brought forth by the original LoZ and Oot are nothing to sneeze at. Also, Windwaker introduced its revolutionary art style which proved that a videogame could be an artistic masterpiece. Also, TP introduced Wii controls - the ultimate inovation. Pokemon may be great, but it hasn't been nearly as inovative as Zelda.



Oh snap. Never thought of it that way. But then, there really aren't too many options for Metroid characters, are there? Don't say the Hunters, because half of them are completely uninspired.
Dark Samus is a possibilty, but I doubt the Hunters would make it. I still say three is a fair number for Starfox, given the limited number of spots on the roster.

Just integrate it into this thread. Streamline the character section (i.e. either shrink, link to, or remove the pictures), then add a stage category for us to whine about.
Good point. I'll have to consider it. But this is the Brawl Character Discussion section, so stage discussion should probably belong in general Brawl discussion. But then, if we can discuss the merits of Star Wars and Communism on this thread, Stage discussion should also be allowed.

Also, are you sure that alot of thought went into Isle Delfino? Sure they didn't just slap Mute City on an island and call it a day? ;)
It's hard to say, but I think it looks pretty unique. Besides, Mute City is one of my favorite Stages, so the stage rocks either way.


Rightly so. The game has basically the best story of anything last generation, hands-down. Not to mention having stuff that Twilight Princess lacked (a big, open and non-loading world, an emotionally involving plot, and horse physics). In fact, if you crossed Collossus with Okami...you'd basically get the perfect Zelda game!

Bah! Twilight Princess is ten times the game that Collosus is! SotC's "open world" is a barren, boring waistland and it's story is almost nonexistant. Horse physics... okay, you win that one.

Maybe the PS2 ain't so bad after all...
The PS2's library is great, no doubt. The down side: all proceeds go to the evil Sony executives. Did you know that Sony heats their company buildings by burning baby seal oil?




Exactly. Zelda doesn't innovate with every entry (no serialized game does), and neither does Pokemon. They both set a bar in their respective genres, and continue to raise it with every entry...but Zelda's not exaclty blowing Collossus or Okami out of the water here, is it?
Like I've mentioned, Zelda games have inovated more often than not. More examples: Four Swords introduced Console to GBA multiplayer (perhaps too inovative for its own good) and Phantom Hourglass uses the DS in ways never before imagined.

I Havn't played Okami yet, but compared to TP Collosus is a mini game. A fun, beutiful mimi game, but a mini game never the less.

Finally. Only one and a half hours of reading and writing...curse you all to heck. Anyway, I leave you with some awesome Collossus artwork, done by none other than yours truly (bonus points if you can tell me where "Earthen Roar" derives from!). I think I'll go throw Agro off a cliff now. :lick:

Great art work, Mendez. Well done. Don't be a stranger.

WHAT!!?? your joking right!? King DeDeDe is completely different from Kirby! I can't stress this enough. Dedede's A moves would obviously be different from Kirby's because he has a hammer, and... ugh! just read this!

this list sucks... you also said Mewtwo shouldn't come back, which is just stupid... I really didn't read much of it after that... oh yeah, you said Marth is out, also stupid. he was in the first ever FE game, he's too important.

you fail! good day sir!
Hi. Welcome to the my thread.

1) Dedede is a perfect candidate for a Kirby clone. I don't know if you've played a little game called "Super Smash Bros Melee" (it's not very well known, but you should still give it a try) but in that game Kirby's >B move is *GASP* a hammer. The two characters also share the ability to fly and inhail their oponents. Dedede would lack Kirby's transformation ability, obviously, and be much heavier - but it certainly makes mare sense than making Ganondorf a Falcon clone.

2) Mewtwo lacks importance in the recent Pokemon games. He likely won't return.

3) Marth has dimished in importance since there are now FE lord's you've starred in games that people can actually buy outside Japan. He's also a pansy.

Always nice to chat. Have a nice day.

Also, go suck an egg.

Yeah, DeDeDe would be a good Kirby clone... if he could copy the enemy's abilities.
Does Dr. Mario shoot fireballs? Nope, because the move was altered. The same could be done for DeDeDe. Instead of copying their abilities, he simply chews them up and spits them back out.
Well said. Though, I'm not opposed to the idea of a more unique Dx3. I just think a clone is more likely.

King Dedede couldn't a Kirby clone; he has arms and a seperate body and head...A Ice Climber clone would be actually possible.
Other clones, like Young Link and Luigi, have different wire frames also - but their moveset is stil cloned from another character. That's what I'm suggesting.

Gack! 4:15 AM already?! You people are going to be the death of me yet.

Wiseguy out. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,307
Location
K Rool Avenue
Christ. These quote wars make me feel like an outsider...

Dedede would never work as a Kirby clone. He shares the ability to blow up and fly by copying and training to be like Kirby in that sense, and he sucks up enemies, but he shoots them across the screen instead of stealing their abilities. That is where the similarities end. Everything else is pretty different. All his As would use the hammer, he's much larger and heavier, he can attack while blown up like a balloon too, unlike Kirby. He simply could not be a Kirby clone because Kirby's attacks are way too weak-ranged and his Bs are all unlike Dedede except for the sucking, which is not the same as Dedede's. I think it's safe to say as well that as Dedede is the most popular choice for 'Brawl he'll be one of the first to be designed, it's likely also that they'll go the extra mile with him to make him different because of his popularity, and Sakurai's liking for him (obviously).

So... Mmm... Yeah, Dedede could not be a Kirby clone.
 

LukeFonFabre

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
1,094
I think the fact that he is Sakurai's own creation means that he'll probably try to make DeDeDe as unique as possible. There are some similarities between Kirby and DeDeDe, but I feel he'll keep these to a minimal. As Smash Daddy pointed out, DeDeDe is probably one of the first characters he would've worked on.

I think I understand why Wiseguy put DeDeDE as a clone, I just feel Sakurai would try to avoid that happening at almost all costs.
 

Devastlian

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2001
Messages
1,618
Location
Rodeo, California.
Those wire frames were just reshaped, though; their bodies are largely the same just different in size or slight warped. King Dedede has almost a completely different body from Kirby; it's like comparing Donkey Kong to Diddy Kong. If Mr. Sakurai's willing to sacrifice King Dedede of all characters to clonedom then he could very well choose to have Bowser Jr., Lucario, Deoxys, Krystal, and Diddy Kong made into clones.

Two semi-coloned sentences in a row...that can't be good grammar...

Also, what Smash Daddy said.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
Marth is much more important than Micaiah. You argued for the original Zelda, but the original FE character is out of the question? Micaiah plays second seat to Ike, while Marth stars in two FE games. The very first lord should be included because there where games FE games before the international ones. And why should the Black Knight get into brawl. We don't have enough character slots to include villans from FE. Including the First and Last FE lords would be the best choice. And before you say anything about Marth and Ike looking too similar I'll give you some pics.

http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/feova/grupo2.jpg
http://otaku1990.ot.funpic.de/wb/media/retro v/ssbbroster_ike.jpg or if you want to use GoD Ike http://media.wii.ign.com/articles/784/784085/img_4503711.html

It doesn't matter that there are new games, the old games still exist and Marth is still the character everyone thinks of when they hear Fire Emblem. He is the face of the franchise and is already established worldwide (thanks to his inclusion in melee) as THE FIRE EMBLEM guy. The Black Knight's not even that fun to fight in PoR (Ike is broken). You don't even need Aether if you attack every single turn and just have Mist deal with the healers that come to help him. Heck, you didn't even have to fight him, you could just run away and get Ena (who is statistically better than Nasir).
 

LukeFonFabre

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
1,094
Personally, I'd go for the GoD Ike.

But yeah, believe me plenty of, people have tried to convince Wiseguy that Marth should return, but he's pretty stubborn about it.:p
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
WOOT! Mario finally has a good triple Jump! Mario players rejoice!

Christ. These quote wars make me feel like an outsider...

Dedede would never work as a Kirby clone. He shares the ability to blow up and fly by copying and training to be like Kirby in that sense, and he sucks up enemies, but he shoots them across the screen instead of stealing their abilities. That is where the similarities end. Everything else is pretty different. All his As would use the hammer, he's much larger and heavier, he can attack while blown up like a balloon too, unlike Kirby. He simply could not be a Kirby clone because Kirby's attacks are way too weak-ranged and his Bs are all unlike Dedede except for the sucking, which is not the same as Dedede's. I think it's safe to say as well that as Dedede is the most popular choice for 'Brawl he'll be one of the first to be designed, it's likely also that they'll go the extra mile with him to make him different because of his popularity, and Sakurai's liking for him (obviously).

So... Mmm... Yeah, Dedede could not be a Kirby clone.
Sorry about the long quotes SD. Don't feel obligated to read them, but I felt that Jaohnknight1 and Mendez had some points worth responding to.

As for Dedede, I still think a cloned moveset would work for him. As you mentioned, his sucking and jumping abilities are already pretty similar and his hammer could work just like Kirby's - as a B attack and a mid air attack. All his other attacks could simply be Luigified variations of Kirby's. Personally, I could see it working either way, but I'm leaning towards the clone possibility because it would free up valuable development time.

I think the fact that he is Sakurai's own creation means that he'll probably try to make DeDeDe as unique as possible. There are some similarities between Kirby and DeDeDe, but I feel he'll keep these to a minimal. As Smash Daddy pointed out, DeDeDe is probably one of the first characters he would've worked on.

I think I understand why Wiseguy put DeDeDE as a clone, I just feel Sakurai would try to avoid that happening at almost all costs.
If Sakurai feels strongly enough about it that he wants his creation to be a non-clone, I'm all for it. However, it's worth noting that the man is anything but self serving. Inspite of the fact that Dedede was one of the most requested characters for Melee, he chose to include other people's creations over his own. Again, I'm not opposed to an original moveset for Dx3, I just think a clone is a bit more likely.

Those wire frames were just reshaped, though; their bodies are largely the same just different in size or slight warped. King Dedede has almost a completely different body from Kirby; it's like comparing Donkey Kong to Diddy Kong. If Mr. Sakurai's willing to sacrifice King Dedede of all characters to clonedom then he could very well choose to have Bowser Jr., Lucario, Deoxys, Krystal, and Diddy Kong made into clones.

Two semi-coloned sentences in a row...that can't be good grammar...

Also, what Smash Daddy said.
While giving a different shaped character hasn't been done in the past, I assume is is within the relm of the possible. To be fair, Dx3 and Kirby do share some of the same abilities - so your other comaprisons are more far fetched.

And seriously, are clones really that bad? Doc, Young Link, Ganondorf, Luigi, Falco and roy are all solid and popular characters. The same could be true for the clones in Brawl.

Marth is much more important than Micaiah. You argued for the original Zelda, but the original FE character is out of the question? Micaiah plays second seat to Ike, while Marth stars in two FE games. The very first lord should be included because there where games FE games before the international ones. And why should the Black Knight get into brawl. We don't have enough character slots to include villans from FE. Including the First and Last FE lords would be the best choice. And before you say anything about Marth and Ike looking too similar I'll give you some pics.

http://fireemblem.shinranet.com/feova/grupo2.jpg
http://otaku1990.ot.funpic.de/wb/media/retro v/ssbbroster_ike.jpg or if you want to use GoD Ike http://media.wii.ign.com/articles/784/784085/img_4503711.html

It doesn't matter that there are new games, the old games still exist and Marth is still the character everyone thinks of when they hear Fire Emblem. He is the face of the franchise and is already established worldwide (thanks to his inclusion in melee) as THE FIRE EMBLEM guy. The Black Knight's not even that fun to fight in PoR (Ike is broken). You don't even need Aether if you attack every single turn and just have Mist deal with the healers that come to help him. Heck, you didn't even have to fight him, you could just run away and get Ena (who is statistically better than Nasir).
I knew Marth's assasins would find me eventually...

1) Marth less important than Miciaiah? Arguably, yes. After all, the majority FE fans can't buy Marth's games - so he lacks the relevance to be the FE rep in my view. At any rate, Ike is the one who could replace him, Miciaiah would replace Roy as the main Lord in the upcoming FE.

2) I don't adocate the original Zelda. I expect the Zelda from the most recent game, Twilight Princess, to replace her. Just like I expect the lord from the last two FE games, Ike, to replace Marth.

3) Yes we have exactly enough slots for the main villlain from the FE franchise to appear in Brawl. One for Ike and one for BK.

4) While GoD Ike is a bit more different from marth than his PoR version, they still seem a bit too similar (Capes? Big swords? Blue hair?) to represent the diversity of the average FE game in my opinion. Far better to have the Black Knight (if a clone needs to be added) or Miciaiah (who would be a far more unique character) as both of them would contrast Ike nicely.

5) The old games still exist - inside Japan. Everywhere else, they never existed in the first place.

6) Marth and Roy were both equally the face of FE before Fire GBA was realeased internationally - but they could have literally put anyone in the series in their place, as far as western gamers were concerned. Now, FE fans around the world think of characters like Ike and Ephriam when they think of FE. As the lord in the only FE game popular world wide, Ike is best suited to be the new FE rep.

7)I actually found BK to be a challenging boss because I focused on leveling up my other characters instead. In any case, he plays a crucial part in the story (as Ike's main nemesis)and is returning in GoD. Therefore, he is the character most deserving of being Ike's clone.

Personally, I'd go for the GoD Ike.

But yeah, believe me plenty of, people have tried to convince Wiseguy that Marth should return, but he's pretty stubborn about it.:p
The way I see, we could either get the PoR Ike with BK as his clone or the GoD Ike with Miciaiah riding shotgun.

I may seem a bit stuborn in my views Sonic Wave, but that's just because I'm passionate about the FE series and Brawl. I do enjoy a good debate, so anyone is free to point out why they disagree. Believe it or not, I have been known to change my mind if the argument is persuasive enough.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
Just because we can't buy his games you say he's unimportant? He was the one who started it all, and he was even popular enough to make a second starring appearence.

You want to represent FE as a whole and yet you suggest two characters from the same game? One of them isn't even a Lord. Why is the Black Knight more deserving than Marth?

If you take away Marth you take away the style of the elegant swordsman that is so unique in melee. Ike will never be able to replace Marth because he'll have a much different playstyle. It's not about having a sword, it's about the sword flowing from one move to the next in a sort of dance. The elegant swordsman uses the sword as an extention of his arm, and uses a thin, light, sword. Ike uses a rather large sword that is bordering on being a broadsword. He just wouldn't be able to fill Marth's role.

Now about their appearence. The Black Knight has a cape and you don't mind him. Ike's cape is red and Marth's cape is blue, see the difference. Ike's sword is wide and heavy, Marth's sword is long and thin. Ike's hair is spikey and slicked back while Marth's is soft and tilted to his right side. Ike's face is rough and pointed while Marth's face is more like a child's. Ike wears leather armor while Marth wears silk and a chestplate.
 
Top Bottom