ZSS matchup woes

[shlemon]

D3 seems hopelessly outmatched by ZSS. Her paralyzer and tether grab make approaching/defending on the ground near impossible. Her fast and powerful aerials make air approaches tough. Her fast projectiles and ground attacks make gordo pressure dangerous. What options do we have?

I've had some success staying a sort distance away diagonally, trying to bait out attacks I can punish with nair or bair. But against a good player baiting will only ever get you so far. Plus, you have to land eventually. We might have a small advantage offstage, but getting her there isn't easy. Honestly, this MU seems a minimum of D3 30:70 ZSS.

Thoughts?

 

[Bazzeltroff]

I agree! I am also pretty sure that ZSS's Up-B is pretty much guaranteed to get the sweet spot if comboed into! Life is hard when you're so big...

 

[Fluggerson]

First of all, this is a mini rant thread.

I started hating on DDD a few days and got even more pissed today. A few hours ago I was playing as zero suit and was against a DDD. Thankfully, he wasn't a spammer (kinda) and I was racking lots of damage on him. I kept trying to KO him and it wouldn't work at all. I got him to 210% and i couldn't kill him. Meanwhile, i was at 39% and i was getting hit by him and he KOed me at 60%. That is absolute bull. I got him to 200% and he wouldn't die, but i died at 60? I was fine with him in Brawl, and didn't care much about his recovery since I could kill him easily, but now its a problem. Every time he would be close to dying, but he wouldn't die because of his recovery. Why was he buffed so much? I can't kill him at all anymore. Also, his new projectile does ****ing 20%? What the hell? AND IT KOs? I had people spamming it and i would hit it back but i would end up getting hit too as i sent it back. Also extremely more mad due to the fact that when i rush him and he's about to pull his projectile, it still comes out after i hit him.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THIS ******? I'm not gonna play new characters just to counter him. I play Rosalina and ZSS. Before any of you say "just use gravitational pull with Rosie" It comes out too fast when i rush him and its too late for me to use it. "just make luma take the damage!" i dont have it 24/7. "just dodge it!" I do, but I still get hit by it once and a while.

Also, whenever i would go for a ko he would always shield grab me and i cant aerial him either because he would always avoid my grabs and dodge well

 

[ぱみゅ]

There you have it, ZSS can outcamp DDD, if he's forced to approach not even Gordos can help him an awful lot.

 

[Fluggerson]

There you have it, ZSS can outcamp DDD, if he's forced to approach not even Gordos can help him an awful lot.

thx

 

[Jabejazz]

First of all, this is a mini rant thread.

I started hating on DDD a few days and got even more pissed today. A few hours ago I was playing as zero suit and was against a DDD. Thankfully, he wasn't a spammer (kinda) and I was racking lots of damage on him. I kept trying to KO him and it wouldn't work at all. I got him to 210% and i couldn't kill him. Meanwhile, i was at 39% and i was getting hit by him and he KOed me at 60%. That is absolute bull. I got him to 200% and he wouldn't die, but i died at 60? I was fine with him in Brawl, and didn't care much about his recovery since I could kill him easily, but now its a problem. Every time he would be close to dying, but he wouldn't die because of his recovery. Why was he buffed so much? I can't kill him at all anymore. Also, his new projectile does ****ing 20%? What the hell? AND IT KOs? I had people spamming it and i would hit it back but i would end up getting hit too as i sent it back. Also extremely more mad due to the fact that when i rush him and he's about to pull his projectile, it still comes out after i hit him.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THIS ****ER? I'm not gonna play new characters just to counter him. I play Rosalina and ZSS. Before any of you say "just use gravitational pull with Rosie" It comes out too fast when i rush him and its too late for me to use it. "just make luma take the damage!" i dont have it 24/7. "just dodge it!" I do, but I still get hit by it once and a while.

Also, whenever i would go for a ko he would always shield grab me and i cant aerial him either because he would always avoid my grabs and dodge well

What is this? A rant for ants?

DDD/ZSS +3 Confirmed. Everybody go home.

 

[shlemon]

Seriously though zss can just stand mid stage and spam paralyzer, forcing you to approach - and thats where it gets ugly. Has anyone worked out some approaching strats?

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Playing large characters against ZSS in general isn't fun, and D3 is no exception.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

The projectile spam + ground base bull is annoying, yes, but even if you read them or put them in a disadvantaged spot, there's no safe way to punish roll spam. ZSS's roll is pretty broken. There is barely any perceptible lag to it and you can just start combo-ing before the roll animation finishes. I'm accustomed to being able to down smash a roller on a hard read but her roll is so forgiving that it's very unsafe. There's also little you can do to maintain an advantageous position if they roll spam to the opposite side of the platform to spam their laser. Her aerial B jump and fast regular jump give her superior air mobility and priority to a fat target like DDD. However, I would say ground game is more evenly matched. You can get creative with bouncing Gordos to avoid laser paths and keep safe by being the max distance from the laser. Down tilt is one the few things fast enough to catch them, but usually becomes stale quick. Inhale is pretty good as a negation and spacing tactic. ZSS is somewhat vulnerable in the offstage but still maintains greater mobility by far.

 

[Jabejazz]

There's also little you can do to maintain an advantageous position if they roll spam to the opposite side of the platform to spam their laser. Her aerial B jump and fast regular jump give her superior air mobility and priority to a fat target like DDD.

If you know they'll roll spam from on edge to another, it's super easy to grab them out of one.
Good ZSS won't do that, just wanted to point it out.

I also agree you can't compete in the air against her.

Truth be told, we can't compete against most in the air.

 

[iiGGYxD]

The zss mu is pretty rough. To deal with the zss that sit back and spam nuetral b, I usually run in and shield the first shot and when I'm close enough, roll behind them and grab or dsmash. This will deal with those that literally just sit there and nuetral b at you over and over. So far this has been my best option for approach>_>> ofc once the zamus catches on you can go back to throwing in gordos to mix it up.